In this episode of The Art of Subduction, Diya reconnects with GeoFORCE coordinator Eleanor Cote to explore the impact of hands-on learning and accessibility in geosciences. They discuss GeoFORCE’s 11th-grade academy's trip to the Pacific Northwest, where students come face-to-face with formations like Mount St. Helens and Crater Lake. Eleanor and Diya reflect on the importance of hands-on learning, especially when it comes to their own learning. Hear more from Eleanor on what it was like to study geology at UT Austin, how she overcame its challenges, and why it’s beneficial to study geology.
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[00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Hello and welcome to The Artist's Production. My name is Diya and today I'm here with…
[00:00:17] Eleanor Cote: with Eleanor! My name is Eleanor. I am a coordinator with I've been a program coordinator now for two years, and I had the pleasure of having Diya as one of my students for two of the summers.
[00:00:35] Diya Gaur: Yay!
[00:00:36] Eleanor Cote: 11th and 12th grade, right?
Yes. Yes. So, Eleanor was one of my coordinators for the 11th grade academy, as well as the 12th grade academy. Um, it was super fun actually, like 12th grade we did like the research project and then 11th grade is what you're coordinating now, right?
[00:00:55] Eleanor Cote: Um, so I, program coordinators typically do, um, a couple of different things.
Academies per summer, but it doesn't necessarily stay the same each summer. So, for example, last summer, I did, um, one of the 9th grades, I did two 10th grades, and then I did the 11th grade that you were on, um, then this summer, I did a 9th grade, I did, um, two 11th grades and then I did the 12th grade so I think next summer I'll probably be following along the two 11th grade academies that I had so I'll go and be with them on the 12th grade and then I'm not too sure what they're going to give me it kind of depends on just availability and then sometimes they want us to follow some of the groups that we had but it's not always a guarantee so yeah I think the schedule's out right now but I'm not I'm not too Like, I'm not for sure yet which one I'm doing, so, TBD.
[00:01:51] Diya Gaur: Can you tell me a bit more about the 11th grade academy and what goes on during it?
[00:01:57] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, absolutely. So, the 11th grade, as you remember, is probably Coined as one of our best trips just because we take our students to a completely new environment. And so, um, just a bit of background, uh, the ninth grade students, they stay in Texas and they do like, um, life of the sediment, learn about the rock cycle, um, just introduction to geology, um, sophomore year, they go to Utah and Arizona.
So it's sort of like the American Southwest kind of desert environments, which it's hot. And many students in Texas know that that's, you know, what Texas is like too, so it's not unfamiliar to them. But then going up to the Pacific Northwest on the 11th grade trip We take students up to, uh, places like Mount St.
Helens, Mount Hood, and we see, um, like these big stratovolcanoes that you're not used to seeing in Texas at all. I think there is one quote unquote volcano in Austin. It's called Pilot Knob, and it literally just looks like this. A hill. So, um, students get to see these actual, like, big volcanoes for the first time, and then we talk to them a lot about geologic hazards, and what life is like on an active margin, and so, life on the coast, up in Oregon and Washington, you are sitting right on an active margin, and so, there is a lot of tectonic activity happening, um, You got, uh, plates subducting into one another, causing, um, you know, melt, and so that's why you have this line of volcanoes running from, I think it's like Northern California up all the way up into Canada, and so we hit several volcanoes on that line.
We start off Mount St. Helens the first day, we go to Mount Hood the second day, um, we go by the, I think it's the three sisters, um, we see like Mount, gosh, there's so many, I can't even remember the names of them, um, but you see them all in the distance, right, and they're kind of all in a line, and so we talk about them all being in a line, and and explain to students like how the plates are subducting and why it's causing all of these volcanoes to be sort of in line with one another, right?
And then we take students to Crater Lake which is a caldera, which is basically a volcano that exploded very violently and then collapsed in on itself. And then we take students to uh, what's it called? The Newberry Caldera, so they see another version of a caldera. And then we go out to the coast and we talk about the geologic hazards happening out there.
So the Oregon coastline is prone to having tsunamis. And so a lot of people typically don't think of tsunamis when they're thinking of like geologic hazards, but whenever there's an earthquake happening deep at sea, you know, miles off the coast, that can cause a huge tsunami to come and devastate the entire coastline.
Um, so we teach students all about that too because tsunamis typically don't happen on the Texas coast, the Gulf of Mexico is typically pretty calm, um, and so we like to show students that there are a number of other things to worry about. Besides just, like, tornadoes and hurricanes that we typically receive in Texas, um, and it's also really amazing to get students out of their environment of, um, being in, like, you know, humid Houston or, like, deserty Southwest Texas.
You know, we go up and see these huge pine trees and, um, get to experience cooler weather, typically. This past year, it was 90 plus degrees in Oregon, and it was actually hotter in Oregon than it was in Texas, which, not fun, but, you know, it's the scenery, and then, like, you get to see these huge mountains that You just don't see in Texas.
And so that experience, I feel like for most students and for my, in my own experience too, because I was actually a GeoForce student, that was the trip that made me think like, Oh, the earth is so big and there's so many different types of landscapes and there's so much to study that's not just in my hometown.
It's a very unique experience and I think that's really the aha moment for a lot of kids being like, maybe this is something I could pursue. Kite
[00:06:17] Diya Gaur: Yeah, no,
[00:06:17] Eleanor Cote: actually
[00:06:18] Diya Gaur: I have the booklet from the 11th grade academy, I actually have it right in front of me right now. It's the one that we get on every trip, the, like this one?
The 11th grade academy, right, and so it just gives us an overview of the trip, right, and then, I mean, I remember learning a lot of this stuff and also the name of the podcast comes from like Something I learned on the trip, the art of subducting, so, you know, those connections are really there. Yeah. What was your experience on that trip?
Actually, okay, that was my favorite trip. I think that is the trip that convinced me to go into geology. I was like, Yeah, I can definitely see myself studying this for the, like, next, like, how many ever years, and I think just geology is a field where you'll never get tired of what you're learning. There's just so much to learn and find out about the earth that it's like, when you're helping others, like, I like to help people.
There's a lot of different fields where you can help people, but one thing about geology is that you're kind of bringing up a subject which is so essential to, like, life in general. So we have the issue of, like, climate change, which is going on. It's really important that we get people educated on that, and so that first step of, like, educating people comes from geologists who have to study the environment, like the planet, and then get that information out there to educate the rest of the, you know, world, really.
[00:07:38] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. And I think it's interesting to show students that this type of science is happening in all different corners of the US and of the world. I mean, obviously, GeoForce, we are just, you know, sort of like a US based program, but I mean, these types of Things and this type of research is happening all, all around on all corners of the globe.
I mean, we have researchers at UT who go down to Antarctica. We had a expedition that just went up to Greenland. Um, I mean, people who are studying down in Argentina and Chile and, you know, over in Zimbabwe, you know, places that you wouldn't think like, Oh yeah, let me go do science there. But like science is happening there.
And it's. It's exciting to see and it's exciting to be a part of, definitely.
[00:08:30] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and also, so my research mentor who I was with at the 12th grade academy, he's one of the people who went to Greenland for his research. And so he was telling me that when they go on these really big trips for whatever study or just research that they're doing.
doing in general. They have like these super big groups of different types of scientists who come together and they all kind of just collaborate like between biologists, chemists, geologists. I think that is so cool. That is so amazing. And honestly, it's a very interdisciplinary field, like geology in general.
So you need all of these different types of people. And there's a lot of ways you can go with geology. It's not just like learning about the earth, but also It's relationships with, like, other things.
[00:09:16] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely! I feel like that's what I always tell students, um, whenever they're asking me about, like, what can I go into?
Because I feel like whenever I think of geoscientists, I just think of, you know, old dudes who are looking like Indiana Jones studying rocks, right? Typically, whenever you're thinking of a geologist, like, that's who you're gonna picture. You're gonna picture some old man in his little field gear, in his little boots, and he's got a vest on that's full of rocks, you know?
But There are so many different sub disciplines of geoscience. There's so many different fields that you can marry with geology. One of the ways that we show this to students is by having the many different options on our 12th grade academy, which I'm not too sure if you've talked about in another podcast, but It's, you know, it's a great way to show students how geology can be merged with economics, geology can be merged with chemistry, geology can be merged with physics, it can be merged with, you know, technology and AI and things like that.
I mean, it's not just one type of science and there are ways that are, you know, integrating geology into their sciences and other fields and disciplines, you know, as we speak. So, it's It's so cool to know that, like, whatever you are interested in, there's some sort of intersection between geoscience and, like, that field.
And I also like to talk to students about this, like, whenever they're, you know, wondering if, if this is something that they could, uh, potentially do, like, in the future because then they go, well, what if I want to change my degree or what if I want to go into something different? Well, you know, um, Just having a background in geoscience, then you can go into something else, you know, just knowing a little bit about geoscience, like it will make you a better steward of your environment and I mean, that's always helpful whenever you're you're wanting to go into anything because Geology is the study of the earth, and like, we're all on it, you know?
Exactly. Yeah. I feel like I'm rambling, but yeah. No,
[00:11:21] Diya Gaur: no, but you're exactly right, like, that's one thing that is so important to know about geology that really many people don't acknowledge, like, when I first came into GeoForce, I just really thought it was about rocks, but You know, going further and further into each one of these academies, you talk to a lot of different people who make you realize it's like, you know, much more than just rocks, right?
And so also, like, one thing I really like about GeoForce is how fun they make it, like, you know, learning the material, it's not like school like, but it's One interactive and I think the way that they just like describe some of the things is really funny like I remember from the 11th grade trip um it was the pumice stone and so they compared it to swiss cheese because like the carbon dioxide bubbles and you know how it's like trapped in there and then eventually like forms what we see in like the rock so it's like I mean those little things it's taking one application putting it into another and I mean I personally learned a lot from that I think it's kind of funny too.
[00:12:23] Eleanor Cote: Oh, absolutely. I think that experiential learning is one of the best ways and methods to, you know, teach students, or teach anybody anything, really. I feel like I learn way better doing, like, hands on things, um, and I also really value place based type learning, so going out and actually studying things in the field, like, in person, and so not just learning about You know, a beach environment, sitting in a classroom.
It's not super, you know, helpful to try to picture what things look like whenever you're just sitting there looking at pictures on a screen. Um, and I think we can all relate. I mean, I went through college during COVID, so, like, I understand, like, Online learning is also, you just, you don't get the same experience as you would if you just went out there and actually looked at it.
So, um, yeah, one thing I love about GeoForce is that we actually take students out into the field and teach them about things in person in the places that we're actually like learning about.
[00:13:25] Diya Gaur: So you mentioned like virtual, like going into college or university and then doing, um, you know, or studying geology through that.
How was that experience for you? Like, You know, what were the difficulties in it, or what did you learn from, really?
[00:13:40] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, um, well, so my, it was my, I'm gonna show my age here, it was my junior year of college that COVID hit, and so I was doing a field methods class, which, if you take geology, and I'm sure, as you, you'll know, um, going into geology, you have to take certain classes that are, like, out in the field.
And so I took a class. That you're supposed to be out in the field online, and that was really difficult because I was supposed to be learning how to do mapping and learning how to take notes, um, of certain outcrops that I see. And so I remember it was also the early days of COVID, so they still hadn't quite adjusted to online learning.
And this was something that was completely new because No geologist would ever say, yeah, let's opt for an online program rather than taking our kids out to the field, you know? And so there wasn't much available and they really kind of had to work with what they had. So I remember doing like this, video game thing where you would go and like click on an outcrop and i mean for the technology of what they had i think that it was fine i think it was fine but it definitely stunted my skills in the field it definitely made it much more difficult whenever i actually did have to go out and do and perform these skills i felt like i wasn't as confident i felt like the experience that i had just didn't match being out and actually doing the science.
I'm not gonna lie, I really don't like virtual learning. I think that it, I think it can be useful in certain places, so, for example, GeoForce now hosts a virtual academy, and we teach students a skill that is geologically relevant, but also you can do without having to go into the field because some students may be limited, you know, physically or, um, may not want to spend all day outside.
And like, that's totally fine. I mean, not everybody is like, let's go hike 10 miles, right? Some people are, some people aren't, and that's okay. So we really, we really wanted to make it, um, more of like an inclusive type environment that any student who feels like I want to. I understand geology and I like geology, but I like the computational aspects, um, could be included in our program.
And so, we did, what was it, I think we did a Python project this past year. And that was really awesome, and I mean, that is an amazing project. Prime example of when virtual learning is excellent, and it works, and I think that it was super successful, and a lot of students had a lot of fun, but there's other times where, you know, virtual learning just doesn't work.
It can't compare to being out and doing, like, the in person learning, so, yeah, I'm, I, I didn't have a great experience doing it, but at the same time, I'm happy I did because now I feel like I can relate to some students. I mean, now I'm finding out that students were in, like, what, second grade whenever COVID hit?
I'm like, oh my god, I'm just like, So old, but at least we have that thing in common, you know, and I can, and I think that students also now, because of that experience, appreciate the in person learning a bit more.
[00:17:15] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and that's super important too, like, I think during 9th grade is when we still had like the virtual GeoForce Academies, like, if you compare that to what I learned, like, in maybe 10th or 11th grade, I think I retained the information I learned, like.
in 10th and 11th and the in person academies a bit better honestly saying or speaking than like what we had learned in 9th grade like I barely remember some of the stuff that we learned from 9th grade but you know it's those little differences that make um you know they kind of make this really big impact towards the end as well especially in your knowledge.
12th grade is when we kind of had to put all of that, like, information together, and so that's when it was, like, really the most important. And I did, like, the glacial ice sheets lab, and I was studying the geothermal heat flux and doing ice sheet modeling using Python. And so, even though we did learn Python in person, I can definitely see how it makes a big difference compared to learning it online, like, through the virtual academy.
Because one, you have like someone who's like readily there to support you and just like do that one on one stuff I think that's like one thing that I really like about GeoForce as well like the 12th grade research project is that you can get that like advice from whoever's like kind of overseeing your project and You know, it's like these changes, which they're helping you implement into your project, it's super like meaningful because one, it's like an industry level professional, and two, it's like a lot of the, a lot of the time their feedback, they, they know what they're doing really, so when they tell you, oh you should probably fix this in your um, poster or just like in your methodology in general, I think those are also what make a lot of difference as compared to like being online.
You know, you can always get that support online, and it makes it very accessible, which I think is also very important, like, this is gonna, I'm gonna talk a bit more about this later, but, you know, there are like those substantial benefits we see to in person learning compared to like online, but on the matter of making geology more accessible, I think that's super important, because a lot of the time, like you mentioned earlier, um, We think of geologists as like, these really old white men who are having their like, Indiana Jones moment.
I think it's super important that we get like, more women and people of color involved in the field, because one, it's kind of male dominated right now, I will say that. And so, it's really, really important that we get all these different perspectives, rather than, you know, the same one that we're seeing like, all the time, and yeah.
[00:19:49] Eleanor Cote: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, this is something I am very passionate about and something that I love to speak on too, because I feel like, um, this is another issue that GeoForce seems to also be addressing, and so, I mean, listen, whenever I went into college, I remember, okay, out of all of the fields, Uh, geology is pretty small, so whenever we had orientation, I remember, like, the chemistry students, there were, like, hundreds of them, right?
Physics, hundreds. Computer science, hundreds. There was, like, 30 something geoscience students, right? Whenever everybody's, like, supposed to yell for their major, Geoscience, it sounded quiet because there was only 30 of us. We were really, really trying, but there, what just, there's just not that many, right?
And with there not being that many, I can count on one hand how many female professors I had. I can count on one hand how many, uh, people of color I had as my professors. Like, I, I think I had one woman of color. One. And it wasn't even a geology class, it was an elective. Oh, wow. And me, as a white female, you know, obviously having female representation, like, that's awesome, but like, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be a female of color or, you know, any person of color, like, Coming into some sort of department like that, and especially at such a big university, feeling like I'm supported, feeling like I can see somebody who looks like me doing the work that I want to do.
That's where I feel like a lot of big institutions really fall short, and it's not necessarily their fault if there aren't students who want to be part of the community. The program, but you have to get those populations and you have to be able to retain those populations by showing them like you can do this work.
And so one thing I love about Geo, of course, is that we have a very broad range of students from many different backgrounds and our applications Uh, are pretty unique, and so we obviously blind everything, um, and so, like, nothing is ever taken into account, but just the way that our program is, and students who are interested in what we do, we always end up having, um, a very, you know, Broad range of students.
Um, we always typically, I'm not going to say always because there are some cohorts that are kind of like 50, 50, but it's typically like 60, 40, or even 70, 30, um, female to male ratio. And so, um, we do bring in a lot of female students and I think that's awesome. I think it's amazing. And I think. We also do an excellent job at getting instructors who look like our students.
And so we have a lot of female instructors, we have a lot of instructors of color, we have staff members who are matching the identities of these students, and I think it is critical, absolutely critical, not just even important, like it is critical to have people who look like you in these spaces because You need role models and you need to see people who, who are doing the work that you want to do, um, and so I'm very passionate about this work.
I think it's, like, absolutely necessary. Um. I'm sure you know about SB17. Yes, I do. So, so, it is harder for us, you know, to get certain populations because you can't necessarily target anybody. But GeoForce was never, it's never, it's never been a way that we get students. Like, we, um, have always had blinded applications and, It's a good way of bringing in new students who maybe think that the sciences aren't for them.
Um, bringing them to see that this is something for you and this is something that you could definitely succeed in. And, you know, there's always got to be a first, right? So, we want our students to know that. to show one another like, Hey, I have been in your shoes and now look at me like I'm successful.
And so we just finished our 20th year for our program. And so now, as you can imagine, like we have people who are well into their careers. In fact, uh, our speaker, I'm not sure if you remember Priscilla who spoke at our GeoForce alumni, um, a couple of years ago. She is a young Hispanic woman from, I think she's from Del Rio, is she from Del Rio?
[00:24:43] Diya Gaur: I think so, she's like from a smaller town.
[00:24:46] Eleanor Cote: or, yeah. She's from a southwest town, I should know this, but she's a southwest, she's a southwest student, our southwest students are always, like, the best, I was a southwest student, okay, so, I'm a little biased. Um, but, yeah. She gave an amazing speech talking about how whenever she was growing up, you know, she always thought that a geoscientist or a scientist was Old white man.
And whenever she had to do some sort of like thought provoking exercise where you had to draw, you know, a geoscientist, that's what she drew. And she ended up going through GeoForce, decided that geology was for her and that she wanted to do it. She went to college, got her degree. And now she is working for Chevron as a geotechnologist, and I remember her finishing her speech saying, Now I know, a scientist can look like me.
And I just thought that was so inspiring, and so beautiful, and so inspiring for, like, all of the young ladies, and And young men in our audience, you know, everybody in our audience to see that, and especially y'all being 12th graders, you know, embarking on your senior year and about to go to college, like, I just feel like It's so great to see that somebody who was in your shoes just a couple years ago, you know, who didn't know or think that they could make it, is now working at one of our sponsoring companies, killing it, and now giving a speech in front of everybody.
[00:26:19] Diya Gaur: Yeah, I know. I don't know. It was so powerful. She's so inspiring. Yeah, it was so powerful. Like, when I heard that, like, last ending statement, like, a geologist can also look like me, oh my gosh, that was, like, the most perfect way she could have ended off, like, her speech, because one, it's, like, empowering other students, like you said, but two, it's just, like, you really see, like, I mean, How much confidence, like, you can get from, like, doing something that you love, and that's one thing I really love to see, that she's doing something that she's happy in and that she loves, and I think that's also important when considering a career in geology, so yeah.
[00:26:53] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely, and then, and then, you know, any young Hispanic woman who's sitting in the audience who's like, I've never seen a geologist that looks like me, Now you've seen one! Like, she's doing a, she's doing, she's doing great.
[00:27:06] Diya Gaur: Right, yeah, no, literally. So, I mean, for the students who don't have GeoForce, like, as we in Texas or the United States do, what would you say to them and, like, how should they get more involved and find people who are similar to them in geology?
Like, how do they establish those connections and just, like, Find their community in the geology field.
[00:27:29] Eleanor Cote: I would definitely say there are lots of institutions all around who do outreach programs, and so just a quick Google search, honestly, looking to see if there's any place around you that does any sort of outreach.
I know that There are lots of places, even just for me, you know, looking around to see what are other schools doing, like, what, what other initiatives do other people have, like, what kind of things are people doing to increase geoscience awareness, or, or, um, like, teach students, like, That geoscience is a career option for them.
I did find a lot of really, really amazing resources. Um, and so I would recommend just searching some place that's close to you, whether it's like, you know, like a university or a, just a smaller college and see if they have anything. And if not, Honestly, just reaching out to someone, a faculty member or, um, somebody like, you know, one of the coordinators or, or myself.
An institution that you have, that you find has a program that interests you and just asking questions because, um, Chances are, like, we can connect you to colleagues that we have, or, or other people that we know. We have, I mean, I have a very extensive network now because of being part of the university and working for GeoForce and meeting so many amazing people, whether that's at a conference or just through somebody who knows somebody else.
And I love connecting students, love talking to students, love You know, trying to get people interested in the, in the subject. And so, those who don't have access to GeoForce, if I'm being honest, if you don't have access to another program similar to GeoForce, and if you can't find anything, there's lots of resources online.
You know, getting on social media and just doing your research. I know there are like GeoForce, not GeoForce, sorry, Geoscience, like content creators who make videos and, and content about science. And so those are really awesome people to follow. Um, they can definitely be a resource to just learning about science and then doing the digging yourself.
I mean, if something interests you. Go and search it up, and do your research on it, and you'll find if it's interesting or not, and you'll see if it's actually something for you.
[00:30:11] Diya Gaur: No, yeah, and also, like, museums as well, they're a really good point of, you know, finding geological things, like, I know we have the Museum of Natural Sciences in Houston, which is, like, really big, but they have this huge gems and mineralogy ex Exhibition and there's a lot of stuff you can do with it.
You can always volunteer there and you know That's like one way to learn about a bit of geology and honestly like I think now Geology is becoming a bit more expansive. We're seeing it more in different areas and that's one thing that I really like so definitely contacting like local universities and colleges is one thing because I think a lot of the time, or the majority of the time, colleges do happen to have a geology program or like, something similar to it but like, under a different name like Earth Sciences or Planetary Sciences.
[00:30:59] Eleanor Cote: And typically they're small programs and they want people to be involved and so whether that's, you know. Buy some sort of outreach initiative that they may have, like a summer camp or even just like a day camp. And if they don't have something like that, maybe they'd be open to you just coming and touring whatever facilities they have.
Or just having a faculty member that, you know, geologists love to talk about geology. They will talk to you about it all day, every day. As long as you will listen. And so, I'm sure if you are looking for, you know, somebody to talk to you about geology, if that's what you're interested in, um, yeah, reach out to your, to your local colleges and universities and see what they got.
[00:31:43] Diya Gaur: No, yeah, I totally agree with that. And also, on that note, so, through programs like GeoForce, we learn a lot of skills, but, in your experience, have you, like, picked up any skills or, like, you know, different types of knowledge from your experiences with geology, or just, like, geology in general, which you didn't really anticipate you, like, learning and you know.
[00:32:02] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, um, well, so whenever I started with geology, I was under the impression that I was going to go into volcanology and it was because of my 11th grade trip because I just found it so fascinating and I was like, oh my gosh, I love the Pacific Northwest. I want to study this. And then I got to college, took a couple classes, and realized, okay, volcanology is not for me, right?
And so, I think because, like I mentioned earlier, geology is so broad and there's so many different subfields of geoscience, I took classes. That were just, you know, random. It's not like I come, I, it's not like I followed a very specific career path, um, like I'm going to become a, you know, oil and gas, well log analyst and so I'm going to take classes specifically for that.
I was like, let me just take whatever sounds cool and, Let's see what happens. So I ended up taking this paleoclimate class randomly because I heard that the professor was good and I just thought, okay, you know, might as well take it. I ended up loving that class. I thought like climate is so cool. I had never studied it before.
And after that, I was looking for opportunities to study climate. And within that, I found the importance of communication. And so. And I thought, oh, I never thought about doing communication. You know, in high school, I was, you know, very outgoing, I was in a lot of clubs and stuff, and I, you know, I've always been a very chatty Cathy, and so I communicate on the daily, but I never thought, oh, like, this is also important.
In the context of science, because it's important to be able to communicate your science to people. And so I learned more about the importance of science communication. And so I started taking classes geared towards that. I remember I took a broader impacts class where we talked about, um, you know, the broader impacts of science and how to communicate your science.
And I wrote one of my papers on reaching rural populations because I grew up in a very rural town and there wasn't much geoscience outreach done besides the GeoForce program and so I explained that many people whenever they read these or these scientific papers get published it's just a bunch of gibberish big old words and a lot of scientists have big egos and so they use the hardest words that you pull out in the back of the dictionary that nobody knows what those things mean you know And it's almost like, ha ha, nobody can understand my paper, that means I'm smarter, but in fact, people can't understand your paper so they don't know what the heck you're talking about, and then they won't know what science you're doing, you know?
And so, yeah, through studying geology, And I hope, hopefully this is answering your question, but yeah, I learned the importance of communication, and specifically, like, being able to communicate the science that you're doing, and knowing your audience, so that's something that I've also learned. So used within my job because I'm speaking to students at the incoming ninth grade level.
So these students just finished eighth grade, haven't even done their first year of high school, and I'm supposed to communicate with them. But I'm also supposed to be communicating with, um, students who are about to embark on their college journey, right? And so you have to know your audience. How do I talk to them?
Also within my job, I speak to researchers, so people who are, you know, tenured professors who have extensive careers, who have published, you know, hundreds of papers and have been cited, you know, thousands of times, have amazing careers, have to be able to communicate with them, have to be able to communicate with parents who don't know what, you know, why am I taking your kid across the line.
United States to teach them about geology and they want to know because they're like, I don't know about geology and my kid just signed up for this and now I'm supposed to be okay with it. I have to communicate with them. I have to communicate with my colleagues. I have to communicate with my staff members.
I, through geology, have really learned the importance of communication. Um, and it has, um, been very impactful for me being good at my job. I'm the communications lead. Don't know why they gave me that. They just handed it to me whenever I got the job. And so I was like, okay, this is what I'm doing and I just had to run with it, but I really learned the skills of communication by doing my geoscience classes.
And, being introduced to it that
[00:36:48] Diya Gaur: way. Would you say that, like, the communication that you learn in your Geosciences classes, is that, like, partially why you are a GeoForce, like, counselor, and why you decided to come back to GeoForce?
[00:36:59] Eleanor Cote: Um, I think it definitely plays a role. I think that communication and outreach go hand in hand.
And so, I think whenever I saw this position open, I thought, This is a way for me to do communication. This was even before that I knew that I was getting the communications coordinator position, um, but I saw this as an opportunity to communicate and to do outreach to things I'm very, very passionate about, that I became passionate about through taking my geoscience classes and One reason I was passionate about outreach was because of taking these climate classes, right, and having family members who think that climate change isn't real, and having people from my hometown that think that, you know, we're on a flat earth, blah blah blah, you know, not necessarily that people believe that, but like, that's the type of Misinformation that people have and I was like, oh my gosh, okay So one thing that I find interesting is climate, right?
How do I communicate the things that I? Think and that I know and that I study To the people who don't agree with me on these topics How do I make sure that people understand the work that I'm doing? I forgot to mention at the At my, at one point, my senior year, I started working in a paleoclimate lab where I researched El Nino signatures down in, like it was off the coast of Australia in coral reefs that recorded, um, like the different temperatures.
Anyway, interesting science. Very cool stuff, but means nothing to somebody who thinks that none of it's real, right? And so being able to communicate to them, it kind of, it was like a no brainer, like, I need to learn how to be able to do this, right?
[00:38:54] Diya Gaur: Mmhmm
[00:38:56] Eleanor Cote: As well as communicating with them, finding importance in introducing people to things, um, and to science, and showing people that, like, you can understand this, like, I can understand this, we can all understand this, let's Understand one another.
Um, super full. So, yes, it's Yeah, one of the reasons why I was attracted to this job, but it's been awesome, yeah.
[00:39:20] Diya Gaur: No, I mean, you do such a good job, like, you're really good at what you do, like, I can see those skills, like, the communication skills in you as well, like, you definitely have, like, the art of storytelling, like, I'm so engaged when I talk to you, and I think that's, like, also really important when you're talking to, um, the incoming Geo4 students as well, so, you know, you're super nervous, you're coming in as a freshman, you don't know what to expect, so I think that's really important as well.
I mean, on that note, you did mention, like, misconceptions people have, but
[00:39:49] Diya Gaur: Personally, for you, what is like one common misconception people have about geology that you would love to clear up?
[00:39:57] Eleanor Cote: Oh man, let me think about this. Um, I mean, one would be that anybody can be a geologist. I think that that, I mean, we already talked about it, but I think that that is one thing that I wish I could teach everybody because even me coming in with, you know, only taking chemistry as a sophomore, you know, not having any sort of like AP classes just because I went to a very small school.
My graduating class was 32 people. Um. Wow, that's small. So small. More cows in the town than people. We had one science teacher who taught us four subjects. You know, I just didn't really have good access to rigorous, advanced education and classes like some of my peers did. And so I went in thinking, okay, let me go to UT because I got out of that a good mission, right?
I went in and I failed chemistry so bad I would have had to get like a 300 on the final for me to even pass the class. Had to use a, my, like, one time, you get one. One in your entire college career, you get one Q drop after the period ends. Right, I had to use it my first semester because I failed so badly.
Gosh. That felt Like crap, right? That made me not feel didn't feel too too capable of doing geology, right? I was like, uh, Maybe this isn't for me, right? Maybe this is not for me. Then ended up having to take a math class. I took a placement exam and I failed so badly that I wasn't even able to take pre calculus, okay?
Wasn't even able to take pre calculus. I remember going into my advisor being like, Eleanor, I'm You're amazing, but things are a little scary right now. I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, they are. Okay, um anyway, I persisted. I went to tutoring. I got my classes done that I needed to get done, took them at a community college.
It's fine to take classes at a community college. Totally fine. You're still gonna get your same degree and that Degree and Diploma sitting on my wall right now, and it's the same as all my peers who suffered through Calculus at UT, okay? And I was able to get my degree. I have a BS in Geosciences, and so, um, one thing that I would love to clear up is that anybody is capable of doing it.
Anybody Regardless of your age, gender, nationality, any of it, you are more than capable of doing it, and if it's something that you're passionate about, like, you should go for it, and there are resources available for you. Um. There are people who you may see that you think, oh, you know, I can't compete with them, or I'm not, I can't compare myself to them, and to that, I would just say, like, you know, you're your own unique individual, and You can do it.
I'm not sure if that necessarily fits with my misconception about geology, which misconception about like academia as a whole,
[00:43:31] Diya Gaur: maybe. I mean, that's like one thing about STEM in general, like people think, well, STEM is difficult, but people are really inclined to give up after their first failure. But I think what's so important to realize about STEM is that It's an ever evolving field, there's always going to be mistakes, and those mistakes are really what leads you to the right answer, like the right conclusion, so, you know, even if you fail at first, you're gonna still end up, like, you know, getting where you want to be, like how you did with your, um, your degree in geology as well, it's like, all those hardships, they do end up, like, making you into a stronger person, and, at the end of the day, you're human, you're exactly, I mean, I wouldn't say you're exactly like everyone else, but you still have the same qualities, traits, you're as capable as, like, some of the brain children you see.
So yeah, I think that's really important.
[00:44:26] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. One piece of advice I would also give You may end up finding that you like something different, you know? I, at first, like I said, thought I was going to go into Volcanology. Realized, you, you very quickly, I think, whenever you're faced with failure, realize your strengths and you realize your weaknesses.
And so I remember, you know, Um, realizing very quickly that maybe I was good in math whenever I was in high school, but I am not great at math and I don't enjoy doing it. So, I just decided, like, it's not something I want to continue to sit through. It's not something that I want to continue to, you know, force myself to do.
For some people, if you want to force yourself to do something, and because you're like, I'm gonna do it, good for you. I'm not one of those people. I find my strengths, I find my weaknesses, and I avoid my weaknesses. If I can. So, I decided maybe geophysics type things, maybe that's not for me. So, let's see what else I got.
So, that's when I started taking other classes that interested me more. Some that, you know, got me out of my comfort zone that I thought maybe I'm not going to care about this. Maybe it's not going to be interesting to me. Um, you know, took the paleoclimate class on a whim. And It redirected me into something that I think that has completely just like blossomed into something awesome.
You know, if it's uh, I like the saying, it's not a rejection, it's a redirection. That is so true. I firmly believe in that and I think that it's something you can definitely consider whenever you're in college or Just in life in general, but, but specifically, like, with your major and with your degree.
[00:46:12] Diya Gaur: And I mean, that's like, also one thing that I tell my friends, even if you don't do well on your tests, it's just your sign to just work harder for the next time.
You know, a grade, or even a, like, letter, a number, it really doesn't define who you are at the end of the day, and I say that a lot, but I also need to start taking that advice myself. I think that's one thing I need to also learn how to overcome, especially, like, going into college and Wanting to major in geology.
I've heard that like college algebra, college math is like super difficult So it's really sticking through it and you know Committing to what I want to do or just in general like the
[00:46:47] Eleanor Cote: coursework You're totally capable of doing it. You are more than capable and also going to a big institution Like UT, I had so many resources, so I'm not too sure, where, do you know where you want to go right now, or do you have any idea?
I want to go to UT. I'd love to hear that, okay. Woo! Hakam! Yeah, UT, love UT. They have so, so, so, so, so many resources. Even the geology department, I think they have tutoring now available specifically for geology majors that are doing You know chemistry like intro to chemistry courses or intro to math courses because those are the weed out courses, right?
For whatever reason, I don't know what evil people are conspiring against freshmen at UT It's okay. I never lose. But they were like, let's make this really hard, really difficult, make people want to drop out, right? You gotta push through, girl. You gotta push through. It's gonna be hard, and it is hard, and it's challenging.
For a reason, I mean, it's A SimDegree is challenging, but you are more than capable of doing it, and If you don't do well as somebody who was like a perfectionist, I mean, I was a valedictorian in high school, like, I was not used to making anything lower than like a 97, so I'm sure you can understand how shocked I was whenever I received my first letter grade and it was Alright, my first, my first grade in, what was it, chemistry?
[00:48:21] Diya Gaur: Mm hmm.
[00:48:21] Eleanor Cote: I think, girl, I cried all the way back to Jester. I cried all the way back home. All the way back home. And then I received another 40 something. Received a 30 something. I think I made a 38 on one of my tests. Yeah. So, as somebody who was not used to failing, I had to think, okay.
One foot in front of the other, Eleanor, work harder. And I did, and I retook chemistry, and I ended up making, I think, like, a B or something. And I realized B's also get degrees. C's also get degrees. If you pass, you should just take it and run with it. And you think, okay, I will be better next time, or I will do better on the next exam, but It's okay.
College will humble you. It really does. It humbles even the most ambitious, uh, like, straight A students. It really, it really has its ways of getting into you, but you really just have to be strong, stay committed, see the vision.
[00:49:25] Diya Gaur: Yes,
[00:49:26] Eleanor Cote: exactly. Hustle. You got it. You got it, girl. Yeah. But also have fun, right?
You're there to have fun. Yeah. And enjoy yourself. Join clubs. There's like, the Undergraduate Geological Society. You can join that. Geoforce Longhorns, we have a club. Yeah. At UT, we give free pizza and dinner and have speakers and paint rocks and stuff, so like, have fun too. Oh, that's so cute. I will expect to see you there, Dia.
[00:49:55] Diya Gaur: you will see me there, for sure. Amazing! Yes, you will, no, you will definitely see me there. Painting the rocks, yes. So, I mean, in terms of studying geology at UT, I mean, what does UT do, like, best, like, what is really special about UT Geology compared to all the other geoscience programs across the U. S.?
[00:50:17] Eleanor Cote: Well, um, besides being ranked one of the best geology schools in the nation, um, which they deserve their title because they have really, really awesome faculty members, um, they also have a really unique way of doing, like, the in field sort of learning, and so their field camp, I know that they've So I can't speak on it necessarily because I haven't been on their new and improved sort of field camp, but whenever I was Still a student.
Um, we did six weeks out in the field, which is a long time, but a lot of other camps, or a lot of other, um, schools, they'll only do, like, up to three weeks maybe, and like, that's, that's a long time out in the field for them. Um, so, UT now, um, Specifically, Jackson School of Geosciences, they offer, it's like three weeks, I think your sophomore year, and now three weeks your junior year, but you do a lot of fieldwork, and so you really get to be outside and study outside, which is what interests a lot of people, and like, gets a lot of people into geology, is because they want to work outside, or they like being outside, they want to travel.
On top of that, UT also offers a lot of really interesting classes. So they have a lot of different geoscientists in different disciplines. And so I know that they offer, I think they do like an environmental science degree route. You can, so you can do general geosciences, which is what I did. You can go into, uh, environmental sciences.
So you will be doing, I think, classes in the sustainability department. And in like the College of Liberal Arts, learning about sustainability in conjunction with geosciences. I know there is a geophysics route, and so you're taking more math and physics, um, heavy classes. And then there is a petroleum geosystems engineering route, um, so you're taking classes.
in the geology department in conjunction with classes in the engineering school. And then I think they also just added in a climate track. I did see that on the website,
[00:52:25] Diya Gaur: yeah.
[00:52:26] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, I haven't, I haven't looked into it too closely. I probably should because we have a lot of students now at the Jackson School and I should be seeing what they're up to.
Um, on top of that, those are just like the set tracks they have, right? I think there's also an education route, maybe. where you take classes with education as well. But on top of that, if you are somebody who is like, I want to do geology, but I also want to learn about government, which I had a girl who I graduated with, who wanted to go into policy, like geoscience, um, scientific policy and go to law school.
The geoscience department really, really works with you to kind of Make your own sort of degree plan. I'm talking about this whenever I was a student, things could have changed. I know there's been some turnover, but um, from what I remember, it's very customizable and you can kind of, I mean, there's obviously classes that like you have to take for your degree plan, but there's a lot of wiggle room to kind of do what you want and learn about what you want.
And there are a lot of options because it's one of the best schools and we have a lot of faculty members who are super awesome. And. teach very well. There are a lot of different classes as opposed to going to a smaller school where not that much is offered, right? And then there are opportunities to go study elsewhere and do field work elsewhere.
And so a lot of these faculty members will have grant money and will be able to take students out into the field, whether that's in the US or in another country. And so I had friends who were in Morocco and went down to South America and, you know, went over, I think, They did a trip to Switzerland. Um, they also have honors clubs and the Jackson Scholars Club.
They do international trips too. So, I think with going to a university like UT, who just has a lot of people with big credentials, um, you get access to a lot more. compared to going to a smaller school that doesn't maybe have as much or have as many people or have as much funding.
[00:54:43] Diya Gaur: Right. And also that's like one thing that interests me a lot about going to UT, just like the amount of classes which are offered to you and just like the ability to explore what you want to do.
So I mean, as like someone who wants to go to UT, that's like something I look the most forward to. And also like, you know, the international trips as well, like, I recently took, um, a trip to Austria over the summer. It was like an exchange program. Just being able to see the natural scenery on, really, the other side of the world, it's something that's, like, so fascinating to me, and honestly, I'm, like, in complete awe every time I see, like, mountains, volcanoes, because it's really, like, the force of nature at work, and, you know, for me to think that, Well, we live on this planet, but we really also, at the same time, don't know much about it.
I think that is one thing we need to change. Like, that needs to be changed ASAP.
[00:55:39] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, there is so much to explore, so much to see. Whenever you do geology, like, the world is your office. So, the world is really your oyster. Like, you can do whatever you want, you can go wherever you want, study whatever you want.
And, like, you got the whole world. And the planets! You can go out of you can go out of out of Earth and study other planets. I know people who do that, too. So, no, that is so true. Like, actually, even just for just describing you. Yeah. Like, actually, I don't know why
[00:56:09] Diya Gaur: I didn't mention this earlier, but also for my 12th grade project, we did both Earth and Mars, which was like actually super cool.
Like we came up with this like. Kind of last minute, but we were like, kind of just all brainstorming, like, me and my group. Um, we were brainstorming things that we would be interested in researching about and, like, wanting to apply that. So we're like, you know, how about we think a little bit outside of the box and go past Earth?
You know, in geology, we really just have learned about things on Earth, but why not take it one step further and do our own research about, like, Mars? So we were, like, studying the western ice sheet of Antarctica and also comparing that to the southern polar ice cap of Mars, and what specifically we were looking for was, like, the geothermal heat flux in these Python models, which we Created, and just like, coming up with an evaluation of that, and if life on Mars is sustainable based on what we know of like, the composition, or like, the chemical composition of the ice cap.
So, there's just so many ways that you can take it, and honestly, that was really fascinating, like, I really love that part of, you know, the Academy, and just geology in general, like, whatever we have on Earth, we can also see if we can apply that in other systems, like, Mars, and just seeing if life is sustainable on other planets.
Really, really interesting and fascinating to me. Like, I feel like I've said that a lot, like, the past couple of, like, topics we've talked about, but, you know, there's just so much of geology which is so interesting, like, there is just so much to it and that you can learn from. And that's what I love so much about the field in general.
[00:57:53] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. And I would really encourage you, I mean, do you have a specific subfield that, like, you, that specifically piques your interest, or do you, do you think you're gonna go in and just kind of take classes and see what, what you land on?
[00:58:05] Diya Gaur: I really like geobiology, like, I mean, the intersection of both geology and biology.
Like for me, I mean, I really just, I mean, those are just the two things I really love learning about. So there are a couple of schools where you can do research on that, like as an undergraduate student. And I think at UT there were, I think we talked about this, um, during the 12th grade academy, but there are a couple of people, I don't remember if they were professors or researchers who also do a bit more like specialized, um, research on that subject.
[00:58:40] Eleanor Cote: I know a girl that I went to school with. She was doing research on These little microbes in caves. Um, so that's, it exists, honestly. Shoot me an email on Monday and I will, I will, or I guess it's Tuesday. Oh, I thought it was Thursday. Shoot me an email tomorrow and I can. Start looking into people who do that and see if I can match you up.
[00:59:10] Diya Gaur: That would be great. Thank you so much Yeah,
[00:59:12] Eleanor Cote: absolutely.
[00:59:13] Diya Gaur: Do you have any questions for me, by the way?
[00:59:16] Eleanor Cote: Um, I do want to know so I I know we talked a bit about this on the 12th grade Academy But what made you start this podcast? Was it just because you wanted to you know, do more outreach or or what was it?
[00:59:33] Diya Gaur: me like when I talk about geology to my peers in school I'll always like get like A look from them, like, oh, what's that? I've never heard of that before. And so, not everyone knew, like, going into 8th grade, or just like 9th grade. You know, whatever grade level. That geology was a program that was available for them.
So I feel like that's just at my school when like all these kids went to HIC for middle school and you guys came and did the outreach to us like coming into your science classes. That's like one thing, but I think one aspect which I really wanted to focus on was making education about geology more accessible to students.
And that's just like, across the world, and podcasts is like one of those ways that you can get the word like, out there, really. You don't have to be in a specific region for it, you, you know. really can, it's like virtual, it's digital, it's available across the world. And so for me, it's just making that love for geology, which I have available, and like kind of instill that passion in other students as well.
Because there's a lot of people out there right now who don't know what they want to do. But you know, maybe if they learn about geology, and what exactly geologists do, maybe it will inspire them to pursue a career in the field and you know, find what they love in the future. So yeah, so I kind of want to give back, yeah.
[01:01:00] Eleanor Cote: Amazing! Girl, you're gonna have to come work for us at GeoForce.
[01:01:06] Diya Gaur: No, I am. I’m going to come back as a counselor.
[01:01:08] Eleanor Cote: Girl, come take my job.
[01:01:09] Diya Gaur: think I already told Jennifer this, but I'm definitely gonna come back to GeoForce as a counselor. Like, I already have my plans to apply, so I love that. That's
[01:01:17] Eleanor Cote: amazing. I will look forward to working with you.
Yes. Go easy on that application, please. I, yeah, just mentioned Eleanor was on the podcast, and so, um, just mentioned she has a podcast. I think we'll know who it is. Yeah.
[01:01:33] Diya Gaur: No, I mean, I've talked to Mitchell from, like, he does the 12th grade, like, speaking thingy. You are doing 11th grade, Jennifer did 10th grade, and Jasmine did 9th grade, so I have, like, all of the puzzle pieces put together, and so, yeah.
Perfect. We just need to talk to Dr. Turner and, you know, get an overview of the entire program, so, yeah.
[01:01:59] Eleanor Cote: Leah is just a Big ball of knowledge and she is awesome to talk to. I remember talking to her on that project I worked on with the broader impact class whenever I was a senior in college and I just remember being like, oh my gosh This woman is frickin phenomenal.
So she is one of Big inspiration. I look forward to hearing that podcast that you got with her. Yeah,
[01:02:24] Diya Gaur: no, she's so amazing and I feel like also just like the values like really align like the reason why I started this project or the podcast in general and also what she's trying to achieve through GeoForce, I think, you know, the missions really align together when you kind of see it in retrospect.
[01:02:42] Eleanor Cote: absolutely. Absolutely.
[01:02:45] Diya Gaur: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. This was fun. So thank you for joining the podcast, Eleanor. This is the Art of Subduction ,Diya Out.
