What does a piece of land owe the people around it once the golf stops paying for itself?

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Blake Conant (golf course architect; co-designer of Old Barnwell and the Gilroy) to talk about the second course he is building in the dirt right now — and the master's thesis he wrote a decade earlier arguing that some golf courses should stop being golf courses.

The conversation dives into:

• Why a painting degree and three months running equipment with Tom Doak at Dismal River turned out to be the right education for golf architecture
• Building the Gilroy next door to a course everybody already loves, and the Snoop Dogg rule Blake uses to keep from chasing it
• The 90-acre parcel Nick Schreiber bought so the routing would work, and why Blake says architects are simply greedy
• A kids course with a tunnel and a ramp, built on Brian Schneider's premise that kids do not actually want to putt
• The 2013 thesis on bankrupt courses: what Blake got right about supply, what he missed about demand, and why the courses that closed were the wrong ones
• The arithmetic that decides whether affordable public golf gets built at all — roughly ten dollars of green fee for every million spent

Connect with our guest

🎨 Blake Conant — https://www.dundeegolf.com/ 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/Dundee_Golf — | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dundeegolf/ | 💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/blake-conant-90566a37/

⛳️ Old Barnwell — https://oldbarnwell.com

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Links & Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/633c8703-5880-4522-bd6d-5967b45fc777/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

🗣️Contribute to the show! — 📧 email: [email protected]

Chapters

00:00 "Make sure your first one is your worst one"

00:49 Welcome, and kudos to the R&A for actually enforcing the rules

04:19 Who Blake Conant is, and how the Professor found him

07:45 Teaching of the week: "Build a Course Today" and the overbuild

09:30 Titleist Vokey SM11

11:11 Conant, Conant, or Conan the Barbarian

12:18 House paint, big canvases, and actually selling art

14:44 Art school to landscape architecture to Dismal River

17:42 The doubts he probably should have had

19:20 Following Old Barnwell: the Snoop Dogg rule

20:53 Was a second course always the plan?

23:12 Nick Schreiber, and hiring people you then leave alone

27:19 The kids course: they don't actually want to putt

29:56 Tunnels, ramps, and a train that isn't there yet

30:37 Who the Gilroy is for, and greens that sit on the ground

33:11 Still testing the good player, just differently

34:41 Buying the purple parcel

37:09 Buy the land before anybody knows you're building

38:59 The 2013 thesis on bankrupt golf courses

41:58 What are we measuring: social, environmental, economic

47:39 The wrong courses closed

48:58 Repurposing, HOAs, and grand ideas that don't pencil

51:05 Should a new project pass the test before opening day?

52:49 Golf as a Trojan horse: programming, foundation, community

55:45 Aiken's building boom and a healthy kind of competition

59:38 The public course he'd like to build without donors

1:03:49 Wrap and thanks

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

Can a golf facility be fun, affordable, and welcoming for the local community while maintaining an elite course and golf experience that attracts committed golfers from around the globe? 

Brian Conley knows it can; he sees it every day, and he believes it starts long before any of them hit their first tee shot.

As the General Manager of The Park in West Palm Beach, Brian has helped build one of the most celebrated public golf experiences in the country. But this conversation goes well beyond architecture or rankings. It's about creating a place where people feel welcome, where every decision serves a mission, and where golf becomes a vehicle for community rather than exclusivity.

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Brian Conley (GM at The Park) to discuss why "fun" became the north star for The Park, what public golf can learn from private clubs (and vice versa), how to think about pricing without compromising accessibility, why walking matters, and whether this model can realistically spread to more cities.

If you've ever wondered why certain golf courses become gathering places while others remain just another tee sheet, this one's for you.

The conversation dives into:

• Why every successful golf project needs a clear "why"
• The philosophy behind The Park's "Open Golf" approach
• Stripping away unnecessary traditions without losing what makes golf special
• The balance between accessibility, sustainability, and premium public golf
• Building community through programming, leagues, events, and local ownership
• Why walking-first golf creates a better experience for players and operators
• Lessons learned from Bobby Jones Golf Course and bringing those ideas to West Palm Beach
• Whether The Park is a one-of-one or a blueprint for the future of public golf

The Park
https://theparkwestpalm.com

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
 📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

00:00 The why comes first
01:07 Back in love with golf: swing video, flow state
09:00 Professor's time fact: plants can tell time
11:25 Partner break — Titleist AIM golf balls
13:13 Brian Conley joins the show
15:11 The only non-negotiable: fun
16:31 Stripping out the norms — what "open golf" actually means
19:19 Coming up in golf, and learning to be different
22:42 Why golf is so afraid to test and fail
24:26 Pricing without apology: the Mercedes problem
27:50 Protecting the locals in a transient, premium market
34:42 The recruitment: a 20-minute tour, a January phone call
39:20 Does the model travel? Scale vs. replicability
46:16 Sustainability, philanthropy, and funding The Path
50:41 A 50-year city lease — and a new event teaser
52:17 Mission over profit, and living outside the box
56:20 Walking-first in the heat: caddies, loops, and the data
1:03:35 The Professor's cart confession
1:06:16 Serving every kind of golfer at once: culture and people
1:07:03 The kid in the tank top and the Augusta member
1:13:16 The fake version: how to spot an imposter
1:17:59 What keeps him up: culture and getting the word out on The Path
1:20:49 The parrot: the story behind the logo

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is in the business of belonging, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

A country that loves a drink almost never drinks on the golf course. That's not temperance — that's the whole story.

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Scott Warren (New South Wales Golf Club member and co-host of the Australian Golf Passport podcast) to explore what Americans get right and badly wrong about Australian golf — and why the difference comes down to a single word: competition.

The conversation dives into:

• Golf as a sport, not a pastime: comps 5-6 days a week, markers, no gimmes, and why nobody's drinking on the course
• Mixed-gender golf that works at the club level — and Scott's critique of the co-ed Australian Open
• Stableford done properly, technology, and the case for a rollback so a ball bounces again
• What Australian golf actually costs, from Barnbougle to top-tier club fees, vs. the US
• The fight to save civic golf in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide (North Adelaide, Moore Park)
• Under-credited architects Alex Russell and Mike Clayton, and Greg Norman's cultural weight
• Junior golf, the eroded pathway to the pro ranks, and the next five years of the Australian Open and LIV Adelaide
• A Bluey tangent worth staying for: Bandit, and the Custard connection

Connect with our guests

🇦🇺 Australian Golf Passport podcast — https://australiangolfpassport.com/
🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/ausgolfpassport
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/australiangolfpassport/

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
 📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com
 

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

00:00 Introduction: coffee, eating on golf trips, and why men host podcasts

08:22 Partner break: Titleist, New Club fittings, and finally putting the seven wood in the bag

10:02 Scott Warren joins: what Americans actually get right about Australian golf

11:48 The depth question: the 35-40 courses we romanticize vs. the ~450 that exist

13:41 Golf is a sport, not a pastime: why Australians don't drink on the course

16:43 A day at the club: comps 5-6 days a week, markers, no gimmes

19:59 Mixed-gender golf: why it works at the club and why the co-ed Australian Open didn't

28:28 Scale, technology and the case for a rollback; a persimmon what-if

29:38 Stableford done right — and Scott's issue with the American version

34:20 Playing from the wrong fairway: Tiger at Firestone, Greg Norman over the oak

38:20 Norman's cultural weight; Aaron Baddeley and the ones who nearly made it

44:15 Junior golf, pennant, and the pathway to the pro ranks that's eroded

53:36 The next five years of Australian pro golf: LIV Adelaide, the Open, the money

1:01:28 Civic golf under fire: North Adelaide, Moore Park, and who these fights really hit

1:07:31 What an Australian club membership actually costs vs. the US

1:15:39 Bluey, Bandit, and the Custard connection

1:19:09 Getting in: waitlists, proposers, and the quiet power of a members' list

1:23:24 The origin of the Australian Golf Passport, and golf media that won't just say everything's great

1:33:17 Under-credited architects: Alex Russell and Mike Clayton vs. the McKenzie romance

1:39:25 Barnbougle, King Island and Seven Mile: destination golf that's still affordable

1:43:01 Spiders, snakes, and selling the family on Australia

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

For fifteen years, Dave Zinkand's name never made it onto the scorecard. He was the guy in the field for Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw — Bandon Trails, Bandon Preserve, WeKoPa— learning to be an editor of his own work. Now the decisions land on his desk, and his name is the one members attach to the outcome. In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, Dave Zinkand of Zinkand Golf Design joins host Matt Considine and co-host Dr. Kevin Moore (aka "The Professor") to talk about what actually changes when you step to the front of the room — and why the entire craft might come down to a single word a stranger handed him at Port Marnock: angles.

The conversation dives into:

• Restoration vs. renovation, and the "sympathetic renovation" middle ground — including Old Elm, where Harry Colt designed a course he never saw, Donald Ross took liberties in his absence, and Dave's team finally built Colt's torn-edge bunkers for the first time, a century later.
• Reversible golf at Medinah Country Club: a nine-hole, par-31 course routed through a floodplain with two double greens — and the rare owner (Bill Cosgrove) who greenlit the fun idea first, before the "serious" work. 
• Saddle & Cycle Club: three acres of golf inside a Chicago social club, and the case for sub-three-hour experiences as the missing rung on the ladder that brings people into the game.
• Naturalized bunkering, native areas, and the honest maintenance math behind the rugged look — plus why a great superintendent's buy-in matters as much as the drawing.

Connect with our guest

Dave Zinkand — Zinkand Golf Design: https://zinkandgolfdesign.com/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zinkandgolfdesign/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-zinkand-a689a64/

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

02:14 Introducing Dave Zinkand 
04:38 The Professor's fact of the day: the octopus
07:35 Partner break — Titleist GTS drivers and MOI
09:02 From the field for Coore & Crenshaw to your own name on the door
13:40 Editing your own work, and being open to your team's ideas
15:11 Strategy and playability: the one word is "angles"
18:59 The Dreer Award — Hoylake, Rye, and learning the links
22:41 Firm vs. soft: designing angles for wet Ohio Junes
27:03 The superintendent relationship and earning buy-in
30:13 Rugged, naturalized bunkering and the maintenance trade-offs
35:37 Restoration vs. renovation, and "sympathetic renovation"
40:20 Old Elm: Harry Colt's intent, Ross's liberties, and bunkers built at last
44:17 Saddle & Cycle: three acres of golf in the city
49:50 Short courses, the "ladder of learning," and sub-three-hour golf
54:37 Reversible golf and the Medina par-31
1:05:02 What's different when you route a course to play both ways
1:08:28 The best reversible not named the Old Course: Doak's Loop
1:12:36 One habit that travels everywhere — and the Irishman's word: balance

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

Everyone tells you golf is an individual game. Zach Healy and Jack Larkin Jr. are quietly proving how much better it gets when it isn't.

The two former University of Georgia golfers — roommates for all five years, four-ball partners ever since — join Matt and The Professor to talk about the format that's given them a second golf life: USGA Four-Ball. They've made a habit of tearing up the amateur scene, and this year they finished T2 in stroke play and came a single shot shy of the championship's single-round record with a 63.

What the conversation dives into:

• Why the best four-ball teams aren't the perfect ones — and how one early bogey stopped mattering
• The 63 in the Arizona desert: six birdies in the first eight holes, cocktails in hand, trading who could one-up the other
• The unglamorous re-navigation back into competitive golf after college, and why you have to be willing to shoot 80 in a qualifier to get sharp again
• Getting smarter as you get older: swapping a 15-year putter for a "spaceship," and checking the ego at the door
• Gamesmanship inside the ropes — walking fast, talking a lot, and where the line actually is
• Jack Larkin Sr., the family blueprint for playing high-level golf at 65, and who wins when three Larkins tee it up

Connect with our guests

Zach Healy — 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/z_jhealy | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachary-healy/

Jack Larkin —  📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlarkin_uga | 💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-larkin-b738a4126/

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters:
00:00 One season, one complaint — doormen, summer, and the Midwest golf report
05:30 Meet Zach & Jack: how the Professor first crossed paths with the Georgia team
06:08 The Professor's teach: which clubs have hosted the U.S. Amateur most
09:16 Partner spotlight: Titleist, the GTS, and matching your ball
10:41 How do you actually qualify for the USGA Four-Ball?
12:35 Why the best teams aren't perfect
13:31 Steady Eddie vs. the EKG machine: how partners complement each other
17:00 The 63: six birdies in eight holes and a run at the record
19:45 Birdie juice — transfusions, screwdrivers, and desert superstitions
22:49 How they met, and five years as roommates
25:19 Walking into UGA and realizing you're not the best guy anymore
30:32 What makes a great teammate
34:29 Zach's shot at pro golf, and the pay-phone moment he hung it up
39:44 Jack the working man, and the hard road back to competitive golf
45:00 Getting smarter with age: efficiency, ego, and the spaceship putter
52:24 Jack Larkin Sr. and the family blueprint for golf longevity
56:08 Course selection, home-site traps, and football-weekend regrets
1:01:00 Match play, momentum, and a two-down-with-two-to-go comeback
1:04:30 Gamesmanship: walk fast, talk a lot, never cross the line
1:09:00 Why team golf makes the whole thing more fun

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

What does it actually take to write someone else's story in their own voice?

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with New Club Chicago's 2026 captain (and reigning club champ) Zander Nethercutt to trace an unlikely path: a 2017 essay about the Apple Store, a Facebook message six years later, and three years of near-daily phone calls that turned into Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius — the book he ghostwrote with Apple Store founder Ron Johnson. It's a conversation about writing as thinking, the discipline of changing your mind, and why the best clubs (and the best stores) are built around people, not product.

The conversation dives into:

• What a rainy monthly medal at Oak Brook tells you everything about a club: consistency, ritual, and showing up for guys you actually care about
• How Zander beat Ron Johnson in their first round together — and why that round became a book
• The decision to stop writing about Ron and start writing as Ron, and the dinner-party question that flipped the whole project
• Ron's first memory — and the unconditional love that shaped a career
• The green-vs-blue text myth, and why Zander now thinks his viral take got Apple exactly wrong
• Launch, deepen, restore: how the Apple Store was designed from the customer backward, and what golf retail could steal from it

Connect with our guest

Zander Nethercutt
📖 Amazon Book Pre-order: https://bit.ly/4esvV8Q

💼 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zander-nethercutt-0583b683/
📝 Substack: https://substack.com/@zander/notes
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zandercutt/|

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
 📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Additional Links:
✍️ Zander's 2017 Essay "The Luxury Network": https://zandercutt.com/2017/11/15/the-luxury-network/
📖 Preorder "Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius": https://bit.ly/4esvV8Q

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

03:11 The Role of Competition in Golf

05:50 Understanding the Role of a Club Captain

08:32 Xander's Journey to Becoming a Writer

11:18 The Impact of Writing on Personal Growth

14:05 The Story Behind 'Shop Different' Book

17:08 Lessons Learned from Ron Johnson

19:47 The Personal Journey of Xander Nethercutt

34:45 The Call to Retail: A Personal Journey

38:48 The Shift: From Writer to Ghostwriter

42:55 Revisiting Perspectives: Apple as a Luxury Brand

47:26 The Evolution of Apple: From Humble Beginnings to Iconic Stores

51:09 The Pressure of Leadership: Balancing Speed and Strategy

56:43 The Role of Action: How Doing Shapes Thinking

01:01:27 The Power of Kindness in Leadership

01:04:59 Cutting Stories: The Art of Editing and Its Impact

01:09:37 Lessons from High Performers

01:16:08 Self-Actualization through Golf

01:21:17 Redefining the Golf Experience

01:27:29 Finding Passion in Golf

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

Every golfer has stood over a putt and guessed. Erik Belgum learned to ask one question instead: where does the water go?

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Erik Belgum —  a design associate with Billy Fuller and Tom Kite, and right now he's elbow-deep in the dirt at Otter Creek in Columbus, Indiana — a Robert Trent Jones original being reimagined into cradle-to-grave golf. He walks Matt and the Professor through the parts of course design nobody romanticizes: the AutoCAD, the budgets, the order of operations, and the moment a green gets approved before it's actually ready.

The conversation dives into:

• How a kid pulling a cobwebbed pull cart in Iowa City ended up self-taught at Atlanta's Bobby Jones muni — on a $300 junior pass, with a five-questions-a-day limit from the pro shop
• The church pew that changed his life: ending up in a congregation with two working golf architects, Bob Cupp and Billy Fuller
• The real story of the Billy Bunker — how a highway shoulder, a McDonald's playground, and Dow Chemical turned into the industry standard
• The Cayman ball: the McGregor experiment Jack Nicklaus commissioned to make 5,000 yards play like 7,000, and the 13 dozen Erik inherited from his mentor
• Why constraint breeds creativity — bunkerless greens at Setting Down Creek, and slope as strategy at Otter Creek

Connect with our guest

💼 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-belgum-2a587874/

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/billyfullergolfdesign/

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
 📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

00:00  Cold open: back to loving chipping

00:35  Bermuda vs. bent — reading lies and no margin for error

05:48  Setting up the episode: who Erik is and why now

06:14  Fact of the week: reading before bed and the science of winding down

11:05  Partner: Titleist GTS — what the Professor got fit into

12:24  Erik joins; Otter Creek, Columbus, and the J. Irwin Miller / Cummins story

16:08  Cradle-to-grave golf: the Romp, the Pup, and the championship Otter

19:26  The unromantic side of design: AutoCAD, budgets, order of operations

21:37  Origin story: his dad, Iowa City, and a cobwebbed pull cart

24:24  A $300 junior pass and learning the game at Bobby Jones

25:50  Cart kid, the starter's nightmare tee, and "five questions a day"

26:50  The church mentors: Bob Cupp and Billy Fuller

30:34  Choosing landscape architecture; UGA, fall of 2007

33:00  His own game today: letting go of score, old equipment

35:14  What is a Cayman ball?

43:00  Inheriting 13 dozen Cayman balls from Bob Cupp

40:30  Billy Fuller's agronomy pedigree and his years at Augusta National

46:45  How the Billy Bunker was actually invented

51:38  Lessons learned: the green he approved too soon

56:42  Where does the water go — infrastructure as strategy

59:31  Setting Down Creek and how constraint breeds creativity

01:02:24  Favorite courses: Cuscawilla, Old Barnwell, North Berwick, Sunningdale

01:07:57  What success at Otter Creek looks like in a year

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

What should never change about golf? And what should have been changed years ago?

With the U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills around the corner, Matt and the Professor crack open the Rules of Golf and start drafting their own version of the game. From lost-ball penalties and green-reading books to arm-lock putters, divots, and pace of play, they each pick the rule changes they love, the ones they question, the ones they'd like to see, and the ones they hope survive forever.

What starts as a conversation about golf's rulebook quickly becomes something bigger: a debate about fairness, skill, technology, tradition, and what the game is actually trying to reward.

What the conversation dives into:

• Why the 2019 Rules modernization may have been one of the most important pace-of-play initiatives in modern golf
• The forgotten experiments with out-of-bounds penalties, including eras when stroke-and-distance didn't exist
• Whether arm-lock putters, oversized grips, and modern equipment have drifted too far from the spirit of the game
• The case for enforcing pace of play as a competitive skill, not just a courtesy
• Why "play it as it lies" remains one of golf's most important ideas, even when your ball is sitting in a divot
• The original 1744 Rules of Golf, "watery filth," and the strange rulebook debates that shaped the game we play today

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
 📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

0:00 - Intro
 09:54 - Rule Changes We Love
 12:34 - The 14-club limit and respecting the caddie
 14:34 - Pace of play, red penalty areas, and 2019's biggest wins
 17:21 - Flagsticks, green-reading books, and modern putting
 20:28 - Rule Changes We Hate
 21:32 - Touching the line of play on the green
 22:48 - The case against stroke-and-distance penalties
 27:59 - Would "distance only" make golf more fun?
 28:20 - Rule Changes We'd Like to See
 29:24 - Arm-lock putters, equipment limits, and putting skill
 33:29 - Driver heads, shaft length, and equipment regulation
 34:33 - Bringing back old rules and enforcing pace of play
 40:33 - Rules We'd Never Change
 41:15 - Why players should keep each other's score
 42:08 - Play it as it lies and the divot debate
 45:34 - The original Rules of Golf and playing your own ball
 49:08 - Double hits, dropping from the knee, and modern quirks

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

What happens when the thing you’ve built your entire identity around suddenly stops being your job?

This week, Matt and The Professor sit down with a friend and former PGA Tour player and Korn Ferry Tour winner, Chris Wilson, for one of the most honest conversations we’ve had about professional golf, pressure, performance, and life after competition. What starts as a conversation about Q-School, Northwestern, and surviving on Tour slowly becomes something much deeper: how the elite performers learn to let go, reinvent themselves, and figure out who they are when the score no longer defines them.

Along the way, Chris explains why bad weather can free your golf swing, why “be aggressive” is terrible putting advice, how Tour players spiral after missed cuts, and why the best skill he carried from golf into finance had nothing to do with golf at all.

What the conversation dives into:

•  Why miserable weather sometimes produces the best golf 
•  The hidden psychological pressure of Tour reshuffles and missed cuts 
•  What winning on the Korn Ferry Tour actually changes - and what it doesn’t 
•  The difference between linear and nonlinear putters 
•  Why Chris says he “never thought about pace” while putting 
•  The challenge of separating your identity from your golf game 
•  What elite golf teaches you about business, communication, and relationships 
•  How learning to “care less” can actually improve performance 

Connect with our guest

💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-wilson-98b112127/

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
 📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com
 

Connect with Matt & The Professor

🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/

📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/

Chapters

00:00 - Intro
07:57 - Chris Wilson joins the show
13:08 - Northwestern vs Ohio State
17:06 - The jump from college golf to professional golf
21:51 - PGA Tour reshuffles and surviving missed cuts
31:21 - Winning on the Korn Ferry Tour
35:29 - Leaving professional golf behind
42:53 - The philosophy of putting
49:18 - Why Chris “never thought about pace”

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community, and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in-depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

How do you become one of the oldest and now largest predominantly black golf clubs in the world without owning a golf course? By building around people and purpose. 

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and cohost Dr. Kevin Moore sit down with Ralph N. Paulk, president of Tire Town Golf Club in Akron, Ohio, to talk about one of the most meaningful golf stories hiding in plain sight.

Founded in 1950, Tire Town began at a time when few local clubs allowed Black golfers to play. Today, it is known as the largest predominantly Black golf club in America — but Ralph is quick to make clear that size is not the point. The real story is what the club has become: a community built through golf, service, youth development, scholarships, volunteerism, and a stubborn belief that the game can open doors when people are willing to do the work.

The conversation dives into:

• Tire Town’s origins at Good Park and Ridge Top, and why those courses matter in Akron golf history
• What it means to be a club without a course — and why that idea resonates so deeply with NewClub
• Ralph’s life in the Marine Corps, sports journalism, boxing, and covering legends like Arnold Palmer
• How Tire Town grew from a golf group into a broader civic force with junior programs, scholarships, and community partnerships
• Why representation at places like Firestone Country Club matters, and how Tire Town members are changing who feels present in golf
• The intentional growth of women’s leadership, junior involvement, volunteerism, and racial diversity inside the club
• Golf as a foundation — not the whole house — for helping young people build confidence, discipline, opportunity, and a larger sense of what is possible

Connect with our guest

🏌️ Ralph N. Paulk — Tire Town Golf Club: https://tiretowngolfclub.net/ — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/ralphpaulk_trib | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralph-n-paulk-0834817/

Follow The Bag Drop

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebagdrop
🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/thebagdropgolf
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBagDropGolf

Listen to The Bag Drop

🎧 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2xRWtUBJH8RazdLw14oaGH

🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/

Join the NewClub community

🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/

🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf

📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub

Support our Partners

🐝 NewClub: https://www.newclub.golf

🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com

🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com

Chapters

00:00 Introduction, spring golf energy, and Sweetens Cove

03:11 Introducing Ralph N. Paulk and Tire Town Golf Club

10:41 Ralph joins the show

12:12 Ralph’s first introduction to Tire Town

14:40 Growing Tire Town beyond golf

17:31 Women’s leadership, diversity, and intentional growth

20:23 Ralph’s path from the Marine Corps to sports journalism

24:54 Arnold Palmer, Akron golf, and stories beyond the scoreboard

29:23 Tire Town’s 1950 origins and golf access in Akron

36:58 Tire Town colors, Goodyear roots, and the Akron identity

40:20 From golf club to community service engine

42:19 Firestone, volunteering, and changing who feels present

46:14 Why golf works as a foundation for young people

50:06 Opening the doors without losing the legacy

57:19 Service, family, and the Marine Corps

01:00:04 Ralph’s writing, Charles Follis, and untold sports history

01:03:31 What Tire Town hopes to be in 2036

01:09:01 Closing thoughts

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community, and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in-depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.