The Company Road Podcast

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In this episode of The Company Road Podcast, Chris Hudson speaks with Con Frantzeskos, a visionary marketing and technology leader who has generated billions in revenue for giants like Emirates, Coca-Cola, and ANZ. Con is the former founder of digital strategy consultancy Penso and is currently building AI-native ventures like SalesChef.ai and Ansett.Travel.

Buckle up friends, this is a hard-hitting conversation that contrasts the short-termism often seen in Australia with the ambitious, long-term vision of the Middle East and the US. 

Con shares why 70% of ASX 200 companies fail to outperform a lump of gold, and what leaders must do to stop managing decline and start designing the future.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• "Strategy Karaoke": Why most companies are just reading lyrics off a screen rather than building genuine strategy.
• The Gold Standard Test: Con’s analysis revealing that 70% of ASX 200 companies have underperformed against gold over the last 20 years.
• Legacy vs. Blank Canvas: A fascinating comparison between Delta Airlines (incumbent) and Riyadh Air (startup) on what they envy about each other.
• Ruthless Prioritisation: How Matt Comyn at CBA destroyed physical touchpoints during COVID to lead the mortgage market.
• The "Rattle" Test: A brilliant story from Emirates about service design—"If you shake an A380, anything that rattles is service."
• Why "The Lucky Country" is not a compliment, and how it breeds complacency in Australian business.
• The five determinants of companies that actually grow: R&D, long-term strategy, export bias, and governance.

Key Links

SalesChef.ai: www.saleschef.ai 

Ansett.Travel: www.ansett.travel 

Con Frantzeskos LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/confrantzeskos/ 

About our guest

Constantine (Con) Frantzeskos is one of the world’s most visionary marketing and technology leaders. He is currently building AI-native ventures such as SalesChef.ai and Ansett.Travel, while providing AI and digital strategy consulting to enterprises across Australia, Asia, and the Middle East. Previously, Con founded and exited the international digital strategy consultancy PENSO. 

He has held leadership positions at Edelman, DDB, and Ogilvy, designing campaigns and products that delivered billions in new revenue for brands like Emirates, Coca-Cola, ANZ, and Total Tools. Con is a regular columnist in the Australian Financial Review and a former Director of Victoria’s startup agency, LaunchVic.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneurship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode of The Company Road Podcast, Chris Hudson welcomes Jet Swain, design guru and founder of The Affection Economy, a transformative framework for how we lead, work, and measure success.

Jet argues that the next great economy isn't built on logic alone, but on affection, defined as people, purpose, and values. Drawing on an incredible 35-year career spanning advertising, architecture, systems design, and policy, Jet has seen systems that have lost their soul and their care.

She helps organisations move beyond quarterly targets to build cultures of courage, connection, and care. This conversation is a vital listen for intrapreneurs, examining why empathy is not enough and how to move to compassion (which she defines as action). We discuss everything from the need to dismantle 1950s childcare policies to the role of "meliorism", the idea that the world can be made better by human effort, to drive micro-movements of change within your business.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

Why the Affection Economy is "care as strategy" and not a soft skill.
The difference between empathy (knowing how someone feels) and compassion (taking action).
Why leaders must first "come home to your values" before trying to implement corporate values.
A powerful example of systemic change: redesigning maternity leave (designed by men, for men ) into flexible parenting or carers leave.
The concept of "meliorism" and why intrapreneurs are best positioned to enact those tiny, courageous acts that shape culture.
How to achieve both profit and purpose instead of being forced to choose one.

Key Links
Jet Swain's Website: jetswain.com

About our guest
Jet Swain is the Founder of The Affection Economy, a movement and methodology born from her 35-year career in advertising, architecture, systems design, and policy. As an executive leader, speaker, and author of the upcoming book The Affection Economy, Jet helps organisations build effective, ethical performance by centering their work around people, purpose, and values. She is driven by the conviction that human-hearted design, which leads with the heart, creates safety and healthier cultures.

About our host
Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneurship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode of The Company Road Podcast, Chris Hudson speaks with James Fitzjohn, founder and director of Brew Consulting. James is a certified "agency nomad," having spent over 20 years with advertising heavyweights like Ogilvy, AKQA, and DDB across London, Dubai, Melbourne, and Perth.

James shares the epiphany that led him to ditch the corporate life for the independent hustle. He realised that brilliant brands were happily spending fortunes on "shiny new websites" and "truckloads of performance marketing" without ever addressing the fundamental business strategy underneath.

This frank conversation delves into the raw, human reality of making that leap. The fear, the vulnerability, and the exhilarating freedom of building your own thing. It's a must-listen for anyone who's ever considered trading their office chair for a blank page and a new purpose.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The epiphany moment that showed James the massive disconnect between marketing tactics and core business strategy.
• The reality of the "agency nomad" life and the universal lessons learned from 20 years inside the world's biggest ad agencies.
• The fear and vulnerability of the first 6 to 12 months after leaving the corporate safety net.
• Why strategy must be a foundational element before any budget is spent on "shiny marketing."
• The shift in mindset required to go from being a big agency intrapreneur to a solo entrepreneur.
• James's generous offer to listeners who are considering their own career leap.

Key Links

• Brew Consulting: brewconsulting.com.au
• James Fitzjohn's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jfitzjohn/ 

About our guest

James Fitzjohn is the Founder and Director of Brew Consulting. With over 20 years of experience, James has held senior leadership roles at globally renowned advertising firms, including Ogilvy, AKQA, and DDB, spanning four continents. His consultancy was founded on the belief that too many businesses confuse brilliant marketing tactics with core business strategy. James helps clients stop faffing about with the superficial and focus on getting their foundational strategy right, delivering better, more honest marketing as a result.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneurship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode of The Company Road Podcast, Chris Hudson dives into the heart of organisational success with Dane Maddams, Director of Product at Culture Amp and Amplitude Product 50 leader.

Dane specialises in the "messy middle": the ambiguous, unspoken tensions, and trust gaps that quietly hold firms back. Drawing on a fascinatingly diverse background from Toyota to the world of gaming, Dane shares his unique perspective on making high performance more human, actionable, and scalable. The chat explores the hidden costs of ignoring workplace psychology, the true nature of organisational change (spoiler: it's not a mere slogan), and how we can leverage AI to augment human connection, not replace it.

This is a must-listen for product leaders, managers, and anyone keen to learn about the subtle shifts that differentiate a good company from a truly exceptional one.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The definition of the "messy middle" (trust gaps, unspoken tension) and why it's the single biggest blocker to company success.
• Why real organisational change is slow, deliberate work—not just a slogan or a major re-org.
• How to balance the power of AI in performance tools (like 1:1s and goals) with the essential need for human connection
• Lessons in efficiency, process, and human-centred design learned from Dane’s time at Toyota and in the VFX/Gaming industry.
• The critical importance of the "oxygen mask analogy" for leaders to prevent burnout and ensure sustained high performance.
• How to build performance tools that are truly human-centred and actionable.

Key Links

Dane Maddams' LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danemaddams/ 

Culture Amp: https://www.cultureamp.com/

About our guest

Dane Maddams is Director of Product at Culture Amp and one of Amplitude’s Product 50 leaders. He spends his time in the messy middle of product, culture, and psychology, building tools that power performance, 1-on-1s, goals, and development. Dane is passionate about making high performance more human, actionable, and scalable. Drawing on his background in structured environments like Toyota and fast-paced industries like Gaming/VFX, he is deeply curious about the intersection of empathy, AI, and sustainable high performance.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneurship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode of The Company Road Podcast, Chris Hudson and Amy Grilli, co-founder of the Five Hour Club, dive deep into why the traditional 9-to-5 workday is fundamentally broken for parents and families.

Amy shares the incredible personal story behind her viral LinkedIn post that reached 14 million people and proved this wasn't just a personal struggle, but a global crisis for working parents. The conversation explores the radical, effective solution: the Five Hour Workday. This model is championed not just as reduced hours, but as a system built on hyper-focused, high performance that eliminates time-wasting and prioritizes results.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The raw, personal story behind Amy's viral LinkedIn post that sparked a global movement.
• The definition of the Five Hour Workday and how it guarantees hyper-focused, high performance that benefits both the employee and the business.
• The shocking truth about the Motherhood Penalty and why it often proves to be worse than the Gender Pay Gap.
• How employers can redesign roles to attract high-caliber, talented parents who simply "don't have time to faff around."
• Practical advice for professionals who want to advocate for flexible work within their current role.
• The role of the Five Hour Club in driving diversity and closing the gender pay gap through radical flexibility.

Key Links

• Five Hour Club Job Board: www.fivehourclub.com
• Amy Grilli's LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/amygrilli
• Five Hour Club Community (Instagram): www.instagram.com/fivehourclub

About our guest

Amy Grilli is the co-founder of Five Hour Club, a global job board championing the concept of the Five Hour Workday to help parents maintain their careers within school hours. After stepping back from her own career to care for her two young boys, Amy experienced firsthand the challenges many parents face in balancing work and family. Determined to create change, she is now partnering with employers worldwide to redesign the working day in a way that truly works for parents.

Five Hour Club was born after Amy’s personal story went viral on LinkedIn, reaching 14 million impressions in just 14 days. Amy is also a speaker and advocate for flexible working and parental leave, passionate about increasing diversity, reducing the gender pay gap and shaping the future of work.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneurship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode of the Company Road podcast, Chris Hudson and Dr. Jackie King delve into the transformative concept of empathy, emphasizing the importance of self-empathy as a foundational step. 

Dr. King shares her personal journey, highlighting how her experiences shaped her understanding of otherness and the necessity of self-discovery in leadership. 

The conversation explores the application of design thinking to personal growth, the complexities of identity, and the role of empathy in enhancing workplace dynamics and social cohesion. 

We encourage listeners to embark on their own journeys of self-exploration to unlock their potential and foster better relationships.

In this episode you’ll hear about

• The importance of self-empathy as a foundation for empathy towards others.
• Dr. Jackie King's personal journey of self-discovery and overcoming feelings of otherness.
• The role of design thinking in personal growth and self-awareness.
• Challenges of maintaining authenticity and aligning personal values in professional settings.
• Embracing unique identities to enhance leadership and team dynamics.
• Strategies for intrapreneurs to leverage self-awareness for innovative leadership.
• The impact of empathy on social cohesion and organizational success.

Key links

Dr. Jackie King's Website  www.drjackieking.com.au

The Ultimate Other, Jackie’s book https://www.amazon.com.au/Ultimate-Other-Woman-Divorced-Jew/dp/1998756963 

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackiedking/ 

About our guest 

Jackie offers a rare blend of academic rigour, professional expertise and lived insight to empower individuals, teams and organisations. She uses her professional expertise and academic theory grounded in real‑world empathy practice, which she shares to support individuals and organisations to navigate change with empathy though the ultimate Leadership Framework.

Jackie believes that it is only once you have empathy for yourself, that you can be open to having empathy for others. She explores this through a design thinking process that she applied to her personal life, with a gender and cultural lens after her divorce, and has shared in her award winning book, The Ultimate Other. 

Jackie has a PhD in public policy and EMBA in organisational leadership and strategy. 

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneurship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

"There's two parts of your career. There's the part that you do and then there's the part that people see you do. And the second one is equally important to the first one." - 

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• Making your work visible beyond just doing it well
• Building influence through strategic relationships and social capital
• Leveraging introvert strengths in leadership and facilitation roles
• Testing if difficult colleagues are misaligned or genuinely toxic
• Handling workplace bullies with specific tactical approaches
• Recognizing when manager advocacy is absent and exit strategies are needed

Key links

• Anna Findlay LinkedIn 
• Book: "Surrounded by Idiots" 
• 10 types of workplace bullies | Anna Findlay 🔑 Career Coach

About our guest 

Anna Findlay is a Career and Soft Skills Coach who helps mid-career professionals who feel stuck, undervalued, or off-track to confidently reposition themselves and build the career they truly want. Whether it’s a new job, a pivot, a promotion, or simply a better way of working, she helps clients move forward with clarity and purpose. Anna also works with teams to strengthen communication and improve collaboration.

Her coaching takes a holistic, strengths-based approach grounded in self-reflection, emotional intelligence, and self-advocacy. Her goal is to help smart, capable people navigate uncertainty, build confidence, and achieve meaningful career outcomes.

Drawing on her background in human-centered design, facilitation, and meditation, Anna creates a practical yet empowering coaching experience that meets clients where they are and takes them to where they want to be.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneuship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

P.S. If you're enjoying these conversations and finding them helpful, please consider supporting the show. Your pledge helps us keep bringing you incredible guests and valuable career insights. Thank you for being part of our community! You can contribute for less than the price of a coffee here.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

"Actually 90% of the change you're trying to create comes through systemic changes to the environment rather than training." - Charlie Kneen

Charlie Kneen is the founder of Solvd Together, a learning and development transformation consultancy that reimagines how global brands approach their people strategy. Formerly the L&D lead at BP in the UK, Charlie brings together expertise in marketing, coaching, leadership, and human-centred design.

If you're tired of engagement surveys and hoping for the best, this episode offers tangible alternatives that focus on business performance rather than content delivery. 

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The broken model of corporate learning
• Human-centred design in L&D
• How to handle difficult conversations when research reveals uncomfortable truths about leadership and systems
• Moving from order-takers to strategic partners
• Using nudges and contextual cues to drive behaviour change without formal training
• Setting up proper research methodologies with control groups to prove ROI and business impact

Key links

• Solvd Together Website
• Charlie Kneen LinkedIn
• Solvd Together LinkedIn
• How People Learn: Designing Education and Training that Works to Improve Performance
• "The Empty Brain" article by Robert Epstein (former editor of Psychology Today) 
• Nick Shackleton-Jones 
• Bp Website

About our guest 

Charlie Kneen is the founder of Solvd Together, a Learning & Development and Transformation consultancy that partners with global brands to reimagine how organisations engage, retain, and upskill their people. 

Drawing on a background in marketing, coaching, and leadership roles across both in-house teams and start-ups, Charlie brings a unique perspective on the psychology of work. His passion lies in applying human-centred design to learning and change, helping businesses achieve real impact and commercial value while creating better experiences for their people.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneuship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

"Communicate to involve, not to tell, so that you can make the change stick." - Lana North

Lana North is a change communication specialist and founder of the Communication Exchange who has spent two decades managing complex transformation programmes across industries from banking to logistics. After working through major changes including the aftermath of the European financial crisis, she now helps leaders navigate organisational transformation with clarity and humanity. 

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The psychology of change resistance
• Two-way communication vs. one-way instruction
• Stakeholder engagement and timing
• Managing conflict and building consensus
• Practical communication strategies

Key links

• Lana North LinkedIn
• The Communication Exchange
• Podcast with Andreas Moellmann
• PROSCI

About our guest 

Lana North is a change communication specialist and founder of The Communication Exchange.

After two decades of leading communication efforts across complex change programs in Australia and Europe, Lana now helps professional leaders to drive sustainable change by mastering their communication and team engagement skills.

Lana works with those leaders- the ones who care deeply, but feel overwhelmed by the pace, unsure how to say the hard things, and uncertain about how to truly engage their teams when they’re still finding their own footing.Her focus is on making change doable, not daunting -with less jargon, more humanity, and a real plan for making change stick so that the benefits can be realised.

When she’s not helping professional leaders to drive sustainable change, Lana’s juggling life with three kids, a Labrador, and the occasional fence-jumping cow.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneuship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Send us Fan Mail

"I think there are three things that are really valued in organizations from consultants. The first is consultants come without a legacy bias. So the challenges, the roadblocks, the cultural norms within an organization, consultants are able to sidestep those. So are able to kind of come in and observe those with a bit of a neutral gaze." - Steph Foxworthy

Steph Foxworthy brings over 25 years of experience spanning customer experience, digital strategy, product innovation, sales, and marketing. He was recently managing director at Accenture Song in Melbourne and has driven results for major organisations including Coles and Telstra.

If you've ever wondered how consultants drive change or how to apply that mindset from within this episode is for you.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The differences between employee, agency, and consultant mindsets
• How consultants build trust and get repeat business through expertise
• The role of pattern recognition in consultant success
• Why consultants can ask "dumb questions" that employees cannot
• How AI is changing the consulting landscape and democratising expertise
• The importance of asking the right questions in an AI-powered world
• Three key things consultants bring: no legacy bias, pattern recognition, storytelling
• The relationship between consultants and organisational politics
• How to know when to be directive versus exploratory as an intrapreneur
• The therapeutic role consultants often play in organisations
• Why design education teaches valuable enquiry skills
• The changing pathways for learning consulting skills
• How AI agents might change business negotiations in the future

Key links

• Steph Foxworthy LinkedIn
• Accenture Song 
• Reactive

About our guest 

Steph is a customer experience, digital strategy and marketing professional with over 25 years' experience.

He’s an advocate for the power of technology to augment human creativity and to help drive growth and impact for customers, businesses and society.

After many years working in digital agencies and consulting, Steph is now Director of Managed Services at Our Community, a social enterprise dedicated to building stronger communities through software, education and services for the not-for-profit and grant-making sector.

Steph is also a non-executive director at Minus18 Foundation, a queer youth charity with a mission to improve the lives of LGBTQIA+ youth.

Steph is married with three high-school aged kids and lives bayside on Boonwurrung country in Naarm, Melbourne.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is an Intrapreneuship Coach, Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Company Road was founded by Chris Hudson, who saw over-niching and specialisation within corporates as a significant barrier to change.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

Support the show

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/