In this honest and unfiltered conversation, we sit down with Stephen Swebb—a pastor, church leader, and former Elevation staffer—for a deep dive into the complicated layers of church culture. We talk about what happens when church becomes more about appearance than authenticity, how over-religious behavior can damage real faith, and why knowing when to walk away might be the most spiritual move you make.Stephen shares lessons from his time inside big church systems, what quitting well looks like, and how he’s rethinking ministry, leadership, and life. If you've ever felt disillusioned with church or wondered if it's okay to question how we "do ministry," this episode is for you.