The Behind the Brand Podcast

T. Ray Phillips, founder of Family Business Legacies, LLC, joins hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes on Behind the Brand. Since 1998, T. Ray has built his practice around one core belief: family business isn't about who's related, it's about culture.

In this episode, he unpacks what "legacy" really means for privately held companies, why comprehensive succession planning goes far beyond a legal document from an attorney or accountant, and why most family-owned businesses resist selling to third-party buyers, even when the money is good, because culture almost never survives the sale.

T. Ray shares two standout client stories: a service business owner who structured a patient, decade-long succession plan instead of a risky bank loan, and a manufacturing client near Noblesville whose creative internal ownership deal helped grow the business from around $200,000 a year to nearly $1.5 million in cash flow. Both illustrate his philosophy that well-structured, patient deals beat quick cash outs, and that delegation is not the same as abdication.

Beyond the boardroom, T. Ray opens up about his one-of-a-kind name (yes, there's a story behind the period), his return to soccer refereeing after decades away, his love of wild pheasant hunting in South Dakota, and his family's deep DePauw University legacy, four graduates and counting in a family chasing the five-generation mark some DePauw families have reached.

Before Randall Cloe ever set foot in a courtroom, he spent a decade in marketing and advertising, rising to Assistant Creative Director. In this episode of Behind the Brand, hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes sit down with Randall, owner of Cloe Legal, LLC, to trace the winding path that took him from graphic design to law school, and why a high school teacher's offhand comment about becoming a lawyer stuck with him for over a decade before he finally acted on it. Randall opens up about the career whiplash that pushed him toward law: losing his job the same week his agency lost its biggest client, and a gut-check lunch with a mentor that didn't go the way he expected. He explains how a decade of personality tests kept pointing to "attorney" long before he was ready to listen, and how his advertising background, reading client pain points and crafting solutions, turned out to be the perfect training ground for legal work. The conversation digs into how Randall found his niche after trying, and ruling out, criminal law, probate, and family law, eventually landing on cradle-to-grave legal services for small businesses. He shares his vision for a 25-year practice built around helping business owners launch, grow, and eventually transition their companies, keeping them thriving in the community long after ownership changes hands. If you've ever wondered how creativity and law intersect, or you're a small business owner thinking about the long game, this episode is for you.

What do you do when a psychology degree leads you to accidentally build a multi-million dollar e-commerce empire? For Angie Stocklin, the answer was everything, from midnight website builds to a $15M exit to Foster Grant.

In this episode of Behind the Brand, hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes sit down with Angie Stocklin, entrepreneur, angel investor, and Purdue faculty member, to trace one of the most unexpected founder journeys you'll hear. What started as a $5-per-letter affiliate website called MailFromSantaClaus.com snowballed into One Click, a thriving eyewear brand that dominated early Google search rankings, grew to 70+ employees, and ultimately sold to a Luxottica subsidiary in 2018.

Angie opens up about the milestones that made it feel "real", the first non-family hire, the first employee insurance plan, the matching shirts. She shares the hard lessons from her acquisition experience: what she negotiated fiercely, what she trusted too easily, and why asking "how do you see this working?" could have changed everything. She also gets candid about the emotional aftermath of exiting, the grief, the identity loss, and the therapy it took to rebuild.

Today, Angie channels her founder experience into nine angel investments, a teaching role inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs, and maybe, just maybe, a future startup studio for first-time musicians. This is a story about accidental entrepreneurship, intentional exits, and what comes after the wire hits the bank.

What does a chimney have in common with your home's foundation? More than you'd think, and ignoring it could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. In this episode of Behind the Brand, hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes sit down with Chris Cox, Founder of Chimney Solutions Indiana, to pull back the curtain on one of the most overlooked systems in your home.

Chris built his Indianapolis-based branch of the nationally recognized Chimney Solutions brand in 2016, bringing with him a background that started not in construction, but in rock climbing. That same comfort with heights and precision work has shaped how he leads his team and serves homeowners across central Indiana.

In this conversation, Chris breaks down everything from EPA wood-burning regulations and the difference between a wood stove and an open fireplace, to why a single brick can hold a cup and a half of water, and what that means for your chimney after three days of Indiana rain. He explains why painted chimneys are a hidden disaster, how creosote buildup leads to chimney fires, and what homeowners should actually expect to spend on a quality fireplace installation.

Chris also shares how annual inspections protect home sale transactions, why builder-grade fireplaces are a disservice to high-end homes, and the intrinsic value a well-maintained fireplace adds to a household, from cozy memories to real estate negotiating power. Whether you're a homeowner, a real estate professional, or just someone who's wondered what's really going on up on that roof, this episode is packed with practical insight from someone who truly knows the industry from the ground up, and from the rooftop down.

What does it really take to make people act? According to Scott Flood, it starts with emotion, and most businesses are getting that completely wrong. In this episode of Behind the Brand, hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes sit down with Scott Flood, Founder of Scott Flood Writing, a copywriter with over 40 years of experience helping companies find and tell their most compelling stories. Scott's career began in Chicago advertising agencies before he eventually moved to Indianapolis and launched his own business in 1995, where he's been crafting copy for a wide range of clients ever since. Scott and the guys dig into the most common misconception business owners have about writing ("I went to college, I can write!"), Why copywriting is fundamentally different from every other kind of writing, and how the best marketing speaks directly to the heart before it ever reaches the brain. Scott argues that even the most analytical decision-makers, attorneys, accountants, and actuaries are driven first by emotion and only then by logic. And if your marketing isn't built around that reality, you're already behind. The conversation also explores Scott's love of case studies, why they're the most underused tool in B2B marketing, and the method he uses to uncover stories that clients didn't even know they had, by walking in completely ignorant and asking every "dumb" question he can think of. It's a candid, practical, and genuinely fascinating look at the craft of persuasion, and what it really means to connect with an audience.

What does it take to bet on yourself when you have a mortgage, three kids under four, and no guaranteed paycheck waiting on the other side? In Episode 29, hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes sit down with Derek Magee, CPA and Founder of Magee Financial Group, for an honest, grounded conversation about faith, family, and the leap from employee to entrepreneur.

Derek's story starts where most do: heads down, learning the craft. After years at Donovan CPAs gaining wide-ranging experience in tax, audit, and the business side of running a firm, Derek found himself at a crossroads. A growing family, a desire for flexibility, and a fast-growing community in Whitestown, Indiana pointed him toward something bigger: starting his own CPA firm from scratch.

But Derek is quick to give credit where he believes it's due. From the very beginning, he and his wife surrendered the firm to God, and that peace, he says, has carried them through the uncertainty of startup life. Whether it's leaving the office for a family lunch two minutes away or simply not having to answer to a clock, Derek has found that the "richness of life" he was chasing isn't always measured in dollars.

He also opens up about the CPA profession's looming talent crisis, how he serves families not just as their tax guy but as a financial navigator, and the mindset shift that made him stop talking about starting a business, and actually start one.

This episode is equal parts practical and personal. If you've ever thought about going out on your own, this one's for you.

What do environmental health and safety management and scratch-baked cookies have in common? For Kevin Lingg, founder of Loaded Dough, they're both part of one of the most unexpected entrepreneurial journeys you'll hear.

In this episode, hosts Bob Paden and Adam Hayes sit down with Kevin to trace a career path that wound through automotive manufacturing, a GE acquisition, a lean manufacturing pivot, and three job losses, before landing in a licensed commercial kitchen in Indianapolis, doing what he loves.

Kevin spent 15+ years as an EHS manager before a spark of curiosity sent him down a new road. After watching a Bobby Flay Throwdown episode featuring Levain Bakery in New York City, he went home, tried to recreate those iconic thick cookies, and, despite the recipe not quite working out, stumbled onto something people couldn't stop raving about. What started as a side hustle baked out of a home kitchen became Loaded Dough, a growing wholesale and events cookie business that Kevin has intentionally kept a lifestyle business on his own terms.

This conversation gets real about imposter syndrome, the ego hit of losing a corporate identity, what it feels like to cold-pitch your first stranger (and get ghosted), and why Kevin believes doing what energizes you is the only sustainable strategy.

Kevin also shares his take on pricing, scaling (and choosing not to scale), and the happy accidents, like chopped chocolate and a chance encounter outside a charcuterie shop, that shaped the business into what it is today.

If you've ever wondered whether the "slow build" side hustle can become something real, this episode is for you.

In this episode of the Behind the Brand Podcast, hosts Adam Hayes and Bob Paden sit down with Jason Beutler, founder of ROBOSOURCE, to explore how businesses can practically integrate AI into their everyday operations. Jason brings a refreshing perspective to the AI conversation, it's not about the technology, it's about change management.

Jason explains his company's "Process Coach" approach, which treats AI like an external employee that communicates through email, chat, or text to help teams execute real work inside their existing systems. The key? A human is always in the loop. AI drafts the email but doesn't send it. It suggests the CRM update but asks permission first. This philosophy allows businesses to ease into AI adoption without fear of losing control.

The conversation dives into practical use cases spanning HR, finance, insurance, and sales, and Jason shares his memorable analogy: AI is like a really good cover band, impressive and talented, but it's mimicking patterns, not creating something new. That distinction matters when setting realistic expectations for what AI can and can't do in your business.

Jason also traces his own journey from aspiring Disney animator to computer science student studying early AI and neural networks at Taylor University, to serial entrepreneur and MBA graduate who launched ROBOSOURCE in 2010. Along the way, he emphasizes that the biggest barrier to AI adoption isn't the tool itself, it's getting your people and processes aligned and ready.

If you're a business leader wondering where to start with AI, this episode is your roadmap.

What happens when 73% of all privately held businesses need to change hands in the next decade, but most owners aren't remotely prepared? Brad Scoffin, partner at Advanced Business Brokers (ABB), joins hosts Adam Hayes and Bob Paden to unpack the real story behind the so-called "silver tsunami" and why the gap between what owners expect and what the market will pay is wider than most people think.

Brad shares hard-won lessons from a decade of helping business owners navigate one of the most significant, and emotional, transactions of their lives. From sellers who sabotage deals three days before closing because they haven't figured out what comes next, to private equity firms dangling inflated offers they never intend to honor, this conversation pulls back the curtain on the messy reality of buying and selling businesses.

The episode also dives into the rise of Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition (ETA), why the "buy a business and sit on your couch" fantasy is exactly that, and how AI-generated outreach is adding a new layer of noise to an already confusing marketplace. Brad breaks down why the simple math of multiples doesn't actually work the way most owners think it does and why running your business as if you could sell it tomorrow is the smartest thing you can do, whether you plan to exit or not.

If you own a business or advise someone who does, this episode is essential listening.

In this episode of Behind the Brand Podcast, hosts Adam Hayes and Bob Payden sit down with Daniel Crichlow, who is leading the next chapter of Indianapolis Badge and Nameplate, a company founded in 1948 that got its start stamping dog tags for three states. Daniel shares the fascinating history of the business, from its origins on Mass Ave to his father's purchase of the company in 1977, and now his own journey transitioning the business from a badge and nameplate operation into a full-service sign company.

Daniel opens up about what it's really like navigating a family business transition, why he considers himself an outlier, and how his relationship with his father has made the process remarkably smooth. He dives into the strategy behind the company's impressive 46% revenue growth, explaining why he walked away from the bid-work model and instead chose to build deep relationships with niche developers in senior living, religious institutions, and beyond.

The conversation also explores the threats and opportunities facing the signage industry, from AI's impact on design to the rise of digital signage and the technology race that Indiana companies can't afford to lose. Daniel gets real about why saying "yes" to everything nearly hurt the business and how becoming less industry-agnostic has been a game changer.

Whether you're a business owner navigating growth, considering a family transition, or just curious about what goes into the signs you see every day, this episode is packed with insight.