The Every Podcast

The Every Podcast

By Dan ShipperBusinessTechnology
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The Every Podcast episodes

  • How to Use AI to Become a Learning Machine - Ep. 34 with Simon Eskildsen

    Simon Eskildsen is a learning machine. 


    I first interviewed him in 2020 about how he leveled up from being an intern at Shopify to becoming the company’s director of production engineering by reading and applying insights from hundreds of books.


    A lot has changed over the last four years. Language models have made it possible to access and contextualize information faster, easier, and more cheaply than ever before—and in this episode, Simon and I talk about how this changes the way he learns. 


    Simon is now the cofounder and CEO of AI startup turbopuffer, which is building a search engine that makes vector search—an approach to information retrieval that uses machine learning to gather context—easy and affordable to run at scale.


    We spent an hour talking about how he leverages LLMs’ contextual intelligence to supercharge his learning, such as helping him pick up new words as a non-native English speaker, do odd jobs to maintain his rural cabin in Quebec, and articulate technical concepts in legalese. As we talk, we screenshare through his Anki setup, including the flashcard template he finds most useful, and the custom AI commands he’s created in productivity software Raycast. Simon tells me about the clutch of AI tools he experiments with for journaling, writing, and coding, as well as his thoughts on how language models will fundamentally reshape the way we learn. Here’s a link to the transcript of this episode.  


    This is a must-watch for note-taking aficionados and anyone who wants to supercharge their learning with AI.


    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 


    Want even more?

    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.


    To hear more from Dan Shipper:

    Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 

    Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

    Simon Eskildsen: @Sirupsen

    Simon’s startup, turbopuffer: turberpuffer.com, @turbopuffer

    My first interview with Simon in 2020: https://every.to/superorganizers/how-to-build-a-learning-machine-299655 

    The productivity tool through which Simon uses LLMs, Raycast: https://www.raycast.com/ 

    The other AI tools that Simon is experimenting with: voice-to-text tool superwhisper, copilot for developers Supermaven, code editor Cursor

    1 hr 14 min
  • How to Supercharge Your Writing With AI Tools - Ep. 33 with Evan Armstrong

    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 


    Want even more?

    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.


    To hear more from Dan Shipper:

    Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 

    Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

    Evan Armstrong: @itsurboyevan

    The column Evan writes at Every: Napkin Math

    Evan’s upcoming course about how to write with AI: https://www.writewithai.xyz/ 

    The piece Dan wrote about using LLMs to articulate his taste: "What I Do When I Can’t Sleep"

    Dan’s article about admitting that he wants to be a writer: "Admitting What Is Obvious"

    1 hr 36 min
  • The Browser Company Is Building a Brand That Drives Viral Growth - Ep. 32 with Nashilu Mouen-Makoua

    The Browser Company isn’t just building a browser, they’re building a formidable brand—and they’re doing it with AI. 


    The Browser Company has driven viral user growth, a $550 million valuation, and close to 100,000 YouTube subscribers. Its brand centers people, not products. It’s messy, authentic, and refreshing—and it seeps into everything the team does, from the job descriptions on their website to announcing new features through short films and giving keynote addresses in diners.  


    I sat down with Nashilu Mouen-Makoua, the head of storytelling and a strategic advisor to the CEO at The Browser Company, to talk about how she’s weaving relatable stories around new technology.


    We get into her philosophy around storytelling, including why she believes centering people is the key to building a memorable brand, The Browser Company’s focus on making technology accessible to a wide audience, and the brass tacks of how Nash’s team structures meetings to generate great ideas. Nash also tells me how she’s integrated LLMs into her workflow, to do deep research, get a gut check on a new article she’s written, and put the finishing touches on her words. 


    As Nash explains that the best way to position a product is in response to contemporary social context, we screenshare through her conversations with ChatGPT about the socio-political climate in America preceding the release of a Tracy Chapman song. We also use the LLM to simulate a group of Arc users and interview one of these imaginary personas live on the show to gather preliminary customer insights.


    This is a must-watch for people who want to use AI to tell compelling stories about what they’re building in tech.


    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 


    Want even more?

    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.


    To hear more from Dan Shipper:

    Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 

    Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

    Nashilu Mouen-Makoua: https://twitter.com/lafillemouen

    The Browser Company: https://thebrowser.company/, https://twitter.com/browsercompany

     Arc, the browser that reimagines the way we use the internet: https://arc.net/, https://twitter.com/arcinternet

    Tracy Chapman’s song, Talkin’ About a Revolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv8FBjo1Y8I 

    1 hr 10 min
  • Building an AI Media and Software Empire - Ep. 31 with Brandon Gell

    We’re building a mini-AI media and software empire at Every. 


    Today on AI & I, Brandon Gell joins the show to turn the tables on me and act as podcast host to explore what we’re doing as a company, how we got here, and where we’re going.


    Brandon is Every’s first entrepreneur in residence, and he was the perfect person to host, because he’s one of the key reasons for our recent acceleration.


    Before joining Every, Brandon was the cofounder and CEO of Clyde, a startup that helped brands launch their own insurance and warranty programs, where he raised $50 million and led a team of 100 before selling it to global insurance tech company Cover Genius in early 2023.


    In this episode, he interviews me about how I learned to code in middle school, how I built and sold my first startup coming out of college, and how it all led to Every.


    We also talk about Brandon’s story. He joined Every just four months ago—and it feels like we’ve done the work of years since. We’ve launched two new AI products, an incredible amount of great writing, a new course, and more.


    We get into my candid thoughts on entrepreneurship in the AI age—including why you should ship fast, and how not to be misled by metrics like TAM; how AI startups can find valuable niches—and live demos of our apps Spiral and Sparkle; Brandon’s hard-earned lessons from running a insuretech business for seven years; the confusing realities of being an exited founder, and how we navigated through those times; what brought Brandon to Every—including the email he sent me before joining; and Every’s master plan and what we hope to build over the next few months and years


    This is a must-watch for anyone interested in building a calm, profitable business empire in the age of AI. 


    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 


    Want even more?

    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.


    To hear more from Dan Shipper:

    Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 

    Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

    Brandon Gell: https://twitter.com/bran_don_gell

    The piece Dan recently published about Every’s Master Plan: https://every.to/chain-of-thought/every-s-master-plan 

    Dan’s piece about the unbundling of Excel, and why it serves as an important story in the age of AI: https://every.to/chain-of-thought/the-great-ai-unbundling 

    Tomasz Tunguz, the VC who has also written about Excel: https://tomtunguz.com/ 

    Every cofounder Nathan’s word processor, Lex: https://lex.page/ 

    Spiral, the app that automates 80 percent of repetitive creative work: https://spiral.computer/ 

    Sparkle, the app that automatically organizes your files: https://makeitsparkle.co/ 

    1 hr 57 min
  • How to Be a Smarter Reader in the Age of AI - Ep. 30 with Alex Wieckowski

    Alex Wieckowski is on a mission to make you fall in love with reading again—and he thinks AI can help.


    Alex, who writes a newsletter that captures lessons from books he’s read and tips to become a better reader, Alex & Books, is a creator with over 1 million followers across social platforms. He’s also the author of a book of quotes that will inspire you to read more, Learn to Love Reading.


    We spent an hour talking about how Alex uses AI to be a smarter reader, and we tested out a few strategies live on the show, including:

    • prompting ChatGPT to recommend books that will help me lead a creator-run business better, 
    • understanding the deeper themes in Hermann Hesse’s novel Siddhartha with large language models, and
    • using AI to create an actionable strategy for Alex to build a course based on the frameworks in Alex Hormozi’s business strategy book $100M Offers. 


    Alex clued me into what he’s learned about developing a good reading habit, and his best advice on how to reignite your passion for books. We also discuss Alex’s predictions on how companies like Neuralink, which make use of a brain-computer interface—a technology that allows users to control external devices through brain activity—will change the future of reading and books. Here’s a link to the transcript of this episode.

     

    This is a must-watch for book lovers, people struggling to finish books, and anyone who wants to take their reading to the next level with AI.


    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 


    Want even more?

    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.


    To hear more from Dan Shipper:

    • Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 
    • Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 


    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

    Alex Wieckowski: https://twitter.com/AlexAndBooks_


    Alex’s newsletter: https://alexandbooks.beehiiv.com/

    The self-improvement book that got Alex into reading: How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie


    The books that Dan is reading: Children of Memory by Adrian Tchaikovsky, Pragmatism as Anti-Authoritarianism by Richard Rorty 


    The books that Alex is reading: Never Enough: From Barista to Billionaire by Andrew Wilkinson, $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi, Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse, Outlive by Peter Attia

    1 hr 20 min
  • How Packy McCormick Finds His Next Big Idea - Ep. 29

    One of the most influential voices in tech explains how AI helps him write and invest.

    This episode is sponsored by Create. If you want to maximize your gains, both with your body and with ChatGPT, try creatinine gummies from Create. Place your order through this link to get a 30 percent discount: https://trycreate.co/products/creatine-monohydrate-gummies-270-count?discount=every24

    Packy McCormick’s job is to find, articulate, and invest behind the next big idea.

    He writes Not Boring, a newsletter that analyzes technology and startups for 200,000 subscribers every week. He also invests in early stage companies through his fund Not Boring Capital and is an advisor at a16z crypto.

    I spent an hour with him to understand how he’s baked AI into the way he thinks, writes, and invests. We get into:

    - How he uses AI to understand dense concepts and refine his arguments
    - His thesis around vertically integrated businesses being the future of tech
    - How Packy uses Claude Projects to edit his newsletter
    - How he makes interactive graphics that represent concepts from his essays
    - The tools Packy uses to research, write, and edit Not Boring
    - When he thinks the next crypto bull run will take place

    We also use Projects to build an AI tool that grades Packy’s essays live on the show.

    This is a must-watch for writers, investors, and anyone trying to understand the cutting edge of technology.

    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!

    Want even more?
    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.

    To hear more from Dan Shipper:
    Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe
    Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper

    Timestamps:
    00:00:00 - Teaser
    00:01:24 - Introduction
    00:02:40 - Packy's thesis about the future of technology
    00:07:42 - What Packy quick takes on your crypto portfolio
    00:14:31 - Use LLMs to validate your understanding of complex concepts
    00:18:26 - How Packy used Claude Projects to write an essay he published recently
    00:24:00 - Packy's process to make interactive visual graphics for his essays
    00:31:10 - How to use AI to be thorough in your research
    00:35:04 - How Packy uses Claude to edit his writing
    00:36:44 - The tools Packy uses to create his newsletter
    00:44:12 - Using Claude Projects to make a tool that grades Packy's essays

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:
    Packy McCormick: https://twitter.com/packyM
    Packy’s newsletter, Not Boring: https://www.notboring.co/
    Packy’s fund, Not Boring Capital: https://www.notboring.co/p/introducing-not-boring-capital
    One of Packy’s first essays, about natively integrated companies: https://www.packym.com/natively-integrated-companies
    Anduril, the company Packy thinks is an example of a Techno-industrial: https://www.anduril.com/
    Packy’s portfolio company that’s integration crypto into its product: https://v2.oncyber.io/
    The interactive tool Packy made for a recent newsletter: https://goventvectorsum.replit.app/ for https://www.notboring.co/p/the-american-millennium
    Packy’s essay about America’s tolerance for risk: https://www.notboring.co/p/riskophilia
    Packy’s essays about Blackbird: https://www.notboring.co/p/blackbird

    1 hr 14 min
  • How a Top Podcaster Rides the AI Wave - Ep. 28 with Nathaniel Whittemore

    Keeping up with AI is Nathaniel Whittemore’s full-time job—and I spent an hour with him to understand how he does it.

    Nathaniel is the host of a top-ranked AI podcast on the technology charts, The AI Daily Brief, which breaks down the most important news in AI every day. He is also the founder and CEO of Superintelligent, a platform that teaches you how to use AI for work and fun through interactive video tutorials.

    We talked about how he curates information with X bookmarks, Google News, news aggregator Feedly, and research tool Perplexity; the workflow that helps him record and produce two daily podcasts; and why he thinks optimizing your processes with AI remains one of its most underrated applications.

    Here’s what you’ll learn if you listen to or watch this episode:
     - How to curates AI news using X bookmarks, Google News, Perplexity, and other specialized tools
     - Nathaniel’s insights from producing 300-plus episodes of a top-ranked podcast
     - The granular details of the workflow that helps Nathaniel produce two daily podcasts
     - Actionable advice on how to get the most out of AI right now

    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!

    Want even more?
    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.

    To hear more from Dan Shipper:
    - Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe
    - Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:
    - Nathaniel Whittemore: https://twitter.com/nlw
    - The podcasts Nathaniel hosts: The AI Daily Brief https://www.youtube.com/@AIDailyBrief , The Breakdown Podcast https://www.youtube.com/@NathanielWhittemoreCrypto/videos
    - Nathaniel’s AI education platform: Superintelligent https://besuper.ai/
    - The tools Nathaniel uses to curate AI news: Google News, Feedly https://feedly.com/ , Perplexity https://www.perplexity.ai/
    - The AI-powered content generation tools Nathaniel likes: Hoppy Copy https://www.hoppycopy.co/ , SEO.ai http://SEO.ai

    1 hr 10 min
  • Dwarkesh Patel’s Quest to Learn Everything - Ep. 27

    This episode is sponsored by Command Bar, an embedded AI copilot designed to improve user experience on your web or mobile site. Find them here: https://www.commandbar.com/copilot/ 

    Dwarkesh Patel is on a quest to know everything. 

    He’s using LLMs to enhance how he reads, learns, thinks, and conducts interviews. 

    Dwarkesh is a podcaster who’s interviewed a wide range of people, like Mark Zuckerberg, Tony Blair, and Marc Andreesen. Before conducting each of these interviews, Dwarkesh learns as much as he can about his guest and their area of expertise—AI hardware, tense geopolitical crises, and the genetics of human origins, to name a few. 

    The most important tool in his learning arsenal? AI—specifically Claude, Claude Projects, and a few custom tools he’s built to accelerate his workflow.

    He does this by researching extensively, and as his knowledge grows, each piece of new information builds upon the last, making it easier and easier to grasp meaningful insights. 

    In this interview, I turn the tables on him to understand how the prolific podcaster uses AI to become a smarter version of himself. We get into:

    - How he uses LLMs to remember everything
    - His podcast prep workflow with Claude to understand complex topics
    - Why it’s important to be an early adopter of technology
    - His taste in books and how he uses LLMs to learn from them
    - How he thinks about building a worldview 
    - His quick takes on the AI’s existential questions—AGI and P(doom)

    We also use Claude live on the show to help Dwarkesh research for an upcoming podcast recording.

    This is a must-watch for curious people who want to use AI to become smarter.

    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 

    Want even more?
    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.

    To hear more from Dan Shipper:
    - Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 
    - Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 

    Timestamps:
    00:00:00 - Teaser
    00:01:44 - Introduction 
    00:05:37 - How Dwarkesh uses LLMs to remember everything 
    00:11:50 - Dwarkesh's taste in books and how he uses AI to learn from them 
    00:17:58 - Why it's important to be an early adopter of technology 
    00:20:44 - How Dwarkesh uses Claude to understand complex concepts
    00:26:36 - Dwarkesh on how you can compound your intelligence 
    00:28:21 - Why Dwarkesh is on a quest to know everything 
    00:39:19 - Dan and Dwarkesh prep for an upcoming interview 
    01:04:14 - How Dwarkesh uses AI for post-production of his podcast 
    01:08:51 - Rapid fire on AI's biggest questions—AGI and P(doom)

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:
    - Dwarkesh Patel: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp
    - Dwarkesh’s podcast and newsletter: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/; https://substack.com/@dwarkesh 
    - Dwarkesh’s interview with researcher Andy Matuschak on spaced repetition: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/andy-matuschak 
    - The book about technology and society that both Dan and Dwarkesh are reading: Medieval Technology and Social Change
    - Dan’s interview with Reid Hoffman: https://every.to/chain-of-thought/reid-hoffman-on-how-ai-might-answer-our-biggest-questions 
    - The book by Will Durant that inspires Dwarkesh: Fallen Leaves https://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Leaves-Last-Words-Life/dp/1476771553 
    - One of the most interesting books Dwarkesh has read: The Great Divide https://www.amazon.com/Great-Divide-Nature-Human-World/dp/0061672467
    - Upcoming guests on Dwarkesh’s podcast: David Reich  https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/ and Daniel Yergin https://www.danielyergin.com/

    1 hr 14 min
  • The Internet Creator's Guide to the Future - Ep. 26 with Steph Smith

    Steph Smith is the ultimate internet explorer.

    I spent an hour talking to her about the future of creating on the internet in the age of AI. She’s our first-ever repeat guest, and if you watch the episode you’ll see why: It’s a curious, fun, experimental romp through the best of the digital world.

    We try out four underrated AI products, go through a list of Steph’s favorite niche internet creators, and follow her creative process in Midjourney in granular detail.

    We had a wide-ranging discussion about:
    - How AI changes what humans perceive as valuable in art and creativity
    - The type of AI tools that are poised for success  
    - How AI narrows the gap between ideas and execution 

    If you don’t know her, Steph is the host of the @a16z podcast and the creator behind Internet Pipes, a toolkit to surface useful insights on the internet, and many other cool internet projects. 

    This is a must-watch if you make things on the internet and are interested in how AI is changing what it means to be a creator—and how creator businesses work.

    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! 

    Want even more?
    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.

    To hear more from Dan Shipper:
    - Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe 
    - Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper 

    Timestamps:
    00:00:00 - Teaser
    00:00:46 - Introduction
    00:09:08 - How Steph uses Midjourney to find her aesthetic
    00:20:45 - Steph predicts how creating on the internet will evolve with AI
    00:32:51 - Rapid-fire rundown of Steph's favorite niche creators
    00:42:58 - How Steph trains her brain on better data
    00:48:19 - The AI research tool Steph uses for health information
    00:56:25 - The future of AI tools—and one of Steph's top picks
    01:01:20 - Dan and Steph use AI to create a simulation of the internet
    01:05:09 - How LLM hallucinations can be useful
    01:12:06 - Dan and Steph make a song about what they learned on the show

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:
    Steph Smith: https://twitter.com/stephsmithio
    Internet Pipes: https://internetpipes.com/ 
    Doing Content Right: https://doingcontentright.com/#features 
    A few of Steph’s favorite niche creators: India Rose Crawford https://www.instagram.com/indiarosecrawford/?hl=en , Blackforager https://www.instagram.com/blackforager/?hl=en , David Zinn https://www.instagram.com/davidzinn/?hl=en , David Bird https://www.instagram.com/davidmbird/ , WatchMaggiePaint https://www.instagram.com/watchmaggiepaint/?hl=en
    The podcast episode Dan did with filmmaker Dave Clark: https://every.to/chain-of-thought/how-a-hollywood-director-uses-ai-to-make-movies 
    The AI tools Dan and Steph use on the show: Consensus https://consensus.app/ , Globe Explorer https://explorer.globe.engineer/ , websim.ai http://websim.ai , Granola https://www.granola.so/ , Suno https://suno.com/

    1 hr 20 min
  • The AI-powered Era of Scientific Discovery Is Here - Ep. 25 with Dr. Bradley Love

    Dr. Bradley Love is building a tool that can predict the future.
    Dr. Bradley Love is transforming neuroscience research with AI.
    He's the creator of BrainGPT, a large language model that can predict the results of neuroscience studies—before they’re conducted. And it performs better than human experts.
    We spent 90 minutes exploring how AI is reshaping scientific research and our understanding of the brain.
    Bradley argues that as scientific knowledge grows exponentially, we need new tools to make sense of it all. BrainGPT isn't just summarizing existing research—it's predicting future discoveries.

    We get into:

    • How BrainGPT outperforms neuroscience professors

    • Why clean scientific explanations may be a thing of the past

    • The challenges of interpreting complex biological systems

    • How AI could change the way we approach scientific research

    • The limitations of our intuitive understanding of the brain


    This is a must-watch for anyone interested in the future of science, AI, and how we understand the human mind.

    If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!

    Want even more?
    Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.

    To hear more from Dan Shipper:
    • Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe
    • Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper

    Timestamps:
    00:00:00 - Teaser
    00:01:00 - Introduction 
    00:01:58 - The motivations behind building a LLM that can predict the future 
    00:11:14 - How studying the brain can solve the AI revolution’s energy problem 
    00:13:32 - Dr. Love and his team have developed a new way to prompt AI 
    00:18:27 - Dan’s take on how AI is changing science 
    00:22:54 - Why clean scientific explanations are a thing of the past 
    00:29:49 - How our understanding of explanations will evolve 
    00:37:31 - Why Dr. Love thinks the way we do scientific research is flawed 
    00:40:42 - Why humans are drawn to simple explanations 
    00:45:03 - How Dr. Love would rebuild the field of science

    Links to resources mentioned in the episode:
    Dr. Bradley Love: https://bradlove.org/; https://twitter.com/ProfData
    BrainGPT: https://braingpt.org/
    Thomas Nagel’s book on the philosophy of science that Dr. Love recommends: The View From Nowhere
    The essay that Thomas Nagel is famous for: What is it like to be a bat?   

    59 min

About The Every Podcast

From the publisher's feed

The Every Podcast is Every's flagship show. Co-hosts Dan Shipper and Natalia Quintero talk with founders, researchers, writers, and operators about what they're building and how they use AI in their own work. The show also takes you behind the scenes at Every. We share how our team is using and exploring AI, including what we're trying, what's working, and what we're learning along the way.