The David Andrew Wiebe Show

Have you ever wanted to explore the possibility of performing in alternative venues?

One of the advantages of showing up where no one else is performing is that you can create a market that belongs to you. Plus, price elasticity also applies – you can charge more for the performance than you might be able to in the average music venue.

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David explains how to book a coffeehouse show. The same approach can work in an array of alternative venues, because businesses do business with other businesses.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:16 – The story of how David booked a showcase at a Starbucks

00:49 – How to approach a store manager to get your show booked

01:37 – Success is not guaranteed

01:48 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

Transcription:

Hey, it's David Andrew Wiebe. I've told the story that follows in several different ways on different occasions, but the essence of it is this. I'd booked a showcase for three artists at a Starbucks. Afterward, there were other musicians in attendance. They came up to me and asked, "So how did you manage to book a Starbucks?" And then I shared with them the details of how I'd handed a business card to the manager of Starbucks and asked if they were open to having us come in with a few artists to perform. And they were more than agreeable to have us in.

Now, I think here's the big takeaway here. The fact that I presented a business card made a difference. It wasn't just, "Hi, I'm David Andrew Wiebe, I'm an artist, I'm a rock musician, and I want to book a gig at your venue." That's not how the conversation went.

When she saw the business card, she could plainly and clearly see that it was from a business, not just a local independent musician. But the thing is, you don't have to have a business to do this. Just about anybody could take the same idea and book in alternative venues. All you really need is a collective. So, you could say, "Hey, I'm from so-and-so artist collective or music collective" or whatever you want to call it, some kind of community, and that could immediately help you create the opportunity of booking in venues that you might not otherwise be able to.

Now, I'm not saying this will work out every single time, but it could certainly broaden the number of opportunities you can get locally, as well as the exposure you can get for your music.

Well, the insight you just heard is also available in my book, The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide. For a limited time, you can get it for free at davidandrewwiebe.com/FreeBook.

This has been episode 292 of The New Music Industry Podcast. I'm David Andrew Wiebe, and I look forward to seeing you on the stages of the world.

There are many things that can stop you on your path to creating the life you love through music. But most things that will stop you fall under one major category – mindset. Mindset isn’t just how you think. It’s how you show up and how you deal with challenges, events, and circumstances as they arise.

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David shares the importance of taking full responsibility and how it will transform your music career from the roll of the dice to counting cards.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:17 – Something that comes up time and again in The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide

00:51 – The magic to taking full responsibility for your music career

01:53 – Think in terms of actions you took what you could have done better

02:05 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

Transcription:

Hey, it's David Andrew Wiebe. You know, something that comes up time and again in the early chapters of The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide is this whole idea of taking full responsibility for yourself and your music career, and that should tell you how important it is.

I'm not being repetitive to be repetitive. We all know the importance of repetition as musicians, right? If you want to get really good at something, whether it's playing the guitar or singing or writing songs, repetition helps reinforce the skills that we need to learn to become better at our craft.

So, even though there's really nothing woo-woo about this, there is a certain magic to taking full responsibility. Your life transforms the moment that you take responsibility for everything that's ever happened in your life, and you stop blaming other people, other events, and other things for the way things turned out. It's about taking full ownership. You might remember that from an earlier episode.

Again, this is not a harsh truth, but I don't know how artists hope or expect to be able to get anywhere in their careers without first taking full responsibility for who they are, what they've done, what they haven't done, outcomes produced, results produced, or otherwise.

Oftentimes we think it's up to something else, someone else, some other factor. It rained that day. I wasn't feeling good. I was tired, and it's none of those things.

So, instead of doing lengthy post-mortems, thinking about what went wrong in that gig and why it was so-and-so's fault, why the weather could have been better that day, and why was the hockey game on? Let's start thinking in terms of "What did we do to prepare for this show? How did we promote it? What were the specific things we could have done better?" That's a much more productive use of your time.

Closing Segment

So, if you enjoyed this episode, what you just heard was an insight from The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide. You can get the book for free at davidandrewwiebe.com/FreeBook.

This has been episode 291 of The New Music Industry Podcast. I'm David Andrew Wiebe, and I look forward to seeing you on the stages of the world.

Everyone’s talking about making sales funnels. Yes, they are great, and yes, they are built on a solid foundation of traditional marketing philosophy.

But there are some serious challenges to getting your first sales funnel up and running never mind selling your music and merch for you.

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David shares how you can test your sales funnel idea without wasting an insane amount of money and time.

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Podcast Highlights:

01:02 – Setting up your own “ghetto sales funnel”

02:46 – The four items you need to set up your sales funnel

04:02 – Step by step process for building your ghetto sales funnel

05:47 – Driving traffic to your sales funnel

07:48 – Episode summary

08:15 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

Digital Marketing Essentials for Musicians: When it comes to getting your music out there online, it’s easy to get caught up in a lot of stuff that doesn’t matter and will never work. If you want just the essentials that have been proven to work, you need the Digital Marketing Essentials for Musicians course.

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official, definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

Transcription:

Hey, it's David Andrew Wiebe. As you know, I love to connect you with other great music industry resources and today I wanted to share The Unstarving Musician with you. The Unstarving Musician, hosted by Robonzo, was created as a way to help other independent musicians better understand the marketing, business, and creative processes that empower us to make music and make a living doing it. Episodes feature insights from Robonzo and a wide array of guests. Topics covered on The Unstarving Musician includes songwriting, recording, release strategy, building an audience, music licensing, and more. hear it at UnstarvingMusician.com or wherever you get your audio. And if you'd like to dig in the archives a little bit, you can hear Robonzo on episode 164 and episode 259 of the New Music Industry podcast.

Alright, so in today's episode, I wanted to talk about setting up your very own ghetto sales funnel. I'm interrupting a series of podcasts on my latest book, The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide to bring this to you. But rest assured I will be sharing more insights from the book in future episodes.

Ghetto Sales Funnel?

What the hell is a ghetto sales funnel? And why would you want to build one? And why does it even matter?

Look, a lot of people are going to sell you on purchasing expensive software to build your first sales funnel, and that's not wrong.

But the problem with it is that you're not going to be very good at building sales funnels the first time you do it. And this is something you get better at with more experience.

I've done many launches before, not all of them sales funnels, but there were definitely a few of them. And I can tell you from experience, every time you do it, you get better. And so, so many people that are trying to build sales funnels from scratch, they don't have the experience, or knowledge, or knowhow to create anything great on the first go round. If you have an idea, you might as well test it. Minimum viable style, right?

And then the other problem is that many experts are teaching you how to sell like a $5 tripwire, and then a $15 upsell, and a $30 one-time offer. This is wrong. You're either not going to be able to make enough to spend on advertising, or you're not going to make any money at all. There's the danger of losing money if you do things that way.

So, you can test your sales funnel idea relatively inexpensively, and the reality is you're going to need to do all the same things to promote it anyway. So, the only thing that changes when you go from a normal sales funnel to a ghetto sales funnel is the step-by-step setup.

For this episode, some knowledge of sales funnels is recommended, and if you have no idea what I'm talking about, well by the end of this episode, you should be good and murky.

The 4 Items You Need for a Ghetto Sales Funnel

So, why don't we look at what we need to get started. There are really just four items.

First, you need a way to capture email addresses and send email campaigns. I recommend ConvertKit. You can find it at davidandrewwiebe.com/ConvertKit. I am an affiliate of ConvertKit and may earn a small commission on qualifying purchases.

Two. We need a way to sell the product. So, it could be Bandcamp, it could be Gumroad, or even Sellfy. Free to low-cost solutions work great for ghetto sales funnels. Honestly, that's the point. I'm an affiliate with Sellfy, and you can check out their e-commerce solution at davidandrewwiebe.com/Sellfy.

Three. You need something to give away. You need an irresistible offer. It could be a series of music or behind the scenes videos, free album or EP, an eBook, a free report, something people will happily exchange their email addresses for.

And then number four, we need something to sell. You need to think big here. Let's not go to all the hard work of setting up a sales funnel and getting people to check out our offer only to sell them on a $5 to $15 product. Go for at least $65, please.

Setting Up Your Ghetto Sales Funnel

Okay, now let's talk about setting up your sales funnel.

Hopefully you have an email list and an email service provider or ESP already, but if not, go set up an account at davidandrewwiebe.com/ConvertKit now. You're going to need one of these whether you build a sales funnel or not.

Now that you have your account, put capture boxes on your website promoting your free offer. We want to make sure this is loud and clear and visible and it's the first thing that people see when they go to your website. You want to prioritize people signing up.

You'll want to set up an autoresponder with a link where people can download your free offer.

Then this step is crucial. You want to set up your download page, and you're going to want to either link to your upsell on the download page, inside your free offer, or both.

In an eBook that's pretty simple, right? "This is where you go to buy the thing." You can put that link at the end of the eBook, but if you're giving away audio or videos, remember you can include a call to action at the end of these. Even if it's an album, you can include a secret audio track saying, "Hey, come and check out our offer right here at this link."

And this is really important. You need to sell people on the spot. It's crucial because there are always people who will buy then and there.

Now you can set up your upsell on Bandcamp, Gumroad, or Sellfy. And again, we're going to skip tripwires completely. So, sell something that's about $65, no low ticket offers please.

If you're not sure what to sell, here are a few ideas.

Merch bundles

Your entire music catalog (if you have more than one or two albums)

Vinyl albums

Remixes

Handwritten lyric sheets

Guitar tabs

Behind the scenes or making-of videos

Some combination thereof

And that's all you need to get your ghetto sales funnel up and running. It didn't take any fancy software, just a willingness to innovate.

Driving Traffic to Your Ghetto Sales Funnel

How to get your sales funnel out there.

We're going to use all the standard channels to drive traffic to the ghetto sales funnel. If you're not acquainted with these, we'll go over them real quick.

Remember, if you've got time, but no money, make more content. And if you've got money, but no time, make more ads.

The first channel is content and there's simply no excuse not to be doing this anymore.

You've got ChatGPT and other AI tools and other free or low-cost tools that can help with the process of producing blog posts and social media posts. Canva's another great one. I still recommend editing and fact checking everything yourself. If you're going to use AI. And putting it all in your own voice. But either way, AI can help make the process more streamlined.

You should link to your free offer in every content piece, place an opt-in box at the bottom of the page, or both. It doesn't matter whether you're making video or audio or text content.

The second channel is Dream 100. There's a blog post on this topic at davidandrewwiebe.com you can reference, but the essence is to identify the specific influencers, artists, journalists, bloggers, podcasters, labels that could help you grow your following, build relationships with them, and create opportunities to collaborate. That part is up to you though. You've got to put in the time and the effort and the work to build that relationship, which might include sending gifts.

The third channel is advertising. And as I mentioned earlier, it's a channel worth pursuing if you've got the funds for it. With advertising, the moment you turn the tap on, rivers begin gushing towards your offer, but the moment you turn it off, the waters disappear. And we have to create compelling ads, and that's a form of content too, and it's honestly not the easiest thing in the world. You usually do end up having to test multiple offers to see what works.

Now what I've just shared with you aren't all the ways you can promote your sales funnel. But if you'd like to dive deeper, you should certainly explore the nautical ton of podcast episodes we've published to this point, and you'll come away with plenty of traffic strategies to action.

Episode Summary

Now here's your episode summary:

...

Everywhere you look, there are incredibly talented YouTubers. Is everyone a virtuoso? It’s sure starting to look that way. Not to mention – they look and sound great. How is one even supposed to compete?

Well, here’s the funny thing. There are a couple of things most artists – and not just artists but even digital marketers and SEO agencies – aren’t very good at. Care to find out what those things are, so you have a chance even in an increasingly noisy world?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David shares how you can stand out from the crowd.

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Podcast Highlights:

01:00 – Is the bar higher than ever?

01:49 – Two things most artists aren’t that great at

03:27 – The secret to pitching

04:18 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official, definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

Transcription:

Hey, it's David Andrew Wiebe. Today I wanted to let you know about another really great podcast called The Unstarving Musician. This show is hosted by Robonzo, and it was created as a way to help other independent musicians better understand the marketing, business, and creative processes that empower us to make music and make a living doing it.

Episodes feature insights from Robonzo and a wide array of guests. Topics covered on The Unstarving Musician includes songwriting, recording, release strategy, building an audience, musical licensing, and more. Hear it at Unstarving Musician .com or wherever you get your audio. I also did a couple of interviews with The Unstarving Musician, and you'll be able to hear me over there as well.

With that, let's get into today's episode.

And today I wanted to talk about separating yourself from the pack. A lot of people tend to think this is harder than it's ever been. Like how do you stand out? How do you cut through the noise? How can you be so unique, so different, so compelling, so noteworthy, so interesting that people are just naturally and automatically and magnetically drawn to you.

And the reality is, sure the bar is pretty high in terms of production. Even independent records nowadays tend to sound pretty amazing with all the technology and knowledge that's out there. I've found some incredible guides on mixing online that have made a huge difference to my own mixes.

And sure, the bar might be high in terms of artistry and musicianship and craftsmanship. You can find some incredible players out there, whether it's Tosin Abasi, or Steve Vai, or Joe Bonamassa.

But you know where the bar isn't very high, is in pitching. A lot of musicians are unskilled when it comes to pitching. Now I get it. There's actually a lot of discomfort around the subject matter. Any time I post something about networking or growing your network or finding more people or creating connections, I often see responses from other people, artists, my social media followers, or otherwise saying, "well, I'm an introvert."

And you know, being an introvert doesn't exclude you from getting to know people. They say even people who live in a cave will probably impact 10,000 people in their lifetime. So being an introvert has nothing to do with it. That is as much a label as anything else, so we don't want to use that as an excuse for not connecting.

But I think people misinterpret it too, as in, "okay, I need to go to these networking events and hand out business cards and run off." It's like, no, don't do the hit and run. A lot of people do that and they're terribly ineffective at networking. They're really just trying to work through their own discomfort. If you watch them closely, that's what's actually going on there.

What I'm saying is smile, extend your hand, make some friends, go to the open mic, and get to know the host and get to know the people performing that night. Anybody can do this.

Now I know it might make you a little nervous. I know it might be a little bit confronting, but at the end of the day, we can all do this. I was in network marketing for about four or five years and at first, I made it my goal to say "hi" to one person today. And before I knew it, I was having real conversations with five people a day. And some people may have said I was shy at one point too.

But when it comes to pitching, it isn't necessarily just meeting people in person. Oftentimes it's done by email nowadays, and there's a right way of approaching people and another way that tends not to work. And if I was to make this high level.

It's basically when you approach people and you have a value proposition and it benefits the other person... in other words, you're crafting a win-win sort of pitch, and you actually are aware and conscious of the other person that you're talking to on the other end of that email address, then you'll do well.

But if all you're doing is pitching to get something for yourself, oftentimes it doesn't work because it's not coming across as an opportunity to the person you're talking to. So really the key to hammering good pitches is to make sure that your pitches are coming across as an opportunity to the person you are sending them to.

So, what I just shared with you, you can also find in my book, The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide. Believe it or not, I'm giving it away for free for a limited time. You can go to davidandrewwiebe.com/FreeBook to claim your own.

This has been episode 289 of The New Music Industry podcast. I'm David Andrew Wiebe and I look forward to seeing you on the stages of the world.

There is no power in viewing everything in your music career as happenstance and circumstance. The power is in taking responsibility for your actions and even the outcomes you produce.

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David shares how you can reap the rewards of an ownership mindset and achieve elevated results in your music career.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:17 – Ownership mindset: Why it’s so powerful!

01:12 – Why being on the hook leads to greater rewards

01:39 – How having an entrepreneurial mindset lightens your load

03:09 – Elevating yourself means elevating your music career

03:31 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official, definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

Transcription:

Hey, it's David Andrew Wiebe. Today I wanted to talk about something that is very foundational to having a successful artistic career. It's not necessarily easy. It can be challenging at times.

But what I want to talk about is the power of taking an ownership mindset. In other words, taking ownership of your goals, your objectives, your intentions, and even the results and outcomes you produce in your music career.

So often what people do is they don't take ownership of any of it, so they end up blaming the venue. They end up blaming circumstances, the weather. The hockey game, pretty much anything they can think of.

"Well, you know, no one turned out to our show because tonight there was a hockey game, and everybody was going to see that." Well, who is responsible for booking the show? It was you, wasn't it? Or it was at least someone in your band. I can't imagine it was your manager or your agent. So, why aren't you taking ownership for that?

I think oftentimes people don't want to be on the hook for anything, which is why they don't commit. But when you are on the hook for something, you have the chance to be paid immeasurably more for the work you do.

Another way of thinking about this is entrepreneurial mindset versus employee mindset. Why do entrepreneurs get paid more for what they do? Because they take on the bulk of the risk. So, are you willing to take on the bulk of the risk for the chance at a better income in your music career?

Now, what's the difference between an entrepreneurial mindset and employee mindset? Here's a statement that really brings it into view. Employee mindset is working for other people and money. And an entrepreneurial mindset is having money and other people work for you.

Now, you're a creative, you're an artist, obviously. You're going to be the one working on your music, probably doing some song writing or composing or arranging, recording in the studio, performing live. You're going to have different responsibilities as an artist, so that part, you'll want to take ownership over yourself.

It's not necessarily about having other bands work for you, right? Unless you're planning to start a label, which might be a cool entrepreneurial endeavor. Don't get me wrong, I've thought about doing that too, and I might still start a label here someday.

But practically speaking, the way that we can have money and other people work for us is by hiring virtual assistants, and freelancers, graphic designers, photographers. When you digitally distribute your music, that in effect is an entrepreneurial mindset because it's not something you're doing yourself. You're paying other people to do that work for you.

And there are many opportunities. You don't necessarily have to dish out huge amounts of money to get work done on your behalf. I remember stuffing envelopes with my band mates and my sister. Nobody got paid for it. I think we might have shared a pizza later that night, but everybody was there for the common reason of "let's get this band out there and see if we can get it booked." So, we were putting together a postal mail campaign.

So, the question I'm going to leave you with is, where can you take more ownership of your music career? Where are you not taking ownership of your music career? Because if you begin adopting an ownership mentality, you have a greater chance at producing results and outcomes that you want and being paid what you're worth.

What I've just shared with you is part of The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide. I'm giving this book away for free for a limited time. You'll want to go to davidandrewwiebe.com/FreeBook to get your own copy.

This has been episode 288 of The New Music Industry Podcast. I'm David Wiebe and I look forward to seeing you on the stages of the world.

How do you build an authentic connection with your fans? Can you be true to yourself and your art and still build a viable fan base? What does it take to build your music career in 2023 and beyond?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, you’ll be hearing from partner at Collective Entertainment and founder of #iVoted Festival, Emily White.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:17 – Preamble

00:58 – Today’s guest, Emily White

01:10 – An artist’s email list is their retirement plan

05:23 – Who is Zoë Keating?

09:22 – Getting a booking agent is harder than getting a record contract?

12:56 – Why our opinion on your music doesn’t matter

15:24 – You’re the CEO of your own music career

18:56 – Why should artists learn to record and produce themselves?

20:46 – Spend one hour per day on your communication

24:22 – What is the last YouTube video Emily watched?

24:36 – What is Emily’s daily routine like?

27:19 – What is the greatest challenge Emily has overcome?

31:38 – What is the greatest victory Emily has experienced?

33:03 – What books have helped Emily on her journey?

34:33 – How to connect with Emily

35:10 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

Transcription:

Preamble

David: Hey, it's David Andrew Wiebe in the lab. Well, it happened again. I tried filming and recording an interview with Zoom. And my audio kept cutting out throughout, so what you're about to hear, it's all fixed up and repaired. It sounds great. I had to spend a lot of time doing this in the studio.

Not that you care too much about the gory details, but sometimes we do go to extraordinary lengths to make this happen for you. This does unfortunately mean you're not going to get to enjoy the video portion of the interview, though. It would've been entirely way too much work for me to try to line up my lip movements with the newly recorded tracks.

But that's all. Otherwise, the interview is, every bit as value adding as when I originally recorded it, so I hope you enjoy.

Emily White

Today I'm joined by partner at Collective Entertainment, founder of #IVoted Festival and number one Amazon bestselling author, Emily White. How are you today, Emily?

Emily: I'm okay, David. Thanks so much for having me.

David: Yeah, thanks for joining me today. We're going to jump right in, and the quote that I know you for and have probably even referenced or stolen at times is "an artist's email list is their retirement plan." This is something that makes an appearance in your book as well, and it's a full mic drop moment. But I would love for you to elaborate on why email lists are so important.

Emily: Yes, definitely. You know, tech companies are the most valuable companies in the world because they have all of our data and you know. I'm not saying don't be on social media or Spotify or anything like that, but I had the privilege of interviewing Seth Godin, last year, who of course invented permission marketing and he said it better than I do.

You know, on those platforms, you are the product. And why are these multi-billion-dollar platforms? Because they have all our data, right? They have your fan's email addresses, often their mobile phone numbers more often than not their locations. So it's not always the most like sexy, exciting thing, but artists and industry people really need to think of themselves as tech companies.

You know, I started working with The Dresden Dolls, almost 20 years ago, which was pretty wild. And when they were, you know, a local band, but a local band on the rise in Boston, they weren't getting booked at traditional venues because it was a very rock scene at that time. And so they were playing art galleries and lofts and all sort of, all sorts of alternative spaces.

So, the singer of the band, Amanda Palmer, started an email list. Really, I think just BCCing fans. I don't even know if like, email list software really existed then.

She was starting to build a small team at the time. But she said to me one day like, well, what happens if you go away? What if my attorney goes away? What if my booking agent goes away? This is my only direct pipeline to my audience to let them know about my shows and music.

In fact, I just got a e-blast from her this morning and I almost sent it to a university that I guest lecture at, because I'm like, she does such a good job with it. Like I couldn't stop looking at this photo of her with her son and her son's learning to play piano.

I mean, there was a lot of other really great info in it too. You know, you could barely say "hi" to the two people in that band and myself at the time, without us saying, "would you like to sign up for the email list?" Amanda's first solo album came out a few years later. They were signed to a major label subsidiary.

And I'm dating myself with the sales reference, but they sold like, you know, 10,000 copies. She sold like 10,000 copies in the first week, and a thousand were sold by the label, and 9,000 were sold, through the email list, which had bundles and high-end packages and easily cleared six figures in a few hours, let alone a day.

And then a few years after that, Amanda went on to raise the most money ever for a musician on Kickstarter. Over a million. And again, it took Seth Godin pointing something out to me. I guess I knew this, but again, took Seth pointing something out to me about an artist that I, you know, worked with intimately.

And he said that record was considered a failure by the major label subsidiary. It sold 20,000 copies, and then he said when she did her Kickstarter a few years later, guess how many backers there were? 20,000, right?

So, it's how you use this data and keeping in mind, like, Instagram's going to come and go. TikTok is going to come and go. Algorithms come and go. This is the only pipeline you have, you know, through text message lists. I really like the, the platform Community and of course good old email list. So, you know the powers and the data, and you have to take it as seriously, data collection at your shows and everywhere you go, take it as seriously as like your gear bag. You know?

David: I've often said that influencers often make aggressively mediocre money. There are those with small followings that are secretly killing it, and there are those with big followings that are secretly struggling. And I love Seth Godin's statement that you brought up, which is that we are the product on social media.

There are those with small followings that are secretly killing it, and there are those with big followings that are secretly struggling.Share on X

Emily: Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. I feel like there's something else I was going to say about that, but it'll come to me.

David: Yeah, if it comes to you, feel free to chime in.

Emily: Thanks.

David: You open your book, How to Build a Sustainable Music Career and Collect All Revenue Streams by stating Zoë Keating is the only artist you know who doesn't need to read the book.

And the thing that I was struck by in the foreword is just how self-aware Zoë seems to be. She doesn't do videos because she doesn't like them. She doesn't make T-shirts because they're not eco-friendly. And when asked whether she markets her music, her response was in effect, "I guess so." So please elaborate on who Zoë is and her self-awareness when it comes to making career related decisions.

Emily: Yeah, so Zoë is a brilliant cellist and musician and songwriter and composer. I, you know, not to contradict what we just said, but you know, for context, she has like a million Twitter followers, has a really robust text list and email list. And, you know, she really defines building a sustainable music career.

And, you know, on one hand, I'm not saying like, don't make music videos or don't make T-shirts or whatever. But the reason that's worked for her is... is that's authentic to her. You know, she talks a while about feeling very sexualized and having her femininity really noticed early in her career and that made her not want to make videos.

And it made her want to be all about the music. And her aversion to physical merch has to do with the environment. You know? So, here's someone that makes an excellent living. Knows how to communicate with her fans is all about going direct has almost has like the perfect career in the sense that she has a huge audience, but everybody feels like she's their little secret.

She lost her husband to cancer a few years ago. She's had a lot of tragic changes in her life, and she constantly figures out how to adjust and adapt to her situation. Whether it's like she can't really tour as much because she has to look after their child, you know?

So yeah, if you don't know who Zoë is, she's absolutely brilliant. Both musically and business-wise.

And I do want to give a shout out to my friend Gene Cook. Gene is probably another musician that doesn't need to read the book, so I would say it's Zoë and Gene.

David: Awesome. So not to negate the long to-do list artists have to do and at t

Scammers are everywhere. People are desperate. In tough times, people will go to extraordinary lengths to cover their bills and meet their needs.

In his coaching efforts, however, David often helps his clients create “possibility lists,” a long list of items (usually 50 to 100) possible sources of money an artist or entrepreneur can leverage to get themselves out of tough times. David usually finds his clients are back on track by the time they’ve actioned five to seven items.

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David shares how to navigate the desperate post-pandemic world.

Download the PDF Transcription

Podcast Highlights:

00:18 – Scamming is at an all time high

01:23 – A post-pandemic economic downturn

01:47 – The feeling of desperation

02:22 – Catfishing attempts

03:25 – Negative influence of the movies

03:42 – Opportunity and problem solving

04:15 – Creator economy

04:33 – Freelancing

05:05 – Advertising

05:22 – Affiliate marketing

05:44 – Collaboration

06:11 – Sponsorships

06:26 – Other opportunities

07:29 – Final thoughts

Sponsors:

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size, and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

Transcription:

Scamming is at an all time high. I pulled some stats from LegalJobs for your perusal. In the U.S., one in 10 adults will fall victim to scam or fraud every year. In 2018 alone, internet enabled theft, fraud, and exploitation were responsible for a massive $2.7 billion in financial losses. In 2019, phishing attempts grew by 65%. One in 10 profiles on free dating sites is a scam.

Anecdotally, I see attempts at scamming on a near daily basis, be it on Twitter, WhatsApp, BEGO LIVE, Line, YouTube comments, or otherwise.

I posted a video on a Coinbase Wallet scam in 2022. I ended up losing about $500 and every day there are multiple scammers trying to get people to sign up for their so-called services to recover their crypto, which is the furthest thing from their mind. They're just trying to take more money from the people who've already potentially lost thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Adding insult to injury, a post pandemic economic downturn was a foregone conclusion in my mind. It surprises me when people are so taken aback that things are taking a turn for the worst.

I mean, we have clowns running this country and it doesn't look all that different for our friends down south, so I'm not sure what people expected. But this is not a political show, and you don't need to agree to my opinions.

Desperation

I understand well the feeling of desperation. I've gone broke and in debt at least three times. A credit card company even started taking legal action against me last year.

I suspect there's a decline in morality and increase in narcissism and sociopathy because I don't know about you, but my conscious would be seared and rattled with guilt if I tried to extract money from people using anything less than ethical and legal means.

I'm all about working for big bags of money, don't get me wrong, but I put more than an honest day's work in on any given day, and I've earned my way to becoming an award-winning composer and best-selling author.

Catfishing

Recently on Twitter, there was someone trying to catfish me, and it's certainly not the first time someone has tried this on me, so I recognized all the signs. It's not like they were hard to identify either. They were posing as one person while sending me a picture of someone else entirely. It was some Instagram model that I possibly would not know about.

Sidebar, for those who don't know, you can upload a photo to Google to check if it's associated with any social networks, and this is an easy way to identify possible scammers.

Well, when I pointed this out to the person who was trying to catfish me, they admitted to me that they were scamming me, and I'd never had that happen before where someone actually admitted their crime. While they were apologetic, I'm not sure they were remorseful, because when I suggested that they go write for Medium, or do something, anything to earn a bit of extra cash on the side. They were like, "huh?"

Look, there's only so much free help I can provide this world sometimes. Keeping up with the podcast has proven a challenge, never mind keeping up with all my client deadlines. So, I left them to sit with it.

Indoctrination Through Media

I think I pointed out years ago that what I didn't like about certain movies - I was a video game and film critic at one point - was that movies like Fun with Dick and Jane were basically training people to turn to a life of crime at the first sign of something going wrong in their lives.

That statement, unfortunately, is kind of proving prophetic right now, when really for the most part, if people were just willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work, they'd be able to climb their way out of their hole and wouldn't it be god awful if they ended up enjoying the work too?

Problem Solving Skills & Practical Solutions

The issue here really isn't that there isn't any opportunity. The issue is that many people haven't been taught problem solving skills. It's one of the many failings of our current education system, sadly. Problem solving, though, is one of my favorite topics, and I see countless income opportunities for anyone willing to put in the work and remain patient with the process.

So, why don't we talk practical solutions?

Creator Economy

The first is creator economy. Whether it's YouTube, TikTok, Medium, Quora, Substack, or otherwise, there are many platforms where you can earn on the content you've created. I've never earned a living wage from any of these myself, but cumulatively, it has put hundreds, if not thousands of dollars back into my pocket.

Freelancing

Second, freelancing. I've been balancing my roles as an entrepreneur and freelancer for years, but when I was in the early stages of figuring out this whole independent living thing, I dedicated myself to freelancing. Freelancing and contract opportunities mostly came through connections I'd made. So, it's well worth building out your network if you want to pursue this.

You'll also want to identify what you're good at, whether that's writing, graphic design, web design, audio production, video editing or otherwise, and commit to improving at your craft, creating a portfolio, and seeking out opportunities.

Advertising

Next, advertising. While your earning potential with ads probably isn't going to be very high, combined with other solutions mentioned here, advertising is not a total waste. There's very little work involved in putting ads on your website, and it's a good way to earn passively, especially if your website drives good traffic.

Affiliate Marketing

Affiliate marketing. People say you've got to have massive traffic to your website to earn anything from affiliate marketing. But the funny thing artists often don't realize is they're already sending huge amounts of traffic to streaming platforms like Spotify, earning just pennies on the dollar for the same amount of effort. You could be earning hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in commissions promoting the right affiliate offers.

Collaboration

Collaboration. I'm not talking about asking your friend down the street whether they want to write a song together. I'm talking about punching above your weight class. I'm personally looking at pitching a prolific podcaster on the idea of working together on a new show myself. And his show earns him eight figures annually. He will probably say no, but if it works out it will end up being the opportunity of a lifetime. Are you aware of anyone like that? Are you willing to risk rejection to pitch them on an idea?

Sponsorships

Sponsorships. There is very good money in sponsorships. The trick is to find companies whose values are aligned with yours, and you also need access to an audience your sponsors want to reach. To keep your sponsors happy, you'll want to stay in touch with them on a weekly basis as well.

Other

And other. I'm only scratching the surface in terms of opportunities available. I'm aware that much of what I've talked about requires hard work, but with a bit of patience, you can bring in additional income to help in tough times.

Even an extra $500 per month can be life changing money for some people, and it's not hard to get. What it takes is a willingness to get to work, learn, and persevere. Successes in my life have mostly come because of stubbornness and not giving up rather than being smart or talented.

Get Creative

In tough times, limiting beliefs won't serve you. There are so many creative ways to go about problem solving your financial situation. You can even take a Joe job, collect cans and bottles, sell unneeded household items, or have a garage sale. You may not be able to solve your problems all at once, but bit by bit you can get to where you need to go. You can get back on track. So don't let pride get in the way. That's what ends up stopping people dead in their tracks....

If you simply do what successful people do, you will also find success. This is what marketing guru Dan Kennedy defines as “behavioral consistency.”

Founder of Mezz Entertainment Roanne Mesirow argues, however, that we should always remain open to opportunity, and there are no formulas to creating success in the music business.

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, you will discover the value of following your own path.

Download the PDF Transcription

Podcast Highlights:

00:29 – Roanne and fashion PR

02:04 – Why did Roanne make the transition to music?

03:04 – What does it take to be a manager?

04:40 – How did Roanne apply what she learned in fashion PR to apply it to the music business?

05:33 – How has PR changed?

07:03 – What is Roanne’s approach to getting artists exposure?

08:58 – What steps can we take to create the lives we love through our passions?

11:25 – Where can people find sounding boards and mentors?

13:27 – Does “behavioral consistency” lead to success?

17:00 – What was the last YouTube video Roanne watched?

17:29 – What is Roanne’s daily routine like?

18:56 – What is the greatest challenge Roanne has overcome?

20:26 – What is the greatest victory Roannae has celebrated?

21:30 – Mezz Entertainment’s internship program

23:02 – Roanne’s recommended books (and speeches)

26:41 – Final thoughts

Sponsors:

Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: The first of its kind – David’s new premium book covering productivity, featuring content from Music Entrepreneur HQ, his personal blog, his many books, and even Start Your Year the Right Way, which is included in its entirety. Be fully unleashed in accomplishing your dreams and desires!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size, and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

Change is often uncomfortable. Not only that, but it’s often hard, too. Things generally want to remain unchanged, and a great deal of energy and force can be exerted in changing habits, routines, actions, and anything else that might make a difference in your music career.

But when we force change, it tends not to stick.

So, what do you do if you’re stuck in a rut? How do you get out of it? In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David shares several ways music career inertia can be overcome.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:18 – Capturing ideas as they come to you

01:06 – Inertia and coasting

02:08 – Facing up to discomfort and inertia

03:34 – Making tough decisions

03:57 – Having difficult conversations

05:08 – Taking big, uncomfortable actions

05:49 – Identifying and changing unproductive habits

07:22 – Episode summary

Sponsors:

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex Fleece Zip Up Hoodie: Another exciting addition to our merch line. The official zip up hoodie is warm, comfy, stylish, unisex, and it’s even available in multiple sizes and colors! Click the “Buy this” button to add yours to your wardrobe now!

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size, and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official, definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

The Music Entrepreneur Code – 2022 Edition: The latest edition of The Music Entrepreneur Code, now with more ninja. This book features my personal story of failure and success, case studies, examples, insights, and more. Get paid for your passion and impact more fans without wasting thousands of dollars and years of your life.

Completing a yearlong leadership program. Embracing the nomadic life. Nearly being scammed by fraudulent landlords. Being sued by a credit card company. Filing for consumer proposal. Putting on a theatrical production in Calgary. 2023 was an insane year for David (read about it here and here).

And in this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, David recounts his experience from 2022 and shares what he sees coming next.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:17 – Happy New Year!

01:00 – The final stretch of the yearlong intensive leadership program

02:40 – Accidentally nomadic and out of control

04:09 – A spotty year for The New Music Industry Podcast

06:03 – The 3 Project

07:06 – Time to streamline

09:11 – Closing thoughts

Sponsors:

The New Music Industry Podcast Unisex T-Shirt: It’s finally here – the official podcast T-shirt! It’s comfy, it’s stylish, it’s unisex, and it’s available in multiple sizes and colors. Click on the link, choose your size, and color, and click on the “Buy this” button to get yours now!

The Music Entrepreneur Companion Guide: Get the official, definitive companion guide to The Music Entrepreneur Code covering, in clarity and detail, secrets to making it in the new music business.

The Music Entrepreneur Code – 2022 Edition: The latest edition of The Music Entrepreneur Code, now with more ninja. This book features my personal story of failure and success, case studies, examples, insights, and more. Get paid for your passion and impact more fans without wasting thousands of dollars and years of your life.