The Evolving Leader

In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Sara Deschamps talk to Jonathan Kaufman, who is leading the debate about how we can think differently about the converging issues of diversity, disability and the huge market opportunities they represent. Our conversation ranges from his time as a White House advisor to Barack Obama, to his current work as a research consultant and activist. His creative and optimistic mind is infectious, constantly reframing to find social and commercial innovation opportunities where others see stalled points and roadblocks. There's much to learn here so sit back and enjoy this fascinating conversation.

Referenced during this episode:

J Kaufman Consulting

 Forbes articles

 
Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:
Leading in a Non-Linear World: Building Wellbeing, Strategic and Innovation Mindsets for the Future (Jean Gomes, 2022)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence: A Journey to Personal and Professional Success (Scott Allender, 2023)


Social:
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LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Emma Sinclair talk to applied psychology researcher and author Amy Walters Cohen. In her book ‘Ruthlessly Caring and Other Paradoxical Mindsets’, Amy explores how leaders cope with the true landscape of leadership judgement, comprising competing demands and seemingly impossible paradoxes that morph over time. Sit back and listen as Amy, Jean and Emma discuss the rise in the forces that create (what Amy refers to as) the washing machine effect, and the five paradoxical mindsets that she believes will be essential for future fit leadership. 

References from this episode:
Ruthlessly Caring and Other Paradoxical Mindsets (Amy Walters Cohen, 2023)


Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:
Leading in a Non-Linear World: Building Wellbeing, Strategic and Innovation Mindsets for the Future (Jean Gomes, 2022)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence: A Journey to Personal and Professional Success (Scott Allender, 2023)


Social:

Instagram           @evolvingleader
LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Today on the Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Scott Allender and Jean Gomes talk to Rachel Stockey. Rachel is the head of The Department of Entrepreneurial Skills at King’s College London. Rachel’s mission is to unlock the limitless potential of people and their ideas and as part of that she works to demystify the world of entrepreneurship in order to spark the next generation of thought leaders, disrupters and innovators who are ready to take on the big challenges we face globally. Outside of King’s, Rachel coaches entrepreneurs ‘to help them stay sane’, make better decisions, build better companies and look after themselves in the process.

References from this episode:
Seven skills of an entrepreneurial mindset

How entrepreneurial is your current thinking?


Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:
Leading in a Non-Linear World: Building Wellbeing, Strategic and Innovation Mindsets for the Future (Jean Gomes, 2022)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence: A Journey to Personal and Professional Success (Scott Allender, 2023)


Social:
Instagram           @evolvingleader
LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this latest episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Emma Sinclair talk to Mike Skrypnek. Mike is a strategist helping entrepreneurs and industry leaders find their happiness. He is the founder and chair of The UNLimited WORTH Wellness Society and Project, an organisation that he set up to realise a vision of a world free from the impacts of trauma. Mike hosts the Unlimited Worth podcast and in August 2023 his book UnLimited Worth was published.

References from this episode:
UNLimited WORTH: Lessons of Healing from Childhood Trauma; Finding Happiness, Love and Success for Male Leaders

The UNLimited Worth podcast


Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:
Leading in a Non-Linear World: Building Wellbeing, Strategic and Innovation Mindsets for the Future (Jean Gomes, 2022)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence: A Journey to Personal and Professional Success (Scott Allender, 2023)

Social:
Instagram           @evolvingleader
LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Emma Sinclair talk to Emma Sky. Emma is an expert on conflict, reconciliation and stability, and has worked mainly in the Middle East. She served in Iraq as the political advisor to US General Ray Odierno and General David Petraeus during the surge and is now Director of the International Leadership Center at Yale University, overseeing the Yale World Fellows program and other initiatives. Emma Sky is a Senior Fellow at Yale's Jackson Institute for Global Affairs, where she lectures on Middle East politics and global affairs.

SUGGESTED READING FROM THIS EPISODE:
The Unravelling: High Hopes and Missed Opportunities in Iraq (Emma Sky, 2015)

In a Time of Monsters: Travelling in a Middle East in Revolt (Emma Sky, 2019)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence: A Journey to Personal and Professional Success (Scott Allender, 2023)

Social:
Instagram           @evolvingleader
LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to leadership consultant, author and AI expert Nick Chatrath. In his work, Nick’s focus is helping others be all they can be, and currently that includes helping clients bridge the gap between what it means to be human in a new world of Artificial Intelligence (AI), and in creating environments where others can do their best thinking. In February 2023, Nick’s book ‘The Threshold, Leading In The Age of AI’ was published, within which Nick presents a framework for how leaders can adapt to the new age of AI by leaning in the qualities and skills that make us uniquely human. 

The Threshold: Leading in the Age of AI (Diversion Books, 2023)

 www.youtube.com/@evolvingleader

0’00 Introduction

4'58 Tell us about yourself and your career and what led you to write your book?

7’17 In your view what are the qualities that make us uniquely human and give us the advantage?

9’26 Your book is about our relationship with AI and you talk about needing to manage both a psychological independence from AI while simultaneously maintaining a close relationship with it. Can you delve into that for us?

12’30 How do you prime the people you work with to try and get into this more divergent form of thinking?

16’11 Tell us more about the competitive advantage for an organisation that embraces the more human piece versus the companies that are prioritising the technology

19’26 You point out that old models of leadership are obsolete. In your view, which models of leadership should be done away with and what should they be replaced with?

21'56 What do you think in terms of how we need to evolve to co-exist with AI as a pervasive environment?

26’25 How do we not fall into the trap of embracing almost magical properties onto AI and ensuring that it’s not the GPS system that takes us over the cliff?

30’15 How do we start to raise leadership consciousness as things move forwards so rapidly?

35’15 What’s next for you? Where are you taking this?

36’27 What’s the hope for your daughters? What kind of world do you hope they will step into in terms of their relationship with technology?

Social:

Instagram           @evolvingleader
 LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
 Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
 YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Economics has often been accused of making inferences about human behaviour without any real understanding of how we actually make decisions, choose between options or act against our stated interests. Behavioural economics combining economics and psychology started to accelerate its development in the 1980s, but its roots can be traced back to the 18th century economist Adam Smith. In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to Matthias Sutter, one of the world’s leading behavioural economists about his (often) counter-intuitive findings, and how they can help leaders create fairer, more inclusive organisations.

Behavioral Economics for Leaders (Matthias Sutter, 2023)
www.youtube.com/@evolvingleader

3.10 Give us a summary of your journey as an economist and the areas that you are most intrigued and excited about
5.11 How do you approach this work and how is this field evolving?
7.05 In your book your write about how economic outcomes are shaped by hidden biases. Can you unpack what's going on there?
11.13 Can you share some of your findings around the value of these social skills and how they translate into financial benefits for organisations?
14.24 What's the missing convincing component that we need to tap into?
17.03 You have said that when you are trying to find a job, it's the weaker connections in your social network that are most important. Why is that?
18.37 Something else you point out is that having more women in a start-up is a predictor of longevity. Tell us about this
21.32 What happens when companies become more transparent with salaries?
25.34 There are parts of the world that require transparency. What are some insights that will help leaders manage that double edged sword?
27.36 You said that employees who don't support company mission statements are 50% less productive. Can you unpack that?
31.18 Moving to the need for quotas to encourage more gender equality. Why do we need quotas?
34.54 The underlying assumption is that being competitive is a core part of being a good leader, but you're saying that there is more to it than that
37.01 Your research suggests that women leaders can earn more revenue per employee when they are on the board. Can you elaborate?
39.57 What have you learnt about trust?
44.43 Do you have any other insights or advice on how leaders might build or accelerate a sense of trust in their teams?
47.14 Can we talk about decision making and money?
50.55 Can we talk about your research into teenager's and children's decision making? What are you doing in that area?
53.33 What's the most powerful that helps children and teenagers to build that muscle of differed gratification?
55.09 What have you learnt on what encompases or inhibits ethical behaviour amongst individuals and teams?

Social:
Instagram           @evolvingleader
LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this bonus episode of the Evolving Leader podcast, host Jean Gomes talks to Matt Mayberry. Matt is a thought leader on business development and culture, author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller ‘Culture is the Way’ and former NFL Pro linebacker for the Chicago Bears. 

0.00 Introduction

1.01 Let’s start with a pitch for your book “Culture is the way”.

2.26 What’s the case in terms of what culture is, why it’s important and what I can do about it?

6.44 The middle manager might think of this topic as not being in their remit. What’s in it for them and why should they be doing this?

8.44 Give us a high-level view of the framework that you outline in the book.

10.45 What are the things that you are encountering in your work that stand in the way of this being adopted at scale?

12.41 Why is this so important to you?

14.52 What else should I be asking you about your work and the book?

16.23 What’s the best way of finding your book and contacting you?

Social:
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LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader2271

Books written by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:

“Leading In A Non-Linear World” (Jean Gomes, 2023)

“The Enneagram Of Emotional Intelligence” (Scott Allender, 2023)

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of the Evolving Leader, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Emma Sinclair talk to Vaughn Tan. Vaugh is a consultant, author and professor of strategy at University College London School of Management. He studies innovation and adaptability in the context of uncertainty with a focus on processes for hiring, goal setting and motivation at the team level. 

References from the episode:

• The Uncertainty Mindset, Innovation Insights From The Frontiers of Food
•  Project on not-knowing
• idk
• What makes us human for now?

0.00 Introduction

3.29 At a party, how would you explain what you do?

5.09 You’ve spent long periods of time observing some of the world’s most famous chefs. How is uncertainty used strategically in that environment?

8.11 Organisations are built to de-risk, not to imagine or embrace uncertainty. What is your experience of how leaders in these organisations are starting to accept the need to embrace uncertainty and accept the need for imagination?

12.45 You identify the two categories of people who understand that there are forms of ‘not knowing that are not risk’. Do you think it’s possible to have a natural aptitude for not having to know?

14.59 Thinking about individuals who are at different ends of the scale for the need for closure and then putting them together as a team, what have you been learning about that environment mix?

21.06 Have you got a practical takeaway that you can give us around starting that loading that you can do with a team?

24.51 How do innovation teams motivate themselves to do uncomfortable, unfamiliar innovation work’. How do you take this idea of building a muscle of discomfort into innovation teams and what have you learnt from that?

28.59 What have you observed from the way that either individuals or teams get closer to the feelings of actually doing this? How do you make sense of the emotions that are linked to this sense of uncertainty and disruption?

35.20 You’ve said that anything that is fully knowable becomes routine and can be done by a machine. How does not knowing play into human value creation in a world of automation?

39.47 Can you give us your thoughts on what that might lead to in terms of jobs, role, new competencies that don’t currently exist in the workplace?

43.47 What are you working on at the moment? What’s next for you?

Social:
Instagram           @evolvingleader
LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube           @evolvingleader2271

The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of the Evolving Leader, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to serial entrepreneur, engineer, inventor and pioneer in artificial intelligence Peter Voss. Peter spent more than 15 years studying what intelligence is, how it develops in humans and also the current state of artificial intelligence, resulting in the creation of a natural language intelligence engine designed to “adapt and grow” with the user. During that time Peter was part of a group that coined the term AGI (artificial general intelligence) and is now focused on commercialising the second generation of an AGI-based conversational AI technology called Aigo. His mission is to provide “highly intelligent and hyper-personalised assistants for everyone”. 

Reference in this episode:

Aigo.ai

Peter’s articles on Medium

0.00 Introduction

3.31 How did you get into the artificial intelligence space?

4.57 Can you give us a simple definition of AI?

9.37 So when we look at these systems, why is it different this time?

12.24 There’s a lot of excitement and a lot of fear surround AI. How will AGI solve problems that need to be solved, and what are the risks?

15.06 With this radical abundance, there is always a flip side. With every technology, human nature does what it does, good or bad. What are the ethical and/or moral challenges facing us with this technology?

18.02 How in your mind would AGI stand in the gap between psychology and AI?

20.38 The current investment that is being placed into all technologies is dependent on the current ways that the global economic system works. When we unleash this abundance, it changes some of the basic assumptions about how capitalism works. What are thoughts regarding that disruption and how is it going to change the fabric of our society?

22.49  Are we at risk with getting to a level of AGI in every facet of our lives where people will struggle to find their human purpose other than depending on this technology?

24.19 Where does AI start to harm us and how to prevent that existential crisis?

26.07 Turning to what our audience should be doing to prepare for this AI revolution? Is there something that they should be thinking about and doing now?

29.32 If you were advising a CEO on how to ready their organisation for the next decade, what would your checklist of top priorities be in getting them to think about things?

30.52 What are the moral considerations to make sure that we can advertise to people but not take over their independent thinking in how they live their lives or what they want to buy?

34.24 The reason why we’re lured into this is that it’s seemingly free. How do we break that economic cycle?

35.52 Coming back to the fears, how do we ensure that the personal assistant is secure, that it won’t flip and reveal all of our secrets to the world?

39.39 How is the area that you’re working in playing out compared to the big model systems?

44.42 Can you set a time frame for us? What do you think the next 5-10 years holds in terms of what you’re doing? When will it really start to change our lives?

47.00 Your day job is commercially utilising this conversational AI technology and there are huge opportunities there. 

49.36 So what is standing in your way to accelerate this?

50.37 How can people get in touch with you?

Social:
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LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast
Twitter               @Evolving_Leader
YouTube   

Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. 

Available wherever you get your podcasts.