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The BlueHat Podcast
By MicrosoftTechnology
The BlueHat Podcast episodes
- Secret Herbs, Spices and Hacking Copilot Studio
In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, host Nic Fillingham is joined by Scott Gorlick, Security Architect for Power Platform at Microsoft. Scott shares his unconventional journey into cybersecurity, from managing a KFC to driving big rigs before landing in tech. He dives into security research in Copilot Studio, discussing how AI models interact with security frameworks and how researchers can approach testing these systems. We also explore his recent training video on YouTube, which provides guidance for security researchers looking to engage with Microsoft’s bug bounty program.
In This Episode You Will Learn:
- What Scott does to ensure Power Platform applications remain governable and secure
- Why security and software quality go hand in hand in modern development.
- How security researchers can explore vulnerabilities in Microsoft's low-code AI development platform
Some Questions We Ask:
- What kinds of security issues should researchers focus on in Copilot Studio?
- Can Copilot help researchers write better reports, especially in different languages?
- How can researchers get access to Copilot Studio? Is there a free version?
Resources:
View Scott Gorlick on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Security Research in Copilot Studio Overview and Training on YouTube
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
44 min - Automating Dynamic Application Security Testing at Scale
In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Jason Geffner, Principal Security Architect at Microsoft, to discuss his groundbreaking work on scaling and automating Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST). Following on from his BlueHat 2024 session, and outlined in this MSRC blog post, Jason explains the key differences between DAST, SAST, and IAST, and dives into the challenges of scaling DAST at Microsoft’s enterprise level, detailing how automation eliminates manual configuration and improves efficiency for web service testing.
In This Episode You Will Learn:
- Overcoming the challenges of authenticated requests for DAST tools
- The importance of API specs for DAST and how automation streamlines the process
- Insights into how Microsoft uses DAST to protect its vast array of web services
Some Questions We Ask:
- What's a lesson from this work that you can share with those without Microsoft's resources?
- Can you explain what the transparent auth protocol is that you mentioned in the blog post?
- How is your work reducing the manual effort needed to configure DAST system services?
Resources:
View Jason Geffner on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Blog Post: Scaling Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) | MSRC Blog
Related BlueHat Session Recording: BlueHat 2024: S10: How Microsoft is Scaling DAST
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
46 min - Refactoring the Windows Kernel with Joe Bialek
In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by BlueHat 2024 presenter Joe Bialek, a security engineer at Microsoft with over 13 years of experience. Joe shares his fascinating journey from intern to red team pioneer, recounting how he helped establish the Office 365 Red Team and pushed the boundaries of ethical hacking within Microsoft. He discusses his formative years building sneaky hacking tools, navigating the controversial beginnings of red teaming, and transitioning to the Windows Security Team to focus on low-level security and mitigations. Joe reflects on the challenges of internal hacking, the human reactions to being "hacked," and the value of strengthening defenses before external threats arise.
In This Episode You Will Learn:
- How Microsoft is developing tooling to identify and address bad programming patterns
- Why kernel-related discussions are primarily focused on Windows and driver developers
- The challenges developers face when reading and writing through pointers in C or C++
Some Questions We Ask:
- How does working with the Windows kernel impact system security and performance?
- What sets Windows kernel and driver development apart from other types of development?
- Why should internal teams test systems for vulnerabilities before external hackers?
Resources:
View Joe Bialek on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
BlueHat 2024 Session: Pointer Problems – Why We’re Refactoring the Windows Kernel
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden Risks
Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.
48 min - Defending Against NTLM Relay Attacks with Rohit Mothe and George Hughey
In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone welcome back George Hughey and Rohit Mothe from the Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC) to discuss their latest blog post on mitigating NTLM relay attacks by default. George and Rohit explain their roles in vulnerability hunting and delve into NTLM, a 40-year-old authentication protocol, outlining its vulnerabilities and the risks of relay attacks, which function as a type of man-in-the-middle exploit. They highlight Microsoft's move to a "secure by default" approach, ensuring mitigations like channel binding are enabled automatically, providing stronger protections across services like Exchange, Active Directory Certificate Services (ADCS), and LDAP.
In This Episode You Will Learn:
- Steps users can take to enhance security in their environments
- Why legacy protocols remain a challenge and what the future might hold
- The challenges and successes of improving authentication security
Some Questions We Ask:
- What is an NTLM relay attack, and how does it work?
- Can you explain channel binding and its role in preventing NTLM relay attacks?
- What challenges arise from modernizing authentication in complex environments?
Resources:
View George Hughey on LinkedIn
View Rohit Mothe on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
41 min - Navigating AI Safety and Security Challenges with Yonatan Zunger [Encore]
Yonatan Zunger, CVP of AI Safety & Security at Microsoft joins Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone on this week's episode of The BlueHat Podcast. Yonatan explains the distinction between generative and predictive AI, noting that while predictive AI excels in classification and recommendation, generative AI focuses on summarizing and role-playing. He highlights how generative AI's ability to process natural language and role-play has vast potential, though its applications are still emerging. He contrasts this with predictive AI's strength in handling large datasets for specific tasks. Yonatan emphasizes the importance of ethical considerations in AI development, stressing the need for continuous safety engineering and diverse perspectives to anticipate and mitigate potential failures. He provides examples of AI's positive and negative uses, illustrating the importance of designing systems that account for various scenarios and potential misuses.
In This Episode You Will Learn:- How predictive AI anticipates outcomes based on historical data
- The difficulties and strategies involved in making AI systems safe and secure from misuse
- How role-playing exercises help developers understand the behavior of AI systems
Some Questions We Ask:- What distinguishes predictive AI from generative AI?
- Can generative AI be used to improve decision-making processes?
- What is the role of unit testing and test cases in policy and AI system development?
Resources:View Yonatan Zunger on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
54 min - Johann Rehberger on Researching AI & LLM Attacks
In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Johann Rehberger, security expert and Red Team director at Electronic Arts. Johann shares his career journey through roles at Microsoft, Uber, and EA, highlighting his expertise in red teaming and cybersecurity. Johann shares the inspiration behind his book on Red Team strategies and discusses his BlueHat 2024 talk on prompt injection vulnerabilities, a critical and evolving AI security challenge. Johann breaks down the distinction between prompt injection and jailbreaking, offering insights into the potential risks, including data exfiltration and system unavailability, and emphasizes the importance of securing Red Teams themselves.
In This Episode You Will Learn:
- Why AI tools should have stricter default settings to control what kind of outputs they generate
- The importance of reading technical documentation to understand how AI systems are built
- Why developers should implement stronger filters for what tokens are allowed to be emitted by LLMs
Some Questions We Ask:
- How are prompt injection and SQL injection similar, and how are they different?
- What is AI spyware, and how does it exploit memory tools in ChatGPT?
- Does AI jailbreaking access the LLM’s core system like iPhone jailbreaking does the OS?
Resources:
View Johann Rehberger on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
50 min - BlueHat 2024 Day 2 Keynote: Amanda Silver, CVP Microsoft Developer Division
In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone present an insightful address by Corporate Vice President and Head of Product for Microsoft's Developer Division, Amanda Silver. Amanda discusses the importance of securing the software supply chain and Microsoft's efforts to protect the open-source ecosystem. She introduces the Secure Software Supply Chain Consumption Framework (S2C2F), a model for tracking and defending against vulnerabilities in open-source dependencies. Silver highlights tools like Dependabot and improvements in NuGet to help developers address security issues seamlessly. She also shares a case study on the "XZ" supply chain attack, underscoring the need for a security mindset in tech culture. Silver closes by urging listeners to adopt a proactive approach to cybersecurity, emphasizing that attacks are inevitable.
Resources:
View Amanda Silver on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.
46 min - BlueHat 2024 Day 1 Keynote: Chris Wysopal AKA Weld Pond
In episode 41 of The BlueHat Podcast we bring you the BlueHat 2024 day 1 keynote address given by Chris Wysopal, also known as Weld Pond, founder and Chief Security Evangelist at VeraCode, and founding member of the L0pht.
Chris’ talk - A Clash of Cultures Comes Together to Change Software Security - recounts the early days of “hacking” and how the industry evolved to embrace vulnerability discovery and coordinated, responsible disclosure.
Chris presentation provides a fascinating reflection on a tumultuous period for Microsoft around 2001, marked by significant vulnerability discoveries, which ultimately led to the establishment of the Organization for Internet Safety and the consultancy AtStake, transforming the security landscape and professionalizing the role of hackers. Watch Chris’ BlueHat 2024 Day 1 Keynote here: https://youtu.be/w6SAqT4ZQik
Resources:
View Chris Wysopal on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
48 min - From Software to Security: Arjun Gopalakrishna’s Journey at Microsoft
In this episode of the Blue Hat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Arjun Gopalakrishna, a security engineer at Microsoft, to discuss his fascinating journey from software engineer to security leader. Arjun reflects on his 11-year tenure at Microsoft, including how a childhood experience with a computer virus sparked his curiosity in cybersecurity. He talks about his early exposure to security issues while working in Windows and his eventual transition to Azure security. Arjun also shares insights into how he began presenting security talks internally through Microsoft's Strike program and how he continues to use storytelling to make complex security concepts approachable for colleagues across the company.
In This Episode You Will Learn:
- The importance of empathy and accessibility when discussing technical vulnerabilities
- Why Arjun honed his focus on cloud security, application security, and offensive security.
- How Microsoft's internal Strike platform helps employees build a deeper understanding of cybersecurity
Some Questions We Ask:
- Can you walk us through how you honed in on a specific area of security?
- What are your tips for bringing non-security professionals into a security mindset?
- Is there anything you're specifically working on within SFI?
Resources:
View Arjun Gopalakrishna on LinkedIn
View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:
Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.
44 min - Host vs Host: Get to Know Nic and Wendy
In this episode of the Blue Hat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone interview each other to give listeners insight into their personal and professional backgrounds. Nic recounts his unique career journey, which began with jobs like working as a chicken butcher and selling CDs, before joining Microsoft as an Xbox demo specialist. His career with Microsoft spanned various roles, ultimately leading him to work on the Blue Hat program, where he was captivated by the concept of ethical hacking. Wendy, on the other hand, shares her transition from PR into security, with stops at Netflix and Salesforce, and her current role at Microsoft leading the Strike program.
In This Episode You Will Learn:- Wendy’s experience buying chicken from a stranger in a parking lot
- Nic’s encounter with The Rock during a wrestling game demo
- Wendy starting in public relations before transitioning to the security world
Some Questions We Ask:- How did attending an all-women’s software engineering school influence your career shift?
- What do you enjoy most about working in the security field?
- What advice do you have for women looking to enter the security industry?
Resources:View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn
View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn
Related Microsoft Podcasts:Microsoft Threat Intelligence PodcastAfternoon Cyber Tea with Ann JohnsonUncovering Hidden RisksDiscover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts
The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.
36 min
About The BlueHat Podcast
From the publisher's feed
Since 2005, BlueHat has been where the security research community, and Microsoft, come together as peers; to debate, discuss, share, challenge, celebrate and learn. On The BlueHat Podcast,…
Microsoft and MSRC’s Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone will host conversations with researchers and industry leaders, both inside and outside of Microsoft, working to secure the planet’s technology and create a safer world for all.