The Exploring Antinatalism Podcast

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The Talk&Taste Debate: Should we be having more kids? event, was held in New York City, on Friday, April 25th, 2025, to a SOLD OUT audience of over 70 people, at the beautiful Hancock foundation! Arguing for the position of pro-natalism and against my antinatalism, was the wonderful Travis Timmerman, associate professor of philosophy, and chair of the philosophy department, at Seton Hall University - and an Exploring Antinatalism Podcast alum! Check out episode #42 if you would like to see my first conversation with Travis!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veplsEq3rKs And make sure to purchase his co-edited book, Exploring the Philosophy of Death and Dying HERE!: https://a.co/d/7npejM0 Read more about the event HERE!: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/talktaste-debate-should-we-be-having-more-kids-tickets-1297422067329?utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&utm-medium=discovery&utm-term=listing&utm-source=cp&aff=ebdsshcopyurl Follow Talk&Taste on Instagram, HERE! https://www.instagram.com/talkandtasteclub?igsh=MXB1cmZ0ZnI4b2p3OQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr Learn more about The Handcock Foundation HERE!: https://www.instagram.com/thehancockfoundation/ A portion of the audio was produced by Kim Nerderveen Pieterse

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STALKER
Andrei Tarkovsky 1979
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3hBLv-HLEc | FULL MOVIE | Directed by An...  
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FAQ ABOUT THE VIDEO
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1. Is the “Big White Button” actually in Tarkovsky’s Stalker?
No. It’s my own thought experiment — a conceptual device that simplifies and sharpens the moral problem at the heart of Stalker. The Room in the film is ambiguous, mysterious, possibly dangerous. The Big White Button strips away that ambiguity: it gives you exactly what you truly desire, but only if that desire is genuine happiness for all, achieved through everyone’s voluntary choices. If that’s not your deepest desire… the button won’t work.
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2. Why do you present the Black Dog as female?
Because in this framework, she forms a triad with The Wife and The Child — three figures who remain behind while the men go into the Zone. They embody a kind of grounded, enduring presence that contrasts with the abstract, moral-intellectual struggle of the Zone. There’s no indication in the film about the dog’s gender, but imagining her as female enriches the symmetry — and opens a symbolic space where the Dog is not just a witness, but a watcher, a remnant, possibly a guide.
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3. What’s the role of The Black Dog in your interpretation?
She is both observer and continuity, left behind (perhaps by the alien Visitors) to see if anyone ever uses The Room — or the Button — wisely. She follows the men in the Zone but doesn’t interfere. In the end, she returns with them and appears to settle in The Stalker’s household. In my reading, she represents the quiet call to try again. She’s the cosmic “maybe.”
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4. Are you saying Tarkovsky was wrong, or incomplete?
No — more like: unfinished on purpose. Tarkovsky leaves Stalker unresolved because that’s the only honest way to end a film about moral uncertainty. What I’m offering is not a critique, but an imagined continuation — a possible next step that replaces spiritual hope with logical clarity, and then exposes the paradox at the core of that clarity.
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5. Is the White Button really possible, logically?
It seems so, at first glance. But the contradiction creeps in when you examine the conditions: happiness for all + through voluntary choices. What if some choose differently? What if someone wants suffering or domination? That’s where the thought experiment collapses into paradox. As I say in the video: “If you are God, you can make them free or happy — but not both.”
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6. So what’s the “correct” answer? Should I press the Button or not?
That’s the wrong question — and the right one. The thought experiment is designed to reveal the limits of benevolence when paired with freedom. There may be no right answer. Or rather: maybe the only right answer is to try again — knowing full well that trying again is also tragic, and human, and holy.

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Watch the video version HERE!:  https://youtu.be/6tqrrBdbZlc 
Make sure to watch:
Part 1: The case of Marzipan: What would David Benatar do?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrGMwk9Jww
Part 2: How wrong cAN I be?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb3eEIUqPtc

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Watch the video version HERE!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb3eEIUqPtc

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Watch the video version HERE!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpcEdBRX0ZM

David Benatar and Matti Häyry discuss Matti's marzipAN trilogy
marzipAN #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrGMwk9Jww
marzipAN #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb3eEIUqPtc
marzipAN #3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tqrrBdbZlc
and its ethical implications.

 Matti Häyry’s take on antinatalism and related topics can be found in:
– Call Me VEXAN Then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXTcxixHIg8
– Exit Duty Generator: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-quarterly-of-healthcare-ethics/article/exit-duty-generator/49ACA1A21FF0A4A3D0DB81230192A042?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=bookmark

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Watch the video version HERE!:  https://youtu.be/cK0O7bxyJYc 

Read more about the event HERE!: 
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/talktaste-debate-should-we-be-having-more-kids-tickets-1297422067329?utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&utm-medium=discovery&utm-term=listing&utm-source=cp&aff=ebdsshcopyurl

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Learn more about The Handcock Foundation HERE!: https://www.instagram.com/thehancockfoundation/

Friday, April 25th, in New York City, I will be featured in my very first public lecture and debate event - Talk&Taste Debate: Should we be having more kids? I will of course be arguing for the position of antinatalism, and joining me, arguing for the pro-natalist position, will be the wonderful Travis Timmerman, associate professor of philosophy, and chair of the philosophy department, at Seton Hall University - and an Exploring Antinatalism Podcast alum! Check out episode #42 if you would like to see my first conversation with Travis!: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veplsEq3rKs

Buy his co-edited book, Exploring the Philosophy of Death and Dying HERE!: https://a.co/d/7npejM0

Doors at 7pm, and the adresss is - The Handcock Foundation, 247 Hancock Street Brooklyn, NY 11216. The admission fee, (Sorry, not my doing!) is $28.95 - Hope to see some of you there!

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Watch the video version HERE!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJwrqJacX0A

Matti Häyry @ Puistofilosofia / Park Philosophy PRESS RELEASE A Splash of Antinatalism in a Popular Finnish Outdoor Philosophy Event • Matti Häyry has been commissioned to give a presentation / performance in the popular outdoor philosophy event Puistofilosofia (Park Philosophy) in Finland in July 2025 • Puistofilosofia Week is an annual festival of thought and dialogue held in Ikaalinen, where people gather in the shade of the Central Park to discuss – Socratically – topics that interest them • Matti Häyry is a Finnish philosopher, a voluntarily extinctionist antinatalist, and he will talk about his life-long journey towards antinatalism, extinctionism, and nihilism – more below • The presentation, in Finnish, is titled No New People, No World, No Purpose – But in What Order? and, apart from academic info flashes it will include songs about futility and beyond • The full program and exact schedule will be released during the spring, and negotiations are underway for the recording and production of the performance for public distribution after the event Matti outlines his presentation: I’ll be chatting about antinatalism (no new people), extinctionism (no world), and nihilism (no purpose), and singing songs that may or may not have to do with what I say. For me, antinatalism means that I have no offspring, I don’t plan on having any, and I wouldn’t mind – might even be pleased – if everyone followed suit. The “wouldn’t mind” and “might even be pleased” bits take me so deep into moral philosophy that it remains to be seen whether I can find my way back. They also define the limits of my extinctionism. My nihilism – if any – is still under construction. We’ll see if I have anything sensible to say about it. If not, I’ll have to ask the rest of the park philosophers present. I’m sure we’ll figure something out, together. Park Philosophy 2025: https://puistofilosofia.fi/puistofilosofia-2025/

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Watch the video version HERE!:  https://youtu.be/C8aCNTUmLbE

A Real Nowhere Man by The Better Nevers

is based on the original idea of John Lennon, Paul McCartney, and The Beatles in their 1965 hit single Nowhere Man and embellished by the pessimist philosophy of David Benatar that takes Lennon's notion of futility a step further. 

Original music and lyrics John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Original arrangement The Beatles. 

This version's lyrics by Matti Häyry, inspired by David Benatar's seminal book Better Never to Have Been 2006, and performance by Matti Häyry. 

A REAL NOWHERE MAN 

Better never to have been 
This your parents didn’t see 
So they sent you down that road of misery 

Failed to grasp asymmetry 
Thought too much of quality 
Couldn’t see that all they had was fantasy 

Sleep is good, calm is better 
(No life)
But the best would be never 
(All right) 
To have been brought into this sadness at all 

They were blind as they could be 
With their dreams of harmony 
Pollyanna be their guide to destiny 

Sleep is good, calm is better 
(No life) 
But the best would be never 
(All right)
To have been brought into this badness at all 

Nonexistence, let me stay 
Can there be a brighter day? 
Without you and me and without anyone 

Sleep is good, calm is better 
(No life) 
But the best would be never 
(All right) 
To have been brought into this madness at all 

Better never to have been 
Quality, asymmetry 
Better never to have been at all 
Better never to have been at all 

Dedicated to Amanda Sukenick on her the-meaning-of-life-according-to-the-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy better-never-to-have-been anniversary. 

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Presentation in The Ethics of Human Extinction Reading Group by Matti Häyry on 20 September 2024. - Includes an answer to the classic question: "Why don't you kill yourself, then?" :D