Your best clients won’t come from Google. Josh Baron and marketing strategist Danny Decker are here to prove it. In this episode, they unpack why small law firms should focus less on ad spend and more on relationships, referrals, and repeat clients. You’ll learn how to stay top of mind with your network through smart email and social media strategies that actually feel human. If you’ve ever wondered how to grow your firm without selling your soul to Google, this one’s for you.

Josh Baron and Mark Butler explore the ethical dilemmas lawyers face when business pressures collide with professional duty. Josh argues that financial stability is essential for lawyers to consistently make client-centered decisions, emphasizing how flat fees, trust accounts, and referral networks shape both risk and reputation. Listeners will gain practical insights into aligning law firm economics with integrity and why solving “business” problems is often the key to better legal service.

This episode is a LIVE recording from a BYU Law School class, where defense attorney Josh Baron talks about what it means to represent people who’ve been accused of wrongdoing, and why he sees Jesus as the ultimate criminal defense lawyer. The conversation dives into how faith, scripture, and the justice system overlap, with students asking real questions about advocacy, the justice system, and the business of law.

Join Brian Glass and Josh Baron as they delve into the art of relationship management and its transformative impact on referral-based law practices. They explore strategies like targeted outreach to referral partners and the 'Dream 100' approach to network building, emphasizing authenticity and trust in professional partnerships.

In this episode, Josh Baron speaks with Natey Ndlovu, a lawyer in the midst of transitioning from firm life to starting her own criminal defense practice. As Natey navigates her final days at her current firm, she shares the overwhelming challenges of managing deadlines, client notifications, and the emotional aspects of making a major career change. Josh offers practical time management insights for knowledge workers and shares his own journey of creating better boundaries around client consultations.

Key Takeaways

Time Management for Knowledge Workers

• Time management isn't a problem to "solve" but part of the human condition
• Knowledge work can't be measured by the same metrics as factory work
• Looking at monthly results rather than hourly productivity often provides a better measure of success
• Sometimes activities that don't look productive (like staring out the window) can lead to breakthrough insights

The Emotional Side of Transitions

• Leaving a firm often feels like "breaking up" with someone when you know it's not working out
• The relief of finally making the decision can be significant
• Managing transitions involves both practical and emotional challenges

Better Ways to Measure Your Day

• Instead of counting tasks completed, ask: "Was I engaged? Was I kind?"
• To-do lists will never be completely finished - making peace with this is essential
• Sometimes necessary work isn't exciting but still needs to be done

The Consultation Block Strategy

• Setting specific times for consultations instead of being always available
• Having staff screen potential clients to ensure fit
• Results in higher sign-up rates and better preparation
• Allows you to show up as your best self for client interactions

Overcoming Fear of Setting Boundaries

• Initial fears about losing business are often unfounded
• Setting boundaries can actually improve both client experience and your quality of life
• The "catastrophizing" mindset often prevents positive practice improvements

Mentioned Resources

• "Four Thousand Weeks" by Oliver Burkeman
• "Meditations for Mortals" by Oliver Burkeman
• "Slow Productivity" by Cal Newport

About Natey Ndlovu

Natey is transitioning from an established law firm to launching her own criminal defense practice. Her experience includes working as a public defender.

Natey's firm: Cornick Ndlovu, PLC
https://www.virginia-criminal.com/

Connect With Us

• The Business of Law Podcast: https://businessoflaw.transistor.fm/
• Josh Baron: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabaron/
• Have a topic suggestion or want to be a guest? Email [email protected]

This conversation with California-based R.J. Dreiling was so much fun! We discuss potential client consultations, energy and time management, and criminal defense as an art, not a science.

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"Sock Hop" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

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We were recently selected to some best of lists!

https://podcast.feedspot.com/criminal_law_podcasts/
https://podcast.feedspot.com/criminal_defense_podcasts/

Check out some clips from a recent conversation I had with Isaac Ortega, the founder of Ortega Law Group, and some thoughts I had after our conversation. We discussed his beautiful referral relationship process, as well as how to prioritize your well-being.

Music Credit:
"Sock Hop" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

In this episode, Joshua takes you on a journey through the landscape of legal niches, aiming to help criminal lawyers discover the perfect size for their defense practice.

Ever wondered if you're being specific enough in your niche? Joshua shares anecdotes from his own legal adventures and conversations with industry experts, including the invaluable advice from his friend Marco Brown, a standout divorce and custody lawyer.

Josh challenges conventional wisdom on niches, exploring the delicate balance between specificity and broadness. Forget the jargon; this episode is all about making it easy for your referral partners to send clients your way. Josh breaks down the elements of a successful referrak habit loop, emphasizing the importance of being obvious, attractive, easy, and satisfying.

From the practical side of tailoring your pitch to different audiences to the crucial considerations of market support and client motivation, Joshua provides a roadmap for lawyers looking to carve out their niche successfully.

Join Josh Baron in "Navigating Niches" as he breaks down the myths, shares real talk, and sets you on the path to niche mastery. It's time to find that sweet spot for your criminal defense practice. Tune in and level up your criminal defense game!

In this episode, Josh reviews the complicated nature of paying referral fees and the ways they can transform a sincere relationship into a transaction. Instead, focus your efforts on delivering an excellent experience to the referred client and honoring the trust of the referral partner. 

In this episode, Josh discusses the difficulty of measuring a lawyer's "quality" and the value of focusing more on the immediate concerns of the client and less on the outcome of the case. In many instances, the outcome will have little bearing on the client's overall feeling toward you as a law practitioner. On the contrary, if you address and reduce the underlying anxieties a client may feel toward the case, you have a better chance of earning their trust and higher ratings.