Last spring, I had Fabian Bern on the podcast to give an overview of Douyin, which, at the time, was still an emerging social media platform in China. A lot has changed since then and I wanted to bring Fabian back on the podcast to bring us up to speed on Douyin, share what has changed over the past year and where does he see the platform going in the future.   We discuss user demographics, new features on the platform, and how content is evolving, specifically the increase in mini-series and vlogs. I also ask him what industries he thinks can benefit the most from Douyin, and whether they should be focusing on using Douyin to raise brand awareness or drive sales.   Over the past year, Douyin has introduced the Starmap KOL marketing platform and encouraged many of its content creators to sign with MCNs, and we talk about how that works and the pros and cons of that system.   ***Upcoming Event **** I will be speaking at the upcoming Marketing 2 China London event in June 5th and 6th. Website: https://marketingtochinaconference.com/ . Hope to see you there! To learn more about influencer marketing in China, sign up for our new newsletter: The China Influencer Update!   Additional Notes: How Douyin has evolved: Userbase – now more than 500 million users 1st tier & 3rd tier cities are two main user groups 1st tier users interested in brands and celebrities 3rd tier city users: Social commerce on Douyin big in those cities Live streams popular among 3rd tier cities Strategic partnerships – CNY gala   New features since last Spring: Users can post photos too (as opposed to just video) Tmall & JD testing native stores Wallets, red packets Improved AR filters Duoshan messaging app integrated with Douyin In-video shopping Mini-programs, most popular so far are mini- games Stories feature (seems to still be in Beta)    Shift in Content: Short web series Micro vlogging popular, real and relatable Douyin seems to be shifting to promote more series-type content, which keeps users coming back, and is more sustainable. People get bored of little skit videos after a while.   Brands on Douyin: 150k official brand accounts China government does a great job Local companies generally do much better than foreign ones Foreign companies often use existing content and cut a piece out and put it on Douyin, which really does not work While there are a lot of brands on the platform, most of them aren’t making good enough content for it to organically spread on the platform   Industries most suitable for Douyin: Auto industry has done very well Electronics Web series use Douyin to spread awareness Cosmetics & fashion easiest to drive sales Gaming, F&B growing Education – Douyin now has “child accounts” where parents can filter out content   Thoughts on TikTok: Douyin one year ahead of TikTok Can guess what features will come soon to TikTok Content is a bit different with localization, create virality in country itself; Indonesia good example Thinks TikTok will generally follow Douyin’s path Young audience and people struggle to learn how to use it   KOL marketing on Douyin: MCNs and the Starmap platform Douyin KOLs getting more mature Many KOLs started their own MCNs and they are doing well because they understand the platform Platform pays more attention to users with 500K+ fans; smaller accounts less regulated Still a couple independent KOLs but don’t get much support from the platform A cut of the KOL fee will go to the MCN and Douyin price = 20-30 RMB/1000 fans   Vlogging: Videos can now be up to 60 seconds for all users Recent campaigns to promote vlogging; Fabian believes that since they specifically used the word vlog means they are putting resources behind it   Opportunity for music industry: More opportunities for music labels, need new songs, especially music + vlogs, movie soundtracks Releasing new music through Douyin   Douyin Vloggers he Recommends: Tuoluoyi – pilot who documents his trips Itsrae – travel vlogs   Guest: Fabian Bern Website: https://uplab.asia/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabianbern/   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.chinainfluencermarketing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat: H1212118514   Check out my book: Digital China: Working with Bloggers, Influencers and KOLs   ------- Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU: www.parklu.com and The Meet Group www.themeetgroup.com/blog    For additional information and show notes head over to www.chinainfluencermarketing.com   If you like this podcast and know someone who might find it interesting, please share!

This is part 2 of my interview with Ariel Chen, a top travel vlogger. For part 1, check out episode 44! In this episode Ariel continues to share some amazing advice and insights into the […]

This is part 2 of my interview with Ariel Chen, a top travel vlogger. For part 1, check out episode 44!   In this episode Ariel continues to share some amazing advice and insights into the influencer industry. We discuss the struggle to create amazing content vs. what actually performs well on the platform, the different types of content she creates for Xiaohongshu and Douyin, why she feels Weibo is still very relevant, her tips for tourism brands, and why you should choose a smaller KOL who creates high quality content over a large KOL who creates mediocre content, and why KOLs are replacing advertising agencies.   She also mentions during the episode that she recently gave a talk at a Weibo conference on the topic of Chinese social media marketing and KOLs, so if you understand Chinese, definitely check out the link to that in the show notes below!  To learn more about influencer marketing in China, sign up for our new newsletter: The China Influencer Update!   Content tips: Took her a year and a half playing around with content to find what works KOLs are competing against highly skilled professional content creators and the platform algorithms Artistic integrity - The struggle between your personal taste vs. what actually does well “The audience is trained to watch Douyin videos”   Xiaohongshu & Douyin: Tailor-make content for key platforms Xiaohongshu is about product placement, must share products or useful information Users have high purchasing power, She does fun travel English videos and that has been doing quite well on Douyin, also started putting them on XHS She mixes English tips with posts on hotels and travel fashion High end travel is best on XHS   Weibo is still relevant: Weibo search more used than Baidu Very official, if your brand doesn’t have a presence there Chinese consumers will think it’s strange Weibo is an open platform so a post there can be discovered long into the future Douyin is for short term hype and buzz – Weibo and Xiaohongshu for long term   Fliggy Live streaming Fliggy live streaming can be found both on the Fliggy app and the Taobao live travel tab Very targeted audience, looking to buy, great for sales Japanese tourism board really good case study Brands can create their own account and stream themselves or can work with Fliggy live influencers It’s all about showcasing the travel experience live China economy may be slowing down in some segments, but experiential and lifestyle is growing, especially for travel   Choosing KOLs + KOLs vs Ad agencies How to choose KOLs – don’t solely look into numbers Get good content then pay to drive traffic as opposed to mediocre content and large distribution High quality KOLs better than 4A agencies Talk to KOL directly, especially for smaller brands If KOL doesn’t talk about optimizing distribution they are not professional enough Ariel has an MBA so thinks about and enjoys the business side of being a KOL   Guest: Ariel Chen Email: [email protected] Weibo: @人字拖游记 Xiaohongshu: @人字拖游记 Douyin: @TravelEnglish Recent speech Ariel gave on China influencer marketing Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.chinainfluencermarketing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat: H1212118514 Check out my book: Digital China: Working with Bloggers, Influencers and KOLs ------- Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU: www.parklu.com and The Meet Group www.themeetgroup.com/blog  For additional information and show notes head over to www.chinainfluencermarketing.com If you like this podcast and know someone who might find it interesting, please share!

Chinese vloggers understand the benefit of having a team: Started out with an assistant in China who helped with basic admin tasks and communicating with brands and platforms For content to perform well, every platform […]

In this episode we welcome back Ariel Chen, a top Chinese travel vlogger based in Montreal, Canada. I first had her on the podcast all the way back in episode 4, about a year and a half ago, and man have things changed for her since then! Back then she was still a micro-influencer with less than 200K followers on Weibo but was growing quite rapidly and getting a lot of attention, fast-forward to today and only a year and a half later she has over 1 million Weibo followers, as well as followings on Douyin, Xiaohongshu, and many other social media platforms. She is also a top live streaming influencer partnered with Alibaba’s travel platform Fliggy. A former police woman, turned MBA student, turned travel vlogger, Ariel’s story of how she stumbled into the influencer marketing world is quite unique. We don’t go into it too much in this podcast, so if you’re interested in hearing that, check out episode 4 which is linked below. This time we ended up talking for over an hour, so I decided to break our conversation down into two episodes. In this first one we discuss how her career has changed, her decision to hire a team and how that has impacted her business, How she grew her Weibo account so quickly in a time when many are struggling to grow, and some of her other content and growth hacking tips. We also talk about the vlogging trend in China and her suggestions for vlog content. In the next episode we discuss Xiaohongshu, Douyin, Live streaming on Taobao’s travel platform Fliggy, her advice for tourism brands, how to choose high quality KOLs, and much more, so be sure to tune in to part 2! To learn more about influencer marketing in China, sign up for our new newsletter: The China Influencer Update!   Guest: Ariel Chen Email: [email protected] Weibo: @人字拖游记 Xiaohongshu: @人字拖游记 Douyin: @TravelEnglish   Recent speech Ariel gave on China influencer marketing   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.chinainfluencermarketing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat: H1212118514   Check out my book: Digital China: Working with Bloggers, Influencers and KOLs   ------- Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU: www.parklu.com and The Meet Group www.themeetgroup.com/blog    For additional information and show notes head over to www.chinainfluencermarketing.com If you like this podcast and know someone who might find it interesting, please share!    ------- Additional Notes:  Notes: Chinese vloggers understand the benefit of having a team: Started out with an assistant in China who helped with basic admin tasks and communicating with brands and platforms For content to perform well, every platform needs different thumbnails, titles, descriptions; it takes a lot of time and effort to upload so she freed up a lot of time handing that over to her assistant Hired a full-time videographer and that has improved her output dramatically. The production quality has gone up a ton, to the level where it can compete with video production in the West (which she feels is still ahead of China) Originally videographer was Canadian, but he didn’t understand Chinese taste, harder for him to communicate with other people she worked with Also has many contractors and works with other producers, directors and editors Her main videographer found her and asked to be her videographer, she helps him grow and gives him opportunities to film the things he wants so that he stays satisfied as well. Not all about her.   More than an influencer: Now that she has a team she also works as a creative agency and produces videos for destinations, to be shared on their platforms, but usually she will share it on her platform as well Foreign brands hire her to manage their social presence   Growing her following + content tips: In China, influencers need support from the platform, once the platform recognizes you it is easier to grow Important to understand the rules of platform Capitalize on hot topics – i.e. Australia china travel year, if you create videos about Australia they are more likely to get promoted by the platform Sacrificed earnings in the beginning to focus on creating a personal brand instead of working with every brand that came her way Important to have consistency, really solidify your image Daily uploads of videos or vlogs was a turning point, you stay top of mind for audience and platform Video is key in China right now Mafengwo long articles not as popular anymore Don’t treat Weibo and Chinese platforms like Instagram. A pretty picture alone won’t get noticed. Some travel bloggers focus on detailed guides or smart travel tips. Her audience follows her – wants her experience, impression, see what she does, see her personal growth Difference between US and Chinese vlogging – YouTube vlogs often 8-10 minutes, and China needs to be shorter, within 1-3 minutes

In this episode we discuss the concept of xiachen. Xiachen literally means to sink or submerge, and is now a popular term meaning sinking or moving down into lower tier markets. Xiachen content, apps, influencers, and products appeal to everyday, ordinary Chinese people. People in these lower tier cities can’t relate to the sophisticated content and expensive products that we so often see influencers sharing on Weibo and WeChat. While for those in 1st and 2nd tier cities this content may be aspirational, for these consumers is it is just too far removed from their lives.    Now why do we care about these consumers? Well…   Mobile internet users in China’s 1st and 2nd tier cities are mature and they are bombarded with content and sales messages on a daily basis. The next big opportunity for app and e-commerce growth is consumers 3rd and 4th tier cities and rural areas.  This term Xiachen has been used quite frequently throughout 2018 and many top Chinese marketing publications predict ‘xiachen’ will continue to be a major trend in 2019.   In this episode Kejie and I discuss: What does Xiachen mean? And why is this becoming a trend? What is Xiachen content? How is it different than regular content? What are some examples of Xiachen influencers, products and apps? How are consumers in lower tier cities and the countryside different than consumers in 1st and 2nd tier cities? Does xiachen style content also appeal to consumers in 1st and 2nd tier cities? Why is livestreaming very popular among young consumers in rural areas of China? What are some difficulties brands face when trying to market to these xiachen consumers?   Links: Xiachen themed newsletter   Topics include: Why are Kuaishou influencers so good at driving sales? Some of the biggest users of live streaming in China are not teenagers, they’re farmers Farmers cultivate social media sales The epitome of ‘Xiachen’: Kuaishou influencer SanDaGe   The Domestic Beauty Brand Taking Over Xiaohongshu: Perfect Diary 完美日记 一二三线城市的用户消费习惯，已经细碎得没有规律 小镇姑娘们的梳妆台   To learn more about influencer marketing in China, sign up for our new newsletter: The China Influencer Update!   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.chinainfluencermarketing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat: H1212118514 Check out my book: Digital China: Working with Bloggers, Influencers and KOLs ------- Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU: www.parklu.com and The Meet Group www.themeetgroup.com/blog    For additional information and show notes head over to www.chinainfluencermarketing.com If you like this podcast and know someone who might find it interesting, please share!

In this episode I spoke with Hailey, one of the co-founders of the fashion and lifestyleWeChat Official Account Sugarandspice. If you’ve read my book, Digital China: Working with bloggers, Influencers, and KOLs, then you may be familiar with her name as we used the theSugarandSpice mini-program shop as a case study in the book.   Hailey and the account Sugarandspice are yet another one of those examples of KOLs who have claimed a niche in the market and set the bar really high when it comes to the content they produce and the brands they work with   As usual we cover a wide variety of topics including: What is unique about their content and why it appeals totheir audience Their criteria for working with brands What it’s like to run an official account in 2019 and how they continue to grow The pros and cons of running a mini-program e-commerce store Tips for brands who want to collaborate with influencers The changes they plan on making this year Check out my book:Digital China: Working with Bloggers, Influencers and KOLs To learn more about influencer marketing in China,sign up for our new newsletter: TheChina Influencer Update!   Detailed notes: About Sugar and Spice: Their Official account has approx. 250,000 followers Hailey and her co-founder were high school classmates and roommates Saw a hole in the market and decided to fill it Unlike many accounts which are led by one influencer and a team, SugarandSpicehas two co-founders, Hailey thinks this has been beneficial because they had each other to lean on, an accountability partner, especially since until recently they have been running this account while holding full-time jobs Content: Current publish about 1 post per week but now that they have both quit their full-time jobs and can invest more time, they will hopefully increase the number of posts Either way, they value quality over quantity In many of their articles they like to go deep and share the history and culture behind an item; there are many nouveau-riche in China who buy things because they can, not because they understand it, so their content helps educate consumers They still produce all the content themselves, they feel it is tough to outsource because readers are so familiar with their writing style Travel content increasingly popular Have a series called monthly haul where they review their favorite 6 items they bought that month, that is also very popular The content must have a takeaway Brand collaborations: They are notoriously selective when choosing which brands to work with Must get the product at least a month ahead of time so they can use it Products must meet their standards-If they feel like they wouldn’t be willing to buy the product themselves then they won’t share it Their followers are very savvy; they understand the industry and know that influences will work with brands, but since they are so stringent about who they will work with their followers don’t mind as much Now that they are full-time, they want to go deeper with their brand partnership and try to collaborate in new ways First time working with a brand will often do a smaller collaboration and if it goes well they will expand the scope  Growing a WeChat account: Fewer people are willing to share articles, that’s why the new Wow (看一看)feature is very important, helps with discovery and reach Definitely seems to be a bottleneck these days But she believes meaningful, quality content will still always do well They use Weibo, Douban, Wangyi and other platforms to help them drive people to their WeChat account E-commerce mini-programs: Featured SugarandSpice in my book as they were one of the earlier accounts to work with LOOK to launch an e-commerce mini-program With LOOK they can essentially create a mini-program store and then curate items from retailers, essentially create their own storefront, and they get a commission for selling those items, but they don’t have to deal with logistics The mini-program is doing very well, they are one of the top 15 partners with Farfetch But Hailey says they barely promote the store, maybe once every couple months or so, because they don’t want followers to feel forced Treat it like affiliate links, just letting their followers know, hey, if you want to buy something, get it through our store and you’ll know it’s exactly the item we recommended Mini-programs stores much faster than H5 stores, WeChat really pushing them Hailey thinks it’s necessary for luxury brands to have one, gives the example of Burberry's monthly exclusive WeChat capsule collections Tips for brands: Don’t treat KOLs like traditional media, we will not just repost your press releases Estee Lauder holds its own KOL conferences where they have discussions with KOLs to learn how they can better help the brand grow socially Developing relationships is important, will make you stand out from other brands    Guest: Hailey WeChat Official Account:sugar_spice Email: [email protected]   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website:www.laurenhallanan.com LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat:H1212118514   Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU:www.parklu.com and The Meet Groupwww.themeetgroup.com/blog  For additional information and show notes head over to www.chinainfluencermarketing.com If you like this podcast and know someone who might find it interesting, please share!

This week I chat with Rui (@大睿睿) a top-tier fashion and beauty influencer on Xiaohongshu with nearly 2 million followers. Our conversation covers a wide variety of topics including how she got started on Xiaohongshu, what type of content she produces and why, what her fans think of sponsored content, the pros and cons of being a Chinese KOL based in NYC, and much, much more. Her background: Rui is originally from China, currently based in NYC She studied statistics at Boston University Now studying art management at FIT She had been active on Xiaohongshu for a while, but about two years ago her account really took off She now has almost 2 million followers   Her content: She mainly posts three types of content: fashion, beauty, and study/life abroad related Fashion is her favorite and what she is most passionate about Beauty is very popular with young, female consumers and there are more opportunities to collaborate with a top luxury brand’s beauty dept. than their fashion dept.; allows you to get a foot in the door Study/life abroad – a large portion of her audience studies/lives abroad so this is content they can relate to   Why she loves Xiaohongshu and why brands should too: She loves shopping and this platform is all about shopping Weibo is too news focused and back when she started the content types were limited Users go on Xiaohongshu with a shopping mindset Much easier to find your targeted audience here   What her fans think of sponsored content: She feels that fans are supportive of sponsored content as long as it is done right. They understand that KOLs need to partner with brands in order to have an income, and your audience wants you to become better and they want to go along on your journey, so if you get the opportunity to work with a top brand they are excited for you She also has a personal Weibo account that she doesn’t publicize, but some loyal fans will find and follow, and she uses this as a place to let off steam, show the whole process of collaborating with brands, share behind the scenes, all the work and struggle that goes into these collaborations You’re a KOL, not a celebrity, so people like to see that you’re a real person with real struggles   The pros and cons of being a Chinese KOL based in NYC: Pros: Chinese people are generally curious about life abroad so her posts will attract more attention Cons: She feels like people work harder and grow more quickly in China; There are many events in Shanghai that she is unable to attend   Trends and other interesting takeaways: Brands have begun moving beyond regular collaborations to create campaigns specifically designed around an influencer’s content and style She has tried vlogs but isn’t doing them regularly; they are very time consuming to produce and go against the short video trend so she still hasn’t made her mind up about them 燃烧的陀螺仪 is a Douyin content creator who has become popular very recently for his very fast vlogs As a content creator, Douyin and Xiaohongshu can be difficult because they both open up to an explore page and the algorithm shows users content it thinks they will like, regardless of whether they follow the person or not, so even though you have a huge following, they have to seek you out, won’t always see your posts, no matter how big you get you still need to think about how to get your posts featured       Guest: Rui Email: [email protected] Xiaohongshu Account: @大睿睿   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.laurenhallanan.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat: H1212118514     Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU: www.parklu.com and The Meet Group www.themeetgroup.com/blog    For additional information and show notes head over to www.chinainfluencermarketing.com     If you like this podcast and know someone who might find it interesting, please share!

Many brands find it difficult to select the right KOLs to work with. My conversation with this week’s guest Anny Lou may help.   Anny is a prominent fashion influencer with over 1.6 million followers on Weibo. While my interview was focused on learning about her career, her thoughts on Weibo, and her experiences working with brands, her responses revealed a great deal about the key characteristics of an influencer who is truly worth working with.   Some of the key traits she reveals are: A true passion for their subject matter A desire to share products and experiences that they think will benefit other people, regardless of whether they are getting paid or not Long-term commitment Dedicated to building a reciprocal relationship with their audience Professional and responsible attitude towards working with brands   There are a ton of other great takeaways from the episode, but this is what really stood out to me, that she is a prime example of the type of influencer brands should seek to work with.   What we cover: How Anny Lou became a fashion influencer Anny’s fashion knowledge How Anny’s modelling career took off When Anny started with Weibo Being an influencer with a full-time job and how Anny does it all   How does Anny Lou curate her content Why Anny focuses the most on Weibo How her team adds to her output The secret to growing such a large social media following How to establish a close relationship with a massive social media audience Frequency - How often do you need to post to generate a following and engagement Post styles that work with Anny’s followers How followers’ opinions should play a role in your content   What forms of online tools are part of her work Videos and vlogs are growing in China How Weibo has changed a lot as a platform and what you need to know What is the deal with Weibo and sponsored posts Which other online platforms does Anny engage with   How does Anny Lou work with brands Her perspective on brand partnerships She tries out new brands to ensure quality Posting about free products Common problems that occur when working with brands Brands that are doing great marketing How does brand reputation play a role with Chinese consumers     To learn more about influencer marketing in China, sign up for our new newsletter: The China Influencer Update!     Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU and The Meet Group:  www.parklu.com  www.themeetgroup.com/blog      For additional information head over to -  www.chinainfluencermarketing.com   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.laurenhallanan.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat ID: h1212118514   Guest: Anny Lou Weibo and Instagram: @安妮时髦精 WeChat: Anny_Lou

Summary: In this episode, we dissect two articles featured in the China Influencer Update Newsletter. One is about the Fan Bingbing scandal, and the other is about how influencers calculate their fees. Keije Yi, my assistant, Chinese journalist student, and former intern for famous fashion blogger, Becky Li, joins me on the show today. Keije offers a Chinese perspective of the Fan Bingbing scandal and later shares vital insights about which type of content influences her and her peers the most. To learn more about influencer marketing in China, sign up for our new newsletter: The China Influencer Update!   Show Notes: Fan BingBing’s tax evasion scandal (道歉100天后，范冰冰正式复出：究竟是谁让她东山再起？) Why Fan Bingbing’s scandal did not ruin her The brand niche that saw Fan Bingbing’s scandal as a threat to business The insights Fan Bingbing’s scandal revealed about Chinese consumers Why Fan Bingbing’s scandal recovery has been relatively quick compared to other influencers Which brands will continue partnering with Fan BingBing despite the scandal   How influencers calculate their fees (小红书的算法千人千面，你一个小博主的报价都整出算法了？) How influencer’s price their sponsored posts What brands should know before teaming up with an influencer How large brands develop sponsored content in China Why there is not a sponsored ad process that works every time Original photos vs Brand photos - which performs better The number one detail young Chinese consumers look for in content Why content format needs to vary by product   3 Key Points: Fan Bingbing’s scandal says more about the Chinese people than it does about her. In China, idols are commonly pardoned by their fans. Chinese consumers want the content they are consuming to be authentic and can be very skeptical about what brands produce.   Quotes: “Some brands will keep collaborating with her [Fan BingBing] because, despite the scandal, she has real selling power.” –Keije. “There are several factors that affect an influencer’s price. They will also factor in things like your brand's reputation.” –Lauren. “It also depends on what kind of products and what platforms you are choosing. So, for example, if you recommend an outfit, it is best that you just publish photos on Weibo. For some makeup or skincare product, I would prefer to see them on videos.” –Keije. Thanks to our sponsors PARKLU and The Meet Group: www.parklu.com www.themeetgroup.com/blog    For additional information head over to - www.chinainfluencermarketing.com   Host: Lauren Hallanan Website: www.laurenhallanan.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-hallanan/ WeChat ID: h1212118514 Articles Discussed: The most recent edition of The China Influencer Update newsletter   Article about Fan Bingbing’s Comeback: 道歉100天后，范冰冰正式复出：究竟是谁让她东山再起？   Parklu’s report analyzing the effects of the scandal   How Influencers Calculate Their Fees: 小红书的算法千人千面，你一个小博主的报价都整出算法了