Ten years ago, Wayne Pacelle, head of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy, made a disruptive case in “The Humane Economy: How Innovators and Enlightened Consumers Are Transforming the Lives of Animals.” He argued that the biggest gains for animals would come not just from laws, but from the marketplace—through corporate pressure, consumer demand, and economic incentives.

Today, that vision is being tested in a far more adversarial landscape.

In this episode, host Joseph Grove speaks with Pacelle about the state of the “humane economy” amid intensifying political and corporate pushback. While companies have made high-profile commitments on cage-free systems and alternatives to animal testing, powerful industry interests are now working to unwind those gains.

At the center of the fight: federal efforts to override state laws like California’s Prop 12 and Massachusetts’ Question 3—voter-approved measures designed to curb extreme confinement of farm animals. These battles raise a critical question: can market-driven progress endure when political forces intervene to reverse it?

They discuss:

Pacelle also addresses a central tension: if the humane economy is working, why are we seeing such aggressive efforts to dismantle its gains?

This is a candid, high-stakes conversation about power, policy, and the future of animal protection in an era of competing economic interests.

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove.

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

What if the idea that humans stand above all other animals isn’t a scientific truth—but a cultural myth?

In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove is joined by primatologist and NYU professor Christine Webb, author of “The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters,” for a wide-ranging conversation about how deeply ingrained beliefs about human superiority shape our relationship with animals—and the consequences of getting that relationship wrong.

Drawing on her research into the cognitive, emotional, and social lives of nonhuman animals, Webb challenges the notion that humans are categorically different from other species. Instead, she makes the case for “continuity”—the idea that differences between humans and other animals are differences of degree, not kind.

Together, they explore:

If we are to build a more humane and sustainable future, it may begin with a simple but profound shift: seeing ourselves not above the animal world, but within it.

LEARN MORE

The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters is available for purchase here and wherever books are sold. To learn more about Christine Webb, visit her website here.

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ

Military working dogs are among the most highly trained and loyal members of America’s armed forces. They detect explosives, patrol bases, and protect U.S. service members in some of the world’s most dangerous environments. Their work saves lives.

But what happens when these animals, who serve alongside our troops, are failed by the very system responsible for their care?

In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines troubling findings from a new investigation by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy, raising serious concerns about lapses in veterinary care, oversight failures, and reports of preventable suffering and deaths among military working dogs on U.S. bases.

Joseph is joined by two leading experts who bring a critical perspective to this issue:

Dr. Thomas Pool, a veterinarian and former commander of the U.S. Army Veterinary Command, draws on decades of experience to explain the role of military working dogs, the standards of care they require, and where systemic breakdowns may be occurring within military veterinary systems.

Kate Chupka Schultz, an experienced animal cruelty prosecutor and attorney, provides a legal lens — examining accountability gaps, the evolving status of military working dogs under the law, and what reforms may be necessary to ensure these animals are treated as sentient partners, not expendable equipment.

Together, they explore urgent questions about responsibility, transparency, and reform — and what it means to honor the service of animals who serve in uniform.

To learn more, read the full report and press release at Helping Animals Helps Us All.

ABOUT

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

In this episode of The Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines the rapidly changing landscape of American horse racing—an industry facing growing scrutiny over safety, doping, and the welfare of racehorses. A series of high-profile breakdowns and medication scandals, including the troubling spike in horse deaths at Churchill Downs during the 2023 Kentucky Derby week, intensified national concern about the sport’s oversight and long-term viability.

Joseph explores how the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act (HISA) — the most sweeping regulatory reform the sport has seen in generations — created a national authority to enforce uniform safety and anti-doping rules across Thoroughbred racing. But major tensions remain. A high-stakes dispute between regulators and Churchill Downs Incorporated, a company operating roughly 30 racing and gaming properties across 14 states, raises questions about compliance, enforcement, and the future of interstate wagering.

Joining the program is Fred Hudson, CEO of the U.S. Harness Racing Alumni Association and director of equine protection for Animal Wellness Action. Hudson provides an insider’s perspective on whether HISA’s reforms are improving horse welfare, the persistent challenges facing the sport, and what additional protections are still needed for racehorses during and after their racing careers.

Together, they discuss the causes of fatal breakdowns, the culture of medication in racing, the implications of industry resistance to federal oversight, and what meaningful reform could look like over the next decade.

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines the mounting scientific and policy concerns surrounding lead ammunition — a persistent environmental toxin with consequences that extend far beyond the hunt.

Each year, tons of lead from spent bullets and shotgun pellets are discharged into America’s landscapes. On impact, that lead fragments into carcasses and gut piles, where scavenging wildlife — including bald eagles, golden eagles, condors, hawks, ravens, and foxes — ingest toxic shards. The results are often acute poisoning, neurological impairment, reproductive failure, and death.

But this is not solely a wildlife conservation issue. Lead is a potent neurotoxin with no safe level of exposure. It does not biodegrade, and it can contaminate meat intended for human consumption while persisting in soil and ecosystems for decades.

Joseph is joined by two leading voices at the intersection of science and policy.

Wayne Pacelle, president of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy, discusses the documented toll of lead poisoning on raptors and other wildlife, federal policy debates surrounding National Wildlife Refuges, and the proposed LEAD Act — legislation aimed at reducing toxic ammunition on public lands.

Dr. Aisha S. Dickerson, Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, brings critical scientific insight into how lead behaves biologically, why even low-level exposure can cause lasting neurological harm, and what environmental neuroepidemiology tells us about risks to both wildlife and humans.

Together, they explore:

This episode challenges listeners to consider tradition, science, and stewardship — and the responsibility we share in protecting both wildlife and public health.

TAKE ACTION

Go here to learn more about the effects of lead ammunition and to support the LEAD Act referred to in the show.

ABOUT

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

Dogfighting is often misunderstood as a relic of the past — or as a cruelty confined to the margins of society. In reality, organized fighting networks continue to operate across the United States, leaving behind a pipeline of animals who are brutalized, discarded, and in urgent need of highly specialized care.

In this episode of The Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines the continuum between federal policy and frontline rescue work — and why both are essential to ending organized animal cruelty.

He is joined by Rochelle Steffen, founder of Mac’s Mission, a Missouri-based nonprofit rescue whose work “specializes in special.” Her organization focuses on dogs in severe medical crisis: neonatal puppies with congenital defects, survivors of extreme abuse, and animals whose injuries or conditions place them beyond the capacity of traditional shelters.

The conversation also explores the policy dimension of this work, including Animal Wellness Action’s advocacy for the FIGHT Act — federal legislation designed to strengthen enforcement against dogfighting, increase penalties, and disrupt trafficking of fighting paraphernalia.

Listeners will come away with a deeper understanding of:

Listeners may learn more at Animal Wellness Action and by visiting Mac’s Mission online.

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove.

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

Why do we love some animals as family while treating others as commodities?

In this episode of The Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove is joined by Melanie Joy, Ph.D. — Harvard-educated psychologist, international speaker, and author of the landmark book, “Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows.”

Dr. Joy introduces and explores the concept of carnism — the largely invisible belief system that conditions people to eat certain animals while caring deeply for others. Drawing on psychology, sociology, and ethics, she examines how cultural norms shape perception, why systems of animal exploitation often go unquestioned, and why even compassionate people may participate in practices they would otherwise reject.

The conversation also reflects the perspective of Animal Wellness Action: an acknowledgment that many people eat animals, paired with a firm ethical insistence that animals raised for food deserve lives free from needless suffering. If there must be a “bad day,” it should be only one day — not a lifetime of cruelty, confinement, or neglect.

Together, Grove and Joy discuss moral dissonance, defensiveness, and how advocates can speak about animals in ways that invite reflection rather than resistance — offering listeners a thoughtful, humane framework for understanding both animal suffering and the belief systems that sustain it.

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

Despite the closure of U.S. horse slaughter plants nearly two decades ago, tens of thousands of American horses are still exported every year to Canada and Mexico for slaughter. The practice persists quietly, fueled by policy loopholes, weak enforcement, and public misunderstanding—while horses who once served as companions, athletes, and working partners pay the price.

In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, we’re joined by Thalia Fischer, founder and director of All Seated in a Barn, a California-based equine rescue dedicated to pulling horses from the slaughter pipeline and giving them a second chance through rescue, rehabilitation, training, and adoption.

We’re also joined by Wayne Pacelle, president of Animal Wellness Action, who brings a national policy perspective to the conversation—explaining why Congress has repeatedly failed to halt live exports of horses for slaughter and what it will take to finally close that loophole through legislation like the SAFE Act.

Together, Thalia and Wayne connect the dots between what happens at auctions and kill pens, the grueling cross-border transport of horses, and the political choices that allow this trade to continue. This episode explores the emotional realities of horse rescue, the scale of the slaughter crisis, and the concrete actions listeners can take to help protect America’s horses.

Topics covered include:

If you care about horses—and about aligning U.S. law with our values—this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Learn More and Take Action

Go here to read our thorough report on the state of horse slaughter, “Horse Slaughter in North America: U.S. Live Exports Fade as Foreign Demand Abates,”  and go here to tell your elected officials you want to end the slaughter pipeline.

About the Show

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

What if we could produce real meat—without animals?

For decades, the animal-welfare movement has worked to reduce suffering by changing laws, corporate practices, and consumer behavior. Those efforts have delivered meaningful progress. And yet, billions of animals are still raised and killed each year for food.

That reality raises an urgent question—one that would have sounded like science fiction not long ago: Can we fundamentally change how meat is made?

On this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove sits down with Paul Shapiro, a leading voice at the intersection of animal welfare, food innovation, and climate policy. Paul is the author of the national bestseller Clean Meat, which helped introduce and popularize the concept of growing real meat directly from animal cells—eliminating the need for factory farming altogether. In addition, we’re joined by Wayne Pacelle, who is a previous of colleague of Paul and the president of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy.

In this conversation, we explore:

This episode goes beyond hype or fear-based narratives to ask deeper questions about ethics, innovation, and what real progress for animals might look like in the decades ahead.

About the Guest

Paul Shapiro is the CEO of The Better Meat Co., the author of “Clean Meat: How Growing Meat Without Animals Will Revolutionize Dinner and the World,” a five-time TEDx speaker, and the host of the Business for Good Podcast. He has been recognized as a Most Admired CEO by the Sacramento Business Journal.

About the Show

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 

In early 2024, a video emerged from western Wyoming showing a wolf being chased down by a snowmobile, brought into a bar, tormented, and killed. The man at the center of the video, Cody Roberts, has since been criminally charged and pleaded not guilty—turning a viral act of cruelty into a legal test of Wyoming’s animal protection laws.

In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, we examine where that case stands now—and what it reveals about Wyoming’s broader relationship with wolves.

Our guest is Mark Heinz, outdoors and wildlife reporter for Cowboy State Daily, who has covered wolves, grizzlies, and wildlife conflict across the Mountain West for decades. Drawing on on-the-ground reporting, Mark discusses community reaction in Daniel and Sublette County, the legal and cultural forces shaping the prosecution, and why wolves remain one of the most polarizing animals in the American West.

We also explore whether the Cody Roberts case marks a turning point—or simply another chapter in a long-running conflict over fear, cruelty, and coexistence.

The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 

www.animalwellnessaction.org

www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/