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In this episode, Ron and Kristin sit down with Greg Forest, former U.S. Marshal, former Chief U.S. Probation Officer, and now co-founder of Davis Forest Investigations. Greg shares a rare inside look at federal fugitive operations, the realities of high-risk leadership, and what it’s really like transitioning from government service to entrepreneurship.

Key Topics Covered

1. Greg’s Path Through Federal Service

• How he entered law enforcement
• What led him to become a U.S. Marshal
• The moment he realized public service was his calling

2. Inside the U.S. Marshals Service

• What the Marshals actually do beyond fugitive work
• High-risk operations and the leadership skills required
• Balancing urgency, danger, and officer safety
• The challenge of serving in both a law-enforcement and political role

3. Marshal Service vs. U.S. Probation & Pretrial

• Cultural differences between the agencies
• Where their missions overlap
• How leadership styles shift between enforcement and rehabilitation roles

4. Life After the Badge

• Greg’s transition into private-sector entrepreneurship
• Launching Davis Forest Investigations
• What TV gets wrong about private investigators

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

Ron and Kristin expose how manipulation operates in everyday workplaces — from charm tactics to control games — and how leaders can spot the warning signs.

Highlights:

• The Dark Triad at work: narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy.
• How confidence can blur into control.
• Creating psychological safety to shut down manipulation.
• The power of self-awareness — knowing your own shadow.

Dirty Lesson:
The most dangerous manipulator isn’t in the boardroom — it’s the one in your blind spot.

4Ward Reflection:
Leadership isn’t about avoiding darkness; it’s about mastering awareness — in others and yourself.

Sources:

• Paulhus & Williams (2002), Journal of Research in Personality — The Dark Triad.
• Harvard Business Review (2018), The Toxic Handler: Organizational Hero — and Casualty.
• Amy Edmondson, The Fearless Organization (2019) — Psychological Safety in the Workplace.

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this episode, Ron and Kristin expose one of leadership’s oldest power games — loyalty and betrayal. From ancient betrayals like Judas and Caesar to modern corporate sabotage, they reveal how leaders can spot a hidden opportunist before it’s too late. This episode blends psychology, real-world examples, and neuroscience to explain why betrayal usually comes from inside the circle — and how to test loyalty without breeding paranoia.

“Betrayal doesn’t just reveal the traitor — it reveals you.” — Ron Ward

Segment 1 — The Psychology of Loyalty 

• Loyalty = Shared Risk. People stand beside success, not struggle.
• The three archetypes of loyalty:
• The Loyalist — values mission and leader
• The Opportunist — values self and proximity to power
• The Pretender — performs loyalty to gain access
• Nearly 70% of workplace betrayals come from high-trust relationships (source: Harvard Business Review, “The Hidden Costs of Betrayal,” 2020).
• Betrayal requires access — if they don’t know your playbook, they can’t weaponize it.
• Jealousy = Loyalty’s Silent Assassin. Rooted in Social Comparison Theory (Festinger, 1954).
• Corporate Example — Kohl’s CEO Loyalty Swap (2023):
  A modern corporate betrayal case where a CEO allegedly redirected contracts for personal connections.
• Source: [Wall Street Journal, 2023 — “Kohl’s Board Ousts CEO Following Ethics Concerns”]

Segment 2 — A Modern-Day Judas:

• Story of Evan and Marcus: the rise, the manipulation, and the quiet betrayal.
• Psych Insight: People believe negative info 2.5x faster than positive info (source: Fessler & Holbrook, Evolution and Human Behavior, 2014).
• “Betrayal rarely starts with lies — it starts with believable half-truths."
• “Pretend to protect you while auditioning to replace you.”
• The real test: your response. Leaders can get bitter or get better.

Segment 3 — How to Test Loyalty Without Losing Trust:

• Three Field Tests for Leaders:
• Truth over Flattery — Loyal people tell you what you need to hear.
• Absent Defense Test — Watch how they speak when you’re not in the room.
• Crisis Character Check — Adversity exposes priorities.

Closing:
“Leadership will always test loyalty — and loyalty will always test leadership.”

“Your job isn’t to eliminate betrayal — you can’t. Your job is to build a culture where disloyalty feels uncomfortable and loyalty feels rewarded.”

Sources & References:
Festinger, L. (1954). A Theory of Social Comparison Processes. Human Relations.

Fessler, D. M. T., & Holbrook, C. (2014). Negativity Bias and the Speed of Belief. Evolution and Human Behavior.

Harvard Business Review. (2020). The Hidden Costs of Betrayal: Why We Trust the Wrong People at Work.

Wall Street Journal (2023). Kohl’s Board Ousts CEO Following Ethics Concerns.

Anderson, C., & Brion, S. (2014). Perspectives on Power: How People Gain, Maintain, and Lose Influence. Current Opinion in Psychology.

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this throwback episode, we're going back to episode 7 where Ron and Kristin discuss qualities of great leaders and how you can apply them to your own life.

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com 

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this episode of The Dirty Side of Leadership, hosts Kristin Sokoloff and Ron Ward explore the tumultuous journey of John Alite — from organized crime enforcer to redemptive leader — and draw powerful parallels between the psychology of crime-leadership and mainstream organizational, corporate, and faith-based leadership.

Key Themes:

• The structure and raw mechanisms of power in the mafia world.
• The psychology of fear, loyalty, respect, and followership under extreme conditions.
• The transformational arc: what happens when control and power are stripped away, and what emerges when responsibility takes over.
• Modern leadership lessons: how to spot toxic leaders, how to build genuine loyalty, and how character beats title in influence.

Guest’s Recommended Book:

• Check out John Alite’s memoir/co-authored work:
• Mafia International: Gotti Enforcer for the Gambino Crime Family by John Alite & Lou Romano – link: HorizonBooks listing 
• Also available via other retailers (Goodreads listing for reference) 

Upcoming Media Appearance:

• John Alite is also featured in a Netflix-production: according to his official website, he appears in Get Gotti on Netflix. 
• Note: As of now, we haven’t found a fully detailed Netflix press-release or confirmed date beyond the listing. You may want to check Netflix’s upcoming true-crime schedule for final details.

Who This Episode Is For:

• Executives, team-leaders, pastors, parents and anybody who wants to understand power, influence and transformation at a deeper level.
• Anyone curious about how high-stakes loyalty and dominance translate into everyday leadership frameworks.
• True-crime enthusiasts who also seek redemption and leadership insights.

Key Takeaways:

• Hierarchy isn’t just titles: In the mafia world, Alfred-style titles don’t always equate to real control — influence, fear, loyalty and tribe matter more.
• Fear vs Respect: John Alite points out fear works — but respect lasts. Understanding which one you build as a leader changes everything.
• Follower psychology matters: What drives someone to stay loyal — identity, belonging, fear, hope? How does that translate into teams?
• Redemption = leadership shift: Losing formal power (as Alite did in prison) can be the catalyst for the deepest form of leadership: character-based service.
• Modern warning signs: The same behavioural red flags Alite saw in crime leadership (micromanagement, insecurity masquerading as control) show up in corporate and institutional contexts.

Next Steps / Listener Actions:

• Grab John Alite’s book (link above) and reflect on what leadership lessons apply to your role.
• Jot down at least one behaviour in your team/organization that maps to fear-based leadership vs respect-based leadership.
• If you’re a leader (in any arena), ask yourself: “Am I leading by power over others or by responsibility for others?”
• Stay tuned for the Netflix appearance — we’ll update when a full release date is confirmed.

Special Guest: John Alite — former associate of the Gambino crime family, turned motivational speaker, author and now public servant. 

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperatio

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In Part Two of Leadership & Parenting, Ron and Kristin welcome Troy Robison, a faith-centered leader, husband, and father who serves as Head of Sales at AI Vector, the parent company of today’s sponsor, Kovo Home. Together, they explore how leadership and technology intersect in modern parenting.

From setting healthy digital boundaries to navigating online influences, Troy offers an inside look at how innovative tools can help parents guide, protect, and empower their children. The discussion blends science, psychology, and practical leadership wisdom — focusing on how connection, consistency, and courage build resilient families in a digital world.

Key Takeaways:

• Technology can be a powerful ally in protecting and preparing children when paired with intentional parenting.
• Leadership at home mirrors leadership at work — clarity, boundaries, and empathy matter most.
• Digital safety isn’t fear-based; it’s value-based — teach kids why, not just what.
• Modeling online integrity builds digital citizenship and character.
• Parents who stay curious stay connected.

Closing Thought:
Parenting remains the most important leadership role you’ll ever have. It’s not about perfection — it’s about presence. Whether leading a team or a family, remember: be the leader you’re meant to be.

Special Guest: Troy Robison, Head of Sales at AI Vector

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Sponsored by: Kovo Home — empowering parents with elegant, effective AI technology that enforces healthy digital boundaries, prevents grooming and cyberattacks, and supports children’s growth from safety to self-actualization. Learn more at kovohome.com.

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this episode of The Dirty Side of Leadership, Ron and Kristin explore how leadership begins at home. From building trust through daily connection to guiding kids toward strength, kindness, and resilience, this episode reframes parenting as the ultimate test of leadership.

They share practical, real-world lessons — including how to model integrity, manage friendships, teach emotional literacy, and help kids fail safely. Ron and Kristin unpack how empathy, consistency, and boundaries shape the next generation of confident, emotionally intelligent leaders.

Key Takeaways:

• Parenting is leadership on the front lines — it’s about presence, not perfection.
• Consistency beats intensity every time.
• Be curious, not controlling — connection is built through small, daily moments.
• Model before you mentor.
• Set boundaries without building barriers.
• Celebrate effort as much as achievement.

Coming Next Week:

Part Two of Leadership & Parenting features guest Troy Robinson, Head of Sales at AI Vector, discussing how technology can help parents protect their children from online predators while encouraging healthy independence.

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Sponsored by: Kovo Home — empowering parents with elegant, effective AI technology that enforces healthy digital boundaries, prevents grooming and cyberattacks, and supports children’s growth from safety to self-actualization. Learn more at kovohome.com.

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this episode, Kristin and Ron break down two major stories:

• President Trump’s unprecedented call for hundreds of generals and admirals to meet at Quantico.
• The mass exodus of over 100,000 federal employees.

What looks like crisis is really about leadership, accountability, and culture. From the cost of pulling leaders together, to the fallout of raising workplace standards, we explore the dirty side of leadership—where presence matters, accountability filters out the uncommitted, and comfort kills growth.

Sources & References:

• U.S. Department of Defense: General and Flag Officer Ranks
• Federal News Network: Federal Employee Attrition Trends
• Government Accountability Office (GAO): Federal Workforce Studies
• Eisenhower Presidential Library: D-Day Leadership Records

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this episode, Ron and Kristin reflect on the life and leadership of Charlie Kirk, Who was assassinated on September 10, 2025. He was the founder of Turning Point USA (TPUSA). From his Illinois roots to building one of the nation’s most influential youth organizations, Kirk’s journey offers powerful lessons for leaders in any field.

The conversation explores:

• Starting Young: Courage over credentials.
• Movement Building: How TPUSA scaled from an idea to hundreds of staff and millions in revenue.
• Speaking Where People Are: Kirk’s debates and media strategy.
• Conviction Under Fire: Holding values firm in the storm.
• Legacy in Motion: Institutions, networks, and influence that outlive the leader.

Kristin and Ron share practical takeaways you can apply right away—launching your own 90-day proof of concept, documenting systems, and meeting your audience where they are.

Sources:

• The Washington Post, AP News, ABC News, Wikipedia, Fox News, AAUP, The Singju Post

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Send us a text

In this episode, we sit down with John Whitt, a chess champion, business strategist, and author of Checkmate!: Translating Ideas Into Money. With over four decades of experience guiding organizations—ranging from large corporations to small businesses—John brings a unique perspective on strategy, clarity, and transformation.

John reveals how the game of chess can be used as a powerful metaphor for leadership and business growth. From anticipating your opponent’s moves to knowing when to sacrifice a piece for the bigger win, he shows leaders how to turn ideas into tangible results.

Key Takeaways:

• Chess & Leadership: How the discipline of chess teaches strategic patience, foresight, and decisive action in leadership.
• Translating Ideas Into Money: Why execution—not just creativity—determines success.
• The Winning Strategy: Practical ways leaders can set up the “board” for their team’s success.
• Clarity & Generosity: Why transparent leadership and giving credit to others unlock stronger results.
• 2025 & Beyond: What today’s leaders must learn from both chess and business to stay competitive.

About John Whitt:
John Whitt is a celebrated chess champion, seasoned business strategist, and the author of Checkmate!: Translating Ideas Into Money. Known for connecting the dots between strategy and execution, John helps leaders simplify complexity, outmaneuver challenges, and build businesses that thrive.

Purchase checkmate:
Checkmate!: Winning Tactics for Translating Ideas into Money
https://a.co/d/csnPSOB

Why You Should Listen:
If you’ve ever struggled with decision-making under pressure, or wondered how to outthink your competition, this episode offers concrete lessons from one of the most strategic games ever created. You’ll leave with insights that will change the way you approach both leadership and life.

Connect With Us:
Podcast Tagline: Where leadership meets entertainment.
Follow The Dirty Side of Leadership on all major podcast platforms.
Join the conversation in our Facebook community—managed by Cassie Roop.

Co-hosts: Ron Ward and Kristin Sokoloff
Sponsor: 4Ward Operations
Producer: Stephen Ridley
Facebook Group Administrator: Cassy Roop

Where leadership meets entertainment! This weekly podcast takes both a humorous and intense look at leadership through impactful stories, answers to listener questions, and breakdowns of dirty lessons from Ron's best selling book, "The Dirty Side of Leadership".

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com

Connect with us at 4wardoperations.com