This episode is a bit different. I have provided some context and in the show notes is a link to another podcast I appeared on called Board Talks Off the Cuff which focussed on Pacifika and the challenges faced in pursuing a seat at a governance table. The podcast is sponsored by the Institute of Directors and the link is below.

 https://www.iod.org.nz/news/boardroom/podcasts-3/podcast-board-talk-off-the-cuff#/

In this episode, I spoke with Michelle Nguyen, a Gen Z community development professional originally from Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, now building her career in Aotearoa New Zealand.

Michelle shares her journey of moving abroad at a young age and navigating her first experiences in Western workplaces where communication is more direct, hierarchy is flatter, and speaking up is expected. Together, we explore how cultural background shapes the way people engage at work, particularly in environments where psychological safety and open dialogue are critical.

We discuss the contrast between indirect and direct communication styles, the challenge of finding your voice in a new culture, and the role leaders play in creating environments where diverse perspectives are genuinely heard. Michelle also reflects on her research into leadership communication and employee engagement, highlighting how two-way communication can strengthen connection, trust, and performance.

For safety professionals and leaders, this conversation offers practical insight into how cultural intelligence impacts engagement, inclusion, and ultimately safer workplaces. From small everyday moments like sharing food or asking questions, to bigger systemic shifts around voice and belonging, this episode is a reminder that safety is deeply human, and culturally shaped.

A thoughtful and honest discussion about identity, adaptation, and what it really takes to create workplaces where everyone feels safe to contribute.

In this episode I catch up with Ned Legasby, author, CQ Fellow, and former media executive to explore how cultural intelligence (CQ) shapes not just storytelling, but how people experience work, risk, and safety.

Ned shares his journey from a 30-year career in media to developing a framework for culturally intelligent storytelling, sparked by a simple but powerful question: Can stories truly resonate across cultures?

Through examples from Southeast Asian cinema, including the viral Thai film How to Make Millions Before Grandma Dies, Ned unpacks how stories travel, not by becoming more “global,” but by becoming more culturally specific and authentic.

The conversation then shifts into the workplace, where Ned helps to connect these ideas to safety practice in culturally diverse environments.

Key Takeaways

• Cultural intelligence is not optional, it’s foundational.
  Whether in storytelling or safety, understanding how culture shapes behavior is essential. 
• Silence is not disengagement.
  In Filipino and other collectivist cultures, silence can signal respect, care, or a desire to preserve dignity, not a lack of awareness. 
• Safety is relational, not just individual.
  Concepts like kapwa (shared identity) shift responsibility from “my safety” to “our safety.” 
• Cultural values influence risk perception.
  Ideas like bahala na are often misunderstood, what looks like risk tolerance may actually reflect trust, faith, or optimism. 
• Leadership must adapt, not assume.
  High power distance cultures may not challenge unsafe decisions, placing greater responsibility on leaders to invite input. 
• Storytelling is a powerful safety tool.
  Stories create understanding where rules and procedures often fail. 

Final Reflection

If we are serious about safety, we must go beyond systems and compliance.

We must understand people.

Because the difference between compliance and genuine care is often cultural.

In this episode, I chat with Michelle and explore how her cultural intelligence was shaped through lived experience and why it matters in the world of safety. Michelle draws on her upbringing as the daughter of Dutch immigrants, her early experiences of different cultures through travel, and her involvement in working across diverse industries and workforces, Michelle shares how culture quietly influenced trust, communication, and decision-making at work.

From learning to adapt her natural directness and creating psychologically safe environments for workers from different cultural backgrounds, Michelle also had to navigate culture shock as she moved from one organisational settings to another. Our conversation challenges some of the long-held assumptions in health and safety practice.

This episode reminds us that safety isn’t just about systems and compliance, it’s about people. And if we want better outcomes, we need to get better at understanding them.

Key Takeaways

• Self-awareness is the starting point - Understanding how your communication style is received by others is critical to building trust and influence. 
• Those with perceived power must adapt - Safety professionals and leaders carry responsibility to adjust their approach to suit the needs of others, not the other way around. 
• Culture goes beyond ethnicity - Organisational culture, upbringing, life experience, and context all shape how people interpret risk and respond to safety. 
• Surface signals can be misleading - Smiles, silence, and agreement don’t always mean understanding or wellbeing, there’s often more beneath the surface. 
• Listening is a skill that needs to be developed - Effective safety practice requires listening beyond words to understand intent, context, and unspoken concerns.

What a conversation, Marsha always manages to include seriousness, professionalism and fun into every conversation. Before we wrap this episode, let’s reflect on a few key takeaways from my conversation with the incredible Marsha Ramroop:

1. Inclusion Starts with Behavior, Not Identity
   Marsha emphasized that true inclusion isn't about categorizing others—it’s about examining our own behaviors. This teaches us to Start with introspection to build more inclusive environments.
2. Cultural Intelligence is the “How” of Inclusion
   Through the Cultural Intelligence (CQ) framework, Marsha showed us how behaviors can be intentionally shaped to drive better outcomes in diversity and safety. CQ really does bridge the gap between intent and impact.
3. Safety Without Inclusion Isn’t Really Safe
   From PPE fit to fire door accessibility, Marsha unpacked how exclusionary design can undermine safety efforts. In short If your safety practices aren’t inclusive, they’re not effective.
4. Storytelling as a Tool for Change
   Drawing from her journalism career, Marsha shared how telling unheard stories can shift perspectives and reshape organizational culture. Giving voice to the unheard is how empathy and change begin.
5. Designing for Inclusion = Designing for Everyone
   Whether in architecture or policy, inclusive design benefits more than just marginalized groups—it creates better systems for all. Inclusion is not a nice-to-have; it’s a design principle for progress.

What a though provoking conversation with Dr Hend Zaki, we covered a lot of ground from hijab and handshakes to halal food and prayer rooms and how these realities impact Muslims at work every single day. What’s clear is that workplaces can’t just rely on general diversity policies. To ensure people feel seen and supported, organisations need to embed inclusion into their systems, their leadership, and their everyday interactions.

What stood out most to me in this conversation was just how much inclusion depends on curiosity the kind that moves beyond surface-level gestures and into real cultural understanding. Hend’s experiences and research highlight that meaningful inclusion for Muslim professionals doesn’t just happen by accident it requires intention, humility, and structure.

Here are five key lessons and actions for health and safety professionals and workplace leaders looking to build more inclusive environments for Muslim colleagues:

 Five Key Lessons + Actions for Inclusive Workplaces

1. Belonging Doesn’t Come from Appearance — It Comes from Acceptance

Action: Build real connection by getting to know your team personally. Inclusion is felt when people are treated as whole individuals, not stereotypes.

2. Visibility of Difference Must Not Lead to Isolation

Action: Educate staff on the diversity within Islam and avoid assumptions. Foster curiosity over judgment — especially around topics like hijab, prayer, and gender dynamics.

3. Support Cultural Needs Through Systems, Not Just Goodwill

Action: Formalize accommodations in onboarding kits and HR policies — e.g., prayer spaces, flexibility during Ramadan, halal food at events. Don't rely on employees having to ask.

4. Respect Goes Beyond Handshakes

Action: Normalize alternative greetings. Teach teams that gestures like placing a hand on the heart are respectful and rooted in religious values — not a sign of disengagement.

5. Psychological Safety Requires Cultural Intelligence

Action: Train leaders to recognize unconscious bias and ingroup/outgroup dynamics. Understand how stereotypes and media narratives may silently shape workplace behavior.

In this episode, I sat down with Dr. Danielle Henry, an organizational leader and cultural intelligence expert, to explore how leadership psychology and empathetic practices shape workplace culture. We talked about the mosaic of cultural backgrounds present in every organization, and the need to build systems that support, not just demand our best efforts. From her reflections on global project work to her bold take on the “dark side” of cultural intelligence, Dannie brought deep insight and a grounded honesty to the table. Whether you’re in the boardroom or out on site, this one’s packed with truths worth holding onto. 

Here are my 5 key takeaways

 CQ Goes Beyond Culture Days
Don’t let cultural awareness be a checkbox. Create real, immersive opportunities for people to engage with different worldviews, celebrating culture days is great, but go beyond that to help your workers truly understand the why behind their values and norms.

1. Wellbeing Requires Systems, Not Perks
   Massages and gym passes are nice, but what your people really need are integrated support systems: regular opportunities to give your brain a break, through mindfulness sessions or mental health breaks that aren’t guilt-ridden.
2. Middle Management is the Culture Bottleneck
   Senior leaders might “get it”, but culture lives and dies with middle managers. Train and empower them with CQ tools, not just policy handbooks.
3. Don’t Confuse Knowledge with Competency
   Knowing about a culture isn’t the same as leading effectively across difference. Competency means applying that knowledge with nuance, respect, and humility.
4. Burnout is a Leadership Issue, Not Just an HR One
   When your caregivers are exhausted, your system is failing. Make wellbeing for health and safety professionals a strategic priority, not just a wellness week initiative.

What a pleasure to speak with Moni, the conversation wasn't just about safety—it was about systems, culture, and the courage to do things differently. My key findings and lessons from this discussion include:

1. Work is Adaptive, and not Just about Compliance
   Moni shared how early career experiences taught her that safety of work isn't about ticking boxes, it’s about understanding the real-time complexity of work.
   → Lesson: If you want to improve safety, start by understanding how work actually happens, not just how it's written in procedures.
2. Learning Teams Unlock Real Performance
   Moni’s work with learning teams has shown that collaboration leads to better decisions, stronger controls, and more engaged teams.
   → Lesson: Safety professionals must become facilitators of learning, not enforcers of rules.
3. Cultural Intelligence Builds Real Trust
   In projects like the one with Pacific seasonal workers, Moni highlighted that meaningful engagement starts with cultural respect and humility.
   → Lesson: To truly engage people, you need to first understand—and value—their worldview, not just impose your own.
4. Power Means Responsibility to Adapt
   Moni emphasized that those in leadership or facilitation roles must recognize their influence and adapt to others—not the other way around.
   → Lesson: If you hold power—perceived or real—it’s your responsibility to create space for others, especially in multicultural settings.
5. Safety I and Safety II Are Not Opposites
   Using a powerful analogy, Moni likened Safety I and Safety II to Russian dolls—each layer adding value, not replacing the one before it.
   → Lesson: Don’t wait to “perfect” Safety I before trying new approaches—Safety II is not a replacement; it’s an evolution.

Moni's message is a challenge and an invitation: to stop chasing perfection, and instead start learning—alongside your teams, within your systems, and across your cultures. If we want safer, smarter, and more connected workplaces, this is the path forward.

For more of Moni's work see her book Discovering the New Vioew of Safety Using Learning Teams and the Horticulture NZ Case study using Learning Teams at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNmO_3nE4TQ

What a great honour to speak with Trisha a real early adopter of CQ, our conversation explored the pivotal moments that shaped Trisha’s career, including her early insights into organizational dysfunction, her transformative experiences living in China, and her work helping individuals and organizations build cultural intelligence (CQ). 

We discussed the real-world applications of CQ in workplace safety, leadership, and organizational effectiveness, highlighting how metacognition and awareness of cultural dynamics can help professionals navigate complex multicultural environments more effectively. Here are some of my takeaways.

1. Shifting From Assumptions to Awareness

Description:
Trisha shares how living in China revealed the limits of her Western-centric organizational psychology training, sparking her journey into cultural intelligence.

Lesson:
We need to recognize that our existing frameworks may not apply universally. Building CQ starts with acknowledging and addressing those blind spots.

2. The Power of Metacognition in Cultural Strategy

Description:
Trisha emphasizes the importance of helping people reflect on their thought processes (metacognition), especially in navigating cultural differences consciously rather than reactively.

Lesson:
This teaches us that Leaders can improve cross-cultural interactions by teaching teams to pause, reflect, and plan their communication strategies rather than relying on instinct alone.

3. Navigating Power Distance and Voice in Diverse Workplaces

Description:
The discussion highlights how employees from high power distance cultures often struggle to speak up in flatter, low power distance environments like Australia or New Zealand.

Lesson:
What the learning?, Organizations should create psychologically safe spaces where contributions from all team members are expected, valued, and supported, helping them build the confidence to participate fully.

 4. Bridging Cultural Dynamics in Safety Leadership

Description:
The episode explored how safety protocols often clash with cultural expectations, such as the assumption that leaders will ensure safety on behalf of the team.

Lesson:
Safety professionals must balance procedural compliance with cultural sensitivity by adapting their communication and leadership styles to different cultural mindsets.

5. Moving From Diversity Statements to Culturally Intelligent Action

Description:
While organizations often promote diversity publicly, true impact happens when cultural intelligence is developed at every level—from executives to frontline supervisors.

Lesson:
Our final lesson, It’s not enough to "tick the diversity box." Building an inclusive culture requires investing in CQ capabilities across all levels of the organization, ensuring everyday behaviors match the stated values.

The discussion with Trisha unpacks how recognizing blind spots, practicing metacognition, navigating power dynamics, blending safety with cultural sensitivity, and turning diversity talk into daily action can transform how professionals thrive in multicultural environments.

In this episode of The Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional, I speak with Emma Jordaan — cultural intelligence strategist, CEO of Infinite Consulting, host of The HR & CQ Show, and recently published author of Dubai Decoded. Emma brings over two decades of experience from across the UK, Europe, and the UAE to share practical insights on how cultural intelligence (CQ) transforms workplace safety and leadership in multicultural environments.

Our conversation dives deep into power distance, communication styles, and the psychological dynamics that affect trust, reporting, and risk perception, here are my key takeaways — especially in sectors like construction where safety is critical. Emma also shares reflections from her time in the Society of CQ Fellows. 

1. Storytelling is a Cross-Cultural Safety Superpower

In multicultural settings, safety messages often get lost in translation — literally and culturally. Emma highlights how storytelling personalizes risk and transcends communication barriers. A compelling example: an engineer shared his lived experience of losing an eye to drive home PPE compliance, far more effectively than a rulebook ever could.

Lesson: Stories evoke empathy and resonate universally — especially when traditional authority-driven messaging fails.

2. “Yes” Doesn’t Always Mean Yes — Especially in High Power-Distance Cultures

Emma breaks down how cultures with hierarchical norms often foster indirect communication. Workers may agree outwardly with leadership to “save face” or avoid conflict, even when they disagree or don't understand. This creates dangerous blind spots in safety-critical environments.

Lesson: Leaders must dig deeper — ask more questions, read between the lines, and foster an environment where people feel safe enough to say “no.”

 3. Language Matters — Simplicity, Clarity, and Translation Save Lives

In workplaces with dozens of nationalities, assuming everyone understands English the same way is risky. Emma recommends simplifying all safety communication — ditching jargon and fluff — and, where possible, translating briefings into employees’ native languages.

Lesson: Clear and inclusive communication reduces accidents and fosters trust.

4. Psychological Safety Requires Cultural Adaptation

Creating a “speak up” culture isn’t enough if the act of speaking up is culturally uncomfortable. Many workers, especially those on visas or in lower-status roles, fear consequences for being honest. Emma recommends anonymous reporting channels and culturally sensitive leadership to bridge that gap.

Lesson: Psychological safety is not one-size-fits-all — it must be designed with cultural dynamics in mind.

 5. CQ Drive Is the First Step — and the Most Critical

Of the four capabilities in the CQ model (Drive, Knowledge, Strategy, Action), Emma emphasizes CQ Drive as foundational. Without the internal motivation to adapt, no amount of knowledge or strategy will translate into behavior change.

Lesson: Cultural intelligence starts with the desire to understand and flex — everything else builds from there.