Formula 1 Chief Commercial Officer Emily Prazer joins The Big Impression to accelerate the motorsport’s hold on Americans with year-round content and venue in Las Vegas.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're joined by Emily Prazer, president and CEO of the Las Vegas Grand Prix and the Chief Commercial Officer of Formula One. She's helping transform F1 into one of the fastest growing sports brands in the world, leading strategy partnerships and fan engagement across markets from Miami to Melbourne.

Damian Fowler (00:30):

Emily's here to talk about the road to the last Vegas Grand Prix on November the 22nd. Now, in its third year, the Vegas Grand Prix turns the strip into a global stage where sport, entertainment and culture collide under the neon lights.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:46):

I love that. From the 100 day countdown events to new sponsorship models and digital fan experiences, formula One is redefining what a modern sports brand can look like, especially in the U.S. market.

Damian Fowler (01:02):

In past years, the marketing around Las Vegas, the Grand Prix has felt like a crescendo building over several months. What's been your strategy this year as you build, it's the third year, right? As you build towards those?

Emily Prazer (01:14):

Yeah, this third year, so I think the difference this year is we've had two years of a foundation to figure out what works and what doesn't work, but equally we've had our building open all year, so prior, well the first year we're obviously building the building for those that dunno, it's called Grand Prix Plaza. It's the length of three NFL fields, so it's not small. It's designed and built to service the Formula One Paddock Club, which is the most high-end hospitality that we offer in Formula One. Underneath that is where the garages are and where the teams hang out, so it's quite a significant building. When we first moved to Vegas, we purchased the 39 acres of land and have invested around $500 million in this infrastructure and so the difference I think is obviously the first year we were building it, the second year we were getting to grips with owning such a significant property in Las Vegas and then moving into the third year of the event, the building's been open all year and we built something called F1 Drive, which is carting.

(02:10):

We've had a restaurant up there called Fool and Fork, which is Formula One, themed food and beverage as you'd expect. We built an immersive Formula one experience called F1 X and so the marketing's ramped up, but that's because locally we've been able to activate since the day after the race last year all the way through to this year, and obviously how we market is very different depending on what we're trying to do, whether it's selling tickets or whether it's driving foot traffic to the building. It's all the awareness that we need in Las Vegas to continue to grow our fan base.

Damian Fowler (02:41):

The a hundred day countdown, that's important,

Emily Prazer (02:43):

Right? That was a big one. We always go big around a hundred days. We did a strip takeover, we made sure people understood that it was a hundred days ago. We did similar for 50 days, so we use those milestones to make sure, obviously Vegas is somewhat a last minute market. Some Grand Prix go on sale and sell out in 90 minutes. We see the most amount of activity from a hundred days through to November.

Damian Fowler (03:04):

That's very interesting. How do you decide which moments where you target your marketing strategy in that a hundred day buildup?

Emily Prazer (03:12):

Oh, well, we're very fortunate that the racing continues For those, again, that aren't familiar, formula One is a 24 race calendar, which spans globally, so we typically go big around the big races as you'd expect. We've just come out of Singapore where hopefully people have seen that McLaren won the Constructors Championship. We'll go big again around Austin and Mexico. They're both feeder markets to the Las Vegas Grand Prix and we'll just continue to make sure we've got major announcements, whether it be food and beverage merchandise programming all the way through between now and race day.

Ilyse Liffreing (03:42):

Now, can you also talk a little bit about the F1 business summits because you're also launching that during race week? Sure. How intentional is the idea of making Vegas not just a race, but a business and cultural destination?

Emily Prazer (03:56):

Sure. Well, if you look at what Vegas do around other major sports, it's not that we're trying to reinvent the wheel, we're taking learnings from how well the NFL have operated there with the Super Bowl, even around WWE where you see them extend from a one or two day event through to a whole week. We are very fortunate that again, for those that dunno, formula One kicks off on Thursday with free practice, we have qualifying on Friday and then on Saturday is the race. And so we are lucky that we actually have really good opportunity for shoulder programming and so it was a lot of requests coming through from multiple stakeholders saying we'd love to get the ecosystem together and talk about how we've shifted Formula One culturally into something very different. Obviously it's a sport first and foremost, but I think everyone's now seeing the change into more of a lifestyle brand and a proposition around how we're executing with some partners, which I'm sure we'll get to, but I think a lot of it has been around how we kind of talk about that strategy and how we've grown the sport over the last five years.

(04:54):

So it was very intentional, it's had really great uptake and as you'll see as we get closer to the race, we'll start talking about what we're doing kind of Tuesday, Wednesday all the way through.

Damian Fowler (05:04):

It was interesting you brought up the mention of partners and the fact that Formula One now transcends the racetrack and I for one say follow some Formula One drivers on Instagram. How do you play into that whole notion now that Formula One is this lifestyle brand and what does that mean when it comes to partnerships?

Emily Prazer (05:26):

Well, we've been really fortunate that we've, formula One was bought by Liberty Media in 2017 and the handcuffs were taken off per se, where social media was something that didn't really exist in the sport prior to that and the drivers have done a great job and the teams have done a great job of giving us access collectively to the drivers. They're all a lot younger than they have been before, so we've been fortunate enough to help them build their profiles through social, but obviously the pivot came with Drive to Survive. Everyone knows that that was a big leap of faith that Formula One took to be able to give behind the scenes access. It's a complicated sport that had traditionally been kept to a different type of club and we've opened up those floodgates and obviously we're reaping the rewards of that at the moment.

(06:10):

It hasn't been easy, but ultimately when you have the likes of Netflix wanting to display what we do, hopefully everyone's seen the Formula One movie with Brad Pitt, which is now I think the highest grossing sporting movie of all time and Brad Pitt's highest grossing movie of all time. So that again, is a great explainer if you take that concept, the strategy around all of it has to create this always on dynamic, which isn't just about the 24 race weekends, it's about how to have brand extension through partnerships 24 7, 365 days a year that's come to life through our licensing business, which I can get to and also our sponsorship business, that the thought process was we want to sign less B2B organizations more consumer brands, not because we don't appreciate, we are always going to have a B2B element Formula One lives in that space, especially on the technical side of the sport, but as it talks about how we penetrate the fan base, how we acquire new fans and how we talk to fans differently.

(07:06):

One of the big pieces of it was, well, how do we show up in every shopping mall, not just in North America, but globally and using the likes of Lego? You would've seen our recent announcement with Tag Hoya. You now go to these shopping malls and you see these different brands actually activating and taking some learnings from how the US sports do it, where everywhere you go you can buy a t-shirt. I think one of my proudest moments was being at the Super Bowl last year in New Orleans and seeing people in the parade wearing Formula one T-shirts.

(07:32):

I was like, that shows that the strategy is working. In addition to we acknowledge that pricing of Grand Prix is expensive, they're also places you typically have to travel to, and so brand extension through license partners has been really important. We have something called F1 Drive, which we'll be rolling out, which is the carting proposition I mentioned in Vegas we have F1 arcade, which is now opening up and popping up all over North America. We have F1 exhibition, which is a tribute to the history of the sport and we'll keep growing as we want to keep penetrating and explaining to those fans

Ilyse Liffreing (08:07):

Fans. That is really interesting hearing you describe just how different the strategy here is in the US too because F1 is such a global brand. How do you I guess, keep the brand though true to its global roots at the same time as also making it feel like America's race?

Emily Prazer (08:25):

Definitely not trying to make it feel like America's race. I think taking the learnings of how to speak to the audience we've acquired wherever we go, the benefit of being a global sport is we're global, but in each of those destinations we act very local. So when you're there, you very much know that when you're at the British Grand Prix that you're at Silverstone and there's all of the heritage around it, Monza, there's nothing more special in global sport in my opinion, than seeing the ZI on a Sunday run onto the grid with the Ferrari flags and what have you that you can't take that passion and bottle it up and just pop it into a US race. The US market is different, but if you look at how Miami has identified itself, you for sure know where you are. Same with Austin, where it's Texas and everybody is in cowboy boots and you know that you're in Texas and then Vegas takes it to a different level because we partner with our friends at the L-B-C-V-A and other partners in Vegas to bring that kind of extreme entertainment to life. So yeah, wherever you go, you really do know where you are and that's where I think the local element comes into play.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:28):

Has anything changed in the sports rights context in order for Formula One to really be able to create more social and organic marketing tied to the event?

Emily Prazer (09:41):

Yeah, I think it's that we've got the confidence to try different things and have given different types of access. So you'll see obviously that we have lots of short form content. Now we're noticing that this generation of fandom that we're trying to continue to excite wants to look at things slightly differently, whether it be through YouTube or TikTok. I think we're launching our first TikTok store in a couple of weeks, which I never thought we would be in a place to do, but it's a testament to where the sports got to. So I don't think the rights have changed. I think our approach to it has changed where we have the confidence because of the excitement around destinations like Las Vegas to shift our mindset. Like I say, we're not going to do it everywhere. We're going to pick specific places to test it, and Vegas for us for the last three years has served as that test testbed.

(10:28):

You'll see the collaborations alone that we do in the merchandise space we've not been able to replicate prior and we're proud of it. What we're doing there is giving us the confidence to deliver new partnerships across the sport. American Express is a prime example where they came in as a Vegas only partner, did a year of that, a year later became a regional partner, so they activated across the Americas and then a year after that became a global partner. So it's just showing that we can bring in these more consumer led brands, but also how we've shifted our mindset to be able to deliver against it.

Damian Fowler (11:00):

That happened very fast. It's kind of amazing. You touched on this a little bit, but the different audiences in the different markets. What have you learned after the first two years of hosting Grand Prix in the United States about American fans specifically?

Emily Prazer (11:16):

Just that you need to give them variety. They aren't going to come in and behave the same way as a traditional Motorsport fan that has been or has grown up with. The heritage of the British audience is a great example where I mentioned Silverstone goes on sale and sells out. We've had to adjust the product to make sure that we're very much catering to that audience and the programming around it, like we talked about, has been super important. People don't want to come just for one session, but they want the option to come and leave and go to a casino or go to a different show and what have you. So they're looking for all round entertainment, not just coming to watch the Formula One event, which we focus specifically on making sure that we deliver against.

Damian Fowler (11:59):

One thing that's interesting about Vegas as well is that it's a big draw for tourism globally as well and people fly in. So maybe that fan base is also kind of a mix of international and local.

Emily Prazer (12:11):

Yeah, well interestingly, we've seen the majority of our fan base come from Mexico, Canada, and within the United States. I think Vegas obviously is incredibly special that they cater to everyone. I think they have something like 150,000 hotel rooms that spam from five star all the way through, and so one of the things that we had to pivot from in the first year where we expected Vegas to be this really, really high end proposition was actually that we needed to cater for all different types of ticket package and hospitality package. So we've learned those differences. We thought that it would be very, very high end and mostly international. It's actually around 80% domestic, but drive in traffic and fly in traffic from other US markets in. Like I said, Canada and Mexico have been significant buyers of the Grand Prix and Vegas.

Ilyse Liffreing (12:59):

Very cool. I'm very curious what kind of feedback you've gotten so far from those fans, sponsors, broadcasters, anybody watching the sport in Vegas?

Emily Prazer (13:09):

Well, the sponsors love it because it's something different. Like I said, we put a lot of emphasis on the production. What we were all really surprised about was the quality of the racing. I think it has the most overtakes on the Formula one calendar, so that was something we weren't going to know until you can do simulations, but until you see cars going around the track in the first year, we didn't really acknowledge or understand how great the actual racing would be. So I think that was the biggest surprise around feedback and what the broadcasters and general audience have been quite positive about shifting. The mentality and mindset has been something that we're proud of, but it's all stemming from the confidence we've gained through promoting our own event.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:47):

When you look at success, what KPIs are you most interested in? Is it ticket sales or,

Emily Prazer (13:54):

I think it's all around halo effect for the sport ticket sales and revenue is obviously my ultimate goal. I'm the chief commercial officer of Formula One, so I don't think I can sit here and say otherwise, but brand extension and growing the fandom and being engaged, giving another touch point to the US audience when again, I mentioned Liberty bought Formula One in 2017, they were very clear that they had two very strategic objectives. One was growing the sport in the United States, the other was growing the sport in Asia and obviously Asia's taken a little bit longer for obvious reasons with COVID and what have you, but we're starting to see the momentum pick up again there. The US we heavily focused on signing Miami as a starting point as a partnership with the Miami Dolphins, which we're really happy with, proud of as they have shown us how to do it. Seeing how they put their event on before we even put on Vegas meant that we could really take their learnings. But yeah, the expectations are that we continue to grow it, that the production level remains incredibly high and that it's our tempo event in the Formula one calendar.

Damian Fowler (14:55):

Now, you mentioned the Netflix show Drive to Survive, and obviously there's been a lot of media around the importance of that show. Could you talk a little bit about the significance of that show, how it helps or not inspire marketing strategy?

Emily Prazer (15:09):

Yeah, it comes back to this always on point that I mentioned before, which is Formula One needs to be accessible for the next generation of fans to truly understand it and the next generation of fans care about the competitive nature of the racing, but they also want to understand the personalities behind the sport, and I think it gave us the opportunity to open up to be able to show who we all are. The technical terminology, the filming that went into that and the movie to be honest, has given us the opportunity to use that content to be able to explain what DRS means or what is the significance of each Grand Prix, what does it actually mean? So these drivers like the NFL, when a player puts on a helmet, it's hard to understand the emotion, but being able to get to know the drivers and the team behind the drivers, which is also incredibly important, has been really helpful in our marketing strategy.

(16:01):

But what it inspired was how do we talk to the different audience? Like I said before, you can't talk to that audience the same way that you talk to the 75-year-old fan that's been going to Silverstone since its inception. So a lot of it has been about how we change our thoughts around short form content and how we use different platforms. To talk to a different audience in different markets has just meant that we've had to learn how to engage and pivot from just broadcast on a Sunday to every minute of every day coming up with new ideas to talk to the fan base.

Damian Fowler (16:34):

That's pressure for sure. You also mentioned the different channels, and we do talk about a lot about how live sports is now available across many, many different channels and tech platforms are bidding next to traditional broadcasters. I wonder in the mix of things, and especially when it comes to the show and when you broadcast it, how important has that kind of explosion as it were of channels been?

Emily Prazer (17:00):

I mean we have been ahead on the curve on that somewhat for we are different. Formula One owns its own broadcast capability. We have an office or a building in the UK in Big and Hill and Kent for those that have been in London, been to Kent around London and it's incredible. We own and operate again the whole thing. So every camera, every fiber optic cable, everything you see at a Grand Prix is being produced by Formula One. We have remote operations at the track that go back to Big and Hill and we have 180 broadcasters globally. So we've always been slightly different to other mainstream sports in that regard because we produce our own show, which is helpful for us around sponsorship and what have you. But generally speaking, I think obviously the world is changing and we've got to make sure we keep up with it.

Ilyse Liffreing (17:47):

Looking forward, which marketing innovations, there's obviously a lot right now, but ai, contextual, programmatic, what excites you the most? Is there any digital marketing innovations?

Emily Prazer (18:02):

Yeah, I think AI is something that we are excited but cautious. Again, with the sport that's so technologically advanced, you've got to be thoughtful about how we use it. We also don't want to lock ourselves in one direction or the other. So we're doing a lot of work without Formula One has the most unbelievable roster of tech partners. If you think about Salesforce, AWS, Lenovo globin to name a few, they're going to tell us how to use AI to benefit our sport, not just commercially, but on the tech side. So we are very excited about it, not just from a marketing point of view, but from a just general point of view. How does AI benefit the sport? We're taking a massive amount of time to think about just general activations. I know that sounds kind of immature if you think about Formula One, but how do we bring different activity to the track outside of just races? I'm not sure if either of you saw what we did in Miami with Lego, where Lego built 10 full size cars for the drivers to race Lego cars around the track.

Damian Fowler (19:05):

I show my son that. That's

Emily Prazer (19:06):

So cool. If you think about the content that that created around marketing, that was probably the most viral thing we've done in a very, very long time. So our marketing strategy at the moment is about solidifying the brand equity, making sure that we deliver against our partnership objectives and that we continue to grow our social platforms. I'm not going to say that we're not technically as advanced, but the data capabilities is all quite new to Formula One. Loyalty programs are all quite new to us, so for us, I keep coming back to it, but it's really about figuring out how to engage with the audience and have something to sell them. Again, we're a rights holder that doesn't have tons of assets to sell ourselves. We license a lot out, and so really it's about coming up with these creative ideas to be kind of 10 steps ahead of anyone else.

(19:53):

And I think we are in a very unique space. We're very lean, which means we can be very nimble. So when we're making a lot of these decisions, it's me going to Stefano who's the CEO of Formula one saying, how do you feel about us trying something like this? And that's again, where we link the Vegas piece together with the broader marketing strategy to continue to keep everyone engaged rather than it just being like a technical marketing play. Obviously we do that day in, day out, but I think for us it's the confidence we've got now to really push the boundaries and be the first to do a lot of different things, whether it be what we're doing in the broadcast around all of the different types of digital advertising and what have you. I think again, if you watch the races, you'll start to see that we are trying and testing new technologies in that

Ilyse Liffreing (20:37):

Way. And on that note, we talked a little bit before about the timing of the race in Vegas. In

Emily Prazer (20:46):

Vegas. Yeah.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:47):

Because it's a new time for you guys that

Emily Prazer (20:49):

10:00 PM Yeah, we moved it forward from 10:00 PM to 8:00 PM which is great. I think a lot of people were struggling with how that's local time, right? Local time, yeah. When we first went to Vegas, the idea was that the timing would be in line with the boxing match or the show. So it wasn't done for any other reason than 10 o'clock on a Saturday night in Vegas is when typically you start seeing things happen. The difference being is that the distance or time you need to keep between certain amounts of sessions meant that it created gaps. So if there were delays that 10:00 PM could technically be pushed. And so we had our issues in the first year. We learned from those last year operationally delivered really well, but we still felt that it was slightly too late, hence the 8:00 PM start. So everything has shifted forward. We have F1 Academy this year, which we're really excited about, so that will, I think doors now open at 2:30 PM rather than four. So it means everything will be a lot earlier, but it's all for the show.

Damian Fowler (21:48):

And presumably you have a kind of global viewership as well, so that all impacts

Emily Prazer (21:53):

The trends. Yeah, I think it obviously will be beneficial to the east coast market, not so beneficial to the rest of the world, but we still feel good about the viewership numbers and what we're seeing. So

Damian Fowler (22:03):

The true fans will

Emily Prazer (22:05):

Watch you, right? If not next. Exactly. Hands always come through. Exactly.

Damian Fowler (22:08):

Alright, so we've got some kind of quick fire questions here to wrap this up. So first off, what keeps you up at night in the lead up to this?

Emily Prazer (22:16):

Everything in the lead up? The lead up. I'm not sleeping at all my first year as A CEO, I think last year it would've been ticket sales. This year it's probably just security and all round operations. So as my role has expanded on the Vegas race particularly, it's just we are opening and closing the track every three hours. It's not like other street races keep their roads closed for up to seven days. We are having to keep it open and close it regularly. You're in one of the busiest roads in North America, so we don't really have much of a choice and we don't want to impact the locals any further. So I think it's just being responsible for the logistics is scary.

Damian Fowler (22:58):

Wow. I agree. Closing the road down is like mind blowing.

Emily Prazer (23:00):

Yeah, it is genuinely mind blowing. If you go to Vegas now, you can see that things are still are on their way to being built and it's like, oh wow, this is happening.

Ilyse Liffreing (23:10):

That is scary. I'm scary for you. What would you say is missing in the US sports sponsorship marketplace that you would love to see happen?

Emily Prazer (23:19):

Ooh, good question. I haven't thought about the answer to that. That's a hard one. I'm going to have to sit on that one for a minute. Don't worry. Yeah, I mean I can't speak for, I can only really speak for my sport, but I'd love to have the same access to the teams that N-F-L-N-B-A have as the rights holder. We definitely don't get to just sell the team IP as we see fit. We have something in Formula One called the Concord Agreement, which means that we have some restrictions there. But yeah, let me have a think about the broader space. Sorry. I like that answer One hit me.

Damian Fowler (23:52):

That's a good answer there. We can circle back and do it again if you want, but I like that to be honest. Okay. So which other sports or entertainment brands do you think are nailing their brand positioning right now?

Emily Prazer (24:03):

I think the NBA and the NFL, they just do it so unbelievably well and they have fandom here. I've never witnessed in the UK you very much see the fandom around a specific team. Here you see genuine fandom around the NFL. And what I love as a Brit in the US obviously is I still can't believe how each of the TV channels cross-promote each other for other games. So you'll be watching Fox and they'll be like, tune into CBS to watch this game. And you're like, oh wow. They really do do it for the greater good of the league. We would obviously it's different. We don't have multiple games in Formula One, but if I think about it in comparison to the Premier League, you really do follow the team. If I'm a Chelsea fan by the way, but I would watch Chelsea, I wouldn't then flip channels to watch Man United in the us.

(24:57):

I find myself on a Sunday watching three or four games and I'm like, I'm not even your core audience. It has to be something to do with the marketing that it's always there telling me what to do, telling me how to watch it. And I really admire, maybe this is actually the answer to the previous question. I actually admire how good they are at getting in my head because I think about it, I'm like, what games are on a Sunday or what playoffs are happening in the NBA and I go to watch it because it's there. Whereas like I said, premier League, as much as I'm a huge Chelsea fan and grew up with it, you just don't seem to be able to follow it like that.

Damian Fowler (25:35):

Yeah, that's very interesting. Would you say you were an NFL fan before you came to the

Emily Prazer (25:39):

Us? No, not at all. Didn't know the rules and now I'm like hardcore

Damian Fowler (25:42):

Because of the marketing, I guess.

Emily Prazer (25:43):

Wow. Must be. They just got in my head.

Damian Fowler (25:46):

Amazing. Yeah. And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (25:54):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (26:01):

And remember,

Emily Prazer (26:02):

We've had to learn how to engage and pivot from just kind of broadcast on a Sunday to every minute of every day coming up with new ideas to talk to the fan base.

Damian Fowler (26:13):

I'm Damian. 

Ilyse Liffreing (26:14):

And I'm Ilyse.

Damian Fowler (26:14):

And we'll see you next time.

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Discover how Marriott International is transforming travel through personalization, commerce media and its new Media Network. EVP Peggy Roe shares insights on helping guests live a life well-traveled.

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Ahad Afridi, CMO for the Americas at Pladis, owner of Godiva, shares how the legacy chocolate house’s “hundred-year reboot” is reshaping the brand for a new generation of snackers, particularly millennials and Gen Zers.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing,

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're joined by Ahad Afridi Chief Marketing Officer for the Americas at Pladis, the company behind the Godiva brand, those premium chocolates we all live.

Damian Fowler (00:20):

We're diving into Godiva's bold new campaign, featuring Leighton Meester portraying the legendary lady, good diver, a modern spin on an iconic story of courage and individuality.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:31):

We'll talk about how the brand is trying to stand out ahead of the holiday season and how Pladis is evolving its brands for the next generation of snackers.

Ahad Afridi (00:40):

Let's get into it. It's a comprehensive launch. It's a launch of a new product within the Godiva range called Masterpiece, but it's also the start of a brand reset. And so part of this has an eye towards the now of launching this new product that's great, but also towards activities that are going to happen over the next one year. Godiva turns 100 next year, and so what we wanted to accomplish was the first big step in this centennial, what we call re-imagining of the Godiva brand.

Speaker 2 (01:17):

Yeah, that's a legacy brand for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:18):

And happy birthday as well.

Speaker 2 (01:20):

Thank you

Speaker 3 (01:20):

A hundred years. Thank you. Thank you to Godiva. On behalf of Godiva, I'd say thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:26):

Yeah. In that hundred, how would you define what Godiva stands for as a legacy brand over that century?

Speaker 3 (01:34):

Godiva is a premium chocolate brand. It's been called a luxury chocolate brand, but we prefer to call it premium because it makes it more accessible, which we can talk about a little bit more. It's a Belgian heritage brand. Belgian chocolates are different than the normal. 

Speaker 2 (01:51):

That’s good, in my opinion,

Speaker 3 (01:53):

Different than the normal chocolate milk-based chocolate, but it's just great tasting, high quality chocolate that you feel great giving to others as a gift and having for yourself as well.

Speaker 1 (02:08):

So just to ask you about this specific campaign, what made you wanted to bring that legacy as it were up to date? Is that the right way of putting it into today's culture through this campaign?

Speaker 3 (02:18):

Yeah, in a way. Let's say it's a hundred year reboot because turning a hundred, you have to celebrate your heritage, but reposition for the future. So it's about getting contemporary, bringing some of those traditional values and equities of the brand, but modernizing them for today and starting this, what we call re-imagining with totally new offerings coming over the next one to two years. We've started with what we call Masterpiece, and Masterpiece is a small chocolate piece that comes in a bag with multiple pieces in there, and it's great for sharing with others or treating yourself. So this is the first step. We've just launched this now it's in the market. In the next few weeks you'll see a totally reimagined what we call gold box and truffle box, which is high-end premium chocolate in specialty stores and on the giva.com website where we've totally revamped chocolate and got new offerings in that. So that's coming over the holiday period, Valentine's Day, there'll be another new collection coming next fall. Towards the end of the next year, we'll have some more gifting chocolates available that will be broadly available. And that's the start. And then after that, in the year 2027, we've got other exciting things coming in. So it's a sequenced campaign. 

Speaker 2 (03:47):

Good timing for the holiday season, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (03:50):

Exactly, exactly. Holiday seasons are important for us. Every day is important for us, but the holiday seasons are very important for us. Yes.

Speaker 2 (03:58):

Can you describe a little bit of the campaign itself and what viewers might see and experience as they witness the campaign?

Speaker 3 (04:06):

Yeah, I guess the first thing you'll see is a wonderful cinematic traditional sort of advertising, which has got some drama in it. It's got wonderful aesthetic, but at its heart it's a product centered ad and the product is celebrated in there, the taste of that. So that's let's say the hero piece or the centerpiece. But in addition, what you'll see is a lot of social content in different variations. You'll see different versions in digital tv. You'll see a billboard coming later, so some nice still art coming there. Now what's unique about this is we didn't look at it as just a specific campaign and a point of time. We look at this as a one year program where we're relaunching the brand. So you'll see Layton Meer again in the holiday periods, Valentine's period and throughout next year. Why

Speaker 1 (05:03):

Leighton Meester? I mean, I know Ilyse is a fan.

Speaker 2 (05:06):

Oh yeah. I mean Gossip Girl lover obviously.

Speaker 3 (05:10):

Well, she's a great representation of some of the values of Lady Godiva and Lady Godiv was the, let's say the initial inspiration for the brand. It's obviously called Godiva. So she, lady Godiva played a big role in the identity of the brand. But Leighton Meester is someone that we respect a lot. She's very popular, she's highly likable, she's multifaceted, great actor, musician person who has her own specific identity, and we think that's a great person to partner with in this

Speaker 2 (05:52):

Now premium chocolate, that space is a pretty packed one. How does this campaign really help the brand stand out, especially as we head into those important holiday seasons?

Speaker 3 (06:04):

Yeah, so premium chocolate is a growing segment within overall chocolate. So certainly chocolate's a very broad area, so many different offerings, and premium is a very important segment within that. And there are different offerings within premium. We like to consider Godiva as the high end of the premium segment. And there's something special. It's like in a category full of square shapes and round shapes,

Speaker 4 (06:32):

You've

Speaker 3 (06:33):

Got Godiva coming in with something totally different. And if you see the Masterpiece product, you'll see it's a very unique sort of shape there. So we pride ourselves in being kind of the premium of the premium but being accessible. And it's our goal to provide unique offerings that really tastes great and are cut above the rest of premium, but yet at let's say a fingertip away from desire.

Speaker 1 (07:04):

When you say relaunch, what does that mean? Does it mean like you're trying to reach new audiences, new consumers? How are you thinking about the people you're trying to reach? And I guess that does tie in with getting a celebrity like Leighton Meester.

Speaker 3 (07:21):

Yeah, it's important for us to connect with a broader range of consumers, younger consumers. So we're trying to get millennials and Gen Zs now, which the brand hadn't really targeted before and over a hundred year period you will have a core cohort which will age over time, and we're making a purposeful effort to try and reach a broader audience. Now contemporize the brand and our activities around doing that,

Speaker 2 (07:53):

Does that also have to do with perhaps the decision to call it premium chocolate versus luxury chocolate or what is that thinking?

Speaker 3 (08:02):

Well, the category is divine is premium chocolate, but people say good dive is a luxury brand and sometimes people talk about chocolate as being luxury. I don't think chocolate should be luxury. Chocolate should be accessible as well. And so it's really around that. It's not a conscious big effort saying, Hey, call us premium. Don't call us luxury.

Speaker 3 (08:23):

You can call us what you want, but it's just great tasting chocolate that is accessible. And our key point is luxury is often reserved for special occasions or milestones and that's certainly fine, but could dive a chocolate is also accessible every day. A little bit of happiness and a little smile is an everyday treat that we all have a right to.

Speaker 1 (08:50):

My wife reminds me of that every day. She says, should we have a chocolate? Now she's a millennium. She'll be very happy if I give her a Godiva chocolate. Well, we have them here for you to try. Okay, well we will just pause the podcast.

Speaker 1 (09:07):

We right back anyway. So just to talk about PLAs. So good diver is one of the brands within Pladis and which has a big portfolio of snacking. I just want to talk a bit more about the consumer you're trying to reach. What kind of insights have really shaped how you think about this new strategy?

Speaker 3 (09:30):

Chocolate plays a meaningful role in people's everyday lives. It's not something that's only reserved for special occasions once or twice a year. And so what we see is that people need, if you look at what we call a demand space map of consumers needs and occasions during the day, there are many opportunities in there for us to provide little bits of happiness, little bits of indulgence, a treat for yourself that is accessible and that's important for us. That's an important insight. The second is that chocolate is more than a product, but it may provide an emotional benefit. It might make you feel good, it might help you connect with others. It might be a reboot for the rest of the day, three o'clock, little piece of chocolate it with a coffee or a cup of tea or something like that is fantastic. So we've mapped consumer occasions to see that that's important. So those are really two very important insights for us.

Speaker 2 (10:38):

Curious, now that the campaign is out, I know it's early days, but are there any KPIs that you're really keeping your eye on or your hopes around brand impact that you're going to get from this campaign?

Speaker 3 (10:54):

Yes. Well, we have a broad range of metrics that we look at. You can bucket them around awareness and visibility as one. Engagement. How consumers get involved is to sentiment, what are people saying and how do they feel about it. And then importantly, fourth but not least, is the commercial impact. What kind of sales impact do we have? How's it driving the business? And we're one week into the campaign,

(11:20):

So we don't have any of those metrics now, but we will be tracking them. But what we're very encouraged by is just the initial, let's say feedback, what people are saying, how much people are talking about it and what they're saying about it. And it's very, very positive what we're hearing about this. And even in this first week, we're seeing remarkable engagement. People are even reediting bits of the ad and combining it with Layton Meer in other roles. It's a very scene in one of her previous shows, which she's very famous for where she says, lady Godiva is my only friend. So we're getting recut edits of that with snippets of the new ad. So consumers are sending those back to us.

Speaker 2 (12:09):

Now. You've talked before about how storytelling is very key to building great brands. Has this campaign changed how you think about what really connects with today's consumers?

Speaker 3 (12:22):

I think this campaign will confirm what we think is important in storytelling. And for us, storytelling has got to be something that captures people's attention, draws some interest, so they stick with it and is something that they'll remember later on. And we are trying to find new ways to deliver that and create that impact. But within that, we have to embed elements of the brand and the product experience that's so important in that. And this first centerpiece ad is a wonderful example of that because it's a captivating ad, but at the heart it is a product brand centered ad. So I think that's very important is to combine those things.

Speaker 1 (13:14):

When we look at the sort of bigger shift, and you've sort of addressed this a little bit, but I'm just curious, we are in a moment of time where people are a little bit anxious in some cases about the economy and where things are going. How do you market into that where you're talking about the importance of premium at a time, that might be something where people would think, oh, should I, shouldn't I? How do you think about that?

Speaker 3 (13:42):

Well, the good thing about chocolate is it is something that's important every day or can be important every day. It should be accessible every day. And whether the economy goes up or it goes down, it's something that's there. And available chocolates, you were talking earlier about luxury. God, IVA is not a Hermes bag. You don't have to wait two months, or sorry, two years to get that. It's something there that you can have. And if it provides that little bit of lift, that smile on your face, that moment of connection, that's something that is important for people regardless of economic conditions. And if they're having some moments in life or particular experiences in life where they need a little pick me up even more than it plays an even bigger role. So it's our job to provide the right offerings, make them accessible and be available for them.

Speaker 1 (14:45):

Does it signal anything about how you might approach other Plaice brands? I know they're very different, but just

Speaker 3 (14:52):

Yeah, we have multiple other brands around the world and some are chocolate, some are biscuits, some are cakes. And each brand has to find a way to tap into consumer desire. And our Pladis mission we say, is happiness in every bite. And that's what we're trying to deliver. And each brand has to try and deliver that in its own unique way.

Speaker 2 (15:22):

Now with a heritage brand such as Godiva, how are you still keeping it modern while staying true to its heritage? Because the snack worlds today is changing so fast, we have new wellness trends all the time, digital shopping, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (15:39):

Well, it's such an important question because the challenge for every brand is to be relevant today. And what got you there in the heritage is helpful, but it doesn't necessarily deliver against what makes you relevant for today. It just makes people notice or gives you a little bit of credibility or trust. So a big part of this brand, re-imagining it a hundred years is about that. It's about contemporizing the brand, making sure that we stand out in today's world, that we're conveying those benefits that meet the needs of today's consumers, that we are using the right codes to communicate Kate and making it easy for consumers to notice us, to think about us, to remember us to desire us.

Speaker 2 (16:33):

How do you think about the way modern brands are going about marketing? Are there any interesting tidbits or trends that you're noticing?

Speaker 3 (16:43):

Lots of littles. There's a study by work that talks about the aggregate, let's say the cumulative effect of little bits of exposure on your brand actually deliver more than singular big pieces of visibility. And if a brand can try and do that show up in different places, just little bites, little bite size bits of

Speaker 4 (17:10):

Content

Speaker 3 (17:11):

That comes across a lot, that is a great way for connecting and getting consumers to remember you.

Speaker 1 (17:18):

We've got these kind of quick fire questions here at the end. And what's one thing that you're obsessed with figuring out in confectionary marketing right now?

Speaker 3 (17:30):

I'm obsessed with figuring out how to connect with consumers in a meaningful way. And that is evolving. It's very difficult. Consumers are bombarded with so many stimuli that the ability to connect with them in a relevant way is so important.

Speaker 2 (17:49):

Outside of snacks, do you have a brand that you really admire for nailing culture and doing just that?

Speaker 3 (17:58):

Yes, I love what Heinz is doing. They're fantastic. They're a great example of leaning into your heritage, creating distinction versus other brands in a category that seemingly doesn't have a lot of variety. They are very strong at having distinctive brand assets that they tap into all the time. Make it easy for consumers to think about them, remember them, and they're great at tapping into culture. They've got great little mini campaigns under their overall brand platform. It has to be hez that keep the brand very vibrant. I love what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (18:42):

What's the best piece of marketing advice you've ever received and do you still follow it?

Speaker 3 (18:47):

Message delivered does not mean message received. And I think that that applies not just to marketing, it applies to change management leadership. And it's something that I think about a lot, especially now. So if you think about it from a marketing perspective, a brand manager's perspective, it's easy to fall in the trap that if you create something and you put it out there that consumers are going to notice it, love it, and buy your brand. And what we try and tell them is, this is not Iowa Field of dreams. It's not a build it and they will come. You have to really work hard at creating relevance and getting noticed and the odds are stacked against you. So making sure your message or your intent is received, not just delivered is very important.

Speaker 2 (19:42):

Very nice. One more for fun. If money were no object, what's a dream marketing move you'd make?

Speaker 3 (19:52):

So I can give you the traditional answer on top of those lots of littles. It'd be great to have some big mega programs. I would love to have, we're talking about Godiva today. I'd love to have Godiva in the Super Bowl. I'd love to have Lady Godiva show up and present the trophy, the NFL trophy or the US Open Tennis trophy or I'd love that stuff, but I'll go past that. It would be great to have Lady Godiva as a Marvel superhero movie and have her deliver chocolate to save the world. Something's going on and she just comes and gives a little piece of chocolate and everything's okay. And that's it

Speaker 1 (20:36):

For this edition of The Big Impression.

Speaker 2 (20:38):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns,

Speaker 3 (20:45):

And remember lots of littles. There's a study by work that talks about the aggregate, let's say the cumulative effect of little bits of exposure on your brand actually deliver more than singular big pieces of visibility.

Speaker 1 (21:03):

I'm Damian and I'm Ilyse

Speaker 3 (21:05):

And we'll

Speaker 1 (21:05):

See you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In late September, The Guardian launched its first major U.S. marketing campaign, featuring the tagline “the whole picture.” It’s a bold statement of intent from the 204-year-old news organization aimed squarely at American audiences, which highlights The Guardian’s brand of free, independent journalism.

In this episode of The Big Impression, our hosts catch up with Sara Badler, chief advertising officer in North America for The Guardian U.S., to explore the vision behind the campaign, as well as some early takeaways since launch.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:08):

Today we're joined by Sara Badler, the chief advertising Officer of The Guardian U.S. She's leading the charge behind the Guardian's first major US brand campaign called The Whole Picture, a bold effort to reintroduce one of the world's most trusted news organizations to American audiences.

Damian Fowler (00:29):

It's an ambitious moment for The Guardian with plans to expand coverage in New York and DC launch new US podcasts and connect with readers in fresh ways. The campaign is signaling a big step forward for the brand and for quality journalism in the digital age.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:44):

From that striking yellow billboard in Midtown Manhattan to new approaches in digital marketing and audience engagement, the Guardian is proving that serious journalism can still make a splash and drive real impact.

Damian Fowler (00:58):

Let's get into it.

Sara Badler (01:01):

The whole picture is really, it's The Guardian saying, which I think now is more important time than ever, is this idea that we are completely global perspective, we are independent and we have no paywall. Everyone can read us and we are focused and dedicated to journalism. And the whole picture really shows dedicated in every sort of way of telling the facts whether that is culturally, artistically with the World Cup coming upon us. And obviously The Guardian is a massive, one of the biggest soccer ducks in the world, if not the biggest, and really showing up in different ways the whole picture. And so I'm probably talking too much about this, but you see us on the subway, we did a live activation last week in the Meatpacking District and it's just really showing who we are and what we represent.

Damian Fowler (01:59):

Yeah, it is interesting. It's one of those things like the 1111 thing when you think about it and you notice it. Once I saw the campaign launch, then I saw it on the New York subway and it was everywhere. But I'd read that the editor of the Guardian, Catherine ER had said that this is the perfect time to reintroduce the Guardian to US audiences. And I know it's had great traction in the country for a while. Why is that? Why do you think it is the perfect time, especially in New York and metropolitan cities, why is it the right time?

Sara Badler (02:34):

I think now more than ever, we really want alternative news sources. And I say that mean the Guardian's been around for 200 years. We are not new by any means, but we are new-ish and more of a teenager here in the US and we have tons of obviously news outlets and a lot of them are owned and operated by billionaires. And there's all different things that are happening to them. There's consolidation, there's putting up more paywalls. And I think now more than ever, having something free and a truly global perspective is unique and something that we have.

Ilyse Liffreing (03:11):

And the campaign itself has such a striking centerpiece, the creative looking at it, it's bright yellow, there's words that are hidden. I'm curious if you can describe a little bit about that creative choice developed with Lucky Generals and can you walk us through basically the idea behind that concept?

Sara Badler (03:32):

It was not easy. I would say that it took our marketing and cross organizational functions a long time to come up with this with Lucky Generals to credit to them. They've been amazing and they've worked with us in the UK and now in the US and we also work with PhD as an agency, which also has been amazing. And it just took time of evolving of what our real story is and what we want people to get out of it. And I think the global perspective, free independent journalism that's factual with integrity and talking about culture in these key moments is really what we wanted people to understand. And here,

Ilyse Liffreing (04:14):

Yeah, looking at the media strategy a little bit, what was the plan for go to market and for reaching those target audiences?

Sara Badler (04:24):

And I think this is with every marketing campaign. I was actually on talking yesterday on a panel and saying there's no more, my marketing campaign is like a media plan. You've got a podcast, you've got activations, you've got events. So I think one thing to really think about or that we've thought about is how do we consistently beat a drum? And people recognize it throughout, not just one moment, but multiple moments throughout their day, whether it's on the subway through the activation and events. So that's something that we really focused on and I think we're doing that and we're continuing to do that, which I'm very excited about. We've done a few things. We did a fashion collaboration with Lingua Franca with the sweaters that we're really excited in the West Village going there after this and we're having a party tomorrow evening there. And then other things like we are going to be kicking off a residency at the net, which is super exciting with our editors. And so I think keeping the drum beat and showing up at these places is part of what we want to show. We truly are the whole picture.

Damian Fowler (05:27):

Before we get to the sort of channels you use, I just wanted to ask you about that event planning around media campaigns. Why is that an important part and piece of a marketing strategy these days? The idea of the building community around events?

Sara Badler (05:44):

Well, I think there's a couple things to that. I think obviously we're still coming out of COVID in the sense that people want to go out, people want events. I also think the cultural moments are just so important and especially for brands like ourselves who, for example, the soccer World Cup coming, which is every four years. This is a huge moment for us. And so I think planning around that and the sense of community I think is important in everything we do. Even here at Advertising Week, there's a sense of community. We live and breathe kind of the same sort of things in day in and day out. Exactly. So I feel like that's kind of something that we're trying to build and I think that if you feel a part of it, it's just so much stronger.

Ilyse Liffreing (06:32):

Speaking of the World Cup, can you say anything more about your plans there?

Sara Badler (06:37):

Yes. I mean, as I mentioned, we're one of the largest global soccer desks. We have a football weekly podcast that has been in the UK forever. I actually went to their event a few weeks ago in London and it was truly, when you talk about those cultural moments, it was one of those things that I've kind of heard about it. My husband's British and a huge football fan and listens to the podcast, but I never really understood the true fans was the strike on the tubes were happening of course while I was there. Just lucky, always, always. And then of course it's pouring down rain on and off when you think it's going to be beautiful and there's still fans from all over the world coming and it's not just for one team, it's for every team and for every. And so it's just like that is kind of the cultural moment. And so seeing that we're going to be launching that here in North America, which is super exciting.

Damian Fowler (07:35):

It's interesting. In the UK there's a very distinct sense of who reads the Guardian. I'm a guardian reader, I admit. And actually it was a Guardian contributor as well for a few years. But in the US do you have a strong sense of the Guardian readership? Is that galvanizing? Is that kind of coming together?

Sara Badler (07:54):

Yeah, I mean I think to your point of what was your media plan, and I am sure we had a podcast on with Vox that we did there and I think that we're still trying to figure it out, I would say because we don't have a paywall. We really think, and I truly do believe that everyone can be as a guardian audience at one point. We do tend to have different skews of older people that have identified in the past with The Guardian, things like that. But we're also starting to create, I think a buzz in younger generations and being out here and being on the subways and having these activations and the World Cup and other things happening. We're launching other podcasts and newsletters and things like that. We're really starting to grow audience across the board.

Ilyse Liffreing (08:45):

Are there any other channels that you're experimenting with?

Sara Badler (08:49):

Everything? We are launching video, podcast newsletters. I'm just thinking events like I mentioned the NED residency, which will kick off October 14th I want to say. So we're kind of trying to do everything. I think that's another thing as we evolve as publishers is that's just something that's kind of happening and we're really excited to be doing it.

Damian Fowler (09:15):

And I guess maybe touching on the programmatic strategy on the side of things, how has that grown as it were since you've taken this role?

Sara Badler (09:27):

Definitely. I am sure it was in the press. We were in the press with the trade desk as we launched the trade desk, which was kind of ironic obviously because I think we were, when I was at DOD Dash Meredith, we were the first publisher there and then coming to the Guardian able just do it again, but is we have really looked at our programmatic strategy and we actually kind of reorganized. And so the global programmatic strategy is actually coming out of the us which is very unique for The Guardian, which obviously everything is headquarters in the uk. And I think it really actually ties to our brand campaign of the whole picture and this global perspective is that we're really becoming one global unit. And I don't think it was like that before. I think it's been siphoned in different ways and I think now this is kind of the time. And so tying that back to the programmatic strategy is we're doing that as well. So we have one global programmatic team and strategy that we're super excited about and very good talent and we're just really excited to lean in as much as we can.

Ilyse Liffreing (10:33):

Okay, cool. So I know the campaign is so new

Sara Badler (10:36):

Still,

Ilyse Liffreing (10:36):

But what kind of reaction have you seen so far?

Sara Badler (10:40):

It's really been positive. Not that I was expecting any negative, but it's just been a lot more vibrant than I even thought it would be to your point, like the neon yellow and just seeing the signs and on the subway and just constantly seeing them. We also had billboards in different places and even the meat packing district, the activation we did there, which thank God it didn't rain, but you could take off different of the wording and we had different social media people that were activating on it. It was just cool to see. And it's also cool to see the street traffic that it gets. Also, one other funny thing is we did not funny, but we did the Lingua Franco, we did the storefronts with the Guardian gear in it. And I took my daughters last week and I was so excited and one of the sweaters was sold out and the salesperson was like, I was like, who was it? I was naming colleagues. I was like, was it Jane? Was it? And they're like, no, someone came in and bought it. And I was like, yes. So I think those are the kinds of things also that have just made it really fun.

Damian Fowler (11:50):

From your perspective as a marketing chief, are there sort of KPIs that matter most for a campaign like this? Obviously sales brand lift, engagement, how do you look at it? And I know again, to Eli's point, it's kind of early days to say for this specific campaign, but in general, what are the KPIs that you kind of track on your dashboard?

Sara Badler (12:14):

We were just talking about this, we were like, how do you quantify? And obviously my background and life of programmatic, I'm like, give me some data.

(12:25):

And I think that it's hard for us. It's hard for us to say exactly what it looks like because I would say when you quantify it from how many RFPs are we getting or is our revenue growing or how we're seeing that, but it's really actually now having meetings with proactive ideas of things that we offer that we couldn't offer before. So I think tracking our global footprint and working with clients in a way that's way more collaborative rather than, oh, you're getting this RFP and it's like a circle of something that you're checking a box, giving it to us. You saw this, I think from a consumer perspective, just having presence in all of these places and we know we're growing our audiences and we can see that. We do look at the data and research all the time on this, and actually every Thursday we're figuring out what happened this week that shows that we're still progressing. And I think the other thing that we have to remember about marketing that's been different is it can't just be a one and done thing. You have to talk about this, it launched last week, now it's ad week. What are we doing? What are we doing next week? And then what are we doing in seven weeks that's going to keep this going.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:40):

On that note, how are you tying your normal content strategy to marketing strategy?

Sara Badler (13:47):

Is there a tie in? We collaborate all the time on things. I mean, even with the sweater collaboration, we have our voices and our editors wearing these sweaters and they truly are the voices. I'm just in the background trying to make sure brands are aware and audiences grow from it, but they're the voices of The Guardian and they are, I mean, they lead with integrity and independence and we have to look at that. So that's also very important and why it's so exciting for us.

Damian Fowler (14:22):

Now, I know the Guardian has a unique kind of monetization, it has a trust, but I wondered if you could sort of break down a little bit the Guardian stands, the GUARDIANIST stands. That's a complicated thing to say on monetization between the subscription and the ad supported and everything in between. Do you think about that and how do you approach that

Sara Badler (14:45):

Every day?

(14:47):

I think about it every day. It is, it's very unique. I would say we are so lucky to be owned by the Scott Trust because we look at things and we do things like this to the whole picture that are very thought out, methodical, programmatic, they make sense. We're able to do that because owned by a trust. So we're able to say, we don't need to do or worry about something that's happening in Q2. We can think about what's happening in the World Cup or the next one and what that looks like. So that's the trust and that's what we're very lucky to have from what you touched on with reader revenue is our readers really invest in us. And that's kind of something that we can say and we can say that to clients, we can say that to marketers, consumers, everyone. We can really genuinely say people are investing in us because they want to read us, they want us to do well, and that's how we need to put our story out there. And that's how I think we overlap from an advertising and our reader revenue perspective is ultimately we're just trying to grow these audiences and for people to hear our stories.

Damian Fowler (15:53):

There's something nice about that, asking readers to contribute what they want. That model works to build loyalty. I

Sara Badler (16:01):

Expect completely. And that's something that I think it takes time. And that's why I'm saying I don't know our conversions for yesterday, but I do know that we are building somewhere that's exciting.

Ilyse Liffreing (16:15):

So you've had senior roles at Hearst, the New York Times and Doc Dash. What would you say are the biggest challenges even legacy publishers face when it comes to capturing readers today? Still?

Sara Badler (16:29):

I mean, we face all the challenges, so

Ilyse Liffreing (16:31):

Many challenges.

Sara Badler (16:32):

And I feel like I would say it's pretty consistent to your point of being at a lot of publishers that have been around for a long time and huge brands. And I think some of the things that, the struggle is obviously one, there's a lot, there's so much media to consume. It's like how do you make yourself unique and different? And in that way it's also, there's been a lot of different acquisitions and things that have happened, so it's kind of like how do you make people aware of who your true brand is and where it sits. I think those are, it also is the challenge of the times, meaning the actual time of happening where when I was at Daash and we were living through COVID was a very different time than what we're doing now. I would not suggest live events at that point, but then here we are and this is what we're doing. I would say at the New York Times, it was a place, it was right when elections were happening when I was there as well. And so I think it just, it's really, everyone's got their challenges, but everyone also has placed to their strengths and I think that's really important for publishing.

Ilyse Liffreing (17:46):

Yeah. Are there any innovations, maybe particularly in digital advertising that you see as giving you optimism for even funding quality journalism in the future?

Sara Badler (17:59):

I mean, this campaign has given me a lot of optimism. The whole picture has been amazing to see and also because I think it makes so much sense, which is really nice. I think that we also live, I live in a world where everything's just completely over complicated and just what it means is independent, factual and free. That's really, it just makes sense. And I think things like that show optimism in what's going on.

Damian Fowler (18:29):

Yeah, we talked there on innovation, which means we have to ask you a little bit about ai and that has been framed in some ways as a threat, but also an ally. Where do you stand on that?

Sara Badler (18:44):

I think we're in the middle, and that's probably the most boring answer ever. But it's good, it's fine. I mean, we are actively using it and try and figure out how and where it fits in different places, but it does not change how we report and our journalism.

Ilyse Liffreing (19:08):

Good to hear, good to hear. Now some quickfire questions for you. Let's do it. What do you think is one thing the ad market desperately needs but doesn't

Sara Badler (19:19):

Have? Oh my God, we have so much of everything. The ad market desperately needs maybe some better organization of what our products are and the different types would be something

Ilyse Liffreing (19:36):

Or streamlined,

Sara Badler (19:37):

A different streamlined approach would be something

Damian Fowler (19:42):

Less fragmentation perhaps. I dunno. Yeah, I dunno. I put words in your mouth.

Sara Badler (19:47):

I think one thing that publishers need is really to work better together to figure out what the future holds for them.

Damian Fowler (19:57):

And you may have answered this already in the podcast, but a publisher you secretly admire for how they're playing the game.

Sara Badler (20:04):

I mean, I think the New York Times has been brilliant in just how they've worked through a lot of different acquisitions they've made and things like that has been great to see. But I think all publishers have done a really great, the best that it's been a tough market and I think that even from a programmatic perspective and everything, we are just trying to do our best to get through it and also understand kind of what the world will look like quarter to quarter, which is very different. And it's not those days where you could be, I remember in past lives you'd be like year over year last year at this time and you're like, well, last year at this time was such a different,

Damian Fowler (20:47):

Such point you

Sara Badler (20:48):

Can't even compare anymore. I know. Yeah. So it's like, well last year this happened. And so I think that it's a tough thing for publishers to do.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:59):

What would you say is the boldest marketing risk you've ever taken?

Sara Badler (21:06):

That's a great question. I would say just because, just to go back to also the whole picture, I think this whole thing we've done also the collaboration with Lingua franca and the sweaters, we didn't know how people would react or the world would react or if they would react, but I think that because it's something you're just putting out there, we've never done anything in the fashion world at all. And I think that was kind of something that probably not the most scary but the most scary to me this week of doing that. I was like, I don't know if this is going to work. And we don't know how people react. And you want only positive things to come out, especially after you're doing such a big collaboration.

Ilyse Liffreing (21:53):

Nice marketing every week is different, isn't it? Yeah. Just depends on the day. Yeah. I

Damian Fowler (21:58):

Guess here's the last question. If you could steal one idea from another industry and bring it into publishing, what would that be?

Sara Badler (22:07):

Sorry,

Damian Fowler (22:08):

These are hard questions.

Sara Badler (22:09):

No idea. Well, it's funny, I was thinking, I was like fashion week, we just talked about fashion, but now we're in advertising week. So they've definitely done that. I would say, I dunno, I guess we don't have a Super Bowl or anything like that. That would be good. I think we've got enough stuff really. We should stop. Yeah, we should. I'm thinking there's South by there's can we do so many things? And I think that's one thing from my perspective that again, with the whole picture that we're really trying to do is show up in the right way where it matters. And if you try to be everywhere or nowhere, and I think that's really important for us to think about. And so trying to do something that you haven't done yet, you should definitely do, but it should feel natural.

Ilyse Liffreing (22:55):

Sara, we're recording an advertising week and I'm curious if you have a major takeaway that you could share with us.

Sara Badler (23:03):

Okay, so I mentioned day two, we're on day two and I think it does feel bigger than it's ever been or busier for sure. And it feels like there's so many things going on. The other thing though is I think because there are so many of these things that it also feels like in this world right now, we're doing a lot of in-house things, if that makes sense. We have tons of our team in town this week. I know that when I talk to clients or agencies, they're doing a lot of internal stuff. So it feels like that's a big something that's changed a little bit.

Ilyse Liffreing (23:40):

I would say there's definitely a lot more people I think this week then than I remember in years past at least.

Sara Badler (23:46):

But even every time I talk to someone, they're like, well, we have a lot of internal stuff going on. And I think that there's a lot going on. So I think that that's also something that is happening that maybe didn't happen as often.

Damian Fowler (24:05):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (24:07):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by Love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (24:14):

And remember,

Sara Badler (24:15):

We have tons of, obviously news outlets and a lot of them are owned and operated by billionaires, and there's all different things that are happening to them. There's consolidation, there's putting up more paywalls. And I think now more than ever, having something free and a truly global perspective is unique and something that we have.

Damian Fowler (24:37):

I'm Damian

Sara Badler (24:37):

And I'm Ilyse, and we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Mike O’Sullivan (Co-Founder of Sincera and GM of Product at The Trade Desk) sits down with Michael Rubenstein, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Firsthand, for a candid founder-to-founder conversation about innovation, risk, and leadership in the age of AI.

From DoubleClick to AppNexus to Firsthand, Michael shares lessons from decades at the forefront of ad tech: what it means to build with purpose, how to hire and scale teams that thrive, and why the next wave of growth will come from brands who embrace AI directly.

If you care about founder stories, AI, ad tech innovation, and building products that last, this episode offers a rare inside look from two builders shaping the future of the open internet.

Watch their conversation: https://youtu.be/ishJspl-prw?si=Z29LpPSjK_fyUlqs

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On the latest episode of The Big Impression podcast, Samsung’s Allison Stransky discusses the company’s new AI-focused campaign, “Your Home Speaks You.” She explains the importance of conveying how Samsung’s AI-powered home-automation features benefit the consumer. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're joined by Allison Stransky, Chief Marketing Officer at Samsung Electronics America. She's led brand strategy at global companies like Google and L'Oreal, and now drive Samsung's vision for the connected home.

Damian Fowler (00:24):

Allison's here to talk about Samsung's new campaign Your Home Speaks You launched in June. The campaign highlights the joy of a home that feels more personal, showing how Samsung's connected products and Galaxy AI come together in everyday moments. Think a washer dryer that finishes a load in 68 minutes or a fridge that tells you to order some more cheese.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:47):

I love that idea. It's an omnichannel campaign built on real consumer insights about what homeowners actually need and how connected tech can save time, reduce stress, and make life a little easier.

Damian Fowler (01:01):

So let's get into it.

Ilyse Liffreing (01:08):

So Alison, the campaign Your Home speaks to you. It really redefines the home, not just as a space but as a feeling. And for the first time, it actually connects all of Samsung's various products into one overall story where anybody can pair these devices throughout the home together. Can you discuss the campaign and then how you translated that vision into the creative?

Allison Stransky (01:31):

Absolutely. So the initial insight behind your home speaks you is that we are all unique individuals and so are our homes, but also our homes are unique reflection of ourselves. And this actually went back to a campaign that we launched in 2024, but in 25 we took a really exciting evolution, which as you said was the first time we made a wide reaching video, digital video campaign featuring multiple Samsung products working together because we wanted to really convey to consumers who know consumers who don't know how much more you can get out of the Samsung ecosystem when you connect it all through smart things and what is also net new, how Galaxy AI takes those benefits really to the next level. So we are firm believers in how incredible our products are and how amazing they can all be when they work together, but we needed to translate that into something really tangible and relatable.

(02:38):

So that's where it came to life. In this campaign we featured four different hero products, the two TVs, combo washer dryer and the Bespoke fridge in sequence with a number of mobile products because that is where a lot of the real benefits of the interoperability can start to happen and then looked for real emotional insights to drive the storyline. So to turn that idea into a campaign, it all starts with the data. So we wanted to start by understanding the features and the benefits that our consumers like the most about our products and how our products work together. And then we took that data and turned them into insights. So to give you an example of how that worked, I'll start with the bespoke combo washer dryer. This is a new product that we launched in 2025. It does a wash in a dry all in one cycle in 68 minutes.

(03:38):

So this is the fastest combo washer dryer on the market, which is great. Fast speed is a great benefit, but when you connect to smart things and you start working with all of your devices together, you can really take your efficiency to the next level through things like notifications. But the human insight that comes into play is imagine that you are coming home and have to get ready for a date and you find that your dog is sitting on the clothes that you laid out for your date and your now brief tells you you have to be out the door in 75 minutes. Well, Samsung saves the day or the date night with the combo washer dryer and the sequence of notifications so you can get ready to go. And that's how really we thought about the whole campaign of bringing it together is it started with a product, it's made better by smart things in ai, but it's really a data-driven human insight that takes the whole thing and brings it to life.

Ilyse Liffreing (04:34):

Oh yeah, that's really cool. I know it took me two and a half hours to do laundry the other night.

Damian Fowler (04:39):

That's way too long.

Ilyse Liffreing (04:41):

And your own research has found that 76% of households already own at least one SAM product and then 27% have three or more. So how did those data insights actually help you shape the campaign?

Allison Stransky (04:56):

Well, that is data that we're really proud of. We are so proud to be in 76% of households, but then when you look at the drop off, between 76% have at least one Samsung product and 27% have three or more. We really believe in the benefits that are unlocked when all of our products are working together. So in theory, only 27% of households are realizing this state that we know can be possible. So it is one of the things that has driven this is like it is important for you to unlock all of the features and all of the capabilities of whether it's your appliance, your TV or your phone. They really are better together. So that was one of the drivers behind this campaign. Another one of the drivers is we launched Galaxy AI in 2024 and now we've been over this hurdle of there is strong awareness of Galaxy AI and AI in general of what it is and what it can do, but we need to help consumers along on this journey of seeing all the benefits that AI can unlock.

(06:01):

So we talk about Galaxy AI as being your true AI companion. And what we mean by that is we've moved beyond automation and it's now personalized predictive, anticipating your needs and offering you meaningful personal insights. And that's something else that we want to start telling the story of because that's the thing that's going to get you to say, oh my gosh, my phone can do so much more and now enter smart things. My phone and my fridge or my phone and my TV can help me start building this really amazing connected lifestyle that's going to help me insert the benefit that isn't relevant to you. Is it save time? Is it have a better movie watching experience? There's so many things that this can enable that. That was, it was those things that added up to really inspiring us to create this campaign.

Damian Fowler (06:53):

I'm really interested to hear a little bit more about the style and the tone of the aesthetic of this campaign, how it aligns this futuristic vision with very human insight.

Allison Stransky (07:03):

We always think not just about the tech itself but the design. So it really goes back to the product and how we represent our products because it is not just about having this functional high tech TV, refrigerator, et cetera, but we want them to be designed forward and fit them beautifully into your house. So that's our baseline philosophy as it came to this campaign. We want to represent how beautiful and designed for the products are, but also Samsung, the brand as a whole. So we are joyful, colorful, open, inclusive as a brand. And so to get that feeling and to bring that to life, we worked with an amazing team. Crispin was our creative partner and Mathy was our director duo partner who really brought that vision to life. So Crispin was not new for us. We have been working with them since 2024, and so they really get and feel our brand.

(08:05):

But Mathy is a creative team that we and the Crispin team have really admired and wanted to have an opportunity to work with because we felt like they really get it, they get Samsung, they get what they're trying to do and then they bring their own incredible spin to it. So two of the things that I loved about them, and I will say they all this team really surpassed expectations. One was their approach to color. Like I said, we are a design forward colorful brand and they really captured a very modern look and feel. But then secondly, they have an incredible attention to detail that I hope our viewers pick up on when they watch the spots and see all these tiny little things that came together. One of my favorite examples of that was in our neo QLED eight K TV spot. The storyline was that this couple is obsessed with westerns and they want to have the most immersive TV western viewing experience, but their whole house is designed like Western fans and there's all this little attention to detail in tiny hats and cowboy boots that they strategically placed everywhere in the spot.

(09:20):

And when we saw it come to life, we just, like I said, it surpassed our expectations and we know we picked the right team.

Damian Fowler (09:31):

Allison, I'd really love to ask you a little bit more about the actual media buying strategy behind the campaign. Can you elaborate?

Allison Stransky (09:37):

Absolutely. So it's really special to work at this brand. A lot of CMOs have a lot of love for their brand. I've had love for Samsung before I worked here, so I feel fortunate to have this seat and everything that we create is so it's thought out from the product perspective, from the communication perspective, from the media buying perspective because we want to make sure, one, you understand what we are trying to do. Two, we reach the right people. Something else that is unique about working in a brand that has touched this many households is one of the reasons we've done that is we have so many products and part of that is getting the right message to the right person at the right time. Because if you're going back to school and you're in college shopping mode, I have really relevant phones and laptops and tablets that are going to monitors that will enhance your back to school experience.

(10:40):

I don't want to serve you a refrigerator ad at that time. And so that's where end to end, every detail needs to be thought out because even the targeting needs to get the right spot to the right people. As I talked a little bit about, this is year two of the campaign in the first year we created stories and vignettes around Are you a workout from Home Maven? Are you a home chef? And when I saw the corporate, the boss lady served to me, I was like, this is all working. The media is working out is the one that I've also been served.

Ilyse Liffreing (11:16):

Yeah, it seems to me like it's a truly omnichannel kind of strategy as well, and that kind of fits in with the overall smart things theme in a sense.

Allison Stransky (11:25):

It does. I appreciate that connection because smart things is one of the things that's really special about the Smart Things app is that it is an open ecosystem. It works with everything that is built on the matter platform. So it's not just for Samsung products. And not only is that in line with our value system of openness and inclusion, but that helps our consumers and smart things app users reach another level of benefits and impact. And what I mean by that is health is a big area, for example, that we focus on and sleep within health is critical, but part of your sleeping environment is are your shades open or closed? How well lit or not well lit is your bedroom. And we want smart things to be part of making that perfect sleeping environment. But we don't make lights, we don't make curtains, but we are very happy that you can connect smart lights and smart curtains to your smart things app and with Samsung products create this holistic environment where you can sleep better or wake up better. And it's all a part of our vision of Look, we want to add value to your life. We want to be a very useful, helpful brand.

Ilyse Liffreing (12:39):

And on that note, let's dive into some of the insights a little bit because you mentioned you wanted to make a smart things ecosystem feel more intuitive and easy to access. So what were some of those signals or behavior changes that you're watching for to see if this message lands?

Allison Stransky (12:54):

It starts with the KPIs. So we are looking to understand is registration smart things registration increasing? Because the very first step is hook up a product, begin to use the app, start to see what you can get out of that. But from there we want to see that multi-device accounts are also growing because if you have multiple devices connected now I'm starting to get an indication that you are seeing more benefits than, look, you can use your phone as a remote control to turn your TV on and off. That's great. I actually do that a lot in my house. But the sleep benefits, the health benefits, the full ecosystem really gets better when there are multiple products. So the first indication is sign up and start using it. The second is how many products are on there because now I know that you're starting to get a little bit more engaged and we're looking at signals outside of smart things usage as well.

(13:52):

So for example, only a few weeks into this campaign running, we saw a 55% increase in smart things searches versus year ago. And that was really exciting to us because that means there's a lot of curiosity around the app and what the app can do. And concurrently we had created a set of assets that we're calling smart things 1 0 1 and they are a series of literally 101 videos that were designed to be very SEO forward and answer questions that we either know people are asking or we believe people are asking about the app. So we've created this process whereby you see the campaign, if you're not familiar with smart things, you might go, oh, what is this? Let me learn some more. And now when you go out there, there's a ton more video to take you on your own personal journey that starts with what is smart things all the way down to, okay, I get it, I'm hooked up. How can I create this? My refrigerator helps me, meal plan experience. It's a number of signals and behavior changes that we're looking at along the way.

Damian Fowler (14:58):

It makes sense that there's an educational component to this campaign that runs alongside it because I'm curious, when people hear your home speaks to you, they may say, well, what does that mean? What does it mean to me? I mean maybe this tech is even intimidating to some people.

Allison Stransky (15:12):

Yeah, I think it is fair that this is not second nature to us yet. We are fascinated by each generation of new people who are born are going to be much more tech native than the generation before them. But right now our consumers are really, you're kind of in the millennial and exes are buying a lot of the houses that the appliances are speaking to. Zs are buying phones and certainly TVs but not as many of them are homeowners. So we do think it's really important that we make that journey as seamless and easy as possible because once a lot of the benefits are literally set it and forget it and you can go and continue on your life, but we want to make sure end to end you are supported in your journey. So even outside of this campaign, we are piloting a lot of things whereby our service line people, you can call in and get tech support to set up smart things or we foresee a future state where you can set it up, you can have somebody come in and set it up in your home so that it is all that much easier and ready to go.

Damian Fowler (16:25):

Now you talk about it. I do think maybe this is a generational thing as well. I suppose if people aren't homeowners serving them, an ad for a fridge may not be that relevant. So you must see an interesting breakdown across generational demographics.

Allison Stransky (16:39):

We do it is there's a wide range of to be in 76% of households, we have a lot of wide range of consumers too. We also have ranges within our products. We have, not all of our refrigerators have screens, but we sure do love the ones that do. But what we found is through a wide portfolio mix, so many people can see the benefits that they're looking for out of our products. And then it's really our responsibility to make our marketing work harder, to make our media dollars more impactful to and our agency partners as well to get the right content to the right people at the right time

Damian Fowler (17:22):

On the right phone.

Ilyse Liffreing (17:24):

Yeah, that is very interesting because people are using even search and AI chatbots for their questions and how to get those answers. So I think it's a great strategy. But looking at the big picture now, how do you see AI continuing to evolve the role that Samsung plays in people's homes?

Allison Stransky (17:42):

We really believe that AI is going to continue to be more prevalent, more ubiquitous, more important all of our lives. So AI is not new and we've been innovating in AI for more than 10 years. But what has changed is a lot of the LLMs and the media and a lot of this honestly just talking about it have put these benefits and the power of it on consumer's minds. So now we're in the early stages of, okay, the benefits are here. Let's start with helping you understand what Galaxy AI is and then how AI can make a difference on your refrigerator and your tv. And we are seeing this journey, and to be honest, AI is moving so fast that we could be there in a year, we could be there in three. We don't really know how ready consumers are going to be to jump in with us on all of these things, but the innovation roadmap is there and the communication roadmap is there to say, all right, we know it's going to be here and what we know, it's here to stay.

(18:44):

Let's just take you on this journey. Let's start with the features and the benefits that you have seen the most value in. So for example, a lot of people are using things like circle to search and photo editing capabilities because that is really valuable, but also on the fun side of adoption. So we've worked those into our campaigns. Another one that as an example from this particular smart things campaign in the Frame Pro spot, we showcase for the first time the frame has always been our art tv. Normally we're showing how you can put Van Gogh on your wall because the insight behind the frame is that your TV shouldn't be a black box when you're not using it. Well now it can display family art, meaning photos that you've taken and edited to take that guy in the background out that you wished wasn't in there. And you can see all of this come to life, but this is still the early stages of what the AI journey is about. It's going to be become even more automated and assistive as we get into this stage of multimodality all of your devices and apps connecting and doing more things for you. But we feel it's our responsibility to help you understand what that looks like, not just how it works, but what's the end benefit to you. And then you'll be excited to come along with us on that journey.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:02):

Now what about outside of the home? Do you envision a future where the smart things ecosystem even extends maybe in the cars travel or public spaces, maybe even as part of a new innovation roadmap?

Allison Stransky (20:15):

Yes, we would. It does exist a little bit today and we'd be so excited to see even more so we did just recently launch Smart Things Pro, which is an enterprise solution for smart things. So right now business owners can see a lot of benefits like controlling whole hotels. One of our favorite examples that we shared at CES this year was that smart things pro can control your cruise ship. Not a lot of us are in market to buy cruise ships, but showing the power of what it can do and how it exists is really exciting. And I think we envision a world where smart things pro from a business outside of the home perspective can connect to smart things on your device and on your app. And we foresee a roadmap of when you show up at a hotel, you can have your room set to the temperature you like, which not just makes it for a more comfortable experience for you, but could help a whole hotel be more sustainable by not blasting the air conditioning for everybody who doesn't want it to be 62 degrees or whatever it feels like it's set at through smart things.

(21:22):

And Hyundai, your EV can be your whole house generator. So there's cool stuff in the works that we are working on getting the news out there to our consumers because there's just so many benefits. We also kind have to start by thinking about the bigger ones, which back to this campaign, the things that people want every day are make my life easier, help me save time, help me make my home more enjoyable with my family.

Damian Fowler (21:51):

Do you think that there's any way that this campaign can help move the needle in the direction of broader acceptance of say, AI and automation?

Allison Stransky (22:00):

I think it's going to play a part in that we have so much within Samsung that we are talking about in the AI space that I think Samsung as a whole is a massive contributor to shifting the AI conversation. So fortunately there are some partners out there like Chat, GP, GT and Meta are also continuing the narrative and bringing up total awareness. So we're very excited for the more AI conversation that happens, the more interest and curiosity there is in AI benefits. And then we are here with on-device AI on our smartphones and televisions and appliances, our responsibility when you come now you know what AI is. Now our responsibility is to help you see the benefit that you can get from not just individual Samsung products but how they all work together. And I think we are at this really exciting tipping point for not just tech companies but consumer companies everywhere to help all consumers say, look, we're moving into the AI generation. It's here to stay. We're going to do it together. You find the AI solutions that are right for you. And that's how I think we'll all come along on this journey.

Damian Fowler (23:14):

I just want to know, can I ask my fridge to tell me when I need to order some new cheese?

Allison Stransky (23:18):

Cheese? I would prioritize cheese too.

Damian Fowler (23:21):

Okay. We've got some quickfire questions now that EIS is going to kick off.

Ilyse Liffreing (23:25):

Okay. Yes. So Alison, what's your favorite scene or moment from the new campaign that you believe best captures the heart of your homes beaks you?

Allison Stransky (23:35):

So in each of our four spots, there's a moment where our hero just makes this look like I've got this. So my dog is sitting on my day clothes, I've got this, my kids can't agree on dinner. I've got this. And that's the part that I think that captures because whether it comes from the surprise of dog on clothes or I got tackle dinner every single night, I think that's a very real moment that people go through every single day and you get that own personal little rush of like, you got this covered. But on a personal level, it is, I do really love the fridge spot where dad is cooking dinner for two kids because we laugh about this at home because every single night my husband is cooking dinner for our kids. And so that one for me is like a little slice of life, but there's a moment of confidence where you're in control. And that's what I think really encapsulates the spirit of this campaign.

Damian Fowler (24:37):

What's one feature of the Samsung Smart things ecosystem that you personally can't live without?

Allison Stransky (24:43):

So I am personally obsessed with all the innovation we have in this health space and sleep in particular because we know most Americans report they don't get enough sleep, but I am definitely part of that set as for mentioned to kids. So what I'm really excited about is the capabilities of your wearables to track how you are sleeping, connects that to your personal temperature in the middle of the night and auto adjust your thermostat accordingly to bring the temperature up or down depending upon what you need. So I will be completely honest, my full house is not fully smart thermostat enabled yet, but this is the one on my wishlist that I'm like, I need this because I am a wearable and health tracker enthusiast.

Ilyse Liffreing (25:33):

Okay, here's the next one. Which consumer insights helped you the most in developing this campaign?

Allison Stransky (25:40):

So when it comes to this campaign, we were looking for insights that I guess I'll say weren't so surprising as they were relatable. So I'm not sure that I can say from this campaign, but on the consumer insight that surprises me the most is that I'm not kidding and I'm not being facetious. People report saying they would rather live without their left hand than their mobile phone. I know that our phones are important, but I will say that is surprising because that is to report that that is a level of, I don't know if it's dependency or love, but either way that reminds me that we make a really special product that people really, really value in their lives. And I think that is just wild when they say it like that.

Damian Fowler (26:27):

Well, we did live without them a long time ago, so. Well, I did. I'm Gen X. Is there a brand campaign inside or outside tech that you think is nailing emotional storytelling right now?

Allison Stransky (26:39):

So it's not exactly a new spot. They've been doing it for a little while, but I loving Volvo and they released a spot, I believe it was last year, towards the end of the year for the New Ex 90 where it is a beautiful story of a couple has just found out that they are pregnant and they flash forward and they see their whole lives unfold. And then there's a moment where Volvo is critical in their safety features of making sure that this all happens. And I'm going to give you just enough tease because I think people should go look up this spot. This is a piece of art in video advertising. And I still get chills when I think about it. So that's one in particular that's really good. But then they've taken a lot of other moments with dad and daughter learning to drive together. And so many of these other things that I think cars can be emotional because they're related to safety. They also are so integral to your life. They enable you to get places to do things. So I think there's a lot of deep emotion in the auto category, but when you say emotion, that is the first one that comes to mind as I still get chills thinking about how beautiful that spot is.

Damian Fowler (28:02):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (28:04):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by Love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (28:11):

And remember

Allison Stransky (28:12):

The consumer insight that surprises me the most is that I'm not kidding, and I'm not being facetious. People report saying they would rather live without their left hand than their mobile phone.

Damian Fowler (28:23):

I'm Damian

Ilyse Liffreing (28:24):

And I'm Ilyse, and

Damian Fowler (28:25):

We'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On the latest episode of The Big Impression, Nestlé’s Antonia Farquhar talks about striking unexpected partnerships, like KitKat with Formula One, to keep the 90-year-old chocolate brand fresh. It’s part of a larger strategy to connect with new audiences through live cultural moments. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're spotlighting one of the most ambitious shifts happening in brand marketing, Nestle's global push to redefine performance in a world where reach, relevance and streaming. Now go hand in hand.

Damian Fowler (00:21):

Our guest is Antonia Farquhar, global head of Media and partnerships at Nestle. Antonia has been at the forefront of Nestle's pivot towards connected TV and long-term brand building across categories, continents, and campaigns.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:35):

From Formula One to Gen Z coffee drinkers, she's helping Nestle rethink what media performance really means in a CTV first world and how brands can use new tools and data to close the loop between awareness and action.

Damian Fowler (00:50):

Let's get into it.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:52):

Antonia. So I understand that you guys are sponsoring Kit Kat's Formula One. I'm very curious to learn more about that.

Antonia Farquhar (01:03):

Yeah, one of the reasons that the Kit Kat team put that sponsorship together was to really, they've got an existing brand strategy, have a break, have a Kit Kat, right?

Damian Fowler (01:14):

Everybody loves that.

Antonia Farquhar (01:14):

Which is decades and decades old. I think it's way over 75 years old, that consistency of brand message is there and it's really part of the foundations of that brand. But the break is more important than ever in a busy world that we all live in today. And so it was really putting the brand at the heart of also everybody needs a break. How can we capitalize on that? And F1 has gone from being very much, I think known as a petrol head sports, to really bringing in different audiences, so younger, more diverse across the genders and it's global and Kit Kat is a major global brand of ours. So it was an excellent opportunity to really bring together the brand and I guess wouldn't have been an expected place. And then to capitalize on that, on giving people a better break as well.

Ilyse Liffreing (02:08):

Can you give me a little bit of background about why sports and why Formula One?

Antonia Farquhar (02:15):

I think for me, sports is one of the last truly appointment of view. Live viewing. You do not want to miss the race. You do not want to miss the final, you do not. There's so many of those moments now where it is also, people are talking about it, who won, how's the lineup, where is it? Et cetera. So it's part of cultural conversations and really the opportunity for our brands is to connect into what's happening, making sure we are injecting our brands with freshness and bringing in that new conversations. And I think sponsorship like the F1, and we also did Coffee Mate and the Super Bowl early this year, again, to really capitalize on where's the real excitement happening and how do we inject our brands in a distinct way. Obviously being true to their brand codes to new and different audiences,

Damian Fowler (03:13):

A thought a 30,000 foot view, you look across the landscaping like, well, these are the moments where we need to show up

Antonia Farquhar (03:20):

For sure. I mean, one of the role within the team is to really inspire and provoke and drive that distinctiveness for our brands. We are privileged to have a lot of huge global brands, but we're also over 150 years old as a company. So it's how do you inject that freshness? How do you stand out in a increasingly fragmented media landscape? So I think this is where we want brands to really lean in and as I said, it is holding on what is your brand territory? Where is that strategic foundations that hold true and need to be consistent, but how do you punch and become a little bit more maybe unexpected? Unexpected places is clearly one of the themes that I'm seeing in the industry lately that it drives that attention.

Damian Fowler (04:20):

When you talk about unexpected places. Could you say a bit more about that?

Antonia Farquhar (04:26):

I mean, we all know we are living in a very attention. Yeah, the second you wake up the phones, the amount of apps on your phones, it's increasingly hard and I think it'll continue to get harder to really drive connectivity to brands with people. And so I think doing something a little bit different and perhaps wouldn't, it's not predictable for that brand to be in that particular place or speaking in a different environment. I think that's an opportunity going forward. And I think when you look at a lot of the award-winning work globally this year, that's one theme that I really see coming through and I kind of love it. It's bringing a bit of fresh, it's bringing an edge, and I think it's pushing people and brand experiences to a different level to where they were before. So

Ilyse Liffreing (05:18):

Yeah,

Antonia Farquhar (05:19):

I'm enjoying

Ilyse Liffreing (05:19):

It and it's fun.

Antonia Farquhar (05:20):

Exactly. It's fun. And I feel like it's almost, there's different areas where different brands have different tone of voice, and so it's working out really what is that? And then perhaps tapping into a community really engaged in a particular community and how can you link your brand and derive some insights from that behavior to speak in that way.

Ilyse Liffreing (05:45):

Certainly. Now, I know you were talking about using sports to tap into that audience around appointment tv. Are there other channels that you guys are particularly leaned into at this time? Are there ones that you're experimenting with? How is that going?

Antonia Farquhar (06:03):

Yeah, so I think the more you know about marketing science, and I'm quite a nerd when it comes to marketing science, but the more channels you are in, the higher your effectiveness of course. So again, it's about how do we do fewer, bigger, better campaigns.

(06:21):

And media activations to really get that consistent cut through. But in terms of channels, when you look at where the growth is at the moment, retail, digital media is growing at an increasingly fast rate year on year. But connected TV is another one that I am really excited to discover the future of that particular medium. I mean, even in the last few years, the amount of ads that we serve on connected TV devices is more than doubled. The adoption rate is huge and it's from where you'd expect the more advanced markets where most of the streaming services for the US and the uk, but also in markets like India, the Philippines, Australia, the viewing habits are really shifting. I think COVID drove that acceleration and we all spent a lot more time at home and people probably spent money on better TVs because there wasn't as much to do outside. And so yeah, that's one I'm excited about.

Ilyse Liffreing (07:29):

And I would imagine for a brand like Nestle that the intersection of CTV and retail media and e-commerce is really exciting now that you can practically shop through your TV too.

Antonia Farquhar (07:43):

Yes. Yeah, it is. I think it's a great opportunity. I love the fact that that medium is back in the living room but advanced and it's now how do you make sure you are able to do a brand building experience and build an emotional connection, but also give people the prompt to buy perhaps through a QR code or through the retailer websites. And obviously the audiences piece is super attractive as well when you're really trying to nudge people to close the sale. So yeah, I think it's very exciting. It's amazing.

Damian Fowler (08:23):

I was interested in what you said just then about fewer, bigger, better, which is easy to say, but perhaps not easy to execute. What kind of mindset shifts were needed to get your teams to rally behind that concept and how does it kind of show up?

Antonia Farquhar (08:41):

Yeah, fewer, bigger, better is a phrase I feel like I say every single day in the office. We started on a journey a few years ago and it's all about the focus. So focusing on the brands, ensuring they're well fed with the right amount of investment because we know that's one of the key factors of marketing effectiveness. But so from where do we invest, how many briefs, et cetera, but actually also through to our agency partners as well. So we've done a big transformation across lots of parts of the globe to really consolidate our agency model, which has been a mindset shift to your point around if we scale and standardize, then we free up more time and brainpower to really create outstanding media activations and planning. And so we are in the transformation area of that at the moment. But yeah, it's bringing a lot of great benefits, good talent, better work, and a more we can scale faster. We are a huge organization. We operate in 188 markets, and so therefore scaling information and driving that best practice is going to go so much faster through the consolidation.

Ilyse Liffreing (10:13):

When it comes to CTV, are there specific brands that Nestle owns that kind of fit that target audience a little better?

Antonia Farquhar (10:24):

I think it's a great question. I think it fits a lot of our brands, but to your point, it depends on where that behavior is happening. Often it can be younger audiences, but we are seeing it growing to really, really broad audiences as well. And especially the move we've had in the industry from really subscription to the ad model piece allows that larger access as well. What I also am interested in this space is the type of content as well. So there's obviously a huge diversity in terms of super high production and Netflix style content all the way through to the UGC or that type of content as well. So again, going back to the point earlier about different audiences and their interests, to me that brings a really thoughtful opportunity about are there different types of content that makes sense for different brands, to your point, versus doing a one size fits all. So I think that's super interesting as we see the, well, the more and more content that comes out and the consumption increase as well.

Damian Fowler (11:37):

And what's also interesting I guess, is the global differences. I mean, I know the APAC market is very mobile first and different markets, more mature markets like the US CTV is strong. I wonder from your perspective, where do you see the big growth opportunities around the world from a media perspective?

Antonia Farquhar (12:02):

Like you say in Asia, we see huge growth of shopping online. It's seamless and you can really go from discovering a product to buying it within 10 seconds. And so that is challenging some of the norms about the amount of time but that people need. So yeah, again, it depends on the category and the purchase cycle there, but I think that's a great opportunity. Things like WhatsApp I think will be increasingly utilized by brands as a way, a more seamless way of connecting with shoppers as well. But I think social retail media and connected TV are the three areas that we really focus on, but then the important ask within that is how do we do it in a way that is quality, culturally relevant with the right context, so we are able to cut through in an effective way.

Damian Fowler (13:07):

So you're working closely with different agencies in each of those distinct markets.

Antonia Farquhar (13:12):

Yeah, exactly. To find the right opportunity and what are the local opportunities there too. Are

Damian Fowler (13:20):

There any surprises from your point of view? And I just want to say I grew up in York and it was the home of Roundtree Macintosh, which where Kit Kat started. And then over the years we've seen Kit Kat show up in different places, like in Japan, I think there's a version with green tea or green. So that's an interesting kind of way

Ilyse Liffreing (13:41):

A lot to collect them from around the world.

Damian Fowler (13:43):

And I think it is remarkable how the brand sort of KitKat brand has scaled across the world, but it's still kind true to that chocolate bar that I knew in York when I used to wake up. You could smell the cocoa. So are you kind of thinking about things like that?

Antonia Farquhar (14:02):

I think for me and with the brand team, it's about staying true to those foundations. Have a break, have a kick at, and that core bar that you grew up smelling,

(14:16):

But how can you flex into those local regions and opportunities, flavors tastes? And I think that's exciting opportunity. And obviously Japan, in fact, yesterday someone was saying about how they flew to Japan to buy the different types of KitKats. Clearly a lot of people get excited about that, but we also have factories all over the world. So it allows us to diversify and able to deliver to some of the nature, some of the local taste preferences. But for me it's about staying core to that brand really, because the foundation behind the piece. But yeah, you can also have fun with it with different flavor rotations too. Yeah.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:04):

Is there any advice that you would give marketers looking to make the same shift as you guys are doing from short term return on investment to long-term brand building?

Damian Fowler (15:16):

Fewer, bigger, better, right? Fewer, bigger better. Is that what you say?

Antonia Farquhar (15:19):

A rally cry. I'm going to have it on a T-shirt. Exactly. But no, you should sell those too. Exactly. So I think it's about focus, right? And it's about really focusing on where are the areas of the greatest opportunity. I'm also a big believer in having data points at hand. So whenever we are challenged around some of the decisions that we are aiming to drive across the business, having that the audience has actually grown by 50, 60, 70 or whatever percent, and it's no longer just teams, it's a very broad audience and our products are super broad and it allows us to connect with people daily, weekly. Again, it's that consistent piece that I think is really attractive there.

Damian Fowler (16:12):

What are you obsessed with figuring out right now?

Antonia Farquhar (16:16):

So many, many things at the moment. I just thinking about the conversation that we were having about quality of media and connected tv, I would love more understanding on the impact of ad loads. As I said, it does vary hugely across the different providers from six minutes an hour to, I dunno, probably 35 minutes an hour. And again, I'm a big believer and you get what you pay for. So if it is a higher cost, then the effectiveness is hopefully and likely higher. But again, proving the house I think would be really interesting as well and what effect, what it has on the effectiveness of that.

Ilyse Liffreing (16:59):

Yeah. So what would you say is missing from the CTV marketplace as it stands today?

Antonia Farquhar (17:04):

I would love more unification to manage, this is a very technical media answer, but to manage reach and frequency more consistently. I think that's been a bit of a downfall of the growth of things like BVO and CTV was that ability to effectively manage and not feel like you're wasting or annoying people with too many ads. So the unification of that across many devices would be my dream to be able to do. And it was never possible to unlock on linear TV for very obvious reasons, but as we are in a much more digitized world, it does feel possible. I'm not sure we'll get there. But yeah, any unification that a lot of the DSPs offer to me, they're incredibly valuable to ensure we're being more efficient and effective with our investment.

Ilyse Liffreing (17:59):

Very cool. Now I actually do have a follow up to what you said before about effective reach and cost. Do you feel like there, do you feel like most marketers still have the mindset that they want to buy in at the cheapest they can, no matter the effectiveness?

Antonia Farquhar (18:21):

Or is that changing? Do you think it's changing? I think it is changing. I do. I'm a believer that the more great effective research and the more case studies and that sort of part you read, it's not about that to me. These are soft metrics in terms of did the campaign deliver what you signed for on your media plan? But really we are here to drive business and brands and whether it's cross between equity and sales and category growth. So to me, you have to come back to, is it driving business results, making sure you're able to measure and manage those effectively because yeah, if you can't measure it, you can't manage it and you can't go back and say, well, we reached this many people, but did they convert? Did they do anything? Did they feel differently about your brands? These are the questions I'm really interested to answer.

Damian Fowler (19:15):

I guess final question, what's one of your favorite Nestle ad campaigns? Past or present?

Antonia Farquhar (19:21):

This is a tough question to answer because as my role is global, the brands are equal. I have to say some of my favorite, or I think it's timeless, is the George Clooney and espresso pieces as well. The art direction there I always think is beautiful. And I'm a big Nespresso fan, I have to say from a personal perspective. And also in Australia and New Zealand and Asia, there's a brand called Milo, and that is all about sport being a great way of bringing together people to learn and play and have fun. And they've done some fantastic ads throughout the time, really showing that resilience and the grit as well that it comes to what sport can teach you to do. So that's some of my favorite ads that we've done.

Damian Fowler (20:29):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:31):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by love and caliber, and our associate producer is

Antonia Farquhar (20:37):

Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (20:38):

And remember,

Antonia Farquhar (20:39):

Yeah, fewer, bigger, better is a phrase I feel like I say every single day.

Damian Fowler (20:43):

I'm Damian

Antonia Farquhar (20:44):

And I'm Ilyse,

Damian Fowler (20:45):

And we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Connected TV is no longer just a buzzword in the ad world — it’s where the industry is being reinvented. Audiences aren’t just watching differently; they’re shopping, engaging, and co-viewing in ways that open new creative doors for brands. And sitting at the intersection of entertainment and advertising is Roku, a company that’s helping marketers meet these shifts head-on.

In this episode of The Big Impression, Roku’s VP of advertising, marketing & measurement, Sarah Harms, explains why the company is uniquely positioned as a publisher and an operating system.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're talking about how streaming and connected TV are transforming not just how we watch, but how brands connect with audiences.

Damian Fowler (00:17):

Our guest is Sarah Harms vice president of advertising, marketing and measurement at Roku. She leads the strategy behind Roku's advertising business, helping brands tap into streaming's growing audience while building smarter measurement tools along the way.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:32):

Before Roku, Sarah built her expertise across both the buy and sell sides of the industry with leadership roles at Microsoft XR and wpp giving her a unique perspective on how ad tech data and storytelling all come together on Connected tv.

Damian Fowler (00:49):

We'll talk about how Roku's helping brands of all scientists meet new viewer behaviors, build more effective campaigns, and push the creative boundaries of what's possible on CTV.

Ilyse Liffreing (01:00):

So let's get into it.

Damian Fowler (01:03):

So Sarah Roku is in a pretty unique spot right now, right? Between entertainment and ads with this latest brand or measurement move, what got it started? Was there an insight or audience need that really stood out to you?

Sarah Harms (01:17):

Yeah, so in my role I run ad marketing and measurement. So much of my job is us as a marketer, so marketing roku's, advertising proposition, but also in support of our marketers. And so that makes my job very fun. And so a lot of this conversation today, I'm going to go back and forth between my job as a marketer, but also my job in B2B advertising of driving marketers results on our platform. Something that's really fun about Roku is that we're a publisher, but we're also the largest operating system in the us. We see consumers come through our front door to get to the content they know and love and care about. And so that gives us a really rich canvas for supporting some of our marketers initiatives. And so for example, the Super Bowl was very fun for us, whether it was using our platform to drive traffic to Tuby or to build really fun brand experiences on our canvases.

(02:13):

So we had, when Sally met Hellman's and we had Hellman's and Roku City and we had the Super Bowl ad and a really lovely zone destination to drive shopping and drive purchases of Hellman's mayonnaise, which you really wouldn't expect from a television advertising experience. And so I think that was a fun one from us in supportive marketers. And then a whole part of my job is making sure our advertisers really know about the Roku experience. And so while it's B2B, it would be silly not to address them in a B2C capacity because our marketers could also be customers, the need to understand the value of the Roku experience even if they don't have a television

Damian Fowler (02:53):

From ro. Once you realize your customers could be businesses, consumers, or both, how did that shift your strategy? Did it change the way you approach things?

Sarah Harms (03:01):

I think it's just strategic use of our resources and a strategic use of our messaging. We certainly think the Roku experience as an operating system is delightful and easy and intuitive. We talk about how your mother-in-law can set it up herself as the example we always use. And so we certainly want our advertising customers to know that too because it really is a beautiful, elegant experience for advertising as well, for watching content.

Ilyse Liffreing (03:28):

So you've got such a big range of advertisers from big Fortune five hundreds to D two C brands to B2B. How do you build campaigns or measurements that flex for either of them but still stay true to your own approach?

Sarah Harms (03:44):

Great. So I'll address that as a speaking to the advertising community part of my job, we certainly are on a journey to evolve our strategy to be more flexible and meet our customers where they want us to be, whether it being in their buying platforms of choice or providing optionality to a D two C customer by giving them a very lightweight, intuitive self-service platform like Roku Ads Manager. And so I think a lot of it from a measurement standpoint is doing some education. I think some of the questions were ground around CTV is still somewhat new, but I don't know if it's new, but it's certainly new in the eyes of performance. And so it's a lot of education about how we can enable customers to drive true outcomes using connected television. And so whether it's ad manager or unique measurement integrations, shoppable formats, we really try to address all of that

Ilyse Liffreing (04:36):

Now. Streaming's completely changed how people watch from binging to co-viewing and basically everything in between. How do cultural or data trends help shape what you're doing on the platform?

Sarah Harms (04:48):

Yeah, I mean it's been so interesting to see it change even since the pandemic. I think for a long time CTV was synonymous with SVOD or subscription video on demand. We're very much seen that is not the case anymore. A majority of our households are using some form of A VOD, we're advertising video on demand. And so that trend coupled with live sports coming into CTV and streaming, it's really just driven a whole new slew of opportunities for advertising. And so off the back of that, that's more addressable, more accountable television because it is connected television. And so that's been fun from a education standpoint, it's been fun from a how do we enable our platform to address that and also how do we educate our customers from a measurement standpoint.

Damian Fowler (05:37):

So what's the ad experience like on Roku? You mentioned CTV and it sounds like there's a pretty wide mix of formats. Can you break that down a little more?

Sarah Harms (05:46):

I'd love to because I think that's again, where my role as a B2B marketer, it's of course helpful to inform our clients about our experiences then they might not have a Roku device or television. And so we think about our business in really two core buckets. We have the Roku experiences, which is our beautiful ui, so native home screen units, they're customized, they're elegant, and we have some of our more kind of viral experiences like Roku City, which is fun and delightful. We're now doing brand integrations there. But then on the other side, we're also a very scaled publisher. So the Roku channel continues to climb Nielsen's Gauge in terms of total TV content time. And so that is allowing us to be a very kind of open interoperable, performant publisher as well with standard video that's available programmatically. It's available with unique measurement integrations, and that's really our ecosystem being an interoperable partner in the space.

Ilyse Liffreing (06:43):

Roku City is that fun, animated screensaver, very purple that a lot of people see on their TVs. Can you tell us a little bit about it and the kinds of brands you're partnering with there?

Sarah Harms (06:54):

Yeah, so this has just been something really fun that's taken off. So Roku City is our interactive screensaver and people love it. I don't know if you see it every day, but it's cute, it's fun, it grabs your attention. We see that it's tweeted about every 12 minutes, so it is a viral experience and so much so that really our advertisers challenged us to think about it differently. And so now we have really a variety of advertisers coming into Roku City. So I gave the Hellman's example. We had Taylor Swift in Roku City. And so it's really just a fun, unique, totally differentiated advertising experience, but we tie it all to the rest of our assets.

Damian Fowler (07:36):

I heard somebody say this morning, performance media is kind of the baseline. Now with that in mind, how do you think about measuring engagement across all these different touch points that we've been talking about?

Sarah Harms (07:46):

Yeah, I mean, so much of my job on the measurement side of the house is education. And I think the challenge is that performance is in the eye of the beholder and CTV is still bought via a very different group of personas from a legacy television buyer all the way to someone that had been in social API partners and dipping their toe into CTV. And so performance is required, but it's really a matter of educating them on what that means to them and supporting them in their efforts. But what's great about CTV is its big beautiful television, but with all the addressability and accountability of digital.

Damian Fowler (08:23):

And on that point though, what is it that linear TV buyers still don't quite get about CTV?

Sarah Harms (08:29):

I think it's the ecosystem aspect of it all. I think television in the past was measured by a couple companies with a couple KPIs or just reach. And so I think this is where CTV has really unlocked really turnkey, always on easy to optimize measurement. That's very exciting.

Ilyse Liffreing (08:48):

So one thing we like to do on the show is pull our takeaways from the big campaigns. Are there any KPIs or success stories from the campaigns running on Roku that stand out to you?

Sarah Harms (09:00):

Yeah, so I think what's been fun is we see that we have opportunities for really kind of all verticals. Obviously Roku is born out of the media and entertainment industry, but we've expanded there. And so we really do have kind of a playbook for each vertical, but auto specifically comes to mind, which is a really exciting one. You don't really think of performance and auto on tv, but we've built kind of beautiful experiences like showrooms where you can configure cars, sign up for test drives. And so I think we've really changed the narrative there in terms of driving actions for that vertical all in a very big, beautiful, elegant canvas.

Damian Fowler (09:37):

Are there any other kind of surprises from your takeaways in terms of like, oh, that's popping. I never expected that.

Sarah Harms (09:44):

So for me, I don't carry a wallet. My phone is my wallet. And I think if you told me that five years ago, I would've never believed you. Similarly, I don't think anyone thought they'd be shopping with their television. That happens every day on our platform, and I think it's because of clients testing with us, but also it comes back to us as an operating system. And really our remote, it's a few buttons. It's really easy. We have a direct relationship with our customers from a billing perspective. And so the same way Apple Pay is just so easy now you can shop from your tv, which again seems insane, but maybe we'll be here in a couple years and we'll see so much direct shopping from televisions.

Ilyse Liffreing (10:23):

What about the interest from B2B brands? It just feels like that sector is really exploding across all categories, but CTV particularly.

Sarah Harms (10:33):

Yeah, I mean so much of my job as a B2B marketer is a lot of education and a lot of really, so much of our reframing away from being a walled garden to more of an open collaborative partner. And so much of it is doing, we talked in the press about our change away from doing a big new front event. We did more kind of small customized dinners instead just to make sure there is a very direct touch point, but also specifically cater to each client's needs. And so I think that's been more of our approach of making sure we do pointed conversations to address the nuances and needs of each customer.

Ilyse Liffreing (11:12):

And how was that new approach for you this year? I know a lot of brands are doing things a bit differently at the fronts. How did it go on your side?

Sarah Harms (11:21):

I think for us it's knowing the value of us as the operating system and having great content, but not being these content giants that have millions and millions and millions of dollars to spend on content. And so they should do a big show for us. We drive traffic to the big show. And so I think it was more about, yes, of course, talking about our amazing content and brand integrations there, but also acknowledging the integrations that each customer wanted, the platforms each customer wanted, and what we're doing for each of them in a really kind of catered way versus such a one to many message.

Damian Fowler (11:57):

You mentioned content earlier. Are you seeing any particular trends now? Anything that's really driving interest from certain categories or marketers?

Sarah Harms (12:06):

So we have our Roku originals, and we do very well in kind of holiday and home as you can expect, but I think this year in Cannes, you won't be in a meeting like this without talking about sports. And so we have sports rights, yes, but again, the value of the operating system, we've built sports zones to help make sport discoverable and findable. I always use the example of my husband's great Uncle Joe, diehard Yankees fan, can't find a Yankees game because it might be on four different places in five days. And so how can Roku as an operating system help in that regard? And so I think Roku is invested a ton in our infrastructure of driving curation of sports, but also we're very invested in what we call challenger sports, so National women's soccer league volleyball, stuff like that where they have really these die hard fan bases and they just want to find it. We're the destination to help them.

Damian Fowler (13:01):

We keep hearing it's not just about mass reach anymore, it's really about how well the audience, and the better you understand them, the better this whole thing works for both the platform and the advertiser. How do you see that playing out right now?

Sarah Harms (13:13):

Yeah, and they're loyal. They're diehard. They're big spenders sometimes. And so you want to kind of associate with yourself with such a kind of amazing, loyal fan base that's just so passionate about the sport.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:26):

So we have some quick questions for you now. So first of all, you've led both creative and analytical teams. What is one timeless truth about great advertising that cuts across both sides?

Sarah Harms (13:41):

First of all, it's a very fun aspect of my job having both kind of the marketing team and the measurement and analytics team. Two very different personas, but brilliant in their own ways. And so much of my focus since being here is making sure they're working together versus kind of two ships in the night with their own functions because we certainly have such amazing data, so we should use that to speak to the marketplace in a smart way. And so I think that's been really fun. I think they're getting to know the other side of the house and the creative thinkers versus the analytical thinkers like me pushing them to work together has been very fun. And I think with that in mind, a data informed approach is key. And so that's what really drew me to Roku was that opportunity of just this amazing data set that we have that we can use to optimize, but also to tell our story in a more elegant way.

Damian Fowler (14:33):

Now since you joined Roku, is there a favorite data point or piece of feedback that's really stuck with you?

Sarah Harms (14:38):

Yeah, well, I think what's interesting about my job is I should have been informing people like myself about the value of Roku. Before the process started of being recruited, I had a pretty antiquated view, the Roku advertising offering. So that's something that in getting here and in going through that process I learned so much more. I think my favorite might be that any given month, we see a user come through our front door about 25 days a month. And so that is an advertising opportunity to message our amazing footprint. But we see that on average an individual app is seven, maybe eight times a month. And so if you think about that, the reach potential, but also just the consumer habit of using our devices and seeing the messaging from our brands, I think is so compelling and something that really we're massive as it relates to our OS and footprint. And so we've designed these beautiful experiences to really account for that.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:36):

Now, Roku really helped pioneer the modern CTV ad experience. Is there a moment that's made you step back and think, wow, look how far the medium and your team really has come?

Sarah Harms (15:49):

I think the fact that the Super Bowl was really such a success story for streaming, I think we never thought the Super Bowl would be at that level, but it was streamed and it really streamable and really without a hitch, I think we've seen some live streaming events and there were some issues. I thought it was very well done. We were happy to support it. We drove some amazing traffic to Tubi. And so I just think 10 years ago, we never thought that would be the case. And so that's just been a fun thing to think about that and the Olympics and the Olympic zone that we built, just really elegant experiences and just changing television has been fun.

Damian Fowler (16:32):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (16:35):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by Love and Caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (16:41):

And remember,

Sarah Harms (16:43):

A data informed approach is key. And so that's what really drew me to Roku.

Damian Fowler (16:47):

I'm Damian, and I'm we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Cookies are out, context is in. People Inc.’s Jonathan Roberts joins The Big Impression to talk about how America’s biggest publisher is using AI to reinvent contextual advertising with real-time intent.

From Game of Thrones maps to the open web, Roberts believes content is king in the AI economy.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler, and welcome to this edition of The Big Impression. Today we're looking at how publishers are using AI to reinvent contextual advertising and why it's becoming an important and powerful alternative to identity-based targeting. My guest is Jonathan Roberts, chief Innovation Officer at People Inc. America's largest publisher, formerly known as Meredith. He's leading the charge with decipher an AI platform that helps advertisers reach audiences based on real time intent across all of People Inc. Site and the Open Web. We're going to break down how it works, what it means for advertisers in a privacy first world and why Jonathan's side hustle. Creating maps for Game of Thrones has something for teachers about building smarter ad tech. So let's get into it. One note, this episode was recorded before the company changed its name. After the Meredith merger, you had some challenges getting the business going again. What made you realize that sort of rethinking targeting with decipher could be the way to go?

Jonathan Roberts (01:17):

We had a really strong belief and always have had a strong belief in the power of great content and also great content that helps people do things. Notably and Meredith are both in the olden times, you would call them service journalism. They help people do things, they inspire people. It's not news, it's not sports. If you go to Better Homes and Gardens to understand how to refresh your living room for spring, you're going to go into purchase a lot of stuff for your living room. If you're planting seeds for a great garden, you're also going to buy garden furniture. If you're going to health.com, you're there because you're managing a condition. If you're going to all recipes, you're shopping for dinner. These are all places where the publisher and the content is a critical path on the purchase to doing something like an economically valuable something. And so putting these two businesses together to build the largest publisher in the US and one of the largest in the world was a real privilege. All combinations are hard. When we acquired Meredith, it is a big, big business. We became the largest print publisher overnight.

(02:23):

What we see now, because we've been growing strongly for many, many quarters, and that growth is continuing, we're public. You can see our numbers, the performance is there, the premium is there, and you can always sell anything once. The trick is will people renew when they come back? And now we're in a world where our advertising revenue, which is the majority of our digital revenue, is stable and growing, deeply reliable and just really large. And we underpin that with decipher. Decipher simply is a belief that what you're reading right now tells a lot more about who you are and what you are going to do than a cookie signal, which is two days late and not relevant. What you did yesterday is less relevant to what you need to do than what you're doing right now. And so using content as a real time predictive signal is very, very performant. It's a hundred percent addressable, right? Everyone's reading content when we target to, they're on our content and we guaranteed it would outperform cookies, and we run a huge amount of ad revenue and we've never had to pay it in a guarantee.

Damian Fowler (03:34):

It's interesting that you're talking about contextual, but you're talking about contextual in real time, which seems to be the difference. I mean, because some people hear contextually, they go, oh, well, that's what you used to do, place an ad next to a piece of content in the garden supplement or the lifestyle supplement, but this is different.

Jonathan Roberts (03:53):

Yes. Yeah. I mean, ensemble say it's 2001 called and once it's at Targeting strategy back, but all things are new again, and I think they're newly fresh and newly relevant, newly accurate because it can do things now that we were never able to do before. So one of the huge strengths of Meredith as a platform is because we own People magazine, we dominate entertainment, we have better homes and gardens and spruce, we really cover home. We have all recipes. We literally have all the recipes plus cereal, seeds plus food and wine. So we cover food. We also do tech, travel, finance and health, and you could run those as a hazard brands, and they're all great in their own, but there's no network effect. What we discovered was because I know we have a pet site and we also have real simple, and we know that if you are getting a puppy or you have an aging dog, which we know from the pet site, we know you massively over index for interest in cleaning products and cleaning ideas on real simple, right?

Damian Fowler (04:55):

Yeah.

Jonathan Roberts (04:55):

This doesn't seem like a shocking conclusion to have, but the fact that we have both tells us both, which also means that if you take a health site where we're helping people with their chronic conditions, we can see all the signals of exactly what help you need with your diet. Huge overlaps. So we have all the recipe content and we know exactly how that cross correlates with chronic conditions. We also know how those health conditions correlate into skincare because we have Brody, which deals with makeup and beauty, but also all the skincare conditions and finance, right? Health is a financial situation as much as it is a health situation, particularly in the us. And so by tying these together, because most of these situations are whole lifestyle questions, we can understand that if you're thinking about planning a cruise in the Mediterranean, you're a good target for Vanguard to market mutual funds to. Whereas if we didn't have both investipedia and travel leisure, we couldn't do that. And so there's nothing on that cruise page, on the page in the words that allows you to do keyword targeting for mutual funds.

(05:55):

But we're using the fact that we know that cruise is a predictor of a mutual fund purchase so that we can actually market to anyone in market per cruise. We know they've got disposable income, they're likely low risk, long-term buy andhold investors with value investing needs. And we know that because we have these assets now, we have about 1500 different topics that we track across all of DDM across 1.5 million articles, tens of millions of visits a day, billions a year. If you just look at the possible correlations between any of those taxonomies that's over a million, or if we go a level deeper, over a hundred million connected data points, you can score. We've scored all of them with billions of visits, and so we have that full map of all consumers.

Damian Fowler (06:42):

I wanted to ask you, of course, and you always get this question I'm sure, but you have a pretty unusual background for ad tech theoretical physics as you mentioned, and researcher at CERN and Mapmaker as well for Game of Thrones, but this isn't standard publisher experience, but how did all that scientific background play into the way you approached building this innovation?

Jonathan Roberts (07:03):

Yeah, I think when I first joined the company, which was a long time ago now, and one of the original bits of this company was about.com, one of the internet oh 0.1 OG sites, and there was daily data on human interest going back to January 1st, 2000 across over a thousand different topics. And in that case, tens of millions of articles. And the team said, is this useful? Is there anything here that's interesting? I was like, oh my god, you don't know what you've got because if you treat as a physicist coming in, I looked at this and was like, this is a, it's like a telescope recording all of human interest. Each piece of content is like a single pixel of your telescope. And so if somebody comes and visit, you're like, oh, I'm recording the interest of this person in this topic, and you've got this incredibly fine grained understanding of the world because you've got all these people coming to us telling us what they want every day.

(08:05):

If I'm a classic news publisher, I look at my data and I find out what headlines I broke, I look at my data and I learn more about my own editorial strategy than I do about the world. We do not as much tell the world what to think about. The world tells us what they care about. And so that if you treat that as just a pure experimental framework where this incredible lens into an understanding of the world, lots of things are very stable. Many questions that people ask, they always ask, but you understand why do they ask them today? What's causing the to what are the correlations between what they are understanding around our finance business through the financial crash, our health business, I ran directly through COVID. So you see this kind of real time change of the world reacting to big shocks and it allows you to predict what comes next, right? Data's lovely, but unless you can do something with it, it's useless.

Damian Fowler (08:59):

It's interesting to hear you talk about that consistency, the sort of predictability in some ways of, I guess intense signals or should we just say human behavior, but now we've got AI further, deeper into the mix.

Jonathan Roberts (09:13):

So we were the first US publisher to do a deal with open ai, and that comes in three parts. They paid for training on our content. They also agreed within the contract to source and cite our content when it was used. And the third part, the particularly interesting part, is co-development of new things. So we've been involved with them as they've been building out their search product. They've been involved with us as we've been evolving decipher, one of the pieces of decipher is saying, can I understand which content is related to which other content? And in old fashioned pre AI days when it was just machine learning and natural language processing, you would just look at words and word occurrence and important words, and you'd correlate them that way. With ai, you go from the word to the concept to the reasoning behind it to a latent understanding of these kind of deeper, deeper connections.

(10:09):

And so when we changed over literally like, is this content related to that content? Is this article similar in what it's treating to that article? If they didn't use the same words but they were talking about the same topic, the previous system would've missed it. This system gets deeper. It's like, oh, this is the same concept. This is the same user need. These are the same intentions. And so when we overhauled this kind of multimillion point to point connection calculation, we drastically changed about 30% of those connections and significantly improved them, gives a much reacher, much deeper understanding of our content. What we've also done is said, and this is a year thing that we launched it at the beginning of the year, we have decipher, which runs on site. We launched Decipher Plus Inventively named right? I like it. We debated Max or Max Plus, but we went with Plus.

(10:59):

And what this says is we understand the user intent on our sites. We know when somebody's reading content, we have a very strong predictor model of what that person's going to need to do next. And we said, well, we're not the only people with intent driven content and intent driven audiences. So we know that if you're reading about newborn health topics, you are three and a half times more likely than average to be in market for a stroller. We're not the only people that write about newborn health. So we can find the individual pages on the rest of the web that do talk about newborn health, and we can unlock that very strong prediction that this purchase intent there. And so then we can have a premium service that buy those ads and delivers that value to our clients. Now we do that mapping and we've indexed hundreds of premium domains with opening eyes vector, embedding architecture to build that logic.

Damian Fowler (11:56):

That's fascinating. So in lots of ways, you're helping other publishers beyond your owned and operated properties.

Jonathan Roberts (12:02):

We believed that there was a premium in publishing that hadn't been tapped. We proved that to be true. Our numbers support it. We bet 2.7 billion on that bet, and it worked. So we really put our money where our mouth is. We know there's a premium outside of our walls that isn't being unlocked, and we have an information advantage so we can bring more premium to the publishers who have that quality content.

Damian Fowler (12:24):

I've got lots of questions about that, but one of them is, alright. I guess the first one is why have publishers been so slow out of the starting blocks to get this right when on the media buying side you have all of this ad tech that's going on, DSPs, et cetera.

Jonathan Roberts (12:42):

I think partly it's because publishers have always been a participant in the ad tech market off to one side. I put this back to the original sin of Ad Tech, which is coming in and saying, don't worry about it, publishers, we know your audience better than you ever will. That wasn't true then, and it's not true today, but Ad Tech pivoted the market to that position and that meant the publishers were dependent upon ad Tech's understanding of their audience. Now, if you've got a cookie-based understanding of an audience, how does a publisher make that cookie-based audience more valuable? Well, they don't because you're valuing the cookie, not the real time signal. And there is no such thing as cookie targeting. It's all retargeting. All the cookie signal is yesterday Signal. It's only what they did before they came to your site, dead star like or something, right? The publisher definitionally isn't influencing the value of that cookie. So an ad tech is valuing the cookie. The only thing the publisher can do to make more money is add scale, which is either generate clickbait because that's the cheapest way to get audience scale or run more ads on the page.

(13:57):

Cookies as a currency for advertising and targeting is the reason we currently have the internet We deserve, not the internet we want because the incentive is to cheap scale. If instead you can prove that the content is driving the value, the content is driving the decision and the content is driving the outcome, then you invest in more premium content. If you're a publisher, the second world is the one you want. But we had a 20 year distraction from understanding the value of content. And we're only now coming back to, I think one thing I'm very really happy to see is since we launched a cipher two years ago, there are now multiple publishers coming out with similarly inspired targeting architecture or ideas about how to reach quality, which is just a sign that the market has moved, right? Or the market moving and retargeting still works. Cookies are good currency, they do drive performance. If they didn't, it would never worked in the first place. But the ability to understand and classify premium content at web scale, which is what decipher Plus is a map for all intent across the entire open web is the thing that's required for quality content to be competitive with cookies as targeting mechanism and to beat it at

Damian Fowler (15:15):

Scale. You mentioned how this helps you reach all these third party sites beyond your properties. How do you ensure that there's still quality in the, there's quality content that match the kind of signals that makes decipher work?

Jonathan Roberts (15:32):

Tell me, not all content on the internet is beautiful, clean and wonderful. Not all

Damian Fowler (15:36):

Premium is it?

Jonathan Roberts (15:36):

I know there's a lot of made for arbitrage out there. Look, we, we've been a publisher for a long time. We've acquired a lot of publishers over the years, and every time we have bought a publisher, we have had to clean up the content because cheap content for scale is a siren call of publishing. Like, oh, I can get these eyeballs cheaper. Oh, wonderful. I know I just do that. And everyone gives it on some level to that, right? So we have consistently cleaned up content libraries every time we've acquired publishers. Look at the very beginning about had maybe 10 to 15 million euros. By the time we launched these artists and these individual vertical sites were down to 250,000 pages of content. It was a bigger business and it was a better business. The other side is the actual ad layout has to be good,

Damian Fowler (16:29):

But

Jonathan Roberts (16:29):

Every time we've picked up a publisher, we've removed ads from the site. Increase, yeah, experience quality,

Damian Fowler (16:33):

Right?

Jonathan Roberts (16:36):

Because we've audited multiple publishers for the cleanup, we have an incredibly detailed understanding of what quality content is. We have lots of, this is our special skill as a publisher. We can go into a publisher, identify the content and see what's good.

Damian Fowler (16:54):

Is that part of your pitch as it were, to people who advertisers?

Jonathan Roberts (16:58):

We work lots of advertisers. We're a huge part of the advertising market because we cover all the verticals. We have endemics in every space. If you're trying to do targeting based on identity, we have tens of millions of people a day. It'll work. You will find them with us, we reach the entire country every month. We are a platform scale publisher. So at no point do we saying don't do that, obviously do that, right? But what we're saying is there's a whole bunch of people who you can't identify, either they don't have cookies or IDs or because the useful data doesn't exist yet. It's not attached to those IDs. So incremental, supplementary and additional to reach the people in the moment with a hundred percent addressability, full national reach, complete privacy compliance, just the content, total brand safety. And we will put these two things side by side and we will guarantee that the decipher targeting will outperform the cookie targeting, which isn't say don't do cookie targeting, obviously do it. It works, it's successful. This is incremental and also will outperform. And then it just depends on the client, right? Some people want brand lift and brand consideration. They want big flashy things. We run People Magazine, we host the Grammy after party. We can do all the things you need from a large partner more than just media, but also we can get you right down to, for some partners with big deals, we guarantee incremental roas,

Damian Fowler (18:26):

Actual

Jonathan Roberts (18:26):

In-store sales, incremental lift.

Damian Fowler (18:29):

So let's talk about roas. What's driving advertisers to lean in so heavily?

Jonathan Roberts (18:34):

Well, I think everybody's seen this over the last couple of years. In a high interest or environment, the CMOs getting asked, what's the return on my ad spend? So whereas previously you might've just been able to do a big flashy execution or activation. Now everybody wants some level of that media spend to be attributable to lift to dollars, to return to performance, because every single person who comes through our sites is going to do something after they come. We're never the last stop in that journey, and we don't sell you those garden seeds. We do not sell you the diabetes medication directly. We are going to have to hand you off to a partner who is going to be the place you take the economic action. So we are in the path to purchase for every single purchase on Earth.

(19:19):

And what we've proven with decipher is not only that we can be in that pathway and put the message in the path of that person who is going to make a decision, has not made one yet. But when we put the messaging in front of it of that person at the time, it changes their decisions, which is why it's not just roas, which could just be handing out coupons in the line to the pizza store. It's incremental to us, if you did not do this, you would have made less money. When you do this, you'll make more money. And having got to a point where we've now got multiple large campaigns, both for online action and brick and mortar stores that prove that when we advertise the person at this moment, they change their decision and they make their brand more money. Turns out that's not the hardest conversation to have with marketers. Truly, truly, if you catch people at the right moment, you will change their mind.

Damian Fowler (20:10):

They'll happily go back to their CFO and say, look at this. This is working

Jonathan Roberts (20:15):

No controversially at can. During the festival of advertising that we have as a publisher, we may be the most confident to say, you know what? Advertising works.

Damian Fowler (20:27):

You recently brought in a dedicated president to lead

Jonathan Roberts (20:30):

Decipher,

Damian Fowler (20:30):

Right? So how does that help you take what started out as this in-house innovation that you've been working on and turn it into something even bigger?

Jonathan Roberts (20:39):

Yeah, I think my background is physics. I was a theoretical physicist for a decade. Theoretical physicists have some good and bad traits. A good trait is a belief that everything can be solved. Because my previous job was wake up in the morning and figure out how the universe began and like, well, today I'll figure it out. And nobody else has, right? There's a level of, let's call it intellectual confidence or arrogance in that approach. How hard can it be? The answer is very, but it also means you're a little bit of a diante, right? You're coming like, oh, it's ad tech. How hard can it be? And the just vary, right? So there's a benefit. I mean, I've done a lot of work in ad tech over the last couple of years. Jim Lawson, our president of Decipher, ran a publicly listed DSP, right? He was a public company, CEO, he knows this stuff inside a and back to front, Lindsay Van Kirk on the Cipher team launched the ADN Nexus, DSP, Patrick McCarthy, who runs all of our open web and a lot of our trade desk partnerships and the execution of all of the ways we connect into the entire ecosystem.

(21:38):

Ran product for AppNexus. Sam Selgin on the data science team wrote that Nexus bitter. I've got a good idea where we're going with this and where we should go with this and the direction we should be pointed in. But we have seasoned multi-decade experience pros doing the work because if you don't, you can have a good idea and bad execution, then you didn't do anything. Unless you can execute to the highest level, it won't actually work. And so we've had to bring in, I'm very glad we have brought in and love having them on the team. These people who can really take the beginnings of what we have and really take this to the scale that needs to be. Decipher. Plus is a framework for understanding user intent at Webscale and getting performance for our clients and unlocking a premium at Webscale. That is a huge project to go after and pull off. We have so many case studies proving that it will work, but we have a long way to go between where we are and where this thing naturally gets to. And that takes a lot of people with a lot of professional skills to go to.

Damian Fowler (22:43):

What's one thing right now that you're obsessed with figuring out

Jonathan Roberts (22:46):

To take a complete left turn, but it is the topic up and down the Cosette this summer. There isn't currently any viable model for information economy in an AI future. There's lots of ideas of what it would be, but there isn't a subtle marketplace for this. We've got a very big two-sided marketplace for information. It's called Google and search. That's obviously changing. We haven't got to a point to understand what that future is. But if AI is powered by chips, power and content, if you're a chip investor, you're in a good place. If you're investing energy, you're in a good place of the three picks and shovels investments, content is probably the most undervalued at the moment. Lots of people are starting to realize that and building under the hood what that could look like. How that evolves in the next year is going to really determine what kind of information gets created because markets align to their incentives. If you build the marketplace well, you're going to end up with great content, great journalism, great creativity. If you build it wrong, you're going to have a bunch of cheap slop getting flooded the marketplace. And we are not going to fund great journalism. So that's at a moment in time where that future is getting determined and we have a very strong set of opinions on the publishing side, what that should look like. And I am very keen to make sure it gets done. You sound

Damian Fowler (24:17):

Optimistic.

Jonathan Roberts (24:19):

A year ago, the VCs and the technologists believed if you just slammed enough information into an AI system, you'd never need content ever again. And that the brain itself was the moat. Then deep seek proved that the brain wasn't a moat. That reasoning is a commodity because we found out that China could do it cheaper and faster, and we were shocked, shocked that China could do it cheaper and faster. And then the open source community rebuilt deep to in 48 hours, which was the real killer. So if reasoning is a commodity, which it is now, then content is king, right? Because reasoning on its own is free, but if you're grounding it in quality content, your answer's better. But the market dynamics have not caught up to that reality. But that is the reality. So I am optimistic that content goes back to our premium position in this. Now we just have to do all the boring stuff of figuring out what a viable marketplace looks like, how people get paid, all of this, all the hard work, but there's now a future model to align to.

Damian Fowler (25:23):

I love that. Alright, I've got to ask you this question. It's the last one, but I was going to ask it. You spent time building maps, visualizing data, and I've looked at your site, it's brilliant. Is there anything from that side of your creativity that helped you think differently about building say something like decipher?

Jonathan Roberts (25:42):

Yeah. So I think it won't surprise anyone to find out that I'm a massive nerd, right? I used to play d and d, I still do. We have my old high school group still convenes on Sunday afternoons, and we play d and d over Discord. Fantasy maps have been an obsession of mine for a long time. I did the fantasy maps of Game of Thrones. I'm George r Martin's cartographer. I published the book Lands of Ice and Fire with him. Maps are infographics. A map is a way of taking a complex system that you cannot visualize and bringing it to a world in which you can reason about it. I spent a lot of my life taking complex systems that nobody can visualize and building models and frameworks that help people reason about 'em and make decisions in a shared way. At this moment, as you're walking up and down the cosette, there is no map for the future. Nobody has a map, nobody has a plan. Not Google, not Microsoft, not Amazon, not our friends at OpenAI. Nobody knows what's coming. And so even just getting, but lots of people have ideas and opinions and thoughts and directions. So taking all that input and rationalize again to like, okay, if we lay it out like this, what breaks? Being able to logically reason about those virtual scenario. It is exactly the same process, that mental model as Matt.

Damian Fowler (27:12):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression. This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by loving caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns. And remember,

Jonathan Roberts (27:22):

We do not as much tell the world what to think about. The world tells us what they care about. Data's lovely, but unless you do something with it, it's useless.

Damian Fowler (27:31):

I'm Damian, and we'll see you next time.

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Spotify’s Brian Berner joins The Big Impression to talk about how brands are looking for speed, flexibility and smarter ways to connect with audiences. 

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.