In this episode, we continue our conversation with Altamush Saeed, an interspecies justice lawyer, educator, and nonprofit leader exploring how Pakistan prepares for and responds to crises. Altamush challenges the idea of ‘natural’ disasters, arguing they’re human-driven failures of planning and policy, especially for more-than-just-human animals who are too often left out.

From live flood-response and emergency veterinary aid to courtroom advocacy, Altamush shows what it looks like to centre animals, people, and the environment together.He reflects on how trauma, climate change, and compassion intersect, and why “One Health” must evolve into One Health and animal-inclusive social justice so the balance doesn’t default to humans alone.

Drawing on Islamic principles of mercy and stewardship, he connects factory farming to climate risk, public health, and environmental injustice, and explains how training Imams to address animals and the environment in Friday sermons is catalysing grassroots change across communities.

Along the way, Altamush discusses his ongoing case concerning a Himalayan brown bear named Hope; efforts to add animals to disaster law and policy, and movement-building through education: from animal and environmental law to food-systems teaching that links what we eat to climate resilience. This is a powerful conversation about preparedness, prevention, and reimagining justice so every species has a place in our future.

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@TheAnthrozoopod⁠⁠⁠⁠

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To access audio versions and podcast references, please our official Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod⁠⁠⁠⁠

Podlet Guest

Name: Altamush Saeed LLMemail: [email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

Environmental and Animal Rights Consultants Pakistan.

https://www.facebook.com/EARCPAK?mibextid=ZbWKwL

https://www.instagram.com/earcpakistan?igsh=dzRveXBncTc4NDR1

https://www.linkedin.com/company/environmental-and-animal-rights-consultants-llp-pakistan/

https://www.facebook.com/share/1AraUrqBw1/

https://x.com/AltamushSaeedhttps://www.instagram.com/altamushsaeedhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/altamushsaeed95

Show Notes, References and resources found here : https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod/46-interspecies-justice-i

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.internationalelephants.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.kissingsharks.com/⁠⁠

In this episode, we sit down with Altamush Saeed, an interspecies justice lawyer, educator, and nonprofit leader who is reshaping how Pakistan thinks about animals, people, and the environment. From being rescued by a cat named Mau, to leading community dog feeding campaigns during COVID, to organising large-scale rescues during Pakistan’s 2022 floods, Altamush’s story shows how deeply human and animal lives are intertwined in times of crisis.He reflects on how trauma, climate change, and compassion intersect, and why he believes food systems, human rights, and animal rights must be understood together. Drawing on his faith, Altamush explains why factory farming is impermissible under Islamic principles of mercy and stewardship, and shares how training Imams to deliver Friday sermons on animals and the environment is sparking grassroots change across communities.Along the way, he discusses founding Pakistan’s first disaster-zone farm animal shelter, creating the country’s first Animal Law course, and building a broader vision of interspecies justice that moves beyond cats and dogs to include all beings. This is a powerful conversation about resilience, responsibility, and reimagining justice for a more compassionate future.

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on X: ⁠⁠⁠@TheAnthrozoopod⁠⁠⁠

Follow us on Facebook:  ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/⁠⁠⁠ 

Follow us on TikTok⁠⁠⁠ @anthrozoology_⁠⁠⁠

To access audio versions and podcast references, please our official Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod⁠⁠⁠

Podlet Guest

Name: Altamush Saeed LLMemail: ⁠[email protected]⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠[email protected]⁠Environmental and Animal Rights Consultants Pakistan.⁠https://www.facebook.com/EARCPAK?mibextid=ZbWKwL⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/earcpakistan?igsh=dzRveXBncTc4NDR1⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/environmental-and-animal-rights-consultants-llp-pakistan/⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/share/1AraUrqBw1/⁠⁠https://x.com/AltamushSaeed⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/altamushsaeed⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/altamushsaeed95⁠

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

⁠⁠⁠⁠https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠www.internationalelephants.org⁠⁠⁠⁠

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠www.kissingsharks.com/⁠⁠

In this follow‑up episode, veterinary surgeon Dr Elizabeth Ormerod BVMS, Chair of the Society for Companion Animal Studies (SCAS), returns to explore two additional pillars of her four‑decade career: campaigning for companion-animal‑inclusive housing and creating one of the UK’s first companion-animal‑loss support programmes within general practice.Dr Ormerod explains how grass‑roots advocacy in Fleetwood challenged local “no‑pets” policies and sparked a wider conversation about companion animals in social housing, eventually leading to national debate. We also look at her bond‑centred approach to end‑of‑life care, growth charts, early behaviour counselling, and multidisciplinary bereavement teams designed to support both clients and veterinary staff.Along the way Dr Ormerod discusses strategies for preventing compassion fatigue, the importance of community networks, and why affordable, flexible payment schemes remain crucial as corporate vet ownership expands.

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on X: ⁠⁠@TheAnthrozoopod⁠⁠

Follow us on Facebook:  ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/⁠⁠ 

Follow us on TikTok⁠⁠ @anthrozoology_⁠⁠

To access audio versions please our official Website: ⁠⁠https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod⁠⁠

Podlet Guest

Dr Elizabeth Ormerod

⁠https://www.scas.org.uk/about/governance-and-staff/elizabeth-ormerod/⁠

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠ 

⁠⁠⁠https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/⁠⁠⁠

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠

⁠⁠⁠www.internationalelephants.org⁠⁠⁠

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠[email protected]⁠

⁠⁠⁠www.kissingsharks.com/⁠⁠

In this episode, we speak with Dr Elizabeth Ormerod BVMS, veterinary surgeon and chair of the Society for Companion Animal Studies (SCAS). Dr Ormerod discusses her long-standing work integrating veterinary practice with social care, animal welfare education, and community-based programs.

Liz outlines her development of animal-assisted services across education, healthcare, and prison settings, and reflects on efforts to promote pet-inclusive housing in the UK, along with the systemic and cultural barriers that often make this difficult.

Drawing on her experience running a practice in Fleetwood, she explains how bond-centred veterinary models can support both animal welfare and client wellbeing, particularly in communities facing social or economic challenges.

We also discuss the practical realities of veterinary outreach in underserved areas, as well as the financial pressures many clients face. Dr Ormerod describes her use of pro bono work and flexible payment strategies to ensure animals receive necessary care, and reflects on how the rise of corporate veterinary models may affect affordability and access.

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on X: ⁠@TheAnthrozoopod⁠

Follow us on Facebook:  ⁠https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/⁠ 

Follow us on TikTok⁠ @anthrozoology_⁠

To access audio versions please our official Website: ⁠https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod⁠

Podlet Guest

Dr Elizabeth Ormerod

https://www.scas.org.uk/about/governance-and-staff/elizabeth-ormerod/

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠ 

⁠⁠https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/⁠⁠

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

⁠⁠[email protected]

⁠⁠www.internationalelephants.org⁠⁠

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected]

⁠⁠www.kissingsharks.com/⁠⁠

References

Howell T. et al. Defining Terms Used for Animals Working inSupport Roles for People with Support NeedsAnimals 2022, 12(15),1975; ⁠https://doi.org/10.3390/ani12151975⁠

Jegatheesan B., Enders-Slegers MJ, Ormerod E., Boyden P.Understanding the Link between Animal Cruelty and FamilyViolence: The Bioecological Systems Model. InternationalJournal of Environmental Research and Public Health 2020

Ormerod E. Supporting older people with pets in shelteredhousing. In Practice · March 2012 DOI: 10.1136/inp.e1041Ormerod E. The role of pets in institutions -child developmentand animals in schools THE FECAVA SYMPOSIUM 2012Companion Journal

Ormerod, E.J. Bond-centered veterinary practice: Lessons forveterinary faculty and students. J. Vet. Med. Educ. 2008, 35,545–551. [CrossRef] [PubMed]

Ormerod E. Companion animals and offender rehabilitation-experiences from a therapeutic community in Scotland. Journalof Therapeutic Communities 2008

Ormerod E. Companion Animals. Working with Older PeopleSeptember 2005 Volume 9 Issue 3

Ormerod E. Animal Companions: planning and implementing aprogramme. Working with Older People December 2005Volume 9 Issue 4

Foster S, Whyham, M., Ormerod E., Edney A. Therapeuticapplications of the human-companion animal bond.  TheVeterinary record · December 2005 DOI:10.1136/vr.157.22.689 · Source: PubMed

Ep 42 - More-Than-Human Worlding: Analysis and Exploration of Farm Animal Sanctuaries, World-Building and Speculative Design, with Dr Madi Mañetto Quick, Part 2.

In episode 42 of the Anthrozoology Podcast we join Dr. Madi Mañetto Quick, for the second part of a discussion on her PhD research which explored the narratives of farmed animals, focusing on farms and sanctuaries. In this episode Madi discusses her PhD research on speculative design in the context of farm animal sanctuaries and farms. She explained her use of a speculative co-design workshop that included humans, animals, and land, aiming to equalise beings in sanctuaries or farms. Despite not conducting pilot workshops, she explored imaginative scenarios with her supervisors. Her work emphasises multi-species design, highlighting human-animal relationships and the impact of design on non-human animals. She also touched on the challenges of captive freedom in sanctuaries and the complexities of balancing animal freedom with human convenience. Future aspirations include collaborative research in anthrozoology.

Podlet Guest

Dr Madi Mañetto Quick

⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

⁠⁠https://orcid.org/0009-0004-9859-0682⁠

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on X: ⁠@TheAnthrozoopod⁠

Follow us on Facebook:  ⁠https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/⁠ 

Follow us on TikTok⁠ @anthrozoology_⁠

To access audio versions please our official Website: ⁠https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod⁠

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠[email protected]⁠ 

⁠https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/⁠

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

⁠[email protected]⁠

⁠www.internationalelephants.org⁠

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

⁠[email protected]⁠ ​

⁠www.kissingsharks.com/⁠

References:

Donna J. Haraway, 2016, Staying with the Trouble: Making Kin in the Chthulucene.Elan Abrell, 2016, Saving Animals: Multispecies Ecologies of Rescue & Care.Anthony Dunne & Fiona Raby, 2013, Speculative Everything: Design, Fiction, and Social Dreaming.

Mañetto Quick, M. (2024). Worlding Sanctuary: Multispecies design ethnography on a farm animal sanctuary in Aotearoa. Ethnographic Edge, 7(1), 5-20. ⁠https://doi.org/10.24135/ee.v7i1.271⁠

Mañetto Quick, M., Caudwell, C., & Horrocks, D. (2024). Land/Scape Portrayals in Farm and Farm Animal Sanctuary Memoirs. M/C Journal, 27(5). ⁠https://doi.org/10.5204/mcj.3090⁠ (Original work published October 13, 2024)

More-Than-Human Worlding: Analysis and Exploration of Farm Animal Sanctuaries, World-Building and Speculative Design, with Dr Madi Mañetto Quick, Part 1.

In episode 41 of the Anthrozoology Podcast we join Dr. Madi Mañetto Quick , for part one of two on a discussion on her PhD research which explored the narratives of farmed animals, focusing on farms and sanctuaries. In this episode Madi discusses how she explored the interpretive framework of equalising human and non-human characters in stories. Madi emphasises a non-black-and-white approach and “stays with the trouble” in conversations around vegetarianism, veganism and livestock farming. She introduced the concept of "necro care," where killing animals is seen as an act of care in sanctuaries. Madi also highlighted the importance of including global perspectives and visual analysis in future research. Her thematic analysis revealed themes on land depiction, killing methods, and individual vs. mass animal portrayals.

Podlet Guest

Dr Madi Mañetto Quick

⁠[email protected]⁠

⁠https://orcid.org/0009-0004-9859-0682

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on X: @TheAnthrozoopod

Follow us on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/ 

Follow us on TikTok @anthrozoology_

To access audio versions please our official Website: https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected] 

https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

[email protected]

www.internationalelephants.org

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected] ​

www.kissingsharks.com/

References:

Donna J. Haraway, 2016, Staying with the Trouble: Making Kin in the Chthulucene.Elan Abrell, 2016, Saving Animals: Multispecies Ecologies of Rescue & Care.Anthony Dunne & Fiona Raby, 2013, Speculative Everything: Design, Fiction, and Social Dreaming.

Mañetto Quick, M. (2024). Worlding Sanctuary: Multispecies design ethnography on a farm animal sanctuary in Aotearoa. Ethnographic Edge, 7(1), 5-20. https://doi.org/10.24135/ee.v7i1.271

Mañetto Quick, M., Caudwell, C., & Horrocks, D. (2024). Land/Scape Portrayals in Farm and Farm Animal Sanctuary Memoirs. M/C Journal, 27(5). https://doi.org/10.5204/mcj.3090 (Original work published October 13, 2024)

In episode 40 of the Anthrozoology Podcast we continue our conversation with, Dr. Irina Frazin discusses the challenges faced by NGOs in Romania, including difficulties in building trust and networks, and the complexities of legal obligations for cat microchipping and the issue of ear tipping for sterilised cats. Irina shares her experience with a severely injured cat who transforms from a non-social cat to a loving companion. She also addresses the problem of community cat abandonment and the need for better support networks for companion animal guardians. The conversation touches on the historical association of cats with the feminine and the evolution of the "crazy cat lady" trope.

Follow us on Twitter: @TheAnthrozoopod

Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/

Follow us on TikTok @anthrozoology_

To access audio versions please our official Website: ⁠https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod⁠

PodCrew

Dr.Kris Hill

⁠https://academiccatlady.com/ ⁠

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski [email protected] www.internationalelephants.org@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected] ​

⁠www.kissingsharks.com/⁠

Podlet Guest

Dr Irina Frasin

[email protected]

⁠https://anthrozoology.acadiasi.org/en/home/⁠

References

Frasin, I “Of Cats and Women: A Cultural History of a Relationship” in Anthrozoology Studies: Animal Life and Human Culture, I. Frasin, G. Bodi, S. Bulei, C. Dinu Vasiliu, Eds. (Presa Universitară Clujeană, Cluj-Napoca, Romania, 2022), pp. 158–182.

In episode 39 of the Anthrozoology Podcast we join Dr. Irina Frazin, for part one of two on a discussion on Romanian Feline Lives. Irina is a researcher at the Institute of Social and Economic Research, who discusses her journey from classical studies to anthrozoology, sparked by adopting her cat Bubus 15 years ago. Irina highlights the challenges of translating human-animal studies terminology into Romanian and the success of the Anthrozoology Symposium, which initially attracted more international than local participants. Irina also details her efforts to establish an anthrozoology course at the University of Iasi, despite several challenges, and emphasises the importance of fostering programs for cats in Romanian shelters. She notes the need for better education and collaboration among NGOs to improve animal welfare.

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

Follow us on Twitter: @TheAnthrozoopod

Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/

Follow us on TikTok @anthrozoology_

To access audio versions please our official Website: https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod

PodCrew

Dr.Kris Hill

https://academiccatlady.com/

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski [email protected] www.internationalelephants.org@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney

PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected] ​

www.kissingsharks.com/

Podlet Guest

Dr Irina Frasin

[email protected]

https://anthrozoology.acadiasi.org/en/home/

References

Frasin, I “Of Cats and Women: A Cultural History of a Relationship” in Anthrozoology Studies: Animal Life and Human Culture, I. Frasin, G. Bodi, S. Bulei, C. Dinu Vasiliu, Eds. (Presa Universitară Clujeană, Cluj-Napoca, Romania, 2022), pp. 158–182.

Welcome to Episode 38 of the Anthrozoology Podcast. In this episode, we continue exploring Alisa Rubinstien’s research on the intersection of humans, companion-animals and fat. Alisa is the AIP2023/AASA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEmj7S9A0fY&t=2020s) Pre-PhD Presentation Award winner for her work titled “Fattening” One Health: An Interspecies Approach to Dismantling the “Obesity Epidemic.”

Welcome to Episode 37 of the Anthrozoology Podcast. In this episode, we explore Alisa Rubinstien’s research on the intersection of humans, companion-animals and fat. Alisa is the AIP2023/AASA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEmj7S9A0fY&t=2020s) Pre-PhD Presentation Award winner for her work titled “Fattening” One Health: An Interspecies Approach to Dismantling the “Obesity Epidemic.” With over ten years of experience in various animal care settings, she recently earned her Master’s in Anthrozoology from Canisius University. Currently, Alisa serves as the Lifesaving Manager at a shelter in Philadelphia, focusing on adoption, foster, and volunteer programs. Her academic interests intersect ecofeminism and critical animal studies, particularly exploring how perceptions of animals relate to marginalised humans. Her thesis investigated the roles cats play in the lives of queer women and non-binary individuals.

​

NB In a future episode we talk to another AIP2023 awardee, Dr. Madelena Mañetto Quick, who recently graduated from Te Herenga Waka – Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand. You can learn more about the Anthrozoology as International Practice (AIP) student conference here https://anthrozoologyconference.com/

Please subscribe to get notified about our next podcast!

​

Follow us on X: @TheAnthrozoopod

Follow us on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/anthrozoopod/ 

Follow us on TikTok @anthrozoology_

To access audio versions please our official Website: https://anthrozoopod.wixsite.com/anthrozoopod

​

Podlet Guest

Alisa Rubinstein

Email: [email protected]

Websites: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisar01/

​

PodCrew

Dr. Kris Hill PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected] 

https://katzenlife.wordpress.com/

Dr. Michelle Szydlowski

[email protected]

www.internationalelephants.org

@intl_elephants

Sarah Oxley Heaney PhD Candidate, University of Exeter

[email protected] ​

www.kissingsharks.com/

​

References

Pearl RL, Wadden TA, Bach C, Leonard SM, Michel KE. (2020). Who's a good boy? Effects of dog and owner body weight on veterinarian perceptions and treatment recommendations. International Journal of Obesity, 44(12): 2455-2464.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7686094/

Cats (and their Dykes): An Anthology. Edited by Irene Reti and Shoney Sien. C. (1991). McNaughton and Gunn: https://escholarship.org/content/qt4wn4458v/supp/CATS.pdf

Maintenance Phase (Podcast). Wellness and weight loss, debunked and decoded:

 https://www.maintenancephase.com/ 

Anthrozoology as International Practice (AIP) YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@aipconference/playlists 

Alisa’s AIP2021 presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEmj7S9A0fY&list=PL-78-9WPsOo8f8kCP8j96FENDLHvkVv1K&index=4