In episode 117, I sit down with Brigadier General David Winnacker, USMC, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, professional development, and what it means to deliberately prepare people for greater responsibility. We explore the contrast between the Marine Corps’ “up or out” culture and the fire service, where leadership development is often less structured and requires us to actively seed the field—demystifying staff roles, challenging people to self-actualize in their careers, and creating reasons for talented people to step forward and lead. Brigadier General Winnacker shares lessons on seizing opportunities—“when there’s an opportunity, you take it”—building the right tools in your leadership toolbox, and developing the pattern recognition necessary to know which tool to use and when. We also get into the tension between firefighters loving to be challenged but hating to be tested, the influence of Stockdale and Stoic philosophy, and how leaders should approach change, emerging technology, data, and evidence-based practice. Underneath it all is a simple question about succession and responsibility: if not you, then who? And as we look toward the future, we consider why good leaders must be willing to “carefully interrogate the language of the past” without losing the lessons that language was meant to carry forward.

A little more about today’s guest…

Fire Chief (ret) Dave Winnacker spent 21 years in the fire service in Fresno City, Alameda County, and as chief of the Moraga-Orinda Fire District from 2017-2024. He served as the Western Fire Chiefs Association California Director, as the California Fire Chiefs Association WUI Task Force lead, and as the fire service representative on the California AB9 Wildfire Mitigation Committee and the California AB642 Risk Modeling Advisory Workgroup. At Stanford University he is a Hoover Institution Veteran Fellow working on the intersection of wildfire and property insurance with an emphasis on the pricing of risk. In the private sector, he was the co-founding advisor to ZoneHaven, an evacuation software in use throughout California and is a co-founder of XyloPlan Risk, a wildfire risk assessment and visualization company. Prior to joining the fire service, he served on active duty as a Marine Corps Infantry officer from 1997-2004 and remained in the reserve component serving as the Commanding Officer, 4th Force Reconnaissance Company from 2014-2016, as the Deputy Commander, 23D Marine Regiment from 2019-2022, as the Chief of Staff, Marine Innovation Unit from 2022-2024, and currently serves as the Commanding General, Force Headquarters Group.

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Linkedin: David Winnacker

In episode 116 of the Fireground Fitness Podcast, we sit down with Fire Chief Billy Alcorn to discuss leadership, culture, and the evolving challenges of the modern fire service. Chief Alcorn shares his journey from a small-town firefighter in Merced to leading the Fresno Fire Department, offering candid insight into building trust, fostering accountability, succession planning, and maintaining a “service above all else” mindset. The conversation dives into the importance of vulnerability in leadership, bridging relationships between city administration and firefighters, preparing the next generation of leaders, and ensuring firefighters never lose sight of the mission to serve their communities.

A little more about today’s guest…

Chief Billy Alcorn’s distinguished career in the fire service began in 2003 as a Paid Call Firefighter with the Merced County Fire Department. His dedication and skill quickly earned recognition, leading to his appointment as a Firefighter with the City of Merced Fire Department in 2004.

Over the years, Chief Alcorn demonstrated exceptional leadership and commitment, advancing through the ranks from Fire Engineer to Fire Captain, Battalion Chief, and Deputy Chief. In 2018, he achieved the role of Fire Chief for the City of Merced.

In 2021, Chief Alcorn joined the Fresno Fire Department as Deputy Chief. His leadership and contributions were soon acknowledged, resulting in his appointment as Interim Fire Chief in March 2023 and ultimately Fire Chief in July 2023.

Chief Alcorn’s career reflects an unwavering dedication to public safety, a deep commitment to the communities he serves, and a relentless pursuit of excellence in the fire service profession.

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Linkedin: Billy Alcorn

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In episode 115, we sit down with Maxwell Bush, former Navy SEAL and leader with Sharp Performance, for a candid conversation about resilience, culture, and the true cost of high-performance careers. We discuss how toughness alone is not enough, why sleep, recovery, and mindset matter, and how first responders can better care for themselves and each other. This episode is a powerful reminder that strength is not just about enduring hardship; it is about doing the daily work to stay whole

A little more about today’s guest…

Maxwell Bush is a former U.S. Navy SEAL who served with SEAL Team One, achieving the rank of Special Operator First Class. Today, he is a founding team member of Sharp Performance, where he serves as Head of Customer Engagement, bringing elite leadership, discipline, and mission-focused service to help clients perform at their highest level.

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You can find the Fireground Fitness podcast wherever great podcasts are located. So, search it out and subscribe. Your feedback is powerful, and greatly appreciated. Go to apple podcasts, subscribe, rate and review the podcast or shoot me an email!

Email:  [email protected]

Web:  sharpperformance.com

LinkedIn: Maxwell Bush

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What if the biggest thing holding us back in the fire service isn’t tradition, but resistance to change?

Today we’re taking Science to the Station. And before you roll your eyes, think about this: so many things we now accept as standard operating procedure were once controversial. Air packs. Seatbelts. Cancer awareness. Modern fire dynamics. The talking points change, but progress happens because someone stayed curious long enough to ask, “What if there’s a better way?”

That mindset is called being an apocaloptimist, and if you’ve never heard that term, stick with us. It’s not about doom and gloom. It’s about acknowledging the realities we face while still believing we can adapt, evolve, and come out stronger on the other side.

We’ll also dig into something we don’t talk about nearly enough: your biology. Sleep, hormones, recovery, and personal bio-hacking, not the influencer kind, but practical, evidence-based ways to figure out what your body needs to perform, recover, and stay healthy for the long haul.

Because this isn’t about shortcuts. It’s about consistency, especially sleep, over a long timeline. The quiet discipline of showing up rested, recovered, and ready, year after year, career after career.

This episode is about curiosity over comfort, science over superstition, and building a fire service that’s healthier, smarter, and more resilient than the one we inherited.

Enjoy the episode and let’s take Science to the Station.

A little more about today’s guest…

Sara A. Jahnke, Ph.D.

Dr. Sara Jahnke is a leading expert in firefighter health research, dedicated to turning scientific findings into practical solutions for firefighters and emergency responders. With a background in psychology and epidemiology, she directs the Center for Fire, Rescue & EMS Health Research at NDRI USA, Inc. since 2011, overseeing over $30 million in research projects funded by FEMA, NIH, DoD, and health foundations. Dr. Jahnke has received multiple awards, including the President's Award for Excellence in Fire Service Research and the John Granito Award. She serves on numerous advisory boards, leads Science to the Station: A Health and Wellness Alliance, and actively engages with organizations like the Firefighter Cancer Support Network, Women in Fire, and the IAFC’s Safety, Health and Survival Section. Her work bridges scientific knowledge and real-world applications, significantly impacting firefighter health and safety.

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IG: science2station

FB: Science to the Station

LinkedIn: Sara Jahnke

LinkedIn: Science to the Station

www.science2station.org

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Dr. Joe Pennino and I had a great conversation, and we landed on one of my favorite topics - sleep! Specifically, how do we help firefighters get more of it? Serving as the Fire Chief, he led an initiative at the Roswell, Georgia FD to change the time that Firefighters started their shifts. The intent is to give them more time to sleep in when coming on and off duty  - Interesting right? In episode 113, Pennino shares the research findings as well as the real-life effects it had for the members of his agency. This is a wonderful episode, please enjoy!

A little more about today’s guest…

Dr. Joe Pennino, DPA, EFO, CFO, PMP

Dr. Joe Pennino is a public sector strategist, educator, and former fire chief with over two decades of experience in public safety. He currently serves as the Deputy City Administrator for Planning, Performance, and Innovation in Roswell, Georgia, where he leads enterprise strategy, technology modernization, and workforce development across the city’s core administrative departments.

Before stepping into citywide leadership, Dr. Pennino served as Roswell’s Fire Chief and Emergency Manager, leading a $17 million department with more than 200 personnel. His team implemented nationally recognized programs focused on firefighter health, evidence-based scheduling, and long-term wellness. Under his leadership, the department received the 2025 Senator Paul S. Sarbanes Fire Service Safety Leadership Award for pioneering research that connects shift schedules, sleep quality, and firefighter safety.

Dr. Pennino is a familiar voice in the national fire service conversation. He has presented at the U.S. Fire Administration’s Executive Fire Officer and Leadership Symposium, Fire-Rescue International, and multiple regional leadership conferences. His work has been featured by FOX 5 Atlanta, Science at the Station, and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, highlighting his commitment to data-driven decision-making and frontline operational health.

A Certified Project Management Professional, Joe holds a Doctorate in Public Administration from Valdosta State University and a Master’s in Public Policy from Liberty University. He teaches in Liberty’s Doctor of Public Administration program and provides executive coaching for government and higher education leaders, helping them strengthen their clarity, influence, and resilience.

For more information on the firefighter scheduling study, leadership coaching, and Dr. Pennino’s work, visit drpennino.com

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IG: Dr_Joe_Pennino

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LinkedIn: Dr. Joe Pennino

www: drpennino.com

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Episode 112, Crackyl, with Kory Pearn

In episode 112, we sit down with Fire Captain, Editor-in-Chief, and Musician Kory Pearn, who walks us through his journey into the fire service, onto the stage, through heart failure and into becoming a leader in the fire service health and wellness publication space. This is a wonderful episode, please enjoy!

A little more about today’s guest…

Kory Pearn is a 23-year firefighter, Captain, and the Founder, Publisher,

and Editor-in-Chief of CRACKYL Magazine — one of the fire service’s

fastest-growing media platforms. He is an author, public speaker, and a

leading voice advocating for firefighter health, identity, wellness, and

career longevity.

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KORYPEARN

Publisher / Editor-In-Chief

CRACKYL Media Inc.

5199028574

[email protected]

https://www.crackyl.com

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Episode 111, Unconscious Competence, with Forest Reeder

In this episode, we sit down with the legendary Fire Chief Forest Reeder, who brings 47 years of experience in fire service leadership, training, and authorship. Chief Reeder unpacks the concept of "unconscious competence"—the ability to perform critical tasks instinctively under pressure—and explains how rigorous training builds that readiness. We explore how fire service tactics have evolved with evidence-based practices, and how cultural shifts in the firehouse affect team cohesion and trust. From SCBA and ladders to leadership at every level, this conversation highlights the importance of staying grounded in core values while adapting to a modern fire service. Tune in for practical wisdom, timeless lessons, and a call to enjoy the journey. Please enjoy!

A little more about today’s guest…

Forest Reeder began his fire service career in 1978 and retired as Fire Chief of the Tinley Park (IL) Fire Department in 2021. He currently serves as the Interim Fire Chief for the Sterling, (IL) Fire Department. He has worked extensively in the areas of instruction, firefighter safety and officer development and earned his Master of Science Degree in Public Safety Administration in 2004. He is the author of Fire Department Incident Safety Officer 4th edition (2025) and co-author of Fire Service Instructor Principles and Practices soon the be published in its 4th edition. Forest presents nationally on fire service leadership, safety and instructor development. He was inducted into the Moraine Valley Community College Alumni Hall of Fame in 2020 and awarded the Distinguished Alumnus award in 2021. In 2008, he received the ISFSI George D. Post Instructor of the Year, considered to be the highest recognition for fire service instructors in the nation.

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in: Forest Reeder

On the net: thetrainingofficer.com (Mad Training and response solutions)

Email:  [email protected]

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In this episode, we sit down with two seasoned fire professionals —  Deputy Chief Stuart Esh of Buckeye Fire Medical Rescue Dept. and Firefighter/Paramedic Marcus Haynes of Phoenix Fire—to unpack a pivotal fireground event that shaped their careers.

Back in 2009, a structure fire in a Buckeye trailer park led to Marcus suffering significant burns and forced both men to reevaluate how they approached tactics, leadership, communication, and fire dynamics. Stu, a relatively new captain at the time, reflects on how experience gaps and unclear pre-fire communication contributed to the chaotic moments on scene. Marcus candidly opens up about the moment his confidence and ego led him into a hostile environment alone, ultimately resulting in serious injury.

The conversation is raw and honest.

-   Marcus shares the physical and emotional aftermath of his injuries—including painful hospital recovery, strained family relationships, and the long road back to duty.

-   Stu speaks openly about the weight of responsibility he carried as a company officer and how the incident redefined his approach to command presence, crew communication, and tactical patience.

Both men offer hard-earned insights:

-   Risk must be matched with purpose.   If you wouldn’t take your crew into a fire, why are you going in alone?

-   Communication matters.   Tactical plans, expectations, and crew roles must be clearly defined before boots hit the ground.

-   Training saves lives.   From understanding modern fire behavior to wearing the right PPE, small details make all the difference.

-   Ego kills.  Staying humble and asking questions—especially about tactics, gear, and risk—is what keeps us learning and alive.

This episode isn’t just about one fire; it’s about how we grow as firefighters and leaders. It’s a reminder that every incident, even the ones we think are routine, deserves our full attention and respect.

Stu and Marcus both came out of that experience with a deeper understanding of what it means to lead, follow, and survive in the fire service.

You can find the Fireground Fitness podcast wherever great podcasts are located. So, search it out and subscribe. Your feedback is powerful and greatly appreciated. Go to apple podcasts, subscribe, rate and review the podcast or shoot me an email!

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Episode 109 – Embracing Change with Chris Sleigher

In this episode, we’re joined by Battalion Chief Chris Sleigher—who spent 17 years as a captain and isn’t afraid to shake things up. We dive into why change in the fire service can feel like pushing a boulder uphill, and why staying curious (instead of just comfortable) is key to evolving our profession.

Chris shares his take on how change should be rooted in evidence-based practices—not just tradition or opinion—and isn’t shy about discussing some of the more controversial ideas he’s brought to the table. From challenging long-held policies to rethinking operational norms, this conversation gets real.

It’s a healthy, thought-provoking, and honest chat that’ll leave you thinking about how we lead, adapt, and grow. Give it a listen and enjoy.

A little more about today’s guest…

Chris and his significant other, Joanna, have four kids. He is the father of two girls, Mackenzie and Blake, and his bonus family members, Jenna and Chase.  

Chris is a battalion chief with the Mesa Fire Department in Arizona. With over 26 years on the job, he has held the ranks of firefighter and engineer and served as Captain for over 17 years. Chris is also a lead instructor with Fire By Trade and has taught at numerous fire conferences, including Firemanship, Mile High, HROC, North Florida Expo, New England FOOLS, Mid-west Area Fire Academy, Lake Effect, Command and Courage, Back Step, Arizona State Fire School, and several others. As the former president of Firenuggets, he has facilitated over twenty outside classes ranging from leadership to interior firefighting, along with four major fire conferences, and collaborated with David Rhodes and Fire Engineering to complete the Book of Andy Fredericks. Chris excels in engine company operations, drawing on his diverse experiences handling everything from single-family homes to high-rise buildings.

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You can find the Fireground Fitness podcast wherever great podcasts are located. So, search it out and subscribe. Your feedback is powerful, and greatly appreciated. Go to apple podcasts, subscribe, rate and review the podcast or shoot me an email!

IG: thefirenuggets

IG: FireByTrade

YouTube: firenuggets

FB: FireNuggets

FB: Fire by Trade

On the web: https://www.firenuggets.com

and https://www.firebytrade.com

Email:  [email protected]

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In episode 108 our guest, Steve Orsini, shares his passion for firemanship and the work of being a firefighter. His message, summarized in my words are; be better, study your craft and take your job seriously. Orsini has served in the coast guard, as a firefighter on the east coast and now out here in the Valley of the Sun; he is on a mission to share his commitment to firemanship and service. We discuss all of this and so much more, please enjoy.

A little more about today’s guest…

Steve Orsini, 19 years in the American fire service, Hazmat / TRT tech, Recruit Training Officer. Taught west side and valley hazmat classes as well as dangers and mitigations of EV and stored energy fires. VP of the Copper State F.O.O.L.S., host of the Copper State Firemen Podcast. Newly Married to my soulmate, Holly 1-24-25!

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You can find the Fireground Fitness podcast wherever great podcasts are located. So, search it out and subscribe. Your feedback is powerful, and greatly appreciated. Go to apple podcasts, subscribe, rate and review the podcast or shoot me an email!

IG: Copperstatefools

IG#2: Copper_state_firemen_podcast

FB: Copper State F.O.O.L.S.

Email:  [email protected]

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