Welcome to The Emic, the podcast where anthropologists share a moment from their fieldwork in which they truly took on an emic perspective – seeing the world from the point of view of the people they study.

In this episode, you'll hear from anthropologist and archaeologist Jason De León. De León is a professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, director of the Cotsen Institute of Archaeology, and the founder of the Undocumented Migration Project, a multidisciplinary research collective that investigates clandestine migration between Latin America and the United States using ethnographic, archaeological, and forensic methods. His influential book The Land of Open Graves: Living and Dying on the Migrant Trail has shaped public debates on border policy and migrant rights, and in 2017 he was awarded a MacArthur Fellowship for this work.

The story you're about to hear centers on a moment in De León's fieldwork when he suddenly realized he had far more in common with smugglers than he had ever imagined. It's an uneasy but illuminating recognition — and exactly the kind of shift in perspective that The Emic is all about.

This conversation was recorded by Roanne during a meeting with Jason De León at the American Anthropological Association's annual conference in New Orleans. You may occasionally hear background sounds: doors opening, the murmur of busy corridors, and anthropologists chatting as they pass by. Consider it part of the scene — a live reflection captured in the middle of anthropology's biggest gathering. However, most of the sounds you hear in this podcast are the actual recordings that Jason made during his fieldwork. This means that you hear, what he heard, back then.

More on Jason: Jason De León - UCLA Department of Anthropology

More on his most recent book Soldiers and Kings, which won the National Bookaward for nonfiction 2024: https://www.jasonpatrickdeleon.com/

If you want to receive additional photos from the field, personal drawings and behind-the-screens information accompanying the episodes of The Emic, subscribe to Roanne's free monthly email: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com/the-emic

In the autumn of 1971, when he just turned 23 years old, Tim was living in a tiny wooden cabin on the shores of lake Rautaperajärvi, in the far northeastern corner of Finnish Lapland. He was a few months into his doctoral fieldwork with the Skolt Sámi people. The Skolts had been resettled in this remote area following the loss of their homeland to the then Soviet Union in the aftermath of the Second World War. Tim's plan had been to study the micropolitics of their situation as a minority within a minority, but he quickly discovered that for the people themselves, this took second place to the much more pressing concerns with how to get by, from one day to the next, within an unpromising environment. And nothing bothered people more, he found, than an issue around reindeer pastures. This is where the real politics lay.

Tim Ingold is a British social anthropologist, currently Chair of Social Anthropology at the University of Aberdeen. He was educated at Leighton Park School and Cambridge University. He is a fellow of the British Academy and of the Royal Society of Edinburgh. His bibliography includes: The Perception of the Environment (2000), Lines (2007), Being Alive (2011), Making (2013) The Life of Lines (2015), Anthropology and/as Education (2017), Anthropology: Why it Matters (2018) and Correspondences (2021).

If you want to receive additional photos from the field, personal drawings and behind-the-screens information accompanying the episodes of The Emic, subscribe to Roanne's free monthly email: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com/the-emic

When Gego (that's what Muhammad is called by his friends) conducted his PhD-fieldwork in Indonesia, he entered multiple new worlds: the world of anthropology, a region with nature so pristine he did not know it existed, and the world of deep water diving. Only problem: he did not know how to dive. When he entered the water, he was touched by underwater beauty, but confronted with his biggest fears. In this episode, he shares the story of how he overcame his initial panic, and how his fieldwork under water changed him forever.

Gego is a lecturer at Hasanuddin University, in the Faculty of Social and Political Sciences, Department of International Relations. Currently, he is in his fifth year of PhD at the University of Amsterdam, and his study is supported by the LPDP Scholarship from the government of Indonesia. His PhD research focuses on the complexities of the interplay between tourism and conservation in Wakatobi, Indonesia.

If you want to receive additional photos from the field, personal drawings and behind-the-screens information accompanying the episodes of The Emic, subscribe to Roanne's free monthly email: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com/the-emic

In this episode, Giovanna talks about a moment in her fieldwork that she returns to often. A quiet moment shared with women that would become her sisters. A moment where something shifted for her.

Giovanna Parmigiani is an anthropologist of religion and magic, a scholar of Contemporary Paganisms, the co-chair of the Contemporary Pagan Studies Unit at the American Academy of Religion, and a founding co-convenor of the Network for the Anthropology of History at the European Association of Social Anthropologists. Her work is firmly grounded in ethnographic and auto-ethnographic practices, and her main focus of interest is the relationship between religion, politics, and gender.

Her first monograph, Feminism, Violence and Representation in Modern Italy: We Are Witnesses, Not Victims (Indiana University Press, 2019) dealt with violence against women. Her second, The Spider Dance: Tradition, Time, and Healing in Southern Italy (Equinox Publishing, 2024), deals with contemporary pagan women and healing. She writes about conspirituality and conspiracy theories and has a forthcoming book on this topic, Lived Conspirituality: Researching Conspiracy Theories and Alternative Spiritualities (Routledge).

Parmigiani is the host of the Gnoseologies series at the CSWR. At HDS, she teaches courses on contemporary paganisms; earth-based religions; New Age spiritualities; the anthropology of magic, religion, and healing; and religion, materiality, and the senses.

If you want to receive additional photos from the field, personal drawings and behind-the-screens information accompanying the episodes of The Emic, subscribe to Roanne's free monthly email: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com/the-emic

While conducting fieldwork in Bangladesh, renowned anthropologist and historian Willem van Schendel found himself at a dinner invitation. Initially a cozy evening, time seemed to stretch on forever until the food was finally served. But little did he know, his perception of time was about to be turned upside down. Tune in to this episode of The Emic to hear Willem's remarkable, or in his words 'embarrassing' story and find out what it's really like to have a 'long' dinner in a completely different cultural context. Find Professor Willem van Schendels' publications here: https://uva.academia.edu/WillemVanSchendel If you want to receive additional photos from the field, personal drawings and behind-the-screens information accompanying the episodes of The Emic, subscribe to Roanne's free monthly email: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com/the-emic

When Rahil was invited by her Iranian interlocutors to a religious gathering for women, she dressed to the occasion - or so she thought. But then she learned something important. A beautiful episode about high heels, gossip, and our prejudices.

Rahil Roodsaz is an assistant professor at the anthropology department of the University of Amsterdam. She studies gender and sexuality, particularly focusing on feminist, queer, and decolonial viewpoints. In 2023, she was awarded an NWO-Vidi grant for the project Rhythms of Love, which aims to explore how people in midlife (age 35-60) maintain long-term romantic relationships during life transitions. It seeks to understand the complexities of enduring love in the face of societal challenges like work stress, parenting, and societal pressures.

In this episode of The Emic, Roanne shares her experiences as a young anthropologist conducting fieldwork in Greenland, where she lived among Inuit hunters and fishers while studying the impacts of climate change.

Whilst living among these families, she had the opportunity to witness parents interacting with their children. The parenting styles in the community initially led her to be critical. A wise lesson from an elder, which she didn't fully grasp at the time, emphasized that the most important task of a parent is to make their child laugh. This insight resonated later when she heard a child psychologist discuss the significance of a strong emotional bond between parents and children.

Now, as a mother of a toddler herself, Roanne reflects on these lessons, highlighting the importance of connection and joy in her parenting journey.

For more information about Roanne: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com Her Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/roannevanvoorst/ If you want to receive additional photos from the field, personal drawings and behind-the-screens information accompanying the episodes of The Emic, subscribe to Roanne's free monthly email: www.anthropologyofthefuture.com/the-emic

Sometimes, the places in which we live appear to be exotic, if we learn to look at them in a new way. Professor Klaus Hoeyer rediscovered his own country of residence, Denmark, after it had become world famous for its digital governance and digital healthcare. But why did everyone in the country disagree on whether digitization was a positive, or negative trend? And why were all the stories about the impact of big data so confusing?

Klaus Hoeyer is professor of medical science and technology studies at the Centre for Medical STS (MeST) and the Department of Public Health, University of Copenhagen. He has his background in social anthropology, African Area Studies and medical ethics, and he has worked with, e.g., research biobanking, stem cells, property issues, forensic biobanking, bone and organ transplantation, public-private partnerships, ethics regulation, EU health regulation, data-intensification and public perceptions of genetics, organ transplantation and, most recently, data politics.

Klaus also published a book on this topic "Data Paradoxen: The Politics of Intensified Data Sourcing in Contemporary Healthcare". You can read more about it or order it here.

When the Brazilian educator and anthropologist Beatrice Bonami traveled to the Amazon to study how Indigenous and local peoples perceived the future and technology, including digitization of daily life and privacy issues, she soon realized she would have to adapt her usual working methods: how could she ever conduct research on digital privacy, in a community where people share their houses with everyone? During her workshops, people kept drawing a mystical, anthropomorphic bird - what did thát have to do with technology? She would soon find out.

Beatrice Bonami is a Brazilian author, educator, social researcher, and innovator. She has extensive multi-country experience in a variety of multicultural settings, including government, educational environments, and indigenous territories. Governmental advisor, researcher and teacher, Dr. Bonami is specialist in tech decolonization, digital education, transformation, and ethics in cutting-edge innovation. Holding a Ph.D. in Education Innovation and International Development from the University of São Paulo [Brazil], University College London [United Kingdom], and Universita La Sapienza di Roma [Italy], her expertise is rooted in a global perspective. As a Youth Ambassador with UNESCO representing Latin American countries, she has actively worked with UNDP, UNICEF, and the World Health Organization [WHO]. Currently, Dr. Bonami is a teacher and Senior Researcher [Universität Tübingen], having secured research grants with the German Government and the German Research Foundation. Her ongoing project "Framework for Decolonizing Transformation in Non-Western and Southern Innovation and Technology [TnWiST]," underscores her commitment to advancing non-Western and Southern knowledge and fostering positive change in technology development and appropriation on a global scale.

Anthropologist Tina Harris studies aviation - flying - in countries like Nepal, where landing strips are short and the weather can change quickly from clear skies to dangerous storms. How do pilots and aviation staff navigate safe flights? It's not through the type of high-tech you might expect, discovers Harris. Learn how cows, birds, and old-fashioned cellular phones help travelers safely reach their destination.

Tina Harris is Associate Professor of Anthropology and a member of the Moving Matters research group at the University of Amsterdam. She holds a PhD from the City University of New York Graduate Center, and her research focuses on aviation, infrastructure, cross-border mobility, and the circulation of commodities across borders. She is the author of Geographical Diversions: Tibetan Trade, Global Transactions (University of Georgia Press, 2013), is co-Managing Editor of Roadsides journal, and is one of the main organisers of the Asian Borderlands Research Network.