In this conversation we talk about how centering prayer helped save her, how spiritual depth is usually a form of being undone, and how the future of our faith can become more experiential.

In this conversation we talk about his new book, “The Thing Beneath the Thing,” his journey of being a part of some of the most influential churches in the U.S. and how we can uncover the pain hidden in the depths of our life.

In this conversation we talk about creating a plan for our own flourishing, the real meaning of being born again, and the outcome of creating systems where leaders can’t be fully human.

In this conversation we talk about Sarah’s journey to becoming a progressive pastor in Orange County, the creativity that emerges when you stop fighting the old, and how transformation only happens in real relationships.

In this conversation we talk about his new book, “If God Still Breathes, Why Can’t I?” the difference between being a chaplain for the empire and a prophet for the revolution, and how white supremacist authoritarianism take up residency in our minds and bodies.

This episode is about Peak experiences, Christian Conferences, Burning Man, and Why None of Them Matter Without Contemplation.

In this conversation we talk about his new book, “If God is Love, Don’t be a Jerk,” deconstructing on the way to adult spirituality, and fighting for a Christianity that resembles Jesus.

This episode is about why taking risks always requires letting go of control.

In this episode I talk about how the best stories always involve risk, how a decision not to risk is a decision not to love again, and why failure is a friend of freedom.

In this conversation we talk about stepping away from their role in the church and how it has affected their relationship (for the better), their deep belief that life can always become more expansive, and what the past year has reveled about the church.