The Constructing Modern Knowledge Podcast

In this episode, educator, author, and pioneer in educational computing Gary Stager delivers a keynote address to a conference of educators in Lithuania, making the case that the future belongs to those who can think and create computationally. Gary unpacks why making — especially computational making — is the most powerful learning experience we can offer students, and why schools need to raise their expectations in the age of AI.

Max Headroom video of the talk:

The Philosophy Behind the Work Gary’s 44 years of work is grounded in Jean Piaget’s foundational idea that knowledge is a consequence of experience. He argues that most problems in education can be traced back to an absence of rich, real experience for students.

What Computational Making Really Means Drawing on the work of Seymour Papert and Steven Wolfram, Gary explains why computation isn’t just a tool — it’s a paradigm for understanding and building the world. Making without computation, he argues, is just arts and crafts.

Programming as the New Liberal Art From the Bill Gates origin story to a student who taught himself Python overnight, Gary makes a compelling case for why learning to program gives children genuine agency in a complex world.

AI in the Classroom — Done Right Gary pushes back hard against using AI for automating lesson plans or surveilling students, and instead champions AI as a thought partner, copy editor, and creative amplifier. He shares vivid examples from his own life and his grandchildren’s adventures at the Great Barrier Reef.

Real Projects from Real Teachers Highlights from Gary’s summer institute Constructing Modern Knowledge include a fortune-telling robot built from recycled materials, an animated Marie Antoinette wig with a built-in microcontroller, and a pair of shoes that called an Uber.

Raising Expectations Gary closes with a challenge to educators: stop doing a little Scratch and start doing a lot. Fluency, depth, and meaningful projects are what unlock the real power of computational tools.

“The best makerspace is between our ears.”

“Less us, more them is the key to great teaching.”

“Making without computation is arts and crafts.”

“Knowledge is a consequence of experience — and there’s no substitute for experience.”

“The question about your computer program isn’t whether it’s right or wrong, but is it fixable?”

Gary Stager is a teacher educator, author, and one of the world’s leading advocates for learning by making. He played a central role in the first schools where every student had a laptop, has worked with educators across the globe, and is the co-author of Invent to Learn. Learn more at professorgary.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share it with a fellow educator.

The post Episode 30 – The Future is Computational (Lithuanian Keynote) appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

April 25, 2025 – eSchool News:
We just can’t get away from it. AI continues to take the oxygen out of every edtech conversation. Even the Trump administration, while actively destroying federal involvement in public education, jumped on the bandwagon this week.

Who better to puncture this overused acronym than edtech legend Gary Stager. In this conversation, he offers a pragmatic perspective on AI in education, cutting through both fear and hype. Gary argues that educators should view AI as simply another useful technology rather than something to either fear or blindly embrace. He criticizes the rush to create AI policies and curricula by administrators with limited understanding of the technology, suggesting instead that schools adopt minimal, flexible policies while encouraging hands-on experimentation.

So what does AI think about Gary’s POV? In the spirit of the topic, here is what Claude took away from our talk:

Many thanks to Kevin Hogan for the interview!
Kevin is a forward-thinking media executive with more than 25 years of experience building brands and audiences online, in print, and face to face. He is an acclaimed writer, editor, and commentator covering the intersection of society and technology, especially education technology. You can reach Kevin at [email protected]

The post Episode 29 – Crosspost from eSchool News: AI in Education: Beyond the Hype Cycle appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

Dan Kearney chats with Dr. Gary Stager, teacher, professor, author, and consultant (among other things) and a true constructivist. Gary is the founder of the Constructing Modern Knowledge summer institute for educators and the co-author of Invent To Learn – Making, Tinkering, and Engineering in the Classroom.

Dan and Gary talk about Gary’s dear friend, the late Seymour Papert, and the meaning of a computer in a classroom, phones in schools, Gary’s experience teaching in a prison in Maine, and why reading from actual books is so vital.

As always I welcome comments and questions on BlueSky @dankearney and on Instagram @BigIdeaEd

Subscribe to Dan Kearney’s What’s the Big Idea Podcast

The post Episode 28 – Crosspost from Dan Kearney’s What’s the Big Idea Podcast appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

Here is a recently discovered recording of a provocative late career keynote address by Dr. Seymour Papert delivered at the (March) 2004 RIMA ICEM Conference in Quebec City, Canada. Papert spoke of “learning environmentalism” and shared the “Land of Suet” parable that many of us heard several times, but is barely documented until this recording. There is a Q&A after Papert’s remarks.

Did you know that the legendary Constructing Modern Knowledge institute for educators will be held in Melbourne, Australia this August? Please join educators from around the world at CMK Australia, August 12-15th, 2025. Learn more at constructingmodernknowledge.com.

The post Episode 27 – Seymour Papert Keynote at RIMA 2004 appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

This episode is a very special one. It features two of my sheroes, Dr. Edith Ackermann and Carla Rinaldi in conversation at the 2016 Constructing Modern Knowledge summer institute. I completely forgot about this event until I found the file sitting on a hard drive.

Edith Ackermann was a Swiss epistemologist, designer, professor, and visionary who always had just the right and most profound thing to say at any moment. In a more just world, Edith would be a household name. After all, she worked with three of the greatest learning theorists of the 20th century – Jean Piaget, Ernst von Glasersfeld, AND Seymour Papert. She also supervised close to 90 PhD dissertations at M.I.T.

We lost Edith in 2016 and our mutual friend, Carla Rinaldi, passed sadly just a few weeks ago, in April 2025. Carla Rinaldi was the leading light of the Reggio Emilia Approach. She was the direct link to Loris Malaguzzi, the father of the Reggio Emilia Approach who served as a teacher, pedagogista, President of Reggio Children, and Fondazione Reggio Children. Carla’s playful brilliance touched and inspired educators, parents, and policy makers across the globe. She was a warrior on behalf children, their rights, and the health of their communities. (Learn more about Carla in her own words and video here.)

The world will never again see the likes of giants like Edith Ackermann and Carla Rinaldi. Therefore, it is with great pride that I share this recorded discussion from Constructing Modern Knowledge 2016.

Speaking of Constructing Modern Knowledge… Did you know that the legendary Constructing Modern Knowledge institute for educators will be held in Melbourne, Australia this August? Please join educators from around the world at CMK Australia, August 12-15th, 2025. Learn more at constructingmodernknowledge.com.

The post Episode 26 – Carla Rinaldi, Edith Ackermann, and Gary Stager in Conversation appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

This episode is a cross-post from Will Richardson’s Future Serious podcast. Will is an old friend, educator, author, and speaker. We often arrive at big ideas while cracking each other up. I hope you’ll enjoy this short conversation about education, politics, and the state of the world.

Check out Will’s podcast at futureserious.substack.com and be sure to subscribe to the Constructing Modern Knowledge podcast at live.constructingmodernknowledge.com.

Speaking of Constructing Modern Knowledge… Did you know that the legendary Constructing Modern Knowledge institute for educators will be held in Melbourne, Australia this August? Please join educators from around the world at CMK Australia, August 12-15th, 2025. Learn more at constructingmodernknowledge.com.

The post Episode 25 – Will Richardson in Conversation with Gary Stager appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

Constructing Modern Knowledge Press President and Editor-in-Chief Sylvia Martinez introduces Dr. Ken Kahn, author of The Learner’s Apprentice: AI and the Amplification of Human Creativity.

In this episode, Dr. Kahn discusses his journey with AI, including his work in generative AI, ToonTalk programming, and his focus on enabling children to integrate AI into their projects. The conversation highlights the book’s focus on engaging students with chatbots to create interactive web apps, educational simulations, and storytelling exercises. Dr. Kahn shares specific examples, from simple web apps to complex, curriculum-related simulations and structured conversations.

The discussion underscores the potential for AI to enhance project-based learning, foster computational thinking, and support creative explorations in various educational contexts. Get the book here.

Contents

The post Episode 24 – Sylvia Martinez Speaks With Ken Kahn About His New AI Book appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

Gary Stager was recently a guest of Joseph Carver on his podcast, @The Meadow. We are grateful to The Meadows School and Mr. Carver for their generous permission to cross-post this lively conversation.

Listen to other episodes at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-meadow/id1585916879

The Meadow is where we gather to talk about all things innovation, creativity, and critical thinking.

Host Joseph Carver, the Chief Innovation Officer at The Meadows School in Las Vegas, NV invites guests from all walks of life to discuss their experiences as creators, innovators, change agents, and life-long learners.

The post Episode 23 – @The Meadow Crosspost Podcast with Gary Stager appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

Rethinking Tinkering
In our book, Invent To Learn, we sought to reclaim tinkering and correct the popular perception that it was synonymous with careless futzing about. Tinkering, we argued was inspired by the possibility of materials, allowing learners to develop important skills and develop powerful ideas while intimately engaged in sophisticated projects. The maker movement promised to herald an exciting renaissance of such bricolage, often in the name of STEM, since new tools, materials, and technology would allow learners of all ages to make things with both bits and atoms.

Fifteen years later, schools really seem to have embraced cutting up cardboard, but have sadly left the bits behind again. This session is a plea to refocus our attention on the secret sauce of making and fabrication, computation. Programming computers – making things with code or making things powered by code – transforms classroom arts and crafts (not that there’s anything wrong with that) into a powerful intellectual laboratory and vehicle for self-expression. This session will explore models of computationally-rich projects, developmentally appropriate activities, and effective prompt setting.

Presenter Bio
In addition to being a popular keynote speaker at some of the world’s most prestigious education conferences, Dr. Stager is co-author of Invent To Learn – Making, Tinkering, and Engineering in the Classroom, called the “bible of the maker movement in schools,” by Larry Magid of CBS and The San Jose Mercury News. Invent To Learn has been translated into nine languages. Dr. Stager’s most recent book is Twenty Things to Do with a Computer Forward 50: Future Visions of Education Inspired by Seymour Papert and Cynthia Solomon’s Seminal Work.

An elementary teacher by training, he has taught students from preschool through doctoral studies. In 1990, Dr. Stager led professional development in the world’s first laptop schools and played a major role in the early days of online education. Gary is the founder of the Constructing Modern Knowledge summer institute for educators.

Takeaways

Learn more about learning through making, tinkering, and engineering at Constructing Modern Knowledge.

The post Episode 22 – Rethinking Tinkering with Gary Stager appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.

Alfie Kohn is a legendary and fearless educator, author, and guest speaker who has been featured at the Constructing Modern Knowledge summer institute on three separate occasions, including our very first year. This episode features a recording of his stunning conversation at CMK 2022. He covers a wide range of topics with great wit, passion, insight and courage. I know you will be sure to enjoy what he has to say and encourage you to share it with friends.

Please join us this July for another fantastic institute featuring equally remarkable guest speakers. Learn more at constructingmodernknowledge.com.

The post Episode 21 – Alfie Kohn at CMK 2022 appeared first on Constructing Modern Knowledge Online.