The David Andrew Wiebe Show

How can you have a more effective release? Are there steps you can take to ensure your music is noticed upon launch?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I talk to Outerloop Coaching co-founder Paul Phelps about the effective release strategy they’ve developed.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Quick personal update

02:00 – Who is Paul Phelps?

05:12 – What type of coaching does Outerloop offer?

07:37 – The overwhelming world of digital marketing for musicians

11:28 – The importance of systems in creativity

22:39 – What steps need to be taken to have a successful release?

30:40 – Launching your release

35:01 – The importance of focus on social media

36:26 – Are there other nuances that make the strategy work?

38:19 – Where can people go to learn more about coaching?

40:38 – Conclusion

Transcription:

I know that I’ve been kind of quiet throughout July.

As usual, this is not due to a lack of content to share with you but rather a mix of burnout, increasing workload, vacation time and planning for my future.

My one-week trip to Ontario, by the way, was entirely too brief but much needed and enjoyable.

But I wanted to talk a little bit about my plans. Though I can’t share any specifics just yet, I am looking to relocate in October.

Hard to believe, but I’ve been in Calgary, Alberta for nearly 23 years.

During that time, I made plenty of trips to Red Deer, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Camrose, Barrhead, various parts of British Columbia – which is Alberta’s neighboring province to the west – Saskatchewan, Ontario, Sandpoint and Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, Spokane, Washington, Portland, Oregon, Hawaii, Mexico, Japan, California and more.

In retrospect, I can see that I’ve never been one to sit still. I’ve often felt it important to have a home base of sorts, but that was always with the idea of being able to move freely between different locations, whether it was for the purpose of traveling, touring or otherwise.

That desire has only grown over time. So, as I look to the future, I plan to incorporate more adventure into my life.

In any case, I thought I would share a quick update with you before getting into today’s interview.

If you’ve ever wondered whether there’s a release strategy that can help you generate amazing results, you’re going to love this episode. Let’s get into it.

[Interview with Paul Phelps]

And I’m back to wrap up today’s episode.

You may have heard Paul mention a free pre-recording checklist in this episode. If you’re interested in grabbing your own, you can go to davidandrewwiebe.com/Outerloop. This offer comes with Mike Mowery’s Music Management Primer as well, so again, go to davidandrewwiebe.com/Outerloop to claim these free offers.

Thanks for listening and keep on rocking.

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Is burnout total B.S.? Can you just sleep it off and be on your merry way?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I share the dangers of burnout and why constantly hustling, and grinding isn’t the way forward in your career or business.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Back to the land of the living

00:55 – Burnout

03:02 – Overcoming burnout and solving business challenges

05:32 – Summary

06:01 – Transforming your career or business

Transcription:

Well, I’m finally back to the land of the living.

And, based on the level of burnout I was experiencing, I honestly thought I wouldn’t be feeling better until after summer.

Now, this isn’t to say I’m in ship shape now, but I’m beginning to feel a lot healthier.

I’ve already talked a little bit about my situation in episode 150 of the podcast, so if you need to catch up, you can start there.

But there’s one thing I didn’t address there, which is burnout.

Unless you’re a close friend of mine, there’s no way you would know that I’ve been slowly and steadily burning out this year.

For one thing, I haven’t taken a vacation since my trip to Japan in November 2017. So, that’s a major factor.

For another, I was taking an intensive four-month personal development program that started in January and ended in May. That program helped me generate some incredible results in life and in business, but it’s fair to say it was just one more thing on top of the many things I was already working on.

Because of the effort I’d put in, as summer neared, I was getting slammed with work.

This is a good problem to have, and honestly, it’s not a problem at all. But I had to come up with a strategy to keep the ball rolling.

But as the days wore on, I had trouble getting out of bed, my mind was foggy, and my shoulders were tense. I was in no place to come up with a workable solution.

That went on for weeks, even months. Since I hadn’t seen my naturopath since 2018, I decided it was high time to tap into his expertise again.

It took a while, but thanks to his help, I’ve started feeling healthier again.

If you’re an entrepreneur constantly hustling, then you probably know what I’m talking about.

But based on the kinds of things I’ve heard others say, I honestly think most people haven’t experienced burnout at this level, which is typically linked to adrenal and thyroid fatigue.

I’ve mentioned burnout in conversation before, and the most common response I’ve gotten is:

“Oh, you’re burned out? Me too.”

If that’s how you respond, you probably aren’t burned out.

If you can sleep it off over the weekend and feel fine again, you’re not going through burnout.

If you’re inexplicably exhausted and lethargic for weeks and months on end without any end in sight, that’s how you know you’re pushed it a little too hard.

So, when people say, “burnout is B.S. – just sleep it off”, I don’t think they know what they’re talking about.

Burnout is real. It can happen to anyone. You can push yourself too hard to the point where your body just can’t handle it anymore. And, it can take several months for you to recover. Some people even continue to push themselves to the point where they end up with a major illness or worse.

So, burnout is not B.S. It’s real.

Burnout is not B.S. It’s real.Share on X

So, how exactly did I cope with burnout and what did I do to solve the problem?

When you’re burnt out, the last thing you want to do is eat or exercise.

But what you eat does make a big difference, so you want to make sure you’re eating better. I started drinking more smoothies and celery juice.

And, so far as exercise is concerned, I try to workout at least once per week, if not two or three times per week.

But I also know that you don’t want to push yourself too hard when you’re going through burnout. A good, 20- to 30-minute walk in the sun can be refreshing, but you must be consistent.

I did some walking, but most of the time I just worked out from home, as that’s the easiest solution.

Massage can also be a difference maker. I’ve only gotten one massage recently, but it helped me reset my sleep and helped with my shoulder injury besides.

Meditation is another mechanism I’ve found some value in. Last year, when I was emotionally burnt out, I was adamant about keeping to my meditation schedule, and in time, it started to work.

I haven’t been meditating consistently these days, but I still get some meditation time in.

And, of course, as I mentioned, I saw my naturopath, who is versed in organ adjustments, chiropractic work and cranial sacral therapy. I have found this to be immensely effective.

Of course, you get your homeopathic drops and pills too.

Now, I’m not a healthcare practitioner, so this episode comes with the disclaimer that you should see a professional if you’re wondering if any of what I’ve mentioned here would be beneficial to you.

As for the strategic aspects, I had to determine what I wanted to do with guest posts.

Every day, I get people emailing me wanting to contribute a guest post on my site, and while I appreciate the interest, I was finding that I didn’t have enough time to deal with all of it.

My first instinct was to discontinue guest posts, as I said I would do at the beginning of the year.

But then I started to see an opportunity. So, the next thought that came to me was, “maybe I could hire someone to handle this aspect of my business.”

And, that’s exactly what I did, and we now have a guest post manager who handles all inbound inquiries.

After that, I felt a huge sense of relief. I felt freer to work on the things I needed to work on.

After all, what should the CEO of a company be focused on? Marketing and sales.

What should the CEO of a company be focused on? Marketing and sales.Share on X

If the work I’m doing isn’t tied into marketing or sales, then it should be handled by someone else.

If you get that, your music entrepreneurship career is going to take off like nobody’s business.

So, to summarize, burnout isn’t B.S. And, when you’re going through burnout, it’s unlikely that you will be effective on an individual level.

And, if you want to keep the ball rolling in your career or business, the key point is to identify the opportunity. Is there an aspect of your career or business that’s already profitable? If so, should you be the one handling all the work? Could you systemize that aspect of your business and have someone else handle it?

This is something I talk more about in my book, The Essential Guide to Creative Entrepreneurship: Making and Selling Your Neon Yellow Tiger, so if this has got your attention, I would recommend checking it out on Amazon.

At the core of what I’m talking about is transforming your career or business.

Our mission at The Music Entrepreneur HQ is to turn starving artists into empowered entrepreneurs who can achieving their desired level of success.

Are you tired of starving, releasing music that no one listens to, playing shows that no one comes to, making less money than you’re worth?

Then you’re in the right place at the right time. And, the time to transform your career is now.

So, if you’re ready to gain access to tools and resources that will make a difference in your career, I would encourage you to go to davidandrewwiebe.com/join to join our mailing list. I look forward to sharing with you on the inside.

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You may have heard me reference my “forthcoming EP” a few times and wondered when it was coming out.

Well, in this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I offer a sneak preview into the No Escape EP, which will be hitting online music stores and streaming platforms any day. Enjoy.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – My latest solo release

01:43 – No Escape

03:52 – Sleepless Blues

05:16 – Don’t Wait Too Long

06:43 – Hope

08:08 – Grace Is Bittersweet

09:24 – Keep an eye open for the No Escape EP

Transcription:

Any day now, my latest solo release, No Escape will become available on all online music stores and streaming platforms.

But because I wanted to do something special for you, I put together a sneak preview for the EP right here on the show.

As a listener of The New Music Industry Podcast, you’ve shown that you’re looking to take your music career or business beyond and that you’re willing to invest in yourself.

Although it’s been said many times by many people, it’s worth saying again – there are few things as important as your willingness to invest in yourself.

Most people will go through life investing in their education to get a job. But if you’re a listener of this podcast, it’s clear you’re looking to live a different kind of life. You want to live your passion and not be constrained by anything.

You’re special. That’s why I wanted to give you a sneak preview of my forthcoming EP, No Escape.

Now, usually the term “sneak preview” is reserved for an early viewing of a movie.

There are no music videos yet, and I have not filmed a movie in connection with the EP. So, this is a sneak peek into the music, what prompted me to write and record the songs I did and how they came together.

The first track on the EP is the title track, “No Escape”.

I wrote this song in fall 2017, which is hard to believe.

In the months leading up to writing “No Escape”, I noticed that my life was synchronizing with my best friend’s, sometimes in subtle ways and sometimes in more overt ways.

For example, we would sometimes wake up at the same time or make meals at the same time.

But our emotions and physical circumstances would also sync up. So, if one was feeling restless, it was common that the other would be feeling restless. If one was feeling exhausted and having trouble sleeping, so it would be for the other.

So, while “No Escape” was written about my best friend, the truth is that I was going through the same things she was.

The song is about restlessness and escapism. It’s human nature to avoid problems and difficulties instead of leaning into them.

And, sometimes we feel the need to escape. At times, that can manifest in relatively innocuous daily activities – going shopping, eating out, traveling, visiting the gym more frequently and so on.

But it can also show up as more harmful and destructive behavior – compulsive gambling, drinking, partying, bringing harm to yourself and others and so on.

An entrepreneur, of course, learns to lean into the challenges instead of trying to avoid or escape them. That’s what leads to personal expansion in the areas of leadership, resilience and problem solving.

Anyway, there’s something someone who’s experienced a lot of life intuitively knows. No matter where they go, they take themselves with them.

That means there truly is no escape from your problems unless you’re willing to dig for the core issue. Outside of that, there’s only temporary relief.

That’s the backdrop against which “No Escape” was written.

The next track, “Sleepless Blues”, predates “No Escape” by many years. I believe I first wrote it in 2007 or 2008.

2008 is when I fell in love for the first time. Of course, I’d had crushes up that point, but I’d never felt how I felt about someone up until that year.

When my heart was broken, I wrote a series of songs to begin the healing process.

I think “Sleepless Blues” was written prior to that time but I was thinking about including it on the same album, to be titled Back on Solid Ground.

That album, unfortunately, didn’t come to be in that space and time.

But I had worked on a couple of demos with my producer-engineer Patrick Zelinski a few years later, and “Sleepless Blues” happened to be one of them.

Originally, I was going to record three songs with him last year, but Patrick managed to dig up the demos we had been working on, including “Sleepless Blues” and “Grace Is Bittersweet”, which resulted in their inclusion on this five-track EP.

Up next is “Don’t Wait Too Long”.

Musically inspired by They Might Be Giants' “Man, It’s So Loud in Here”, I wrote the music for “Don’t Wait Too Long” around 2012.

Lyrically, I knew what I wanted to do with the chorus but hadn’t written the verse yet.

I dug up the music in 2016 and decided to put the finishing touches on this track. I released it as a single the same year.

This version of “Don’t Wait Too Long” is distinct in that it features more organic instruments.

The song is about the vacuum of depression and the resulting downward spiral.

It’s not autobiographical, at least not in the sense that I was the one who was depressed when I was writing it.

Prior to selling my home in 2012, I was living with a roommate who was going through difficult times and clearly wasn’t happy with his life. I was remembering him as I was writing the verses.

The song is certainly open to interpretation, but how it shows up for me is that if you don’t believe there are good things coming for you, you have no hope, and if you have no hope, you begin questioning your existence.

The next song, “Hope”, like “Don’t Wait Too Long”, was also released as a single in 2016.

This version, again, features more organic instrumentation than the original.

I’ve already said quite a bit about the song publicly, but in case you’re wondering what it’s about, it’s not about hope at all. It’s about being in limbo.

I once heard that hell is living the same experiences over and over without any change. Sometimes, that’s how life feels.

So, from the perspective of the song, the writer is seeking answers. He’s saying even though he believes good things can happen, he never sees any evidence of them happening. And, he just keeps waiting.

In that sense, this could even be a song about bad luck, if there is such a thing.

Does this song reflect my life experiences? At times, it has.

I now have a broader perspective on who I am and why I am the way I am and that allows me to step outside of my autopilot way of being.

But if that weren’t the case, I’m not certain there would be any hope.

The final track on the EP is “Grace Is Bittersweet”, a song that I started recording with Patrick in 2013 or 2014. It was written when I was still living in my old house.

I tend not to write folky tunes, so I think this is the closest I’ve ever come to that.

The song is about being human, making mistakes repeatedly and bowing down at the feet of the divine, asking for forgiveness.

But when you know it’s in your nature to keep doing the same things you’ve always done, when you know you’re going to be making more of the same mistakes, grace doesn’t feel liberating at all. It feels like a constraint.

The writer doesn’t have the answers. He’s merely living the life he was given.

What I like most about this song is what Patrick was able to do with it. He added keyboards and bass, which made the song far more engaging throughout.

So, keep an eye open for the release of No Escape, which should be coming soon to your favorite online music store or streaming platform. The physical release will be soon to follow.

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How do you handle challenging situations? What do you do when your life seems to be going sideways?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I share my reflections from a recent heartbreak.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Heartbreak

01:32 – Turning to a mentor for help

02:35 – The stories we tell ourselves

02:59 – Have you ever considered that it’s not your fault?

03:53 – The trap of “more, better, different”

05:01 – Parable of the Mexican fisherman and American investment banker

06:35 – Living your dream life

07:12 – How to create breakthroughs

Transcription:

In my life, I recently encountered what we commonly refer to as “heartbreak”.

I’ve discovered from my training that heartbreak isn’t real. It’s just how certain situations show up to us in life. What sustains the emotional response is what we tell ourselves about the situation and what we make it mean.

But that doesn’t mean I didn’t encounter a wide range of emotions after a conversation one fateful night.

At first, I felt shocked and heartbroken. I was in pain.

Because I started sharing what I was going through with friends and my extended support group, I turned that around in about half a day.

At that point, the situation was showing up as clarity, freedom, energy in my world.

But only two days later, it was showing up as responsibility.

If only I had read between the lines. If only I had shared my inauthenticity sooner. If only I had spoken up earlier. If only I had been more forthright with my feelings.

I was beating myself up. My mind was foggy, and my emotions clogged.

I was stuck, so again, I turned to sharing, and this time, I called up one of my mentors.

Having explained the situation, my mentor said, “there’s one thing I haven’t heard you say yet, which is that it’s not your fault.”

My mentor continued to reinforce this idea that it wasn’t my fault. And, he shared with me that I am who I am, and that I’m meant to live that out. He also shared that the right person would embrace who I am and even be drawn to it.

We tend to change our behavior around those we care deeply about. We adapt to create a version of ourselves that we think others will accept, without even knowing if that makes us more acceptable. We make up stories about what we think others would find more interesting, more attractive, more valuable, and so on.

That’s not the person others were drawn to in the first place.

So, I got to try on that what I’d experienced was not my fault.

Suddenly, the situation in question was showing up in my world as peace and light excitement.

Of course, I will allow myself to feel whatever I feel over the coming days, weeks or even months.

There is nothing wrong about what any of us we feel.

The problem is the stories we construct around that, which are sometimes subversive but usually detrimental.

I’m not worthy of love.

I’m not attractive.

I’m not valuable.

Those types of thoughts can circulate in our minds, and we accept them as normal.

But then we carry them into future relationships and situations, oftentimes without any sense of awareness. That’s where things get tricky.

Have you ever considered that it’s not your fault?

Have you considered that you are who you are, and that’s who you’re meant to be, that there’s nothing wrong with you?

So, why do I share this with you?

It’s not as though this episode is going to give my site a ton of SEO value, drive traffic, generate book sales or otherwise.

First, I wanted to share this with you because if you’ve listened to all the episodes to this point, you’ve heard me talk about the different types of summer as well as boundaries.

Even my friend, Christopher Sutton of Musical U could tell I was going through something when I published those episodes. I wasn’t explicit in sharing details on the podcast, but he told me he could tell something was up.

What I’m sharing with you today is the impact of what I went through and the choices I made. So, it relates to the episodes just mentioned.

Second, I’m sharing because I want you to look at who you are and what you’re up to in life.

So often, we are in pursuit of something we don’t have.

And, when what we’re doing doesn’t work, and we don’t reach our goals, we try to do more of it, do it better or do it differently.

Have you ever noticed how more, better, different only offers incremental progress or change?

But we keep repeating that cycle of more, better, different. And, I admit that there have been some podcast episodes in the past that focused on more, better, different.

But what my mentor was showing me was that maybe we can shine just as we are. Perhaps we would be better served coming from a place of self-acceptance. Not trying to be someone else. Not trying to be more, better, different. Just shining as we are.

We don’t choose people, projects, jobs or businesses in a vacuum. It’s coming from somewhere, nature, nurture or otherwise. It’s coming from the people we regularly interact with and the media we choose to consume.

And, our choices can solicit criticism from others.

Why are you doing what you’re doing? Couldn’t you do it this way? Why not expand?

When you begin engaging in a project you care about, you start to see that other people have all kinds of other plans for you.

What comes to mind for me is the parable of the Mexican fisherman and investment banker. If you’ve read any personal development books before, you may have come across it.

The essence of the story is this:

An American investment banker was vacationing in a small coastal town in Mexico when he noticed a fisherman in a small boat. He noticed that the fisherman had been successful in catching several large, fresh fish.

So, the banker asked how long it took for the fisherman to catch the fish, and he said it only took him a little while.

The banker then asked him why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish.

The fisherman responded that he’d caught enough to support his family and immediate needs.

The banker asked what he did with the rest of his time.

The fisherman shared that he slept late, fished, played with his children, took a siesta with his wife, strolled into the village to sip wine and play guitar with his friends.

Seeing an opportunity, the banker suggested that the fisherman spend more time fishing, buy a bigger boat, upgrade to a fleet of boats, sell his fish directly to a processor or open his own cannery. This would involve moving, of course.

The fisherman asked how long this would take, and the banker responded it would take 15 to 20 years. He explained that the fisherman could then go on to sell his company and make millions.

The fisherman asked what came next.

The banker explained that he could retire, move to a small coastal fishing village where he could sleep late, fish a little, play with his kids, take a siesta with his wife, stroll to the village, sip wine and play guitar with his friends.

The point is this – if you’re already living your dream life, you don’t need to change anything!

Maybe playing the local bar circuit is exactly where you need to be and where you would have the most fun. Maybe releasing the occasional single is down your alley. Perhaps sharing your music with your friends and family is enough.

Who am I to judge or criticize?

There are plenty of people out there who will tell you that you should do it more, better or different.

And, maybe you’re excited about that, and you want to pursue that path. That’s fine too.

But maybe, just maybe, you’re already shining exactly where you are. And, maybe a deep sense of self-acceptance will allow you to be at peace with what you’ve chosen.

In conclusion, there will be more episodes about more, better, different in the future. Let me be 100% clear about that.

But we must recognize this may only bring incremental progress. If you want breakthroughs, it’s about seeing what you don’t see right now. And, that’s not going to come from thinking and reflecting. That’s going to come from action and conversations.

You are not a mistake. There’s nothing wrong with you. When choosing a person, a career, a job, a business or otherwise, choose from the core of your being and be unapologetic about it.

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How effective are you in meeting people and creating meaningful and strategic connections? Do you have contacts that can help you take your music career beyond?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I chat with musician Brian Bob Young, who gave this podcast’s music a makeover.

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Podcast Highlights:

01:11 – Who is Brian Bob Young?

04:16 – Being specific about your goals

04:45 – Reading and writing books

08:38 – Being focused in networking and music production

09:34 – How to cold call or approach strangers

11:37 – The evils of non-sequitur networking and marketing

12:47 – Creating context in conversation and generating opportunities

16:55 – Avoid burning bridges

19:37 – Drama is always created

24:03 – Open mics are a great place to network

27:20 – How Brian wrote the music for The New Music Industry Podcast

33:29 – Music on the podcast

34:14 – Finding a need and filling it

37:03 – Getting your first clients

37:45 – Meeting people (or how David got over his fear of talking to people)

39:35 – Booking gigs

43:22 – How many projects does David have?

48:27 – Begin creatively free

52:16 – It’s not just what you know but who you know

Transcription:

David Andrew Wiebe: Today I'm chatting with musician Brian Bob Young. How are you today? Brian?

Brian Bob Young: Great, David Andrew Wiebe. Thank you so much for having me on, man. It is actually a really cool experience to have a working relationship with you and hear my music be a part of a show that I genuinely enjoy, and then be able to talk about it with you too is pretty cool. So, thanks man.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah, thanks for joining me. I guess my listeners have now been hearing your music for probably a few months at this point, right? I've been using it for many episodes. And of course, your name is mentioned at the end of every episode. We should maybe get a sense of who you are and then recount how it is that you came to do some of this music?

Brian Bob Young: Yeah, I guess so. Just like most of the people that have been on the show, I love music and I’m engaged with it my whole life. That's kind of the given for most of us in this field, right. But I guess, I don't want to be too tangential and like a life story of how I ended up on the production side of things. So, I'll just be specific with how I was able to work with you was that I made goals about a year and a half ago of what kind of work would I want on the production side and what projects could I do that would help me to get there that would also be meaningful projects.

And then, happen by actually a kind of like a lightning bolt moment where I was working a bunch of jobs, and I came across a buddy of mine that I didn't even know he was a film producer. He knew that I was starting to reel on the production side and more of the creativity side of the music stuff, which will put a pin in that that I worked on the business side for a long time before doing this. He had a film script and was like, “Hey, do you think you could try your hand on scoring this independent film?” And in the human mode, I was so excited because I love this guy. He's worked on some of my favorite movies actually. He worked on the movie… He was a part of Whiplash. That kind of fell through a little bit for him but I just know that he had worked on projects that I would be really excited about. But at the time, I was not equipped at all to execute doing a film score. I had no idea what would go into that. Neither the resources nor the skill to execute.

So, I learned that pretty quickly and talked to him about it. He said, “Dude, that's fine.” But it really got the wheels in motion of like, okay, if another script or something ends up in my lap, I want to be prepared because you've heard the quote, “Luck is where preparation and opportunity meet.” right? Yeah. So, that's kind of what got the wheels in motion.

One of the first ideas I had was like, why not try to help out podcasts that I like and see if they want their music updated or a little bit more catered to the show and all that. And your show, of course, is one of the shows that I enjoy and reached out to see if you want some updated music that kind of had its own little different sounds. So, that is a little bit of the story of how I specifically ended up on doing the production for your show.

David Andrew Wiebe: That's great. I like what you said about specificity, which is something that Matt Star was very adamant on when he came on the show and talked about that too. So, being really intentional and clear about your goals.

Brian Bob Young: And that's so hard for me man. It is drudgery for me to be specific and not be idealistic in my head in the clouds. It is hard for me but when I do it, obviously, it's fruitful. There's something there.

David Andrew Wiebe: I'm at the same boat for sure. And the thing that I kept talking about this year and continue to talk about this year is publishing 10 to 12 books. I think I'm set up fairly well to do that. And even if I don't reach that goal, if I end up with five or eight books, I think I can still say, “Okay. If I want to do 10 the following year, I can at least make that adjustment.”

Brian Bob Young: Two things there. Not to go on tangents with it but I know listening to your show that you're like a voracious reader. You read a book a week last year. Is that true?

David Andrew Wiebe:  I did that in 2015 and 2016. Yeah.

Brian Bob Young: That's insane. I love to read too but I just got done this book called Educated by Tara Westover. Have you heard of that?

David Andrew Wiebe:  I haven't.

Brian Bob Young: It's a memoir of her gnarly story of growing up in an oppressive Mormon household off the grid and how she ended up studying at Cambridge and educating herself and becoming this wonderful speaker and author.

So, I tore through that book in like a week but I'm reading the Subtle Art of Not Giving an F right now and I've been on a month, which is like half the size. So, you know, if I'm passionate about it I can get through it but if not, I'm going to take my time. But I know that you were doing that because it's kind of like the CEO thing, right, of like CEOs read a book a week and now they're like awesome.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah, no, it's exactly right. I was inspired by that for sure. But another thing that happened was, I think, I want to say its Triple A accountants, it actually might be Double A Accountants. I'm going to look that up real quick but it's it was Shas Nawaz. Shahzad Nawaz is the managing director. It's Double A Accountants. I interviewed him once. It was for a different podcast. I was doing pre-interviews to kind of get the guests answers and coax out cool tidbits from them before they actually went on the show and did the real interview.

Brian Bob Young: Gotcha.

David Andrew Wiebe: But he sat there. Some people you create a relationship with. He sat there and talked with me for I don't know, 10, 20, 30 minutes after the show. I was asking him because he just seemed like really competent with marketing.

Brian Bob Young: Oh, cool.

David Andrew Wiebe: And then he told me, “Oh, well, the reason I know how to do this is because I read a book a week.”

Brian Bob Young: Good. I am always reading. I never stopped reading.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah. He recommended me some Dan Kennedy material, which at the time I was not into but I am actually really into it now, which is funny.

Brian Bob Young: Right. I assume you've read like the Seth Godin stuff and all that. Yeah.

David Andrew Wiebe: Oh, yeah.

Brian Bob Young: Yes. That's like, if you haven't, it's like get out of entrepreneurship. It's like the Bible of entrepreneurs. But anyways, yeah, that's it. That's enough. I'm reading everything I could go off on. I love reading but that's really cool that you're able to do that.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah. And getting back to what she said too, yeah, I think for a long time I was not terribly specific. It still can be a bad habit of mine at times. But what happened through much experience and reading and learning and growing was there were some people that were just not worth working with. You begin to learn that through experience, you know, kind of the warning signs, “Is this going to work out?” Or is this really going to be just a total disaster that they're going to be constantly calling me, which I don't accept calls from clients to begin with. Except on a completely scheduled basis. Are they going to be a huge bother? That's just going to suck up my time and I'm not going to make any money on that.

Brian Bob Young: Yeah. Well, I hear you on the specificity can be kind of like… or probably like an umbrella to our entire conversation because you talked about one. We talked about networking and some of the music production creativity side. All of it has been slowly learning how to be focused for me, because I am naturally just not a focused individual. And whenever I would read or experience any sort of opportunity, I realized that it's because people were able to focus and achieve what they wanted to achieve and just sit down, put their head down, work hard, but also be really passionate about it. So, maybe that can kind of transition a little bit into the networking side. Because I feel like that's been my experience with networking is because I've achieved at least some level of being focused there and not just like, walking around Nashville trying you're trying to run into a bigwig.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that I noticed is when you talk to me, it wasn't like you were talking to a complete stranger. Like you didn't know anything about me. You were actually asking very specific questions. I find that something that people don't do well. I'll probably go off on a rant about non-sequiturs in a

Ariel Hyatt is in the house!

Are you looking to get more publicity for your music or band? Do you wish a major media outlet would cover your story?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, we learn from the best. Ariel Hyatt of Cyber PR sheds light on the current state of publicity in the music industry as well as what she’s excited about creating.

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Podcast Highlights:

01:30 – What brought you to this point of helping musicians and music related brands?

03:51 – Dyslexia

04:50 – How long did it take for you and your company to get established in your space?

08:39 – Creative projects are closed loops

09:41 – The dangers of comparison

12:29 – How important is publicity for musicians and what is PR?

14:13 – FYRE: The Greatest Party That Never Happened

15:40 – The media will cover you if you have something newsworthy to share

19:11 – The grind

23:05 – How effective are press releases?

25:53 – Copywriting skills

26:57 – Why write books?

35:39 – Is there a project you’re fired up about working on right now?

37:58 – Am I on track? – An assessment of The Music Entrepreneur HQ business

45:35 – Concluding thoughts

Transcription:

David Andrew Wiebe: Today I'm chatting with founder of Cyber PR. Ariel Hyatt. How are you today, Ariel?

Ariel Hyatt: I’m fantastic.

David Andrew Wiebe: Great. Glad we could finally talk and have you on the show. Now, I've been blogging about the music industry since 2007. But in 2012, I invested in music industry startup and ended up creating a position for myself as a blogger and digital marketer for the company. And that's when I started taking it more seriously. And in those days, it was people like you and Derek Severs, and Tom Hess, and Andrew Dover, that provided me with a lot of inspiration. So, thank you for being one of the giants whose shoulders, I could stand on.

Ariel Hyatt: My pleasure. Those are all names that just brought me so much warm and fuzzy. That was amazing.

David Andrew Wiebe: Oh, I know. I mean, Derek Severs I'm sure is many people's favourite human being. He's just smart and knowledgeable. What an incredible guy. Can't really say enough about him.

So, you have a tremendous amount of experience in marketing and PR. What brought you to this point of helping musicians and music-related brands?

Ariel Hyatt: I guess the real honest answer is my mother who is an amazing career coach. That's what she did my whole life and continues to do. She pointed out when I was pretty young that I had a knack for communication. I started really young interning at a PR firm and realised that that was actually true, I did have a knack for communication. Although even though that was my knack, I had a passion for art. That was my interest. And so, I guess my whole career is a combination of the thing that I'm really passionate about, which is art, not only music but I love visual art and all types of art. And then, you know, getting to support artists with what I'm really good at, which is communication and simplifying things, I think is something that as a dyslexic, which is something that I have, you look at the world really differently because everything feels confusing, especially when you're young and you can't read and everybody else can. You don't see the world the way other people see it. You start filtering things in a way to make it easier for yourself to understand. And so, I think part of why I'm good at what I do is, I understand that artists don't see the world, especially the business world, the way that most people do. And so, I've kind of made it my journey. Like, if I could break down the world so that I could understand it when it didn't make sense, I certainly could help other people do that.

David Andrew Wiebe: Wow, that's really cool. And a couple of things by way of comment. When I first got started, or really, after I was born, the first thing I got into was not music but rather art. And so, I did a lot of arts and crafts, and a lot of drawing and painting. That was sort of my first expression of creativity, which later evolved into music and writing. But I think it's so common that people in this space also have a huge appreciation for other types of art. The other thing was what you said about dyslexia. I had a backing singer in my group who is also dyslexic, without revealing too many details, but it was just one of many things she seemed to be afflicted by and struggling with at times. But you know, she's still a great singer, which is why I work with her.

Ariel Hyatt: Yeah, it's a lot of people that have dyslexia have an excellent year. Most a lot of really famous artists like Carly Simon, James Taylor, they're dyslexic. They have this like, perfect pitch. And it's like, “Well, why is that?” Well, it's because they can't read so it comes out in other ways.

David Andrew Wiebe: Right. It's almost like you're just compensating for what doesn't come to you naturally, right? And then instead, using your ear or using your other senses to really fine tune what it is you're doing. So, I could see that. They would be better pitch than probably most amateurs.

I'm not sure who originally came up with this but in the entrepreneurial space, we often say everything takes five years. So, how long did it take for you and your company to get established in your space? What was your experience like along the way?

Ariel Hyatt: I had a really interesting and very cool thing happen. So, I guess if we counted the painful journey from getting out of university and getting into the music industry, where you realise that you're just young and one of many, many people trying to get your foot in the door, if we counted that as year one, I think this is actually going to make a lot of sense. Let's see.

So, my journey was struggled a lot trying to find work. I found some really small unpaid internships. And then, parlayed those into a job at a small record label. Worked at the record label for a year. So, that would be two years out of school. And then the third year, I worked. I got a job at a concert promotions company. I worked there for probably about two years, year and a half, two years. And then, I started my own business.

I had some luck in that I was living in a small town at the time, I was living in Boulder, Colorado, which is a place that at the time, I mean, the music scene is rich there, but the music industry is not. There was not a lot of people. There was like two record labels, and you know, a couple of music venues. That was it. So, there wasn't a lot happening in the town. It was very easy to get known pretty quickly. That was a huge benefit.

So, I was working at the only record label there, one of the only concert promoters there. And then when I started my own business, very early on, I got a very amazing gig, which was I became the PR director for the Fox Theatre, which is this fabulous music venue that's still there. And so, I would say that, in a way, my curve was a little shorter because I had this incredible venue. But you know, I don't have that story where all of a sudden, I was working with one band that had a meteoric rise. I've had much more of a slow burn in my career, which has been interesting. And a lot of major label record industry types have said to me over and over, “Well, you really just need a big star to attach your name to.” which is one way that you can look at success. And there are many people that have that. They worked with one particular person that is massively huge. That's a great thing to rest your laurels on. I don't have that same experience. Although I have worked with a lot of people, some very famous, many are not. That's not how I viewed my career.

Let's see. I started my business in ’96. ’97, ’98, ’99, 2000, 2001. Five years as an entrepreneur, I was, you know, I was in a groove. I would say I was in a groove. I didn't write my first book until 2007 though. So, you know, it's been a journey just like you. It's been… Although I was blogging. I don't feel like there was. I guess when I look back, 2020 hindsight everything, isn't it, I can see that there was like a really… there was a time where things were really accelerating. But I didn't realise it until much later in the game.

David Andrew Wiebe: It's very relatable. I love that. I think I heard somewhere recently that creative projects are almost always like closed loops. Whereas we think, you know, if we were to look at a bar graph, it just continually goes up over time. But that's not always the case when you're in the creative industry. It's like you take on one project and you complete it. And then, you start a new project. And the process looks much the same as the last.

Ariel Hyatt: Yeah. And especially in our industry. And I think this goes for artists as well as people that are supporting artists in any way. It there's no white-hot moment. I mean, there are once in a while these crazy outliers like Maggie Rogers, where Burrell heard her song, and then now she's playing Coachella. And it's a year later. I mean, you see that and you're like, “Oh, wow.” But that's really not how it happens for most mere mortals, as we know. It's always astounding when I do see an artist like that, it's a Marvel to look at but it's not realistic.

David Andrew Wiebe: I've been in this seminar since January where every participant starts a community project, which has been really cool. But the other temptation there is to compare your project and how it's taking off to other people's projects, because inevitably there's a few peoples whose project is just exploding. You might still be sitting here with 27 likes on your Facebook page or something like that, going like, “Huh, I wonder if I'm going about this the wrong way.” But everybody chooses a project that's a reflection of them. And of course, depending on the niche and industry,...

John Oszajca is in the house!

Do you know what funnels are? Are you using them to promote your music? What level of success have your achieved with your marketing funnels?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, you’ll learn about this timely and vital topic from the best of the best – John Oszajca of Music Marketing Manifesto.

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Podcast Highlights:

01:11 – Four record deals!? – John’s story

07:16 – What led to your breakthrough?

16:50 – Trying and failing – finding a winning formula

20:56 – What type of results do musicians achieve with your method?

28:07 – What are the main upsides of using funnels to build an audience?

31:50 – Are there any hiccups or downsides to the method?

35:20 – What’s the biggest challenge you’ve encountered as an entrepreneur?

38:15 – What’s the biggest victory you’ve experienced as an entrepreneur?

43:47 – Are there any books or other resources that have helped you on your journey?

47:29 – Is there anything else I should have asked?

Transcription:

David Andrew Wiebe: Today, I'm chatting with the creator of Music Marketing Manifesto and singer/songwriter John Oszajca. How are you today, John?

John Oszajca: I'm great. Thanks for having me on your show.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah, thanks so much for coming on. And on that note, I know that in the space of music marketing, we can sometimes become precious about our ideas and methods but always find it such a joy to talk and share with experts like you. I always learn a lot. The more I dig into this niche, the more I find that there's probably only a few dozen of us or maybe a hundred of us out there doing this kind of thing.

So, I want to thank you for your willingness to come on the show, and also for the important work you're doing for artists.

John Oszajca: Thanks. Yeah, my pleasure.

David Andrew Wiebe: So, I've done a bit of reading about you. One of the things I found interesting is that you had four different record deals, none of which really benefited you in the way you hoped it would.

John Oszajca: I did.

David Andrew Wiebe: So, what happened there?

John Oszajca: Well. Yeah, so I can't say none of them benefited me financially, you know, particularly the first deal was very successful. That set much of my life in motion. So, I don't regret any of the experiences but certainly, when you're a young, aspiring musician, and we all dream of getting record deals, the idea is not just that you're going to fill your bank account, it's that you're going to go on to have a meaningful career and become a household name.

So, cut me off if I go into too much detail, but the sort of short version is that, you know, like a lot of young musicians... I'm from Hawaii. I left my small town and moved to [unclear 02:01]. I went to Seattle first, later to Los Angeles in pursuit of success as an artist. I eventually, after a lot of hard work, a lot of, you know, I really hustled. I was one of those guys that really worked my butt off. I promoted clubs and pursued every opportunity I could to find success. I eventually did land a record deal after many demo deals and a lot of struggles. I signed with Interscope. The trade paper said it was the largest new artists signing in history. It looked very good for a moment.

I had one of those deals where I was on a soundtrack and my song became the single for that soundtrack. It started taking off all over the United States. That song did. And I had no record deal but was getting heavy rotation on the biggest stations in the country. That's what sort of kicked by this big bidding war. But there was no album and by the time the album actually got finished, and by the time... I had Jimmy Iovine as my A&R rep, you know, the Head of Interscope, which sounded fantastic, but all it actually turned out to mean is that I had the busiest guy at the label as my A&R rep. And so, there was a lot of confusion. Music changed a lot at this time. This is back in like 2000 when there was that shift from alternative to sort of active rock, if you remember that. This is like when the No Doubt, Bex, and Sugar Rays of the world were supplanted by that Metallica, Korn, and Limp Biscuits. And so, by the time my album came out, it didn't really fit in the alternative world so it got ultimately put out on pop and hot AC. So, my album came out the same week as Madonna and 98 degrees. It was nothing like that music.

I don't know. I had a few things stacked against me but at the end of the day, you know, I had a fantastic experience. I toured and had song/music on the radio across the country and was on MTV and all that kind of stuff, but I just didn't sell enough records. With no conversation about it, it was dropped. You just kind of get a letter to your lawyer. When some board makes a decision, or some, you know, not literally a board, but some... what's their committee that makes a decision. And was sort of back at the drawing board. I had a weird thing that's sort of a double-edged sword. I had this blessing of this massive publishing deal as well, where we're talking about a half a million dollars per album. The first one is even a bit more, but I was half a million on the second album but I needed the album to come out on a major label in order to trigger the advance. So, rather than just going back to doing what I did before I got that deal and going back to hustling, I was more of one of these... I don't know what you'd call it, but you know, I was... Not a studio musician but I was living in this industry bubble just trying to get another deal. So, years passed, frankly, I did eventually. I got a deal with Universal. That triggered half the advance as it got closer to release. Some shifts around there. They decided not to put it out. Then, I got a deal with a Warner Brothers sub called the Record Collection. They put it out as a one off, and that triggered the publishing but they did very little to promote it. And then a third album came out... sorry, a fourth deal, third album came out on an indie and it just sort of seemed to go worse and worse and worse, to be honest. But yeah, I wouldn't categorize it as a regretful experience. As I say, I still feel quite good about the things, the accomplishments that I had during that time.

And you know, the albums did come out and I toured to support them and you know, had a blast. But yeah, it didn't... The people that promised they were going to do a lot of things on my behalf, in the end didn't do a lot of those things. I kept being, you know. At one point I was more or less put myself on a hiatus as I turned to try to figure out ways to make money without having to get a traditional job. I don't want to keep riffing and rambling on into the story. But that was chapter one. That was basically the sum total of those initial record deal experiences.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah. And I'm sure there will be some benefit to any record deal, even if it's just a lesson that you learn along the way, which it sounds like you did. I'm just wondering, like, obviously, your music did not belong with new metal but was there any advantage to being placed with pop?

John Oszajca: No, not for me. I don't think so. No. I don't think I really ever stood much of a chance in that genre. We really needed to come out when I had that initial radio success before the album was done. It was right for that moment and we missed the moment, I think. But I don't even know that that was necessarily it. I think anyone at the label at the time would tell you there was just a lot of confusion surrounding the album. Nobody was really shepherding the project, and I think that was probably my biggest downfall on that first album.

David Andrew Wiebe: Seems like a common story with many of my favorite artists. I know that They Might Be Giants went through a similar thing where the label they were working with knew what they were about and how to market them. And then suddenly they were working with people that didn't know. They went independent from there. So, I can definitely understand where you're coming from.

And I'm really interested in hearing about, you know, this is what led to the creation of Music Marketing Manifesto. I'm kind of fast forwarding but I'm wondering what sort of researching and digging you were doing at the time that ultimately led to that breakthrough.

John Oszajca: Well, so where it actually started, and I always sort of neglect to mention this when talking about it is in the album number three that came out on indie, which basically meant I did everything to try to market it. And I knew nothing about marketing at this time. I want to say and actually I have to check the back of the album. I want to say this is 2005-ish, 2006 maybe. I don't know. But if you remember... I don't know how old you are but in the days of Myspace...

David Andrew Wiebe: I remember MySpace.

John Oszajca: Yeah. We all jumped on Myspace and bought these bots and spam the hell out of everyone saying, you know, "Click on this link." and send them to iTunes or CD Baby or wherever and hope that they'd buy our music because it was all we knew how to do. I did it too and the bots would always break because Myspace would change the way their sites work so the bots couldn't do what they did. And we'd all jump in or many of us anyway would jump in the support forums and start asking questions. I'd see all these other people in the forums that were using these bots to do other things to clearly make money online. It had nothing to do with music. And that was what first kind of made me go, "What's this? What's this make money online thing all about?" I did not jump into buying Myspace bots and spamming the world to try to make money but I started reading.

John Oszajca: Actually, one day some flashy red headline was selling some internet marketing course promising to teach me how to make millio

Not sure how to get started in your music career? Looking for guidance on how to set up an online presence that will support your goals and dreams?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I share about the forthcoming Digital Marketing Essentials for Musicians webinar.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:43 – Late or missed podcast episodes

01:31 – Your Music Matters community project

02:07 – How a project evolves through conversation

03:38 – What the Digital Marketing Essentials for Musicians webinar is about

05:11 – Register now!

Transcription:

Today, I’m going to interrupt the regularly scheduled program to share a little bit about my forthcoming webinar with you. It will be taking place on Wednesday, May 15.

Before I get to that, though, I just want to acknowledge that lately there have been times when I’ve published the podcast late, and some weeks I didn’t publish at all.

This is not because I have a shortage of content to share with you. It’s quite the opposite.

I recently recorded some incredible interviews with some of my music marketing heroes, and honestly, I can’t wait to share those with you.

I still have content from the first ever Headquarters Show as well as from Your Music Matters Live to share with you too.

If I’ve been late or missed a week, it’s because of everything I’ve been up to.

But gradually, I’ve been freeing up my time with the help of freelancers, and I’m also getting into a productive routine.

So, I just wanted to let you know what was going on because I didn’t want to leave you hanging. Honestly, I hate missing a week, but you’ve all been patient with me, so thank you.

Now, onto the free webinar, which is stemming from my community project.

If you listened to an earlier episode about Your Music Matters, then you already know what the project is about.

At its core, it’s about equipping and empowering musicians with marketing knowledge to help them make a living from their passion.

I started this project in January and I’m looking to fulfill powerfully on the intentions of the project and the commitment I made to it by May 16.

This doesn’t mean that I won’t continue working on Your Music Matters afterwards. But I started this project as part of a seminar I’ve been taking, and that seminar is coming to an end next week.

What’s so interesting about a project like this is that as you get into conversation about it, you see it shift and morph before your eyes, which is exactly what happened.

Thanks to everyone who was willing to get into conversation about it, even if it was just to answer a few quick questions. There are many who helped along the way, and I can’t get to everyone right now, but for now I’d like to thank:

Brent Vaartstra, Christopher Sutton, Ariel Hyatt, James Moore and Keith A. Link.

Anyway, I had some important realizations along the way as result of the conversations I was getting into.

The original scope of the project was considerable. Over time, I came to see and understand that I could cut down significantly on time commitments by looking at the project differently.

Originally, I wanted to book an event at a community center or something along those lines. I realized I could simplify quite a bit by doing something online instead.

After all, I was doing weekly Facebook Lives for Your Music Matters, so to me it made sense to complete this phase of the project by going live with a webinar.

At the outset, I also wanted to develop a marketing curriculum from scratch. I quickly realized that was unnecessary because there is already a lot of great content out there. I started thinking about talking to various course developers and licensing their content instead.

Well, that’s what I hope to do in the future at least. I didn’t get that far into the project because I haven’t found a leader to can take that on.

For the webinar, I’ll be the one putting together the content and presenting it.

So,

Full-time musician. Doesn’t that term have a great ring to it? Wouldn’t you love to pursue your passion full-time?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I chat with UK based musician Malcolm “Bubba” McCarthy and ask him how he rose through the ranks to become an established and in-demand musician.

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Podcast Highlights:

01:01 – Who is Malcom “Bubba” McCarthy?

02:48 – The deficiencies of traditional education

05:57 – Side hustles

06:50 – Playing well vs. social media marketing

08:10 – Revenue streams and taming the tiger

09:12 – Establishing yourself as a quality musician in UK

12:23 – What sort of gear are you using?

16:42 – Getting repeat gigs

19:05 – Being versatile in the music industry

20:32 – How important are music sales for you?

22:24 – The duality of being prolific and perfectionism

24:20 – Michael Jackson and Thriller

25:15 – Are there any books or resources that have helped you on your journey?

27:28 – Building relationships in the industry

Transcription:

David Andrew Wiebe: Today I'm chatting with UK-based musician, producer, and songwriter, Malcolm “Bubba” McCarthy. How are you Bubba?

Malcolm McCarthy: Hello! I'm good. It's four o'clock in the afternoon and we actually have some sun here in England. So, that’s good. I'm happy.

David Andrew Wiebe: That's great. It's like about -1° Celsius here in Calgary, which is not too bad for this time of year. I think it should warm up a little more through today. I've had the chance to read up a little bit about you and your bio and everything but I think first things first, I'm sure for my listeners, they would love for you to share your story and how you got to this point in being a full time musician.

Malcolm McCarthy: Hmm. Well, long road, I would say. But really interesting road. I actually went to university to study history. I was going to become a lawyer. I was going to become a lawyer. I finished my degree in law school, and I just decided I want to take a year out and go to music college, me in front of people and just you know, enjoy music for a year before I went off to law school again. But then, actually, in that year, I was like, “Oh man, I need to give this a shot.” I started meeting a ton of people who then started hire me for the gigs for a little cost and so… Actually, you know what? Let me put all the law stuff on hold and go for it.

So, in that time, you know, I didn't get a ton of gigs, probably the first year. So, I did a bit of peripatetic teaching. I taught piano at secondary school or high school as you guys would call it. That helped me go and help me afloat until I got tour that cometh that came in that would be a bit more sort of consistent. And so, I think that's when I was like, “Okay. Let's go for this full time.” And yeah, I’ve been doing it for the last, I guess, six or seven years. That's been a fun, testing, exciting, you know, all the above. It was pretty cool.

David Andrew Wiebe: You know, something that I'm regularly on about is this whole thing about school. No doubt, I'm sure it had some benefit in your journey, but there's also some fairly apparent, I think deficiencies in school. I'm wondering if it equips you and left you with all the tools you needed to succeed in music or if you found that there was a lot more that you actually need the skills you needed to pick up or experiences you needed to have to become a full time musician.

Malcolm McCarthy: Yeah. I think I agree mostly with you on that point. I'm not 100% sure, like the necessity of going to school. I think the main thing for me that was able to… Two things. I was able to pull out my technique. So, I played the keys and I played the drums, but when I went to music college, it was the drums that I specialised in. So, I was able to fill out my technique, which was horrific. That actually was something that I needed to fill up. But I guess you know, if you had a private tutor or whatever, that could be sorted out.

And the other thing was, I was able to meet a ton of people. I think that really was, for me anyway, that was super important. Coming from the schools in London, I had been in London for three years coming back just to have an immediate network of people to kind of know and who would give me gigs that I think that was one of the biggest things about going to college. But there's a ton of other things you can do. You know, with jam nights, you can go out and meet people. You know, there's other ways.

David Andrew Wiebe: Absolutely. You know, it's the same thing I've heard from other musicians as well, like school helps you work on your technique and you also get to meet a ton of people so you got like an established base of basic contacts that you can tap into for gigs and opportunity and all that. You need that foundation no matter what. Obviously, it still kind of leaves you not knowing things like how to manage your money because most people actually don't know how to do that. Or like social media marketing or any of that kind of stuff.

Malcolm McCarthy: It's so crazy. Now I think back to it. I'm like, why do you school? Like I remember when I had to do my first year of taxes? I had no idea so I was asking fellow musician, who got a few years of taxes and asked, “Well, what does this mean? How do I do this? What can be claimed as expenses?” It's just I still don't get why schools don't really invest in that. I guess it's the less glamorous side of being a musician, so maybe they didn't want to invest as much into it. But yeah, I mean, it's silly really.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah, I think schools or vast majority of them are sort of based on a 200-year old system of pumping out factory workers. It's changed a little bit through the years to be fair, but for the most part that's what they're trying to create is, you know, employees who are submissive and will do their job. The thing is things are changing, right? The culture is changing. We're kind of in the gig economy now, and a lot of people have side hustles.

Malcolm McCarthy: Yeah, side hustles. And what I realised when I came out is there are actually a lot of different alternatives in the music industry to see. Like, I knew nothing about, you know, writing for adverts. That wasn't really, when I was at school, I was only there for a year. It wasn't really something I thought about. It’s all about being a session musician, you know, doing big gigs and things like that. So, there's loads of different alternatives as well than have to just stick to a thing that is seen on Instagram, you know, drummers on big stages with endorsements and all that sort of stuff.

David Andrew Wiebe: Oh, yeah. Like I have friends who are sort of crying about this whole thing of one-minute videos on Instagram and that's the new thing in the music industry. You can't capture people's attention for longer than one minutes. So, they’re like sore about this. I said, “Well, if you're on Instagram, I guess.” but I've not really… I don't participate in the social media world overly much and I'm not too concerned about it, I realized the importance of a following because I'm also an offer but, you know.

Malcolm McCarthy: Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, first and foremost, just playing well, you know. I'm friends with actually this guy. He's a fixer for a lot of the TV stuff that I do. And, you know, a lot of people hit him up and, you know, “Hey, man, have you got any gigs going? Here's my resume. Check it out. Here's my Instagram, check it out.” And he always goes back to the root of that if I want to hear you play, I want to hear you play live. I want to actually… even invite me on the gig and invite me to play so I can play with you and see how you sound and you know. That's an interesting aspect as well.

David Andrew Wiebe: Absolutely. Definitely. I think that's what people ultimately want if they're going to consider hiring you. And to your point earlier about there being many income streams in music like I have people constantly coming to me wanting to guest post or advertise on my website or get their links on my website and I swear to you the communication some days is just like I'm trying to tame the tiger as it were, because these people expect me to be on call and have a ton of questions and messages and come back to me later wanting to change their content and all this kind of stuff. I'm just trying to set this tone that like I charge for everything, guys. So, unless you’re going to pay me, it's not going to happen.

Malcolm McCarthy: Right, right, right. Yeah. I get that. I get that.

David Andrew Wiebe: I've had to tame that Tiger because there's so many people coming to me for this. But it's you know, it's an opportunity. It's not a pain. Yeah.

Malcolm McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great man. It is exciting because things are going up.

David Andrew Wiebe: Exactly. Yeah, it's just a sign of success in a way. Now, you can certainly correct me if I'm wrong in saying this, but it occurs to me that some of the best rock bands have come out of UK, which tells me there's a pretty high standard for musicians, right? But you have people saying stuff like you're one of the best out there. So, what did it take for you to rise to that level?

Malcolm McCarthy: Oh. I mean, first of all, it’s always quite humbling if people say that about an individual, if they say that about me. It’s something I'm not at all really, but it's nice. It's a nice feeling because I know there'll be a lot of guys out there that have put in hours and hours and hours, trying to perfect their craft. For me, it's doing scales and in playing for click and all these sorts of things. So, there's definitely been… I feel like years of investment both on my craft but also interesting things like gear, you know, for me getting the right keyboards, the right synthesisers, or the right unit for my kit,...

What does it mean to be a musician in the digital age? How can you take advantage of popular platforms to get your music heard by more people?

In this episode of The New Music Industry, I talk to Michael Sloane, Co-Founder of Streaming Promotions. We get into everything from opportunities artists are missing all the way to how we’re all information marketers.

Download the PDF Transcription

Podcast Highlights;

00:42 – What is your background?

07:16 – Creative pursuits are weird

08:02 – What opportunities are musicians missing in streaming?

10:40 – Music distribution is not an issue anymore

11:19 – Opportunities that can come from music streaming

12:33 – How does Streaming Promotions help artists get their music heard by more people?

16:36 – Inbox overload

19:33 – Who is Streaming Promotions for?

21:02 – You can still reach your career goals

22:30 – Everything is about the story

23:27 – What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve experienced to this point?

25:04 – What have been your greatest victories to this point?

26:43 – Are there any books or resources that have helped you on your journey?

27:52 – We’re all information marketers

30:36 – 90-day goals

31:08 – Conduit to growth

Transcription:

David Andrew Wiebe: Today I'm chatting with CEO of Streaming Promotions, Michael Sloane. How are you today, Michael?

Michael Sloane: Doing great. How are you?

David Andrew Wiebe: I'm good. Thanks. Thank you for asking. I would love for you to talk a little bit about your background in digital strategy, in e-commerce optimization. What did you learn from your work and how has that influenced your direction since?

Michael Sloane: Oh, that's a good question. I really started my pursuit of the music industry in 1996. I came to Belmont University, initially, with the thoughts of being perhaps an artist, which was thwarted very quickly. And then decided it would be maybe a better use of my talents to work on the business side. I really thought I was going to get an A&R in the publishing side of things. Got freaked out, left Nashville, got a degree in finance from the University of Kentucky, worked in banking as a loan analyst for three years prior to coming back and getting my MBA at Belmont and getting some jobs in publishing only to get fired.

And then, I realized that I was better, more on the technology side, which fortunately for me, is really where the industry has gone. First job was with a company called Echo Music, which was an early web development and fan club company back when the only portal to an artist was really their website. We grew to six when we ended. Got acquired by Ticketmaster. That wasn't a very good fit personality wise for the team. Like the executive the executive team there didn't really jive too well with corporate leadership so I got a job over at Live Nation which have just launched Live Nation Artists Group and 360 deals. Got to work with some pretty notable artists there. Kenny Chesney, Zac Brown band, Cheech and Chong, the Gaither vocal band. I mean on the roster we also had AC DC and the stones and some other really large artists but in that 360 deal was really able to see the ins and outs of the workings of the industry and how things were changing and monetization of you know, real core artists or real core fans there. What's a dedicated fan willing to spend on a Rolling Stones coffee table book if they know there's only 500 of them? That kind of thing.

Still got to see the ticketing side of things as well. Ticketmaster and Live Nation merged. And all those companies went away. I started my own firm called Strategic Blend in 2000. I guess that was 2009. And just began to experiment in social media, which was kind of new at the time or for a while we were actually optimizing Myspace pages, but still building websites. And then just figuring out how best to market to fans digitally there for about three years and then sold my interest to my business partner when I got an opportunity to go work with a little artist named Taylor Swift. And so, I joined her digital team and really ran all digital projects. A lot of the eCommerce pieces there were trying to integrate with Amazon, very early days of you know, get direct to fan shipments there. Really build her in entire eCommerce presence on Amazon retail space. And it went really well.

From that, I flipped over to the to the label side, to Big Machine label group. They had obviously Taylor but also Florida, Georgia was breaking at the time, Thomas Rhett. They had Tim McGraw and let's see, Rascal Flatts, are some other large artists. We had 13 artists when I started and 36 when I departed. I really departed over my vision of where consumption services were going. 1989 had been released by Taylor and the CEO of the label. Pulled all of her music off of the streaming services in an attempt to sell more records. That worked perfectly. He also pulled the music off of the streaming services for Brantley Gilbert and Justin Moore, who I thought both needed exposures. So, I'm not sure if you're familiar with either of those artists, but I thought they still needed to be able to be seen and discovered by fans that were new to those artists.

I thought that Spotify was the future of the industry as far as the way artists will ultimately distribute their music but also get paid from those master recordings, and really just kind of pulled a suicide by cop. "You're wrong." "No, you're wrong." "Okay, cool. You're fired." "I know. I'm packing my stuff." So, I was able to, you know, kind of parlay that into some conversations with Spotify. I think they appreciated my bravado. I was able to have some conversations with them early when Ken Parks was still running Spotify North America. Steve's a vocalist there. He kind of run all artists, I guess artists services, or I guess he's the head of music technically.

We learned kind of the ins and outs of how things were working. Streaming Promotions for the longest time was really more of a side hustle for me. I was managing some artists and still doing digital strategy with other artists and some in some brands. But I met a guy named Charles Alexander who had not only found a way into the Spotify curated playlist, but also found ways into these user generated playlists that had some traction on the platform and was working in managing a couple of artists.

I said, "Maybe we can do this for a lot of people. I think there's definitely a need there." And really just worked with him to help start to build out what now is Streaming Promotions. Charles left in August, about at that time, and since then, we've really focused in. I guess for about the last year and a half on this user generated playlist, you know, how we're best trying to trigger the algorithms of discover weekly, release radar, daily moods. Spotify, as mentioned, they're going to release as many as another 200 to 250 algorithmic lists this year. We're just trying to position ourselves as best we can to take advantage of these algorithms but also the playlist on the platform that that are created by users that have lots of traction and can help us really trigger the mathematical equations that they get our clients in front of an audience. That's a long way to go to tell you how I got here but all that stuff. It's been a crazy 15 years.

David Andrew Wiebe: No kidding. No, thank you for sharing that. I think there's quite a bit of relatability to what you said. Like, I started my life mainly interested in visual art. That transitioned into music. And then eventually, I found my passion in business and writing, which is kind of where I'm at now, but they sort of overlapped in a way and I'm still in music, but I do so little visual art at this point. I don't have a lot of time for that.

Michael Sloane: Creative pursuits are weird that way. I mean, I went totally left brain for a while and just did the finance thing but I was still going to shows every weekend and trying to find my way onto a stage or somewhere into the hearts of someone that would let me help them out.

David Andrew Wiebe: Yeah, totally. So, I mean, there's so many paths we could go down based on what you just said. But I think this is something that I must cover because it's something that my audiences are surely wondering. There are many musicians out there that wish they could go back to the days of digital downloads because of how little revenue streaming tends to generate for them. So, what opportunities are they missing? What are your thoughts on what's happening in the world of streaming right now?

Michael Sloane: Yeah, I think it's interesting that the industry was so long predicated on the idea that you would, you know, it was a monetary transaction. I gave you 99 cents and I got a download. Or I gave you $15 and I got a record. The mechanicals of all that worked very well because the monetary breakdowns were pretty straightforward. I look at streaming as an annuity, right? Like it's a long-term payout so if you've got a hit, you're set for a long time as opposed to the old days where, if I had a hit, it was purchased. There was a monetary breakdown on the back end that whatever the value of the master recording was and that was it. You really kind of ping that transaction early on as opposed to with streaming and consumption, you're able to do it for a long tail.

I teach a class at Belmont. I often say like, "If you told me that I could buy the Beatles catalogue for $250 million 10 years ago, I would have told you to go fly kite, but if you told me I could buy it for a billion dollars today, I'd probably do it." Because it's going to be you know, month over month that those streams are going to happen.

Transaction, again, it is predicated on having a hit. But if you have that hit, and you have an audience and you have somebody that's got to go back to those tracks time and time and