Why didn’t Meta’s stock move when Mark Zuckerberg announced his pro-MAGA pivot? Why do big media companies want to dump their cable TV networks — but hang on to their broadcast TV networks? What’s going to happen in Google’s antitrust case?These are all good questions, right? I think so, too. So I posed them, along with many more, to MoffettNathanson’s Michael Nathanson, one of the sharpest Wall Street analysts covering tech and media. We cover a lot of ground in a short time, and I think you’ll enjoy this one.

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I’m a lucky man. Whenever I’m baffled by the internet, and social media, I turn to my co-worker Katie Notopoulos, who is there to explain it to me. That’s because Katie’s job at Business Insider is to explain how the internet works — how the people who run big internet platforms want it to work, and what the people who actually use those platforms do on it, for better and for worse. So that’s what we’re talking about today, to help ease us into the new year.

Discussed here: Why Katie still loves the internet and technology, even with all of its many warts; how she came to be a professional chronicler of the internet; how her views on all of this are changing as her kids grow older; and poop. Lots of poop talk here. You’re gonna love it.

Note: We recorded this chat on January 6 — a day before Mark Zuckerberg announced he was going to reshape his entire company to accommodate the upcoming Trump administration. So that’s why it’s not in this conversation. Rest assured - we’ll be talking about this a lot in future episodes. Happy 2025!

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I don’t love a lot of year-end #content . But I do love talking to Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw every year, to help put the year in media in perspective, and to think about what might be coming in 2025. And that’s exactly what we did here. Enjoy it now, or over your break. We’ll see you again in January.

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Newsletters are not a new idea. Yet every few years the media business rediscovers them, anyway — either as a way to quickly launch a startup with bigger ambitions, or as a standalone business. Tim Huelskamp took the second route in 2017, when he co-founded 1440 — a newsletter that promises to quickly bring you the most important news of the day. Again — not a new idea. But Huelskamp seems to have figured out how to build something pretty big: He says 1440 has 4 million readers, and is turning a profit on something like $20 million in annual revenue. How’d he do it? What’s he going to do next? And how will he compete with AI companies that can do all of this faster, and cheaper? I’m glad you asked: I’ve got the same questions, so I asked him myself.

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You probably shouldn't know Renee DiResta's name: She's a researcher who studies online bad behavior, not a celebrity. But the work DiReata did studying the "stop the steal" movement after 2020 has made her famous in some corners of the internet, and not in a good way: She's been harassed, pelted with subpoenas and sued twice.

Now things could get really unpleasant for her.

Donald Trump's victory means that a lot of people who have target dDiResta in the past are newly ascendant. But she tells me she's more worried about a chilling effect that could hamper anyone who's trying to learn about, and fix social media's ills. Also discussed here: what not to do when you go on Joe Rogan.

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Lots of people start media companies using money from rich people. Jason Koebler and his colleagues did it themselves, using a grand total of $4,000. That was back in the summer of 2023. Now 404 Media, the tech news + investigations site they started after leaving Vice Media, is a success story. Koebler tells us how they started, how it’s going, and what he’d like to do next.

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Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Bari Weiss all used to work for big mainstream media companies. Now they’re on the internet, building their own companies, with the help of Chris Balfe.

Balfe’s Red Seat Ventures helps online creators set up shop, produce programming, and — crucially — helps them monetize through ad sales and/or subscriptions. Balfe got his start working with Glenn Beck when the former Fox News star left and started his own online business. I always assumed we’d see other high-profile talent follow Beck’s footsteps, but it took much longer than I thought. Now it’s a reality, and the talent Balfe works with may very well have helped re-elect Donald Trump.

You can’t escape politics when you talk to someone who works with Tucker Carlson, and we spend a little bit of time on that in our chat. But this is really a discussion about how online media — primarily podcasts and YouTube — works today, and where it’s going next.

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One take you may have heard after the election: Democrats need their own Joe Rogan.

Taylor Lorenz disagrees. And Lorenz is worth listening to. For years, she has been a really sharp observer of social media and online spaces, and she built a high-profile career explaining the internet for audiences at places like the Atlantic, the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Now Lorenz is on her own, which is where she says she always wanted to end up. We talked about how and why she left the Post this year. And how she’s thinking about building her career without the advantages – and disadvantages — that come from working for a big organization.

But first we talk about the podcast election (which was also the YouTube election) and where she thinks the Harris campaign went wrong. And why she thinks liberals don’t need their own Rogan — and why they can’t get one, anyway.

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You want up-to-the minute election analysis? Sorry, not on this episode.

But: If you want smart thoughts about politics and media and tech all merged together? We got you here, courtesy of The Atlantic’s Charlie Warzel, who came on to discuss how we should think about Elon Musk, Donald Trump supporter, being the same person as Elon Musk, guy who owns Twitter. Plus, because it’s Charlie: A useful way to think about what misinformation is, and isn’t.

And! If you don’t want politics in your podcast today, we can accommodate that too, via a chat with Griffin Gaffney, the CEO/publisher of the San Francisco Standard. The Standard, owned by billionaire Mike Moritz, is a three-year-old news startup that lots of people in the Bay Area seem to love. And I wanted to know how he’s making it work, and the pros and cons of having a billionaire owner, and how he thinks the paper might actually turn a profit some day.

Ideally, you’ll listen to both of these chats. But it’s a podcast! You do you.

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Jon Lovett and his cofounders at Crooked Media are a good story - former Obama aides who started their own media company after the 2016 election, and are now generating 25 million podcast downloads a month. But for a few weeks this summer, after they became prominent voices in the push to replace Joe Biden on the Democratic ticket, their story got even more interesting. I’ve wanted to talk to Lovett about that experience for months, so a week before the election seems like good timing, no? Also discussed here: How to navigate a media landscape dominated by Donald Trump; Elon Musk, and the upside of getting kicked off of Survivor.

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