Jonathan Parnell is the lead pastor of Cities Church in Minneapolis–St. Paul. In this episode Clint Clifton talks with Jonathan about his church planting journey. You can find more info about Jonathan at his site here: http://www.jonathanparnell.com. Their church web site can be found here: http://www.citieschurch.com.

This week Pastor Clint Clifton sits down with Dhati Lewis for a candid conversation about church planting and the Southern Baptist. Dhati recently took the lead role with the North American Mission Board as the Executive Vice President of the Send Network.

Dhati is also the Lead Pastor of Blueprint Church in Atlanta, GA. View his full bio here: https://www.blueprintchurch.org/dhati-lewis

Books by Dhati Lewis:

Among Wolves: Disciple-Making in the City

Advocates: The Narrow Path to Racial Reconciliation

This is part 2 in Pastor David Platt’s teaching on the church planter and preaching. In this episode he zeros in on making sermon application.

Pastor David Platt is the Preaching and Teaching Pastor at McLean Bible Church. You can read his full bio here.

Pastor David Platt is the Preaching Pastor at McLean Bible Church. He has written a number of books including the best selling book: Radical.

In this episode Pastor David Platt explains the theological underpinnings of preaching.

Josh: [0:20] Hey, welcome to the Church Planting Podcast. We appreciate you tuning in. In this episode, we're going to hear from Pastor David Platt, as he trains future church planters on the art of preaching. This is a two part series. And it was originally a teaching that he gave to New City Network Planters in Washington, DC.

David: [0:42] So you got two things coming at you. One. 

Josh: [0:45] And can I get a copy of both those two? Thank you very much.

David: [0:50]   So, one that you've got is like my best attempt to summarize in three pages, the way I understand preaching, so basically, theologically, so think biblical, theological, even mythological, foundations and preaching is the first, the one that says the preachers passion and purpose, that's where we'll start. And then the second is just I thought, instead of just saying merely theological and more theoretical, it'd be helpful to dive into some practical, so I'll just give a window into my sermon preparation process, teaching preparation process for what it's worth. And then so once I put that on the table, then anything that feels like it'd be helpful to dive into more in depth, and we'll dive into so. But I gotta start pulling out my journaling from this morning because I was praying for you all today. And this time, and I was so struck. So my Bible reading plan, the Old Testament, New Testament reading. So this morning, Old Testament reading was about King [inaudible 00:02:09] and Second Chronicles 14:11. And basically, he was, sir king [inaudible 00:02:18] he was doing a good job. He was seeking the Lord, he was leading the people to seek the Lord. They came to a point where they were coming to battle with a million Cush nights, and he just cried out, "God, we rely on you, we depend on you. We can't do anything without you. We need you." And God answered. But it was really interesting. So in Second Chronicles, actually 15:15 he was leading the people to seek God and the Bible says all Judah rejoiced over the earth, for they had sworn with all their heart and sought him with their whole desire. And God was found by them and the Lord gave them rest all around. I was just reminded, so this doesn't have anything to do with preaching, but I guess it does indirectly. But I was just I was looking at this picture say Chronicles 14:15 of [inaudible 00:03:09]. He's seeking the Lord. And it brought such good to the people of God. And they sought the Lord because their leader was seeking the Lord. And I was just reminded, like, and any kind of leadership role we have, planting a church, Pastor in a church, any kind of leadership role. I, one of my favorite quotes for me about the church rarely rises above or revolts against the religion of its leaders, what its leaders are, the church will be like that. I just, I was just reminded that just praying, pleading, "God help me to be a good leader for this people, help me to seek you with my whole heart in a way that these people then are encouraged to seek you with their whole heart." So it's, and we see it all throughout the old tests. When the leaders are seeking the Lord, then it's good for God's people. When the leaders are not seeking the Lord. It is horrible for God's people, and the God's people are a reflection of their leaders over and over and over again. And so just praying, I just encourage us like, there's nothing I we could talk preaching, philosophy and methodology all day long. But if like, our hearts are not seeking the Lord, then we're missing the point altogether. And that carries over in all facets of ministry, which was then my soul appointed conviction for me when my New Testament reading was in Revelation chapter four. And here's what happened. As I'm reading, and I'm journaling. Start reading, remember, Revelation, chapter four is this vision of the throne of God, and he's just got all this, this, these descriptors of the living creatures around it. And so I'm reading this. And as I'm reading your my thoughts went, my thoughts just immediately, they kept going to, well, I'm guessing this happens to you sometimes when you're reading through the Bible, and your mind just goes somewhere else. And you can actually be reading but you're not paying any attention to what's. That's actually what was happening revelation four, and but my mind was going to like, all kinds of dreams and things I really want to do for the glory of God. And so the things I've been wrestling through and praying through, which I think that's good, but I was so convicted, because I caught myself like "wait a minute, I gotta go back and read those verses again." Because I wasn't even thinking about those verses, and then it happened again. And then it happened again, and I was like, "Whoa, there's a problem here." Like, I am more fixed on what I want to do for the glory of God than I am on the glory of God. And like, I just got really convicted that I get much, I'm much more drawn to all the things I want to do for God and just seeing God like if there's any passage where you should just be enthralled with what you're reading, and I wasn't enthralled with it, I was enthralled with all these thoughts about what I could do for God like, so, "Ah, God, make my heart just enthralled with you just seeking you and your face just being with you. May that be so in our hearts." So that was my reading revelation four. So for whatever encouragement that might be, I just offer that to you. One other thoughts, that I was thinking about this morning as well. And then we'll dive into preaching, I had the opportunity this last Saturday, I had the opportunity to fly down to Athens, Georgia, where I went to college and speak at a retirement celebration for a campus minister down there, it's had a huge impact on my life. And he's served for decades in ministry. And man, I was just reminded, I got a long way to go. He's I don't know exactly how old he is. Probably in his seventies. And I was just praying, "Lord, please keep me steadfast to the end." You know, don't you pray that, like, God please preserve me man, I just, I feel like I've got so far to go. And I want to. And I know, I know, so many stories of people who don't make it to that retirement celebration, or whatever that celebration is at the end, and they've crossed the finish line well, and so I think, for the most part, we're fairly young in this room. I'm not a young, I'm forty now, so I'm, but compared to seventy like, And so, God, let's just pray in our lives, that God would preserve us, till the day we see his face. So anyway, that's just some encouragement from time with the lord.

David: [7:53]  Alright, so let me dive in preaching line. So here would be my definition of preaching. I think this applies not just to pastoral preaching, but any teaching of the Bible. But I was thinking about it specifically when it comes to church planters in this room. So my definition of preaching would be at the top of the page they're preaching is expository exhortation for purposeful application, every word there matters. So start with the first part, expository exaltation. And so actually start with expectation, like the central passion of God's word is to make God's glory known in all nations.  That's just a conviction in my own heart, that from cover to cover in Scripture, what God has shown us, is his zeal for his own glory, in all nations. I was preaching at a conference this fall on the songs, and it just hit me in a fresh way, by what God has given us in the songs. I just started picturing. I imagined myself going to my wife, Heather, and saying, "Babe, I wrote you 150 poems about how great I am. And they're beautiful. And they just talk about all my greatness, and I'm going to give them to you as a gift. And I think it'd be really good if you read them to me." If you read them to me, it will bring such joy to your heart to read these poems about how great I am. Like that is, that's what we have in the Psalms, is it not? God has inspired songs to himself, that are good for us, like this is the Bible, like the whole book is like a book that centers on him and how great he is. He's the center of it all. So and then he's made it clear. That's where I'll be in Revelation five tomorrow was in revelation four today. Like, God, worthy are you to receive all glory and honor and praise was praying for remote people group this morning in Egypt, the Rabi, I think, is what they were called, but 365,000 of them. No known believers right now. Just praying God you deserve their glory. And they're not glorifying you right now. And that's what this Bible, this book shows us. So the central passion of God's word is to make God's going on in all nations. So if the passion at the center of the Bible is to make God's glory known, then the passage passion of those who preach and teach the Bible has got to be the same, right? That's what I love. James Stewart, this quote, The aim of all genuine preaching is to quicken the conscience by the holiness of God, to feed the mind of the truth of God to purge the imagination, by the beauty of God, to open the heart to the love of God, and to devote the will to the purpose of God. The my takeaway from that, that description there, the aim of preaching is that God is the goal of preaching, like, the whole point of preaching, is to hold up God before people because that's the whole point of the Bible is to hold up God's so preaching must be God centered. There's a great quote from Charles Mizner is a scientific specialist in relative theory. And he was commenting on Albert Einstein's. Basically the lack of interest in the church. And it was really I wish I could remember the exact words but it was something to this effect. If you search it, you can probably find it. But Charles Missouri, he said, I think Albert Einstein had a very great, maybe greater than anybody else, appreciation for all kinds of intricacies in the universe and the world and how they work. And he said, When Albert Einstein went to church, he said, My conclusion is think that Einstein thought the preachers must be blasphemy. Because he had seen much more mystery than who these preachers were talking about. And at the end of the quote, it's really strong, he says, My guess is that preachers he didn't counter just didn't seem like they were talking about the real thing. And I think..

David:  [9:51]  So when people walk away from hearing me teach the Bible, like I want them to have a sense that they've just that's been talking about the supernatural, majestic king of the universe. Like is that evident in the way we teach and preach God's Word? I just think there's, well, we got asked the question then, "Is our preaching man centered or God centered?" I think we've gotta ask that question. Cuz so here's the challenge. People today cry out for practical application when it comes to God's word they want to see the Bible is relevant for their lives, right. That's how people learn to read the Bible. Like all right, go through what does this have to do with me? How does this speak to me? How does this apply to me like it's almost we come to the Bible many times with man centerized. As a result, much of teaching and preaching the Bible can be totally the same. Here's, I want to show this to you, which I'll show what this means to you, which obviously, there's a place for application. We'll talk about that in a second. But there's a, that's why I put here there's a dangerous tendency in our day, to focus so much on contemporary application, that we begin to look at the Bible with man centered eyes, and our fascination with practical application caused us to look to overlook the most important quality of the Bible. It's divine feature, like the Bible is a book more about God, than it is about us. And so we don't need to comment. Our first question is, "What does this have to do with me? How does." Like what does this tell us about God? Because we'll only see ourselves rightly right? When we see God rightly. Like every all of our struggles come with a wrong perspective of God. This is Genesis three from the very beginning. I was preaching on this just a couple weeks ago. But yeah, the first temptation you look at it, in Genesis, chapter three, verse two, is when the temptor said, "Did God really say?" and he used a different name, the tempter used a different name for God that was used all throughout chapter two, the Lord God, the Lord God, the Lord God, talking about the goodness and the greatness of God, He loves you. And he's all powerful, then Satan. And the temptation says, "Did God really say?" You look at it, there's a shift in language for the title of God, and basically saying the same. Well, yeah, the all powerful and would say, don't eat from this tree, but he doesn't love you, just minimizes the love the care of God. And that's where temptation came, sin came into the world because of a distorted view of God. So if we're going to see ourselves rightly, see our lives, rightly, it's going to start with a right view of God, if we're not careful, I think in teaching and preaching the Bible, we can actually feed a man centered Christianity that bypasses man's greatest need, a vision of God, and we need they need to see God in the way we teach and preach His Word. So this is what's going to drive us, the glory of God, among the nations, there's a whole other side, we can go down there, I'll just say that real quick, but we could camp out a ton more here. If we had time, I could walk us through and show us from Genesis to Revelation, how it's not just the glory of God, but the glory of God and all the world among all the nations of the world. We know that's where all of history is headed. And so it makes no sense for well, preaching should be connected to the global purpose of God. It makes no sense for a preacher just to talk about missions, every once in a while, a couple times a year, like this is what actually drives the heart of teaching and preaching. We want to shepherd people for the glory of God among them nations, among all the peoples of the earth. So this is where I would make a massive case for Yeah, theological foundations for preaching exaltation among the nations. So we're always thinking through how do we Shepherd the people of God with a view toward him being glorified in all nations? We know that's the Great Commission, we know that's the end of history. So that should be the focus in preaching. So just constantly bringing it back to God's global glory. So the Bible is a book about God. Well, it's a book about us. So how do we exalt Him most in our preaching? And just, well, I'll get to this. So how do we do that? How do you magnify God with our preaching? How do you make sure God's on display? Well, but magnify his voice, his voice, and the same way that a microphone, you know, magnifies what somebody's saying, who, what the pastor's trying to express, like, 'This is what we are. This is what the.' When we are teaching and preaching the Bible, we are saying, the voice of God, we want to move magnifying every way we can. So how do we magnify God's voice through the exposition of God's Word? So exposition, this comes back, this comes up to the expository exaltation, so expository. What does that mean? My basic understanding of exposition is that in teaching and preaching, the whole point is to expose God's voice and text. So I said jokingly before I remember when I was teaching expository preaching at New Orleans seminary, and I was being introduced at a college conference and this college student said, "This is David Platt. He is Assistant Professor of suppository preaching at New Orleans seminary." So just to be clear, that is not what we're talking about here. It says not suppository. This is an expository. So expost., like expose, which I would say, so this is how I understand that word and how it affects our understanding of preaching, that is more theological than it is methodological. So by that, I mean, I think there's different ways you can preach an expository, you can expose the voice of God, the most natural and I think probably most, the easiest way to do that is just walking verse by verse through chapter through a book of Scripture, because as soon as you so that's one way. But it's, I would say only one way, I guess, it's possible to preach a sermon on a topic. And it's still be exposing the voice of God. The big challenge when you're preaching on a topic is that there's so much more temptation to take this verse in that verse out of context and make it Say what you want it to say. And it's a lot harder to do that, although it's possible to do that, walking through verse by verse, what's got to be dropped? So I would say it's possible to preach topical sermon, you can preach a theological sermon like a doctrinal sermon you could preach on Yeah, the doctrine, the divinity of Christ and pulling from different places, you just got to make sure you are exposing the voice of God, that temptation in all three is to expose our voice instead of God's voice, it's to say what we want to say instead of saying what God has said. So that's something we have to guard against all the time, in any type of sermon so kind of keep going there. God is glorified in His Word, his word Supreme. I love these verses in Psalm 56. And someone 19 scripture often makes little distinction between God and His Word. Look at Psalm 138. Oh, I don't even have that. Yeah, I do it. Psalm 38 verse 2, says to God, says you have exalted above all things, your name and your word. So above everything, God is exalted his own name and his word, when you look, all throughout Solomon 19, 'I lift up my hands to your commands, which I love.' Like I praise your law. Psalm 56, verse 4 and 10, both says, it say the same thing. When I'm afraid I will put my trust in you. For what's the exact language, I want to make sure I get it right. It's a great song. And God whose word I praise the Lord, whose word I praise, in God I trust, I shall not be afraid. Like I praise your word. I praise your word God, in His Word makes little distinction even between himself and his word, I praise your word. So God's word is supreme, and God's word is sufficient. It's like, "Why would we do anything else but expose this word?" What do I have to bring to the table that's better than this, and nothing to bring to the table. It's better than that. And I, it is the epitome of pride. To think that I do, to preach something else besides this book, and to expose my voice instead of his voice. No way, like, This word is sufficient. So that's why I put inspiration demands exposition. If we really believe this is the Spirit inspired Word of God. Then we won't do anything else. But it's faithfully we can communicate what's in here, because we believe this. One of my kids is working on this memorization this morning, Second Timothy three, that all scripture God inspired useful for teaching, correcting, rebuking, training the righteous the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work, like, I want that for every member of McLain bouncers, I wanted to be taught, corrected, rebuked, trained, and completely equipped for every good thing that God has for them. This word is inspired for that purpose. So I would be, it's utter foolishness to do anything, but just talk about this word, and talk about it, but say what's in it. So inspiration demands expedition. I mentioned this already, what's expedition, not a form or type of sermon or Bible study. So a journey by which the preacher discovers what God's voice is saying the text and exposes it. So get into the heart. So basically, preaching the point of the passage preaching the point of Yeah, what the Bible is saying. So in order to magnify what God is saying, in church, in our teaching, we must minimize what God is not saying. So that again, I'll just go back real quick. That is, I think the ever present temptation in all teaching and preaching is that we are tempted to take God's word and twist it into what we think sounds best. And it can happen so suddenly.

David: [22:29]  So the example that comes to my mind. Well, couple examples. Think about the Joseph narrative, think about Genesis 39. So Joseph and Potiphar's wife, you come to that text and you got man centered, kind of ideas, questions at the forefront of your mind. You're walking away saying, Okay, what do we learn from this text? How to be pure? How to resist temptation, how to do this or that and, and there's other practical application, like, "Hey, Bro, it would be good to get some business experience for you thrown in jail, be helpful" Or you be careful with the friends you make in jail, don't always trust, cut bears and bakers. Like, I mean, there's okay you got a variety of practical things you could technically pull it from, but you look at it and and you see twice at the beginning of that chapter and twice the end of that chapter. There's one phrase it's mentioned, you might know what it is? One phrase mentioned four times as the same phrase, when you get to Acts chapter seven. When Stephen before the San Hadrian is talking about the Joseph's story, talking about who Joseph is using the same phrase, so it's clear, this is the point the Lord was with Joseph, the Lord was with Joseph twice at the beginning twice at the end. That's what Stephen says, Remember Joseph, the Lord was with him. Like that's so wait a minute, Joseph's maybe not the hero of the story. Maybe God is actually the hero of the story. And the whole point and you read through the whole Joseph narrative, it's like, wow, this is a clear picture that when you're in your High God is with you, when you're at your low, God is with you. When you're facing temptation, God is with you, When you are Yeah, exalted in the kingdom, like God is with you, like all always focus on the presence of God with you. And now that'll preach practical application, like when you're facing this temptation, teenager, when you're facing this temptation, adult, in this way, or that way. Just know the power of God is with you, when you're at this low in your life, know that you are not alone. When you're years in a dungeon of suffering, like know that God is with you. So it will preach, like God's Word will preach when we when we exalt Him at the center law. So that's one example. Then have another example, Nehemiah. So with good intentions, the book of Nehemiah, I think was good intentions, has been totally twisted into a Christian Leadership manual today. Like you go to the Christian bookstore, you can get your tons of leadership books on lessons from the book of Nehemiah, which there are things we can obviously learn there, but like, what are you going to do when you get to Nehemiah, Nehemiah 13 when Nehemiah comes back, and He's, uh, yeah, he's back in the city. And he finds out that they've been inter marrying with foreign nations. Remember what happens? Verse 23, and 'Those days, I saw the Jews and married women of Ashdod, half their children spoke the language of Ashdod, they couldn't speak the language of, Jew don't know the language of these people. I confronted them, verse 25, says, and cursed them and beat some of them and pulled out their hair. And I made them take an oath in the name of God, saying they would not do this anymore. So how about that for leadership principle number 13. When people don't do what they're supposed to do, then you step one, confront them, step two, curse them, step three, beat some of them. And not all of them, but some of them just the ones that come to your mind. And then four, pull the hair out of their heads, and then causing, of course, I'm not gonna preach that, so well, okay, wait a second. Now, you're picking and choosing which leadership principles you like from Nehemiah that seemed like they fit and which ones you don't, and now you're exalting your voice over God's voice. And in ways that you didn't even realize you're doing, that's true, we've got to be careful. We've got to be, here is what I'm saying. what God is saying, in this passage, is that how, what God has inspired this passage to communicate. The more we say, what God is saying, the more God's name is exalted, the more we say what we think, the more we're exalted, that's a lower, that's a real lower. So people to see us in a certain way. We don't want to like, we don't, yeah, to think that we can take preaching and turn it into a very self centered thing, very easily without even realizing it. So. But here's the beauty, when we magnify the voice of God, God draws people to himself in the sermon becomes worshiping, and nobody says anymore, hopefully, okay, after a time of worship, then we're going to have preaching part, you know, like worship, preaching is worship. We want to teach and preach God's Word in such a way that people who love God, see God, know God, like in the preaching, in the teaching of the word, like they're given a vision of God. They're growing in their affection for him, not just music. I mean, think Nehemiah chapter eight, when I mean, all Ezra did when he stood on that platform, as he opened up the book, and all the people stood up and they're lifting their hands in the sky, they're bowing down their faces to the ground as the word is just being read, like the word is that good. It's so interesting. You think about that picture in Nehemiah, eight, people standing up, lifting their hands, bowing down, shouting out, what do we normally associate those kind of actions and worship with today? Music right, I'll take some strong guitar, people on the feeds, hands in the air, shouting out, which is good, You see Nehemiah in 12:27-47, like, that's powerful picture of musical worshipping. But what if we responded the word like? What if all it took was the proclamation of God's Word to cause people to rise and lift their hands and shout out? So God help us to preach toward that end? So we preach the text, because we desire the glory of God, I gotta move faster. And It's really quick. So expository exaltation. You might say, "Well, what about people's lives?" Yes, pract. purposeful application. So here's where when I'd say the authority of Christ compels us to preach the word I'm thinking, even specifically, Great Commission here, teaching them to obey everything Christ has commanded. We do that based on the authority of Jesus. So we have been commanded to make disciples of all nations that involves teaching them to obey everything Christ has commanded us. So as teachers and preachers, God's words, we stand on his authority, which is a great place to stand. Like, you know, communication theory says, 'When you stand in front of a group of people, your first aim should be to assert your credibility on this topic.' Well, preaching in a sense is the opposite, because we're actually saying, "I don't have anything to bring to the table, but this and the authority of Jesus, and so I'm standing on somebody else's credibility, totally." But I think that is so freeing, that's why but we trust in His authority, we rest in his authority. It's, I mean, that's the beauty of preaching, like, every Sunday, I don't have to make anything up, I just got to open up the book and read what's there, and it's going to do the work. It's just like, frees us up, it's almost not fair. You know it because the authority just resides in someone and something else. That's why the story that always goes in my mind was when I was in college, I was at this service, I'm sitting on the front row there. And this guy, everybody was excited. It was a large crowd and come because this guy, he was on campus preaching, and everybody said he's great. And so he gets there. And first thing he says, when he gets up and says, I forgot my Bible, which was signed, number one, things were not going to go very well that night. And so for the next 25 minutes, he's really funny guy, he tells all kinds of stories. And it's basically saying, I have been praying about what to share with you tonight. And I wanted to just hear from God. And he started telling stories about all these things he did to try to, he took a jog, he went to this coffee place, coffee shop and trying to get to work. And so he tells these funny stories, like keeping people entertained. And then 25 minutes later, he says, but in the end, I just couldn't come up with anything. So maybe, this was his conclusion. Maybe God doesn't have a word for us tonight. And so I'm sitting there in the front row, I read my Bible, I brought mine and I'm thinking, bro, you got sixty six books. So you don't have to go for a run, or go to a coffee shop, but just open up the book and read it. And you got to work for God, like you don't have to make something up, like this is so free. His authority, preacher stands in the authority price, accomplish the mission of Christ. So think about disciple makers. So this is relation between teaching the word and disciple making, and specifically preaching in the church. So the essence of disciple making is what? It's the recreation of men into the likeness of Christ. Like, that's where, well, this is the whole purpose of God and all the scriptures. Think about it. And this is fresh, even just from preaching Genesis three recently, but in the very beginning of Scripture, this is bookends of the Bible, right? God reveals His glory through the creation of man in his image, then John, chapter three, God's image in man is marred by the fall of man. And then the rest, doing all those blanks, sorry, the redemption of man fills the pages of the rest of the Bible. So from Genesis three to Revelation 21, it is a story of men, women being conformed into the image of Jesus, what they were created to be. I mean, it's all the way to Revelation chapter 22. There's no more curse, where we see his face, were restoring into his image. And so you see, that's why I put tree of life there, those bookends in Genesis three and Revelation, chapter 22, Psalm 17:15, I will awake in your likeness, like that's his desire, I want to be in your likeness, we shall be like Him, we shall see Him as He is, first, john, three, two, the whole purpose God's working all things in our lives together, for what purpose, that we be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that he might be the first one of my many brothers, Romans eight, transformed into His likeness, from glory to glory. [inaudible 00:32:34] as we behold him are being transformed into his own. It should be his image, from glory to glory, conformed to his glorious body Philippians 3:21, but on the new man, according to the image of him who created him, God has given us everything we need to know and be transformed into His likeness. Like that's what we're all in the process, right of happening in our lives, we want to become more like Jesus. I didn't put relations 4:19 on there. When Paul talks about, I labor until Christ is formed in you, like, that's what we're after, in disciple making, and in pastoral ministry in the church, like it's all focused on seeing people become more and more like Jesus. Like when I think about my kids, my whole goal, I'm praying on a shepherd and want to love them. So they become more like Jesus, when I think about this church, like that's my constant prayer, or and how, how can I Shepherd them to be more like Jesus, please make them more like Jesus. So that's, that's the purpose of Scripture. What Second Peter one says, God has given us everything we need to accomplish this purpose. So God's agenda in Scripture is to glorify himself, how does God glorify himself through the recreation of his image and his people. So what that means is, if we're going to preach and teach this Bible, then that should be the our agenda in teaching and preaching. God will be glorified when people look more like Jesus. So the purpose of preaching is to help people look more like Jesus. Like that is what the, is about, the books. So that's why I say the Bible's passion, glorify God, the Bible's purpose help people grow into the image of Jesus, so that God is glorified. So preachers, passion, glorify God, how? its purpose is to help people grow more into the image of Jesus, which means so now follow this. God's word was not given to answer every question people may ask, or provide specific direction for every circumstance people may face. So this is huge, because a skirt is going the application, which we're going to get to in a second, but think purposeful, from the very beginning. There's all kinds of questions people have that the Bible actually doesn't answer. Like, I can think of a variety of parenting situations that Heather and I are walking through right now that I don't have a specific verse for like, 'Every spares the rod, spoil the child like.' Okay, I got that. But that only goes so far. Like, I mean, "What do I do? And this or that, what do I do with my?" Yeah, and I can think of variety of decisions that we were talking about decision last night, we're going to make in parenting, that's like, okay, there's, I don't have a verse for that. I don't have a verse for that. I know there's good options we can be I mean, "I got verses that guide my thinking about that, but I don't." So there's and so parenting, finances, how to deal with grief when I talked with I mean, just this woman this last week in the lobbies are just pouring tears, like, Okay, I got, I've got certain verses truth that I could put like, practically how to wrestle through this grief, and this situation and how she's been hurt, like, Ah, So what happens when questions people have or circumstances people face are not specifically addressed in the Bible, you got a couple choices. One, you can take a text and twist it to say things that was not intended to say, which is, basically the way that plays out well, and I'm just going to add this, find some other helpful information and preach that instead of the text. Basically, here's the way it most often plays out practically, this means you go to the bookstore, you find the best Christian book on that topic, and you preach that and you throw in some verses. That may not necessarily be what those verses are intended to teach, but it sure helps people it seems like that.

David: [36:14]  So, at this point, we have a dilemma. Are we going to give human tips for the divine texts? Human tips, meaning, advice we give based on principles we observe. Which there's so much, there's, it's not that there's not good stuff out there. It's helpful I on dealing with stress, raising teenage children, dealing with grief, how to manage your money, the list could go on and on. Like, we basically take sociology, psychology, kind of baptized and a little Bible and here's some things, because that's what sociology and psychology are, they're like, 'Okay, how do you help people based on the way human patterns work?' So that's one option. The other option is the divine texts, truth that is revealed by God to bring people to Jesus and mold him into His likeness. So when I think about people walking through grief, I think about parenting, I'll just take my parenting struggles. What is my greatest need, as a parent? My greatest need more than an answer for how to do this or make this decision that we were wrestling with last night. My greatest need as a dad is to look like Jesus, and to be walking in step with the Holy Spirit of God. That is my greatest need. And the Bible is actually written to meet that need, in a way that is not written to give me the exact answer for this thing over here. So when we teach and preach the Bible, let's give people what they most need. They most need to look like Jesus the most and be walking in step with the Holy Spirit of God. So the more people look like Jesus, the more they will be in tune with the Spirit of God when they face situations in life that that's what we want to give them not 'Okay, you're not dependent on me to bring the newest of line.' We want them walking in step with the spirit who's going to be with them in every single searcher situation and circumstance they face, we can try to give people all the helpful tips we have, but let's admit it, we'll never be good enough. I'm not that good. I'm gonna say none of us in this room is that good? So we may be trying to answer all the questions people are asking. But we have things backward if through our preaching people are not being transformed into the image of Christ. When we focus on human tips. neglect, the divine text, we rob hearers of the truth that is necessary for realizing got purpose in their lives like being conformed to the image of Jesus and the process we robbed God the glory to His name by making disciples of ourselves.

David: [38:36]         So, Converse, I'll skip over. It's a great quote from Walter Kaiser. Well, I'll just read it. 'Many pastors can preach whole messages with little more than a tip of the hat to a clause or to take it from a biblical context. A few if any, recognize even more pastors have decided that using the Bible's a handicap for meet the needs of the different generations. Therefore, they've gone to drawing the sermons from the plethora of recovery and pop psychology books that fill our Christian bookstores, the market forces demand that we give them what they want hear, if we wish them to return and pay for the mega sanctuary that we have built.' To say what you're thinking, Walter. So anyway, I think I think it's unfortunately, fairly accurate. Converse, when we focus on the divine text instead of human tips, we fill our ears with the truth that's necessary for realizing God's purpose in our lives. We glorify God by making disciples of Jesus. And the purpose of preaching ends up being fulfilled, people look more like Jesus. Let me bring this to a head and with application. So purposeful expository exhortation for purposeful application, preaching in the context of disciple making necessarily involves application of God's Word. So the last thing I wanted to communicate is that we're not like helping people practically, like we're teaching people to obey everything Christ has commanded in their lives as disciple makers. So how do we think about application there? Here's what I would say, application should first and foremost be biblical, like it's driven by the text. Application doesn't drive our preaching. Bible drives our preaching and teaching and the application flows from that. Application should be contextual. Obviously, it looks different in different, if I'm speaking to a group of fourth graders, and speaking to a group of senior adults, there's applications probably gonna look a little different. So contextual, and even if I'm preaching in America, or I'm preaching in the Middle East. Application might look a bit different in different ways. So application should be contextual. So that's where it's going to change the way that the meaning of the text obviously doesn't change. Application should be spiritual. Here's what I mean by that. Can I use one of these quick. If you were to picture I picture when I think about application, I picture concentric circles. So I think I've got character in the center. So when, think when somebody becomes a follower of Jesus, His Spirit dwells in, like the Spirit of Jesus in them. And everything in their Christian life is going to flow from intimacy with the spirit of God. And growth in the courage of Christ. What the bible is intended to do. To cause Christ in us, to flourish and affect everything about us. So starting with, I would say our conscience. So when you picture conscience here, you picture the way that's spoken. You picture conscience, I'll tell you about, So I think, the way we think, the way we feel. So our thoughts and affections, So the more the character Christ grows in us, the more we think like Christ, the more we desire what Christ desires, then that affects our conduct, how we act. We always act out what we believe. It's the only thing about sin right, when we sin, it's actually because in our hearts we actually believe that our way was better than God's way. We actually desired something besides what, and this is Genesis 3, which he saw the fruit, it was pleasing to the eye, and then she ate, she didn't do it because she didn't want to, she did it because she wanted to. it was consciousness driving conduct. We want to act out what we believe and so, let me just pause here. I think, this is where when you think application, if we are not careful, we tend to always aim for this third circle. Not realizing that the third circle is only possible when we are aiming for the inner circle. so we can tell people all day long, how to live the Christian life, do this, do this, do this, be pure. like stop looking at this or that, like okay, we can say this all day long, but until, the character of Christ, the spirit of Christ has been formed in people, and they begin to think differently, and desire differently, then we are just putting bandage on broken limbs, and it would actually, I would say, be setting people up for failure in the Christian life. Because John verse 15:55 makes clear, they can't do this without him. 

Josh: [43:28] Okay, so we just listened to the first half of this teaching. He is really emphasizing the philosophical underpinnings of preaching, what were some of the things that you found most valuable?  

Clint: [43:38] Well, I think the thing that stood out about what he said was that I understood him a lot better, I understood his preaching a lot better by seeing where it comes from. An example of that would be I think, if you were to say like, in sort of a George Whitfield kind of way, if you were to say, "What's he known for, in his preaching." like, he's been known as a good preacher as a, you know, high profile preacher, but he also is known for allowing his emotion to sip into his preaching, like he always in a way that like, the similar to the way Whitfield was described, for me, he always feels like he's on the edge of maybe crying or often is, or breaking out in some exuberance or something like that. He's just so emotionally raw, you know, when he when he preaches, and interacting with him personally, he's not quite like that. He's not quite that intense, which you, of course, it would be tiring if he was actually that intense. 

Josh: [44:38] That is very true. 

Clint: [44:39] Yeah, That would just wear you out. But so he's not, you know, like that personal interactions. And so that I guess there's two ways to perceive that one is like, "Oh, he." I think before getting to know him, I thought like, maybe it's possible that there's something that's like maybe a little inauthentic about that. But anyway, that when he did this preaching seminar, I mean, you just heard it, he really emphasized that he feels like it's the preachers responsibility to not just convey true things in a powerful way, but to use his voice and his body and his emotions to exhibit the importance and weightiness of those things, in the way he talks. So it actually gave reason to his intensity. And it made me go "Oh!" like this is, it's a bit more like, volitional than most though, because usually emotion is like, just driven by our gut, right? But he decides to put his whole self into teaching all of the text. And I that was I mean, to hear him talk about that. And it was like, "Oh, that's why he's the way is." 

Josh: [45:57] That is really interesting. Yeah. That, and that's such an interesting point that, you know, having that pretext, helps you understand where he's coming from better. That's really, that's a great point. 

Clint: [45:58] Yeah. And it's funny, too. One of the things that's interesting about him across the board is, there's a lot of good preachers that they like, also make a side platform on teaching others to preach. Well, I have never heard him talk about preaching. It's not that he doesn't talk about preaching. He used to be a hermeneutics professor. So I mean, he talks about preaching, but you know, I mean, a lot of other good preachers have books out on preaching, like he just isn't that guy, like I, we almost had to, you know, drag it out of him, like, "Can you do a preaching seminar?" You know, like he's willing to do it, but it was also like, he's a little you know, coy about it. He's like, "What, what right do I have, you know, versus guys or whatever." So it was interesting to hear him like, have a solid square philosophy. And Matter of fact, he had two to three pages of notes that he handed out to us, you know, and so that was, it was interesting to just see where he comes from, like, what things in his mind are arranged that manifest themselves in the way he appreciates, you know,

Josh: [47:13] Really good stuff. Okay, good. Well, we'll look forward to listening to part two.

Josh: [47:17] Okay, so that was part one. Next week, we'll jump back into this teaching with Pastor David Platt as he unpacks the idea of application in the church planters sermon. Thanks again for tuning into the church planting podcast.

-The End-

In this episode we talk with Logan Douglas of Pilar Church. He is preparing to take his family to Iceland to plant a church. We discuss his preparation process and all that God did to lead him into this step of faith. 

You can also watch Logan share about their upcoming plant here: https://pillardumfries.com/news/sermons/logan-carla-douglas/

Josh: [0:23] Welcome to the Church Planting Podcast. My name is Josh Turansky, and I'll be your host for this episode. Today you're going to hear from Logan Douglas. Logan is in the final stages of moving his family to Iceland to plant a church. He has a US military background and he Harkins from the south. You'll hear that in his accent in just a minute. You'll be encouraged as you hear how God has led Logan to take these steps of faith to reach Iceland. Also stay posted for some follow up commentary after the interview is over. Okay, ready to talk about church planting?

Logan: [0:48] Oh, yeah, let's do it.

Josh: [0:57] Okay, so you're Logan Douglas.

Logan: [1:05] I am Logan Douglas.

Josh: [1:06] With two s's on the end?

Logan: [1:07] Not with two s's. Frederick is the only one that to my knowledge, who has the two s's. I haven't run into very many people with two s's on the end. And I'm sure they're out there. Yeah. that one s.

Josh: [1:18] So you are getting ready to go plant a church in Iceland. 

Logan: [1:22] That is correct. 

Josh: [1:23] So that's where the conversation is going to go. But before we get there, let's talk about just your yourself personally. 

Logan: [1:30] Okay. 

Josh: [1:30] You have a little bit of an accent.

Logan: [1:32] I do. 

Josh: [1:33] Tell us about that.

Logan: [1:34] Yeah. So I'm from Mississippi, from the deep south where we say y'all, we drink sweet tea. And it's not all dirt roads. Contrary to popular belief. Well, yeah, I grew up, was born and raised in Mississippi, and lived out of my thirty two years of existence. I've lived about twenty nine of them in the state of Mississippi, all really within the same County, Capaya County, Mississippi, little small place. 

Josh: [2:03] How did your years, zero to twelve, prepare you to be a church planter?

Logan: [2:10] Zero to twelve. Well, my grandfather was a Baptist pastor, Martin Luther Douglas. So if you name your child, Martin Luther, they might be a Protestant. And so he was a Baptist pastor, so grew up in a family that kind of was in the shadow of ministry, in a way, he died when I was four. And we didn't really grow up in church, my family, specifically, my siblings, because our father passed away about a year and three months later. And so, one of the things, I guess, I was familiar with church, but zero to twelve. One of the things that really I see as being something that has prepared me for church planting is adaptability, being able to, I guess, be knocked down, take two steps back, but keep going towards something. Yeah, I think early on, had some, just some difficulty, some challenging situations as a younger kid, and by God's grace, you know, made it through it. So really believe that when it comes to church planting, you know, not everything goes according to plan. We know that there's challenges, spiritual warfare that's going on, and so it's just keep pressing on towards go.

Josh: [3:36] That's good. So what else do people need to know about Logan? And thirty two years of life, Mississippi, 

Logan: [3:44] Mississippi.

Josh: [3:45] I've heard you're married.

Logan: [3:46] I am married. Yes. So I married. A 'dual threat' is what she likes to say. She is a missionary's kid and a preacher's kid. Pastor's kid. Yeah. So my wife Carla, grew up in Italy. Her parents are IMB missionaries in Italy. They've been on the mission field in Italy for thirty two years. And she's the youngest of five, her parents met at seminary. So that's pretty cool. So she's awesome. And we both are excited about going to Iceland. There's just a lot of random things about me and thirty two years, I didn't spend a lot of them as a Christian, I've only been a Christian for about the last five years. Was a cultural, you know, typical Mississippi Christian. From about age twelve to twenty seven. I thought I was saved because I did the ritual. I said a prayer, walked the aisle, got baptized, but my life bore no fruit of the gospel, no fruit of the Spirit, there was no love for God. Love for others, there was no evidence of any type of sanctification. But, you know, cultural down there, there's a lot of those people. You know, it's your evidences of your faith, or one time decisions and things like that. And so it was not until I actually met my wife, and we were not dating. I always like to say we didn't mission date. But just met her, was intrigued by her, she did have a live and vibrant faith that was very perplexing to someone like me, because I didn't understand why someone who I categorized as being not someone who I would think is a twenty seven year old Christian. She just, she lived it. I mean, she loved God. There was a there's a radiance about her faith. That was to such a degree, it was so interesting and intriguing that it started making me question my faith, the like, how I felt about God, how I was living and by God's grace came to saving faith through repentance and regeneration in September of 2013 and spent two glorious weeks as a normal Christian and then discern God was calling me to ministry and had a panic attack called my chaplain from Iraq, because he's the only Christian leader I knew of or ministers like, "Hey, I need someone to help me through what's going on." And he walked me through my testimony and what was going on and prayed with me. And over a couple of months. He recommend that I go to the seminary, he actually gave my pastoral recommendation into seminary and yeah.

Josh: [6:33] So you served in the military. 

Logan: [6:35] I did. Yeah, I was in the army for twelve years. Got out just to come move up here.

Josh: [6:41] Wow, up here being 

Logan: [6:42] DC. 

Josh: [6:43] DC area. That's where we're recording right now. Okay. So you are getting ready to move to Iceland for to help with church planting there? Are you planting your own church?

Logan: [6:56] Yes, that will be the that will be the short term goal, simply because it's not so much that I think that that's, you know, not a worthy investment of someone's life is to plant a church and to see a church and I'm all about seeing people stay in churches and devote their lives to shepherding churches. But the need in Iceland is there's more than one church that needs to be planted in Iceland. And so I really see that for our, you know, three to five year goal, we want to see a church planted, that's an English speaking church. I'm industry standard nationals in Reykjavik. And so that will be first and foremost in our mind. But the long term the reason my wife and I are saying, "We're not coming back from Iceland, unless, you know, God pulls us from the field." is because there needs to be more churches planted in Iceland. And so I, you know, Lord willing, will serve in some road, help catalyze that, along with the pastor who's already there going on, and seeing more churches planted all throughout the country.

Josh: [8:04] So how did you identify Iceland as a place to go plant a church?

Logan: [8:09] Well, that's one of those fun things where, you know, we can have like, a passion. And then God just blesses us with saying, "You know, that passion you have that desire you have, that I actually gave you as a see that would sprout into this." So I've been fascinated with Iceland, for a long time, I would say as early as I can remember was Mighty Ducks two, which is not the most spiritual thing. But it's just you know, there was this formidable dominating team that goes after the ducks. In the Junior Olympics, I was like, Who are these Icelanders, and the more I researched a country, it just sounded amazing. Growing up in the hot and humid south, as a person who just does not like heat. The idea of a cold place or the like, record highs in the 70's was attractive, but it was never more than just, you know, dream. You know, if I ever got a chance I would move to Iceland. And sometimes it bounced back to Scotland, but there's just this draw to this mythical type of place. And then in 2014, I was in seminary, my first seminary class was global missions and evangelism. And I had to do a church planting strategy and reach and engage people group. And the first place I looked up in the Joshua project was Iceland. I was like, "Hey, wonder what the spiritual climates like in Iceland." And I was a little bit discouraged because it's like Iceland's 80% Christian. As much as one can be discouraged with that kind of statistic. But I was like, "Oh, man, you know, they're super rich by the gospel." So I kind of just gave up on the idea. until two years later, I read a survey that was on the internet that said, like, 'Out of those polled in Reykjavik, none, zero percent of those between the age of eighteen and twenty five said they believe that God created the universe.' And so I, that like, didn't match up with what I knew about, you know, you're saying the country's 80% Christian, but none of the millennials are Cinzia saying that they believe that God created the universe. And so doing some more digging, I realized that it's actually much more spiritually desolate in Iceland. And there's not a lot of emphasis in church planting in Iceland. And so God just kind of burdened my heart with Iceland. And then through a chain of events, he just opened up doors for me to be connected to the country itself.

Josh: [10:29] Man, that's amazing. So, in the last year, you have served in a specific role here in DC, you moved up here? 

Logan: [10:42] Yes. 

Josh: [10:42] What is this last year looks like

Logan: [10:44] So in April, we moved. My wife and I moved to Northern Virginia to Dumfries to do that kind of two things. One, I'm a church planting resident, doing a residency at Pillar Church of Dumfries. And that was a connection that we made last year with me being up here for military training at Fort Lee, just because of the work that Pillar Church has done in Iceland. So in kind of fact finding and figuring those out, we made a connection, and they were church had to plant churches. And so that was a huge blessing. But primarily, one of the main things that we're doing is getting trained by New City Network, McLean Bible Church. And so my role, you know, Monday through Friday, is primarily serving as a church planting residents. So I help in various aspects of ministry, I mentored by pastors at Pillar Church, and really just involved in the life of that church. And then on Thursdays, I'm up here getting trained by some awesome people here at New City Network come, you know, 'How to do church planning, you know, what are some best practices?' Because it's just not as easy as showing up to a place and saying, "All right, I'm gonna do this thing." You need tools, you need a concept, you probably need a team. And these guys have been doing it been successful. So it's been really great.

Josh: [12:04] Wow, what's some of the most helpful resources that you've either read or listened to in the past year?

Logan: [12:11] I definitely think that Clint Clifton's book, 'Church Finding Thresholds' was just such a practical resource. That's just so good. You know, coming from a military background, having an abstract concept, we're going to do this thing. You know, that's, that's the good idea of failure. We call it in the military. You know, military officers are, "We're going to go do this thing." Like, that's great. But then an order needs to be broken down like an operation order. So what is actually the situation? What's the mission? How are we going to execute this and you draft all these dependencies and so, but there's a higher success rate when you plan something out? Well, plants book, Church Planting Threshold is really this great tool of being able to say "I conceptually know what a churchy is, you know, biblically know what a churchy is." but when it comes to going into a context, how do I do this? Like, what are some steps? What are some checklists? What are some things and that was just huge for me, because I mean, I'd studied theology in seminary, and I was very, I was very familiar with a lot of that stuff. But that was something that I early on was very appreciative of reading. Mike McCain, McCain Lee's book, 'Church Finding is for Wimps.' was a great book on church planting, church revitalization. And yeah, and then just to Send Network training, like coming up here on Thursdays has been really helpful, because the NAM, Send Network training is really, really good. But then the practical and experiential things that the instructors get today, because you got a room full of guys who've planted churches, and they're able to share with you things that they've used in their churches, so you get like their membership core. So they will tell you about their failures and give you some better advice than what they got. So it's really good,

Josh: [14:02] Man, that's good. I'm going to probe a little bit. 

Logan: [14:06] Okay. 

Josh: [14:07] What are you most afraid of?

Logan: [14:10] Like in church planning?

Josh [14:10] Yeah. 

Logan: [14:11] I was about to say, like spiders, but okay. most afraid of in church planting? Well, I mean, I'm gonna go plant and a foreign country that is very expensive to live in. And not only is it expensive, so there's like this financial aspect of knowing that most churches that start in Iceland don't become self sustaining until their tenth year, that's ten years. Here in the States, there's kind of an anticipation, three to five years. So you have to double or triple that. That's a lot of support raising, that's a lot of sustaining support, or that's getting a job, which I don't necessarily have a I don't have a fear of being bi vocational, but it's just an added unknown. of, you know, I was in the military for twelve years, how does that translate into a bi vocational job in Iceland? So I would say that, just that unknown about the finances, but still trusting in God's provision. And then I would also say that the language is a is a pretty big mountain, that I'm hoping my faith can move. It's just growing up in South man, I don't speak English well, so now I have to learn this. One of the most complicated languages in the world. Not necessarily because of the church by itself, we're going to be an English speaking congregation. But if ever we're planning outside of the Reykjavik area, and I, you know, I go to a place in the West fjords, I need to be able to speak their language if I want to reach the people with the gospel. So yeah, I would say those two things are things that I'm afraid of. 

Josh: [14:11] Yeah. That's excellent. So obviously, people can pray for you in in that regard. How else would you ask people to pray for you and for Iceland?

Logan: [16:04] Yeah, as far as me specifically it's just, if anything, just pray that I pray more, like I want a neighbor. Well, that's my like, the God has laid that on my heart. That when I get to Iceland, I just want to be missional in the way that I just want to love on the people of Iceland, in a way that I think culturally they're not used to. And that's a way we can, I can ask people to pray for Iceland. Being there multiple times over the past two years, it's been very apparent that I signed it culture is very stoic, you know, it's very reserved, it's not a lot of warmth. Initially, it takes time for people to get to know you and to embrace you. And Icelanders are, they're fierce people, they are very proud. And they should be, their country's history is a Little Rock in the, and the North Atlantic has fought off other great invasions and things. I mean, their Viking heritage that you can be proud of, you cannot be proud of some aspects, but they just don't let people know that they need help. There's kind of this mask that they wear. And that's just going to be hard. That's gonna be hard to have people embrace a foreigner who just wants to help, who just wants to love them practically, and he wants to be their friend. And then I think that there's a hardness of heart when it comes to the gospel in Christianity, that I pray that and ask people to pray their hearts would be receptive, because there is there's a thousand years worth of Christian history in Iceland, they were a Christian country, like the country itself declared itself Christian, and like 1000 AD. But over the past four, five hundred years, it's really become secularized. And the church is now a government, institution, government run, government funded, So they really don't have a concept for understanding the gospel and what the body and bride of Christ is. So just praying that people receive that.

Josh: [18:09] Yeah, that's good. Are there any passage and not that there has to be but is there any scripture passages that have really spoken to you in this season for you, or as you think about the soil there and the ministry in Iceland?

Logan: [18:25] Yeah, I just had a chance not too long ago to preach at a church. And this is just a kindness of God, their brother in Stafford asked if I would come and preach at his church because he wanted them to potentially be church partners with us. And so I was elated. I asked him what he wanted me to preach. And he said, "Well, we're walking through Mark, and we're in Mark four." And so I just preached on the soils, the parables that were in the soils, and so you would pick up on the rest of Mark four, and then Mark four I think it's twenty one through thirty four, you get this idea of Jesus, just saying that. "I don't, people don't get a lamp to hide it. They don't put it under their bed, they don't put it on our basket, like a lamp, it shows light. And so I'm giving you this light. And I expect that this light will shine and that you will use it to guide you and to guide others." But even more so than that parable, I love the parable about just the sower in the sea towards like the sower just wakes up. Sows the seed. That's his job. He's a sower, and he goes to bed, he rest. And while sleeping, the seed sprouts and it grows. And the sower doesn't know how. And there's this idea that connects to First Corinthians. I think it's three, where Paul is saying, you know, "I planted, Apollos watered, God gave the growth." And so it's really encouraging for me in this season and going to Iceland and thinking about great missionary, missionaries like Anna Jetson, William Carey, who didn't see converts for seven years, each. And the fact that I'm just going to go be faithful, God's called me to go scatter seed. He's going to get the growth. And so really, I would say Mark four. And first Corinthians three is just speaking to me in that as a minister of the gospel, as a missionary, I'm just called to be faithful. And it is God who does the work and so I can rest my head at night, knowing that.

Josh: [20:30] I love it. Okay, so wrapping up, how can people connect with you? Do you have a email that you send out or website.

Logan: [20:38] Yes, I would say the best way to connect is go to the Icelandproject.org. And there's a contact selection tab where you can get contacted by us as all come to me. Or you can email me, and I hope I do justice to how you say this, but it's [email protected]. So the church we plan to plant was going to be called Redeemer City Church of Reykjavik. So we already have that email address. And we have that website. So if you want to go to Redeemercityreykjavik.com, you can find out more specifically about our church plan. And then I'm on social media. So just Logan Douglas on Facebook and Instagram.

Josh: [21:24] Cool. We will link to all of that when we put up the show notes for this episode. Logan, thank you so much. 

Logan: [21:30 ] Thank you for having me, Josh. Appreciate it. 

Josh: [21:31] We appreciate you.

Josh: [21:53] Okay, we just got done listening to Logan. Now you've known Logan Clint, for a while, in fact, a lot of conversation he mentioned you in the conversation. He has done his last year under your leadership, you've interacted with on a weekly basis 

Clint: [22:09] Daily, yeah Matter of fact, we went and saw Spider Man last night together.

Josh: [22:14] Great discipleship. Yeah. So we did we talked kind of through his process. How does a guy get saved five years ago, and now he's ready to plant a church. 

Clint: [22:29] Only by the Spirit's work. I mean, he's an unusual guy. He's one of those guys. I heard, I kind of see I see a lot of myself in him. Actually. I when I was a new Christian, I heard someone say something like "When I live for myself, I live for myself with all my heart, and all my mind and soul and [inaudible 00:22:52] I was just giving all my energy to narcissism. And now that I live for Christ, I want to live that same way." My goal is to match my intensity for self love for Christ, like love. Logan like embodies that. He has a very, like, you can almost see, well you can't see physically, like he's tattooed from head to toe, if you see, that's podcast, you don't get that benefit. But he's got tattoos that just scream out how deprived his former life was, you know, and then you can see evidence of Christ's work in him on his tattoos. So it's just, I mean, I think he just embodies that kind of ethos. Like, I live for myself with my whole heart. I'm gonna live for Jesus with my heart. And he. So I think he's grown unusually fast. Because in some level, he's unusually smart, like he has. He's above average intelligence. But he also is just very quick to obey the Lord. I mean, so he's insatiable reader and kind of hungry for info. He had been successful in the military, but came into our context humbly, and said, "I know nothing, Teach me." you know, and he not just took the advice on that stuff, but implemented it has and has. So he's a unique kind of guy. I think he's going to be very fruitful. And in the context in Iceland, I know that context pretty well. We lived there for some time, and I have been working there for years. And I think he'll be successful there. 

Josh: [24:28] Yeah. It's definitely a Holy Spirit story. Because I went into this interview, not really knowing him thinking that "Oh, this is just somebody that Clint has influenced to go to Iceland." And when he shared his story, yeah, that this was something that was in his heart long before and he just so happened, that God divinely had him cross your path is just so beautiful. 

Clint: [24:50] In fact, the way he came to me specifically was going, the other church planter we have in Iceland had determined that he wanted Logan to come there. I had never even heard of Logan or heard his name. He'd been there several times and kind of helped with our church over there and stuff like that, but I just didn't know him. And then Gooner said, "I want this guy to come live here and work here. And he wants to do it." And I, immediately I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow, the slow the roll. This sounds very fishy to me." you know, And so Gooner, who I trust a lot, and his judgment is good, but he's hungry for someone to come serve with him. And he's lonely. His podcast, plug for another podcast. Is the Stranded Baptist. And it's a picture of like, this Viking on a rock, you know, in the middle of the ocean, which is what he is, because he's like, he's the only reformed pastor, only Baptist pastor only, you know, at all in that context. So he feels that it's not just tongue in cheek, he actually feels isolated, lonely, you know? And so the idea that someone would come and give their whole life to be there, that you know was, I know he would jump at that, but I also was like, this could be really bad if this person isn't rock solid, you know, so.

Josh: [26:09] Good. Yeah, it's a great interview, and we'll link will link up to the things you mentioned in the show in the show notes and will link up to the Gooner's podcast as well.

Josh: [26:26] Thanks for tuning into the church planting podcast. We'll be back next week with a new episode.

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