The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor

By 97th FloorBusiness Marketing

The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor episodes

October 13Attribution Is Dead. Now What? w/ Rand Fishkin, CEO & Co-Founder of SparkToro
This episode unpacks why zero-click search now defines marketing. We look at new data on how much search activity never results in a click, why attribution was always shakier than it looked, and why short-form video and audience research are now a marketer's real edge.
Key takeaways:
Zero-click search keeps climbing: Over two-thirds of Google searches now end without a click, the fastest growth in over a decade.
Attribution was mostly an illusion: Paid ads get credit by default because they generate a click, even when organic influence drove the sale.
Short-form video is the new superpower: It holds attention better than any format before it, on every platform.
Reddit builds reach, not clicks: Low click-through, but outsized influence on journalists and other tastemakers.
Brand still wins: Recognition, not best practices, increasingly drives both search and AI visibility.
Resources:
Pre-order Rand’s new book, Zero Click Marketing: https://zeroclickmarketing.co/book
Connect with Rand on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Rand Fishkin:
Rand Fishkin is CEO and cofounder of three companies: SparkToro, makers of fine audience research software, pun-filled Google Alerts alternative Alertmouse, and indie game developer Snackbar Studio.
He’s the co-author (with Amanda Natividad) of the upcoming Zero Click Marketing and 2018’s Lost and Founder. When Rand’s not working, he’s usually traveling with or cooking a fancy meal for the love of his life, bestselling author Geraldine DeRuiter.
Timestamps:
00:40 - Updated data on zero-click search since the last episode
04:41 - Zero-click searches jump to 67%, the fastest growth in a decade
09:27 - Why paid media keeps getting credit organic actually earned
17:36 - Short-form video as marketing's biggest current edge
31:31 - Rand's Reddit distribution strategy and why it works
42:00 - Convincing executives to invest in the right channels
40 min
September 15Why Credibility is The New Brand Currency in an AI World w/ Rachel Neppes, Alliance Marketing and PR Lead at Targus
AI has made it easier than ever to flood the market with content, and that's exactly the problem. Rachel Neppes, who manages Alliance Marketing and PR for Targus, makes the case that credibility is now the only real differentiator in a world where audiences can feel the difference between authentic storytelling and generated noise. In this conversation, she breaks down how brands build credibility systematically across every channel, why most partnerships don't move the needle, and what it actually takes to earn trust when skepticism is at an all-time high.
Key Takeaways:
AI content creates noise, not trust. Use it to strengthen your message, not replace your voice. Audiences are more skeptical than ever and can feel the difference.
Every company needs an AI content policy. Disclosure isn't weakness; transparency is what keeps your audience believing you.
Credibility is an ecosystem. Owned, earned, and paid content all need to run on the same credible messaging, and third-party validation carries more weight than anything you say about yourself.
Don't stop at the win. A media placement loses value fast if you're not amplifying it internally and across channels.
Resources:
Learn more about Targus: targus.com
Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelneppes/
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Rachel Neppes: Rachel Neppes is a marketing leader focused on building brand credibility and relevance that drive demand and growth.
At Targus, Rachel leads Alliance marketing and global communications, advancing partnerships, go-to-market strategy, and positioning to strengthen market presence and drive measurable business impact.
Timestamps:
1:46 - Why AI content becomes noise
2:48 - How Rachel defines credibility
5:30 - Every business needs an AI policy
6:03 - Credibility as an ecosystem
10:13 - The mistake of cutting PR budgets
16:14 - Where to start building credibility
22 min
September 01How to get your team to ACTUALLY dive into AI w/ Pete Larkin, Co-Founder of UXM
Most people know they should be using AI more. Almost nobody knows how to actually get there. Pete Larkin, GTM engineer, AI builder, and host of the AI Deep Dive podcast, has done the unglamorous work of figuring it out through time-blocked late nights, robotics projects with his kids, and a family operating system he's building to become a better father and spouse.
In this conversation, Pete and Paxton walk through the most common barriers to AI adoption, pulled directly from a real survey, and tackle each one head-on with practical, honest advice.
Key takeaways:
Time is the #1 blocker: Time-block 45 minutes daily. Leaders must build AI learning into work hours, not personal time.
Start with $20: Claude Pro at $20/month is Pete's first recommendation. Don't overthink cost until you're deep into API builds.
Hallucinations are dropping, but taste still matters: The real skill is knowing when to trust AI output and when to verify it.
The churning butter take on dependency: Some skills will go obsolete and that's fine. Protect your critical thinking by using AI as a thought companion, not a shortcut.
The TIME framework: Taste, Impact, Matching, and Elevate offers a practical lens for deciding how and when to deploy AI versus human judgment.
Resources:
TheAIDeepDive: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ai-deep-dive/id1836482206
Utah marketing events: www.theumx.com
Connect with Pete on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peteralarkin/
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Pete Larkin: Pete Larkin began his career in film, running a successful production company before realizing he wanted more influence over the strategy behind the work. That led him into marketing, where his film background and training from one of the nation’s top ad schools helped him build a career as a marketing executive, entrepreneur, and creator.
Today, he has evolved again... this time into GTM engineering and AI orchestration. He now helps organizations and individuals navigate the fast-moving world of AI through agents, workflows, workshops, and consulting.

Timestamps:
03:32 – The #1 barrier to AI adoption: time, and how to work around it
10:45 – Hallucinations and trust: knowing when to double-check AI's work
17:40 – The TASTE framework for winning with AI
20:02 – Inside Pete's AI side projects, from a family "operating system" to a daily newsletter podcast
29 min
August 18What Most Marketers Get Wrong About Influence w/ Dr. Robert Cialdini, Author of Influence
Dr. Robert Cialdini has spent his career researching the science of why people say yes, and his seven principles of influence have become the backbone of how the world's best marketers, salespeople, and leaders communicate. In this conversation, he shares where marketers consistently misapply his research, how AI is making the line between influence and manipulation harder to hold, and what the science actually says about techniques most people think they already understand.
Key takeaways for marketing leaders:
In authority vs. an authority: Most managers confuse power with persuasion. One lasts, one doesn't.
Stop manufacturing urgency: If a real constraint exists, point to it. And limited number always beats limited time.
Give first, make it tailored: The McDonald's balloon study showed parents spent 25% more when the gift came before the order, not after.
Humanize everything: In-person asks are 16x more effective than email. A video call cuts that to 2x.
Resources:
The Cialdini Institute is giving 97th Floor followers their Cialdini Influence Assessment for free for 30 days. Use code 97FLOOR at checkout: https://assessment.cialdini.com/

They’re also offering 20% off the Cialdini Certified Practitioner Course. Use code 97FLOORCCP at checkout: https://cialdini.com/certified-practitioner
Connect with Dr. Cialdini on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertcialdini
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Dr. Cialdini: Robert Cialdini, a thought leader in the fields of influence and persuasion, has spent his career publishing scientific research on what causes people to say “Yes” to requests. The results of his research, his ensuing articles, and his New York Times bestselling books have led to his election to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Science.
His 7 Principles of Persuasion have become a cornerstone for any organization serious about significantly increasing its influence, while doing so ethically.
As a keynote speaker, Dr. Cialdini is renowned for his ability to translate the science of influence through valuable and memorable stories that result in immediate and long-term business applications.
His books, including his New York Times Bestselling Influence and Pre-Suasion, have sold more than seven-million copies in 50 languages. As a result, he is frequently regarded as “The Godfather of Influence”.
Timestamps:
1:05 - AI, citation rates, and the persuasion arms race
9:12 - Being "in authority" vs. being "an authority"
16:18 - Warren Buffett's credibility trick
26:44 - The McDonald's balloon study
44:32 - Daniel Kahneman's biggest influence on Cialdini
31 min
August 04AI Search: What’s Wrong with Everything Your Dashboard is Telling You w/Ted Coxworth, President of Extensor
As cookies disappear, AI search obscures organic traffic, and paid media consumes a growing share of marketing budgets, attribution has never been more complex—or more consequential. Ted Coxworth, President of Extensor,, has been building Media Mix Models since 2013, and in this episode he breaks down why most measurement stacks are quietly leading marketers into an expensive trap.
Ted walks through the difference between MMM, MTA, and incrementality testing—and why the smartest measurement programs use all three. He also tackles the AI overview problem head-on: why last-click models can't touch it, and why correlation-based modeling is currently the best tool available for measuring its impact.
Key takeaways:
Last-click is costing you: Over-reliance on easily attributable channels captures demand but stops generating it, and most measurement systems won't tell you that's happening
MMM was built for this moment: Cookie loss, AI overviews, zero-click search—MMM's correlation-based approach sidesteps all of it
Better measurement changes the conversation: When you can prove multi-touch influence, you earn the budget to invest where it actually matters
Resources:
Learn about Ted's work at goextensor.com
Connect with Ted on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ted-coxworth-4330568b
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Ted Coxworth:
Ted Coxworth is President of Extensor,, a marketing measurement firm that shows brands what's working, what's not, and how to get more from their media budget. He works with both in-house marketing teams and agencies to assess channels ranging from Google and Meta to billboards and radio, giving him a front-row seat to the measurement challenges across B2B and B2C businesses alike. He believes every marketer deserves an honest picture of how their budget works.
Timestamps:
1:54 - MMM as the answer to cookie decay
5:39 - What media mix modeling actually is
7:37 - Weather, competitors, and surprise data
11:11 - MMM, incrementality testing, and MTA as a trio
15:03 - AI search's measurement blind spot
21:27 - Why paid media's budget share keeps climbing
28 min
July 21The New SEO Pipeline: How Brands Win in AI Search w/Kevin Indig, Organic Growth Advisor
AI search doesn't work like classic SEO. Kevin Indig breaks down the new pipeline brands need to win in AI search: getting retrieved, getting cited, and getting trusted. He and Paxton dig into why citations don't guarantee mentions, why original data still beats everything else, and why the old click funnel no longer tells you what's working.
Key takeaways:
Retrieved isn't cited: Being crawled by an LLM only makes you eligible for citation, not guaranteed.
Mentions beat citations: Users act on brand mentions, not source links, and the ratio varies by LLM.
Trust beats position: Users pick the top result in a shortlist 75% of the time, unless a trusted brand shows up anywhere on the list.
Self-reported attribution is the new north star: Click funnels break in AI search, so ask customers directly how they found you.
Resources:
Sign up for the Growth Memo Newsletter: https://www.growth-memo.com/
Check out Kevin’s work: https://www.kevin-indig.com/
Connect with Kevin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinindig
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Kevin Indig:
Kevin has led organic growth at Atlassian, G2, and Shopify, and now advises companies like Meta, Ramp, and Upwork on building cost-efficient acquisition channels.

He is the author of Growth Memo, a weekly newsletter read by 26,000+ leaders, and speaks globally on growth strategy.
Timestamps:
1:06 - The retrieved, cited, trusted framework
6:23 - The ghost citation problem
9:57 - How to test selection bias
14:18 - Original data and information gain
21:23 - Duplicate content isn't a risk anymore
28:07 - Self-reported attribution over the click funnel
32 min
July 07Why the Best CMOs Are Getting Comfortable With Ambiguity w/Sam Brown, VP of Client Services @ 97th Floor
The attribution model marketers have relied on for years was never as reliable as we wanted to believe. Sam Brown, VP of Strategy at 97th Floor, makes the case that the zero-click era isn't just changing how we measure marketing, it's forcing us to finally do marketing the right way.
In this conversation, Sam breaks down why the obsession with credit and channel-specific metrics has made marketers worse at their jobs, and what the shift to audience-first, bottom-line thinking actually looks like in practice.
Key takeaways:
Perfect attribution was always a myth, and chasing it is costing you more than you think
Brand mentions in AI matter more than citations; visibility is the new conversion
Audience research isn't a fluffy deliverable; it's the only real foundation for GEO strategy
Blending your team's roles around revenue instead of channels is the competitive advantage AI makes possible
Resources:
Reach Sam at: [email protected]
Connect with Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brownsamanthak
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Sam Brown: Sam has been a marketing leader for over 7 years. Her early career was dedicated to developing and executing on results-focused marketing campaigns for enterprise clients in an agency setting. She has managed Key accounts including Google, Dell, and AT&T. In her current role at 97th Floor, she leads our fulfillment teams, focusing on nurturing a thriving culture and enhancing client experiences. Her marketing knowledge and expertise span over both B2B and B2C industries. She manages a department of over 40 individuals, and is passionate about fostering career growth and empowering her team to reach their full potential.
Timestamps:
01:10 – Zero-click defined
05:15 – Measuring success via brand mentions
09:50 – Specialization created the credit problem
13:00 – Correlation over perfect attribution
16:00 – Redefining SEO goals beyond traffic
22:00 – GEO built on audience, not keywords
28:00 – "Jobs to be done" framework
30 min
June 30How to Use Agentic AI Without Breaking Your Process w/ Blake Nielson, Jasmin Bennett & Rachel Bascom @ 97th Floor
Blake Nielson sits down with Head of Content Rachel Bascom and Enterprise Account Director Jasmin Bennett to break down how the team at 97th Floor has moved from AI chatbots to agentic AI workflows, and what that shift has meant for content quality, efficiency, and process design.
Key Takeaways:
Agents act. Chatbots talk. That gap is where most teams get stuck.
Break your process into small skills. Fewer tokens, less bloat, easier fixes.
Make AI plan before it builds. Let it run free and you get junk.
Build one skill, use it everywhere. Good persona work pays off across every channel.
Resources:
Connect with Blake Nielson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakejnielson
Connect with Jasmin Bennett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasmin-rock
Connect with Rachel Bascom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelbascom
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Blake Nielson: Blake is the Head of Accounts at 97th Floor, where he leads organic growth strategy and client performance for enterprise and high-growth brands. With deep expertise in SEO and AI Search. Blake specializes in helping teams adapt to the evolving search landscape and drive sustainable demand. Known for building holistic, full-funnel organic strategies, he helps clients turn search visibility into measurable, revenue-driving results.
About Jasmin Bennett: Jasmin has built her career around one idea: that the best marketing happens when strategy and collaboration go hand in hand. She works closely with clients across every channel always thinking backward from the goal to craft campaigns that actually move the needle.
About Rachel Bascom: Rachel is the Head of Content Marketing at 97th Floor, boasting over a decade of expertise in the realm of digital marketing and a fervent dedication to crafting audience-centric content strategies. In her tenure, Rachel has been a trailblazer in the development of the content marketing department, playing an integral role in the transformative journey that positioned 97th Floor as a comprehensive, award-winning, holistic marketing agency.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction and what "agentic AI" means
02:56 Why modular skills beat monolithic prompts
09:34 How Jasmin rebuilt the content brief infrastructure from scratch
20:39 Using agentic tools for LLM analysis and brand sentiment
23:52 Prompt engineering strategies that actually work
29 min
June 23How to Win the Trust War While Everyone Else Is Automating It Away w/ David Meerman Scott, Author of The New Rules of Marketing and PR
David Meerman Scott coined newsjacking, wrote the book that redefined B2B marketing, and had a Hollywood film based on his work. Now he's back with a clear take on what AI actually changes and what it doesn't for marketers who want to stay relevant.
In this conversation, David ranks AI against the content revolution he helped spark in the 90s, explains why the middle layer of marketing is disappearing, and shares three underused tactics for getting your brand surfaced in LLMs today.
Key takeaways:
Proprietary data is your secret weapon: anonymized internal data is one of the best ways to earn AI citations and build authority
The middle layer is disappearing: AI is connecting strategy directly to execution, eliminating the managers in between
Newsjacking still works: real-time content on breaking news is exactly what AI chatbots surface when people search that topic
Own your real estate: social platforms control the algorithm and own your content — your site doesn't
Resources:
Check out David’s work: https://www.davidmeermanscott.com
Connect with David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmeermanscott
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About David Meerman Scott: David Meerman Scott spotted the online marketing revolution in its infancy and wrote multiple books about it including “The New Rules of Marketing and PR”, with more than 500,000 copies sold in 29 languages from Albanian to Vietnamese.
Now David says the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of superficial online communications. He shows how organizations win by developing fans, the subject of his Wall Street Journal bestseller “Fanocracy” and his new book “The Fandom Playbook” which will be published in late 2026.
He is an advisor to emerging companies, serves on the HubSpot advisory board, and delivers keynotes and masterclasses around the world. He loves to surf, backpack, and dance the Lindy Hop.
34 min
June 09How to Build a Personal Brand That Gets You Hired w/Brandon Smithwrick, Founder of Content to Commas
Most people know they should be building a personal brand, but they're stuck. Brandon Smithwrick, content strategist and founder of the newsletter Content to Commas, didn't study marketing, didn't have a roadmap, and didn't go viral overnight. What he did have was a fashion student's competitive instinct and a relentless obsession with figuring out what makes content actually work.
In this conversation, Brandon breaks down the real mechanics of building a personal brand, from his early days gaming LinkedIn's algorithm to land recruiter attention, to how he now runs AI-powered workflows while protecting the creative instincts that make his voice distinctly his own.
Key Takeaways:
The association game: When people think of your topic, do they think of you? How to engineer that before you ever go viral
Turn scrolling into research: How to build a systematic content library organized by hooks, copy, and inspiration
Speak to yourself five years ago: Why every question someone asks you is a content opportunity
Cognitive offloading danger: How outsourcing your writing to AI quietly erodes your voice and where it actually belongs
Building a brand while employed: How to stay transparent with leadership and have the visibility conversation before it becomes a problem
Resources:
Learn how to increase, scale, and grow your revenue through content: https://www.contenttocommas.co/
Connect with Brandon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonsmithwrick
Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/
Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.
About Brandon Smithwrick: Brandon is a trailblazer in content marketing and social media strategy. Renowned for his innovative approach and award-winning strategies, Brandon has transformed marketing campaigns for leading brands across Fashion, Tech, Music, and Beauty. As a motivational speaker, he offers exceptional insights into creating impactful content and driving brand success.
Brandon’s expertise is evident from his tenure as Head of Content at Kickstarter, where he led groundbreaking crowdfunding campaigns, to his role at Squarespace, where he orchestrated record-breaking Super Bowl social media strategies. His work has garnered accolades and features in prestigious publications like Hypebeast, AdAge, and Complex.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Why Brandon started building a personal brand at graduation
05:04 - Brandon's system for turning doom scrolling into content research
07:03 - How Brandon got hired without applying for jobs
09:13 - Brandon's advice for when you feel like you have nothing to say
16:41 - Where AI helps and where it hurts your personal brand, per Brandon
22:36 - Brandon: always start with your story
34 min

About The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor

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The Campaign is a marketing podcast about better knowing your audience, innovating beyond best practice and converting visitors into customers.

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The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor

The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor episodes

About The Campaign | A Marketing Podcast by 97th Floor