The Ethically Immoral Podcast

 In Volume Seven: Chapter Fifteen of the podcast, we welcome Seoul, South Korea-based Writer and Author Daeun Jung, whose debut novel, The White Blueberry, was released in July. 

In our conversation, we trace Daeun's creative journey back to a childhood shaped by curiosity, observation, and imagination. She reflects on creating small comic books inspired by the everyday lives of her classmates, her fascination with history and the relationship between individual lives and larger societal stories, and the early instincts that taught her to look closely at people and turn what she observed into stories. 

We also explore the two worlds Daeun currently inhabits as both a writer and medical student, and discover that medicine and literature may not be as different as they first appear. Daeun discusses the attention, listening, and empathy required by both, and how her study of medicine and interest in the human experience have influenced the way she approaches characters and storytelling. 

Our conversation then turns to her debut novel, The White Blueberry, a story centered on Jane and J and the unusual idea of a 100-day breakup. Daeun takes us inside the creation of the novel, including its exploration of depression, the development of Jane and J through experience, emotion, and imagination, and the idea that understanding another person can sometimes require learning to better understand ourselves. We discuss the origins of the 100-day breakup, how Jane and J change over the course of those 100 days, and the emotional questions at the heart of their relationship. 

Daeun also reflects on writing The White Blueberry in English while living in South Korea, connecting with readers internationally, and the process of bringing the novel to Korean readers. We explore how language can shape the expression of emotion and whether something inevitably changes when a story moves between languages. 

Finally, Daeun shares an evolution in her relationship with writing and with herself. Once believing she needed to remain positive and emotionally strong to create meaningful work, she discusses learning to recognize honesty and beauty in broken and vulnerable states as well. We close by exploring how accepting the many shapes emotions can take has changed not only the way she writes, but the compassion she extends to herself.   

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  

Contact Daeun:
Instagram: @pardua_ 

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Andrea Gibson – The Nutritionist
Instagram: @andreagibson 

Asis Samson – As I Am
Instagram: @theasiaproject         Website:: theasiaproject.com 

Danez Smith – Waiting For You To Die So I Can Be Myself
Instagram: @danez_smif        Website: danezsmithpoet.com
   

Lindsay Young – Queerphobic
Instagram: @lindsay.poetry 

Elizabeth Acevedo - Afro-Latina
Instagram: @acevedowrites      Website: acevedowrites.com  

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter Fourteen of the Program, we welcome Milwaukee, Wisconsin-born and based Poet, Author, Community Activist, and the 14th Poet Laureate for the City of Milwaukee, Shelly Conley. A seven-time member of Milwaukee’s National Poetry Slam Team, she serves as Program Director of My Sista’s KeepHer and is the author of Rewind: A Cathartic Autobiography.

In our conversation, we travel through Shelly’s creative history, beginning with journaling at nine years old, her early love of hip-hop, and eventually discovering poetry in middle school. We revisit the year she spent attending Dasha Kelly’s open mic at the old Mecca Nightclub before finally finding the courage to step on stage herself, and how that experience changed her relationship with poetry and taught her the power of sharing our words with others.

We discuss how Shelly has carried that lesson into her work today, from creating a space for emerging writers through The Writers Hive Poetry Open Mic to helping young women explore their emotions, experiences, and voices through My Sista’s KeepHer.

Shelly also opens up about her once-complicated relationship with her mother, the role writing played in their healing, and their decision to tell that story together through their book project, Writing It Together.

Finally, we discuss the journey that led Shelly to becoming Milwaukee’s 14th Poet Laureate, the surprise of learning she had been selected, and an incredible full-circle moment: years after finding the courage to share her poetry at an open mic created by Dasha Kelly, Shelly would eventually succeed her as Poet Laureate.

From a nine-year-old writing privately in a journal to helping others discover the power of their own words, Shelly’s story is one of finding your voice, having the courage to share it, and eventually creating space for others to find theirs.

Contact Shelly:
Instagram: @poeticworkinprogress      Website: shellyconley.com 

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Aleah Bradshaw – Questions
Instagram: @nyfe 

Lyrical Faith – Bilingual
Instagram: @lyricalfaithpoetry 

Jahman Hill– Cash Me Outside
Instagram: @jahman_rondo        Website: jahmanhill.com 

Shelly Conley – 2am Free Write
Instagram: @poeticworkinprogress          Website: shellyconley.com   

Natasha Ria El-Scari – The Secret Society of Black Mothers
Instagram: @natasharia          Website: natasharia.com 

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Thirteen, we welcome Poet, Writer, Editor, Educator, and Author Maya Marshall. She is the Poetry Director and an editor at Haymarket Books, co-founder of underbelly, a journal dedicated to the art and practice of poetic revision, and a MacDowell and Cave Canem fellow. She is the author of All the Blood Involved in Love, winner of the 2025 Holmes National Poetry Prize.

In our conversation, we trace Maya’s creative journey back to a childhood where art, literature, politics, and public service were woven into her everyday life. She reflects on growing up around Austin, Texas's Black Arts Alliance, traveling throughout the state as her mother performed a one-woman play, writing her own “little poems” while waiting in the wings, and giving her first public poetry reading at an anti-Klan rally in Austin when she was seven years old.

We explore the experiences that transformed an early instinct for writing into an intentional study of the craft—from Writers in the Schools and afternoons spent reading poetry in bookstores to her lifelong fascination with books, music, galleries, museums, and language itself. Maya discusses the difference between loving poetry and learning how to write a good poem, why she doesnt romanticize inspiration, and the importance of practice, revision, and eventually learning when to trust a poem enough to let it go.

Our conversation also examines poetry as the constant Maya continued returning to while trying to imagine a practical life as a writer, and her belief that poetry may be the closest thing to faith she has. We discuss the balance between solitude and community throughout her life, reflecting on a remarkable personal practice she began at sixteen—writing herself a letter every birthday documenting what she is proud of and grateful for—and what those letters have revealed about confidence, ambition, and a deepening acceptance of self.

From the little girl surrounded by artists and books to the poet whose own work now sits on shelves alongside writers she once admired, this is a conversation about learning not simply how to write poetry, but how to build a life around it—and what it means to eventually help create that space for others. 

Contact Maya:
Instagram: @maya.marshall.16      Website: mayamarshallpoetry.com

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Ayanna Albertson – What That Mouth Do
Instagram: @untouchableyann

Shanelle Gabriel – Daddy's Girl
Instagram: @shanellegabriel          Website: shanellegabriel.com 

Christopher Diaz – Again
Instagram: @lightbulbchris        Website: christopherdiazcreates.com 

Leah V – 3am
Instagram: @leahvspeaks          Website: leahvspeaks.com         

Ebony Stewart – Single
Instagram: @gullyprincess          Website: ebpoetry.com          

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Twelve of the podcast, we welcome Hong Kong-born, Midland, Ontario-based poet and author Grace. Holding a double BA in English Literature and Psychology from the University of British Columbia, Grace is the author of The Language We Were Never Taught to Speak and her newest collection, Be Water, available now from Anvil Press.

Our conversation traces Grace's creative journey from an avid childhood reader who eagerly returned home from weekly library trips with stacks of novels, to someone who initially found poetry uninspiring and imposed upon her in high school. She reflects on how discovering contemporary poetry, becoming immersed in Vancouver's vibrant literary community, and finding an early champion in the partner who became her first editor transformed poetry from an academic exercise into a deeply personal means of understanding herself and the world around her.

Grace opens up about growing up in a family where emotions were rarely spoken aloud, explaining how poetry became the language through which she could process memories, identity, family history, queerness, culture, and belonging. We explore the surprising evolution of her debut collection, The Language We Were Never Taught to Speak, discussing how individual poems gradually revealed themselves to be part of a larger conversation, how publishing that first book validated her identity as a poet, and how writing it helped release her long-held fixation on the past.

We also discuss finding confidence as a performer within Vancouver's spoken word scene, learning to embrace joy and playfulness in the writing process, and the evolution that led to her newest collection, Be Water. Grace shares how the new book feels less like a return to old wounds and more like a continuation of healing, exploring relationships, identity, and self-understanding from a place of greater compassion and emotional clarity.

It's an honest and thoughtful conversation about creativity, healing, identity, and discovering that sometimes the language we're searching for is the one we learn to write ourselves.

Contact Grace:
Instagram: @thrillandgrace       Website: grace-writes.com 

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Joel Francois – Liars
Instagram: @thedapperdaydreamer 

Fanta Ballo – Broken Hearts
Instagram: @fantaratty

Crystal Valentine – Little Known Fact
Instagram: @crystalvalentine94         Website: iamcrystalvalentine.com 

The Legendary Black Ice – Who Would I Be
Instagram: @thelegendaryblackice         

The Legendary Black Ice – Bigger Than Me
Instagram: @thelegendaryblackice          

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Eleven we welcomed Buffalo, New York-born, Toronto-based Poet, Essayist, Educator, Biographer, and Author Molly Peacock. She earned her BA from Harpur College at Binghamton University and her MA from Johns Hopkins University. She has served as president of the Poetry Society of America, founded The Best Canadian Poetry series after moving to Canada, and her literary papers are housed at the Binghamton University Library. Molly is the author of numerous poetry collections, works of prose, and the memoir Paradise, Piece by Piece. Her latest collection is The Widow's Crayon Box.

In our conversation, we explore the creative foundation shaped by a family where books and writing were woven into everyday life. Molly reflects on her mother's voracious reading habits, her grandmother's lifelong practice of writing alongside the routines of daily life, and the teachers and mentors who encouraged her to think of herself as a writer long before she fully believed it herself.

We also trace her evolution as both an artist and a person, discussing what it meant to become the first in her family to attend college, the confidence she discovered during her years at Johns Hopkins, and how formal poetry became less about following rules than finding a structure capable of holding life's most powerful emotions.

Finally, we explore The Widow's Crayon Box, a collection born from the loss of her husband that reveals the many colors of widowhood rather than the single shade society often imagines. Molly reflects on the first twenty-eight days following his passing, the moment she realized she was beginning what she calls "the turn" into widowhood, and how the poems emerged naturally as a way to process grief, preserve love, and transform profound loss into art. 

Contact Molly:
Instagram: @mollypeacockpoet        Website: mollypeacock.org 

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Arantza Garcia – Recipe Book
Instagram: @arantza.cgf

Ghetto Jedi The Poet – I Am Metaphor

Ayanna Florence – Boy Calls Me Pretty
Instagram: @poetnextdoor          Blog: poetnextdoor.medium.com

Rundy Francisco – My Honesty Poem
Instagram: @rudyfrancisco         Website: iamrudyfransicso.com

Alyesha Wise – Flowers
Instagram: @alyeshawise            Website: alyeshawise.com

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Ten of the Program,  we welcome Poet, Educator, and Author Isabelle Correa for an in-depth and thoughtful conversation about identity, faith, family, healing, and the long, often complicated journey toward becoming a writer.

Born in Moses Lake, Washington, Isabelle reflects on growing up in a household with twelve siblings, navigating feelings of loneliness despite never being alone, and being raised in a religious home where certain paths in life seemed predetermined. She shares how an early engagement, an unexpected change in direction, and a willingness to imagine a different future ultimately led her toward writing.

Our conversation explores her beginnings in creative nonfiction and her eventual discovery that poetry offered something narrative could not. We also discuss reclaiming spirituality outside organized religion, writing through trauma without forcing resolution, and allowing flawed, vulnerable voices to exist honestly on the page.

Along the way, Isabelle talks about the importance of writing communities, and how workshops, mentorship, and organizations like Gather Poets helped shape her development as a writer. We also discuss  her forthcoming collection, Portrait of a Person Who Pushes Love Away in Fear of Losing It and Other Poems, and the winding path that brought her from Washington State to Mexico City.

Contact Isabelle:
Instagram @isabellecorreawrites        Website: isabellecorrea.com 

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

A Glowing Poet – Love, Eventually
Instagram: @aglowingpoet          Website: thewomaniambecoming.com 

Daniel Garwood – Hangman
Instagram: @doowrag.daniel        Website: danielleegarwood.com

Shay The Poet – The First Time I Hated Myself
Instagram: @shay.thepoet 

Matt Capone – Some Love Shit
Instagram: @matt__capone

Yex– Man Vs. Bear
Instagram: @yass_yex

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Nine of the Podcast, we welcomed Clinton, Ontario-born and London, Ontario-based Educator, Writer, Author, and Poet Blair Trewartha. The author of three chapbooks and two full-length poetry collections, including the recently released Half-Earth, Blair joins me for his first appearance on the program to discuss a collection more than a decade in the making.

We begin by celebrating the release of Half-Earth, reflecting on the excitement surrounding its launch, the warm reception it has received, and what it means to finally share a new full-length collection twelve years after his Relit Award-shortlisted debut, Easy Fix. From there, Blair discusses how becoming a father fundamentally reshaped both his life and his writing, explaining how conversations with his two sons unexpectedly became some of the emotional foundations of the new book. Together, we explore how parenthood transformed his understanding of skepticism, compassion, mortality, and the uncertain future his children will inherit in a world shaped by climate anxiety and rapid technological change.

Our conversation then turns back to Blair's creative beginnings. Growing up on a farm outside Clinton, Ontario, he reflects on the rural landscape that continues to influence his imagination and the lasting impact of the nearby Goderich salt mine. He discusses how the stories shared by family members and friends who worked in the mine left a deep impression, leading us into a discussion about the importance of listening, oral storytelling, and the fascination with other people's stories, which evolved into a desire to tell his own through poetry.

Contact Blair:
Instagram @btrewart         Purchase Half-Earth: Here 

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Meccamorphosis – Penny Dreadfuls
Instagram: @meccamorphosis          Website: meccamorphosis.com 

Leah V – Yours
Instagram: @leahvspeaks          Website: leahvspeaks.com 

Mike Rosen – When God Happens
Instagram: @heymikerosen 

Sonya Renee Taylor – My Body Is Not An Apology
Instagram: @sonyareneetaylor 

Steven Willis – The Hustle Speaks
Instagram: @stevenwillispoetry          Website: stevenwillispoetry.com 

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Eight of the Program, we welcome Milwaukee, Wisconsin-born and based Writer, Poet, Storyteller, Author, Performance Poet, Teaching Artist, and Creative Change Agent Dasha Kelly. A former Milwaukee Poet Laureate and Wisconsin's first Black Poet Laureate, Dasha has spent decades building community through the power of story, imagination, and creative expression.

During our conversation, Dasha reflects on her early years as a self-described curious kid, arts-and-crafts enthusiast, and natural storyteller. We discuss the role her mother played in encouraging her creative pursuits, her early interest in fiction writing, and how a fascination with psychology and human behavior ultimately intersected with her lifelong love of storytelling.

Dasha shares her journey into poetry, including her initial resistance to the form before eventually embracing it as a powerful vehicle for exploration and connection. We talk about her creative process, how she determines whether an idea belongs in poetry, fiction, or nonfiction, and the ways those forms often overlap in her work.

We also examine the evolution of Milwaukee's literary community through Dasha's eyes, comparing her reflections from the early 2000s to the thriving creative culture she helped cultivate over the years. She speaks candidly about community building, connection, and the profound impact of bringing together people from different backgrounds through shared artistic experiences.

Contact Dasha:
Website: dashakelly.com          Instagram: @dasha_kelly  

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Porsha O. – Trigger
Instagram: @porshaolayiwola          Website: porshaolayiwola.com 

Barbara Fant – Medicine
Instagram: @iambarbarafant          Website: barbarafant.com

Black Chakra –I Spit Fire
Instagram: @blackchakra88 

Ariana Brown – Supremacy
Instagram: @arianathepoet         Website: arianabrown.com 

Javon Johnson – Shotgun
Instagram: @javonism

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter Seven of the podcast, we welcome Dunnville, Ontario-born and Toronto-based Writer, Author, and Poet Jennifer LoveGrove. Jennifer is the author of four full-length poetry collections and the novel Watch How We Walk, which was long-listed for the Giller Prize. Her poetry collection Beautiful Children with Pet Foxes was long-listed for the Raymond Souster Award, and her newest collection, The Tinder Sonnets, is available now via Bookhug Press. 

In our conversation, we discuss Jennifer's creative history—from childhood creativity and growing up with a typewriter and lamp-chair writing setup, to the lasting influence of religion and the sense of outsiderhood that shaped both her worldview and artistic voice. We discuss her movement between fiction and poetry, whether those creative instincts originate from the same creative space, and the realities of maintaining a writing practice beyond romantic ideas of inspiration. 

Jennifer speaks candidly about discipline, resistance, self-doubt, and the emotional terrain of writing—why first drafts can feel exhausting, what revision gives back, and whether satisfaction comes from the act of writing itself or from seeing something new brought into existence. 

We also spend time discussing The Tinder Sonnets—a collection based on Jennifer’s experiences navigating dating apps and modern relationships in middle age. Our conversation touches on vulnerability, confession, female desire, misogyny in contemporary dating culture, and the expectations society places on women as they age. Jennifer reflects on writing openly about intimacy and emotional complexity, what it means to transform personal experience into poetry, and whether the collection brought clarity, confrontation, or simply another way of living alongside difficult truths

Contact Jennifer:
Purchase The Tinder Sonnets: bookhugpress.ca          Instagram: @jenlg52   

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Prentice Powell – True Love
Instagram: @prenticepowell1906          Website: prenticepowell.com

Asia Samson – Enough
Instagram: @theasiaproject         Website: theasiaproject.com 

Alysia Harris – Death Poem
Instagram: @poppyinthewheat          Website: alysiaharris.com

Kyla Janee Lacey – I Pulled Out A Knife On Him
Instagram: @kylajlacey         Website: thatswritekyla.com 

Emi Mahmoud – Window Games
Instagram: @emibatuta         Website: emi-mahmoud.com 

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter Six of The Program, we welcomed Boston-based Photographer, Poet, Writer, Philosopher, and Visual Artist, Steven Seidenberg. 

We discuss Steven’s newest poetry collection, Coda, his ongoing photographic work, including his exhibition at the John and Geraldine Lilley Museum of Art and the forthcoming photographic project Kanazawa Vacancy. In our conversation, Steven reflects on what it means to see his work displayed publicly and discusses his fascination with photographing empty landscapes, abandoned structures, and unstable environments—images that ask viewers not simply to look, but to reconsider what they’ve been seeing all along. 

We discuss Steven’s early creative and intellectual history. He talks about his youthful attraction to poetry and philosophy, describing a compulsive literary obsession that shaped his identity and ultimately led him to leave high school before finding his academic footing at Simon’s Rock and later Bard College. We discuss the influence of reading on writing, the role philosophical literature played in his development, and how his interest in photography emerged alongside his early writing life, including memories of developing black-and-white photographs in his uncle’s darkroom. 

Our conversation also explores family influences, Steven’s path through philosophy and academia, and his eventual transition away from teaching and copy editing toward a full-time creative life. Along the way, we unpack his remarkably patient artistic process, with projects often taking a decade or more to complete. 

This was a thoughtful and reflective conversation about observation, artistic patience, intellectual curiosity, and the lifelong pursuit of meaning through multiple creative forms. 

Contact Steven:
Website: stevenseidenberg.com          Instagram: @steven.seidenberg   

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include: 

Brittany Barker – The Classroom Before the Revolution
Instagram: @iambrittanybarker 

Joshua Bennett – 16 Bars For Kendrick Lamar
Instagram: @sirjoshuabennett          Website: drjoshuabennett.com

Gina Loring – Freedom To Learn
Instagram: @ginastarlight          Website: ginaloring.com 

Steven Willis – Instead Of A Suicide Note, I Wrote This
Instagram: @stevenwillispoetry          Website: stevenwillispoetry.com

Alexis Green – He Used To Send Me Flowers
Instagram: @poetalexisgreen          Website: poetalexsisgreen.com

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