The Future Is Bright Podcast

"Most people thinking about performance think about managers, products, and research. But it's also valuable to have a certain kind of shareholder," says Larry Cunningham.

Larry Cunningham, special counsel at Mayer Brown, has had a truly extraordinary career, rubbing shoulders with billionaires, sitting on the boards of large public companies, and writing 20 books. Larry recently joined Mayer Brown, a top law firm known for its strategic business model and commitment to sustainability and growth. In his role, Larry advises boards of public companies on corporate governance, leveraging his extensive experience and expertise in the field. His focus on long-term and quality shareholders aligns perfectly with Mayer Brown's philosophy, making it a natural fit. In addition to his work at Mayer Brown, Larry sits on the boards of several prestigious companies, including Constellation, Markel, and Kelly Plus Partners. These companies, known for their exceptional returns and commitment to autonomy, embody the values that Larry has championed throughout his career. His involvement in these boards allows him to contribute his wealth of knowledge and insights, further enhancing their success.

Throughout the episode, Larry's dedication to finding the right fit and adding value is evident in his approach to board service and his advice to others considering similar roles. Larry's journey serves as a reminder that with the right mindset and a commitment to excellence, one can achieve great success and make a meaningful impact in their chosen field.

Quotes:

• "What I liked about university life was exploring ideas and debating ideas and being able to write basically on any topic that I wanted. And all three of those schools, BC, GW & Cardozo, supported that. It was very important to me." (20:59 | Larry Cunningham)

• "We said, let's try to relate shareholder quality to, I think we ended up looking at 25 different important features of corporate life. Stock price volatility, we looked at brand strength, we looked at market share, we looked at stability of earnings, a variety of other things. We looked at very specific things like and from sort of the shareholder side, like board composition, attendance at shareholder meetings, quality of the shareholder letters that the CEO writes. And again, all that stuff is we ended up putting it all in pretty much one book called Quality Shareholders. And it's fascinating stuff. And it's more appreciated now than it used to be. But it's still a kind of a niche area." (29:33 | Larry Cunningham)

• "I feel like I add value. I feel like I'm contributing something positive." (40:35 | Larry Cunningham)

Links

Connect with Larry Cunningham:

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-cunningham-68b7574b/

Mayer Brown web bio https://www.mayerbrown.com/en/people/c/lawrence-cunningham?tab=overview

Amazon Author website and Books for sale:

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IYVE0M

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Sandra Cohen returns to "The Future is Bright" podcast for part two of her interview with Chris and to tell the story of how she became an executive compensation attorney at Cohen & Buckmann pc. Her journey was a steady upward trajectory where her fierce sense of independence and ambition served her well at every step. A Midwestern girl, she moved to New York City right out of college, looking for a more cosmopolitan experience. Within five days, she secured a job in HR at Manufacturers Hanover thanks to an informational interview with a Washington University alumnae.

Much of her business still comes from relationships she formed years ago, and Sandra advises young lawyers on long-term business development, taking initiative to form groups, and establishing yourself early on as a thought leader. Those with more experience should individuate themselves so that they aren't as reliant on their boss's view of their work. She explains what her job is and is not, what she still loves about it years later, and the unique challenges of the position.

Recognizing that most executives in HR were lawyers, she enrolled in Yale law and upon graduating got a job with the Canadian branch of Osler, Hoskin and Harcourt. Though she saw prime examples of female leaders at this firm who were able to admirably balance work and life, sometimes, Sandra confesses, it's not balanced at all. As she tells her students at NYU, for the sake of both your personal and professional success, choose your spouse wisely.

In between family and work, it's important to make time for fun. Hear Sandra discuss her hobbies– including a dedicated equestrian practice–and how she makes the best of New York's incomparable nightlife.

Quotes

• "I'm still fascinated by the psychology of it, how groups work and how office politics work. And that still informs part of my job as an executive comp, attorney, helping organizations find what's the right incentive for their company, and why are they pursuing the stock option plan, do they have the other pieces other than money also in place?" (7:31 | Sandra)

• "Find something that interests you enough to write about and talk about, so that you have shown thought leadership, create your own blog, if your law firm doesn't have one, it doesn't matter. Write on LinkedIn, you don't have to get published by a major publisher to show that you know what you're talking about." (22:11 | Sandra)

• "It's not who you know, it's who knows you." (23:00 | Sandra)

• "I think business development is really like watering a tree…And if you want to be sort of strategic and calculating about it, it's like, okay, how do I get more people to have known me a long time." (23:34 | Sandra)

Links

Connect with Sandra Cohen:

Website Bio https://cohenbuckmann.com/sandra-w-cohen

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandracohenesq/

Top Seven Questions Executives Should Ask About Private Company Stock Options

https://cohenbuckmann.com/insights/2020/7/13/top-seven-questions-executives-should-ask-about-private-company-stock-options

Profits Interests 101: A Crash Course in Profits Interests

https://cohenbuckmann.com/insights/2022/7/27/profits-interests-101-a-crash-course-in-profits-interests

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"The most common thing I hear nearly every day on negotiations is, I hate negotiating my compensation. I usually ignore it, and now I've got this new offer or I'm getting a promotion." says executive compensation expert and attorney at Cohen and Buckmann, Sandra Cohen.

Sandra boasts over 30 years of hands-on experience, guiding top-tier professionals through pivotal moments in their careers. Listeners will gain an invaluable education as Sandra breaks down a job offer. Key components are highlighted including short-term and long-term compensation, sign-on bonuses, restrictive covenants, and the all-important severance protection. Sandra provides guidance on which questions to ask and when to broach specific topics.

For those with an eye on equity as part of their compensation package, Sandra delves deeper into its complexities. She touches on the unique advantages and potential pitfalls between the equity offerings of public and private companies. Sandra offers key insights on navigating these differences, including how to evaluate the true value of such equity, understanding vesting schedules, and the implications of liquidity events such as an IPO or acquisition. Armed with this knowledge, listeners can better assess the weight and worth of equity in their compensation negotiations.

A standout segment in this episode tackles termination and severance clauses. Rather than shying away, Sandra advises listeners to approach this head-on during the hiring process, positioning it as an essential part of risk management and job security. She offers strategies for handling potential challenges such as changes in company leadership or shifts in job roles, and points out crucial considerations for options in private companies.

This episode is an essential guide for anyone stepping into a C-suite negotiation. With Sandra's advice, you'll be better able to advocate for yourself or partner with an executive negotiation attorney to secure the best compensation package possible on your behalf.

Quotes:

• "The number one thing you need to do is to find your original employment offer and save it at home, the signed one, because that is when somebody is already fired, it's hard to know where the starting place is. Please save your documents. (7:00 | Sandra Cohen)

• "You can gain confidence going into a compensation negotiation with some data, with good data about what should the market range for this job be. There's always a range. It's a little easier to negotiate by talking about ranges, but make sure you're comfortable with the bottom of your range because as soon as you give a range, that's going to be the place that they start." (28:51 | Sandra Cohen)

• An arbitration clause can be from three sentences to a page or two about how the arbitration is going to go. But the one thing that I might add on behalf of an executive is, okay, we'll do arbitration but the employer is going to pay the arbitrator's fee. That's actually more expensive than you would have thought paying an arbitrator. (48:15 | Sandra Cohen)

• I think banning non-competes is kind of a mistake but I'm of two minds on it because at the executive level it's something you can offer to contract for more money. If you are one of those key people with key secrets that is a legitimate business interest to keep you from working for our competitor, that could be a valuable thing that you can get paid for and if they're banned, it's value that should be contracted for that's sort of disappearing. (50:23 | Sandra Cohen)

Links:

Connect with Sandra Cohen:

Website Bio https://cohenbuckmann.com/sandra-w-cohen

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandracohenesq/

Top Seven Questions Executives Should Ask About Private Company Stock Options

https://cohenbuckmann.com/insights/2020/7/13/top-seven-questions-executives-should-ask-about-private-company-stock-options

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"According to Dan Binstock, successful partnerships rely on key factors such as people, practice, compensation, and confidence."

Join Chris Batz and Dan Binstock, a partner at Garrison & Sisson in Washington, DC, as they discuss the reasons why law partners decide to leave their current law firms. Dan outlines the top four reasons behind partner transitions, including concerns about firm leadership, inadequate practice support, compensation and profitability issues, and a lack of confidence in the current firm. Chris and Dan provide an in-depth analysis of each of these factors, offering valuable insights for partners who are contemplating a change.

During the conversation, Dan draws from his extensive experience to shed light on the complexities of these issues. He also shares advice for those interested in acquiring law firms and emphasizes the importance of thorough due diligence when selecting a recruiter. With his background as a legal recruiter and his past role as the president of the National Association of Legal Search Consultants, Dan brings a wealth of insights into the intricate dynamics of law firm partnerships.

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the driving forces that lead partners to explore new opportunities and suggests strategies for firms to address these concerns more effectively. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the motivations behind partner transitions and to learn how firms can create an environment that addresses these factors constructively.

Quotes:

• "The four reasons I think partners move come down to people, practice, economics, and lack of confidence." (02:34 | Dan)

• "90% of the problems that partners are facing boil down to people problems that are disguised as other things." (03:28 | Dan)

• "The bigger the firm, the more complex the leadership issues become." (07:40 | Dan)

• "Compromising on values to keep high-earning partners can create tension within the firm." (08:41 | Dan)

• "Partners need to be cautious about recruiters who may submit their information without permission to multiple firms." (37:50 | Dan)

Links:

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Company Website: https://g-s.com/dc-legal-recruiters/dan-binstock.php

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com

National Association of Legal Search Consultants: https://nalsc.org/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"For mergers to be successful, there really has to be a strategic reason on both sides that is well thought out by both parties, regardless of who makes the approach to whom," explains Gary Miles, President and CEO of Miles Partner Placement, an elite partner placement group movement and merger boutique. Today, Gary speaks with host Chris Batz about recent law firm merger activity, future trends for corporate law firms, and the ABA rule 5.2.

Gary explains that in his opinion a successful merger is one which has a high level of retention over the time the partnership was brought on along with increased metrics from the combined entity over time. In order to achieve this success, there needs to be a very strategic reason for the merger on both sides that is fully thought out prior to even letting the public know. Recently mergers have been being made more public, hitting the media well before details are truly ironed out. This is surprising as in the past firms were much more careful about stopping the leak of information. As for the future, Gary believes that with the client market heading more toward globalization, that smaller entities will need to consider merging or allowing themselves to be acquired in order to achieve rapid growth. Consolidation happens in businesses every day and the same is beginning to be seen with law firms.

Law firm mergers tend to get a lot of attention and it can be useful to have the details completely ironed out before word hits the press. When judging whether a merger is successful or not, it is important to look at least 5 years down the road to really understand where the metrics sit for the combined entity. With a market push toward globalization, law firm mergers are likely to be more and more common in the coming years.

Quotes

• "For mergers to be successful, there really has to be a strategic reason on both sides that is well thought out by both parties, regardless of who makes the approach to whom." (7:33 | Gary)

• "I term a successful merger, from my perspective, I'm not using some sort of, you know, defined industry standard, but a high level of retention over time of the firm partnership that was brought on. Increased metrics from the combined entity over time." (11:59 | Gary)

• "There's consolidation happening every day, law firms depend upon it in terms of revenue." (19:15 | Gary)

• "A lot of times what gets in the way most often of deals is either the outright adversity or the quote, unquote major client business conflict that often exists." (37:20 | Gary)

• "In our country's history, money usually wins out. Capital will find a way to win out." (38:51 | Gary)

Links

Connect with Gary Miles:

Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Gary Miles' LinkedIn Profile:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"For too long DEI work has been focused on changing individual hearts and minds, versus the organization taking on responsibility and frankly, modifying behavior without the need for personal buy-in," explains Alexis Robertson, Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Foley & Lardner, as well as host of Foley's Path & Practice Podcast. There has been great improvement in DEI at law firms regarding recruitment, but there is still a long way to go when it comes to employee retention and promotion. Today, Alexis discusses where current law firm DEI efforts are working and where improvements can still be made.

When people think about DEI, their first thought is often to diversify their recruiting pools. The issue with thinking about it this way is that it oversimplifies the problem. Diversity, equity and inclusion really need to be completely plugged into every people facing function within an organization. It cannot be just a one and done type of DEI training or a party for Black History Month. Those can help, but only when used as part of a larger systematic DEI implementation throughout the whole organization. If law firms want to enact real lasting change that creates a better, more inclusive work environment for all employees, they need to look beyond recruitment and into their overall systems and values.

Although there has been a lot of positive change in the DEI space within law firms, there is still a long way to go when it comes to creating inclusive workplaces. Organizations who are truly committed to DEI have to look closer at retention and employee development. Recruiting diverse employees is not enough because if the actual workplace culture is not aligned with DEI values, those diverse employees will not stay with the company.

Quotes

• "A lot of times with diversity, the first thing anyone thinks about is recruiting." (24:49-24:52 | Alexis)

• "What I'm doing is figuring out how our organization can be great for all people. And I think it's important to start framing things that way because it can feel more inclusive." (26:15-26:29 | Alexis)

• "What we really need to focus on as it relates to those historically underrepresented or even systematically excluded groups are the things that relate to retention." (27:00-27:09 | Alexis)

• "We've seen change. The problem is, if you extrapolate it out over another 50 years, we're not going fast enough for it to get to where we'd like it all to get to within our lifetimes." (28:56-29:06 | Alexis)

• "For too long DEI work has been focused on changing individual hearts and minds, versus the organization taking on responsibility and frankly, modifying behavior without the need for personal buy-in." (31:04-31:15 | Alexis)

Links

Connect with Alexis Robertson:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexisrobertson/

Her Foley page:

https://www.foley.com/en/people/r/robertson-alexis

The Path & Practice Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-path-the-practice/id1523076918

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

With the fast pace that Generative AI models like Chat GPT have been expanding and improving, it has become quite clear that major disruptions are on the way for every single industry. And the legal industry is likely to be the first to face major disruptions due to these technological advances. Today, Mary O'Carroll,Chief Community Officer at Ironclad, lnc., and Craig Katerber, Chief Legal and Corporate Affairs Officer at Budweiser Brewing Company APAC, discuss generative AI and the impacts they expect it to have on the legal services industry. They also spend time talking about LegalOps, scaling teams, modernizing legal departments, and the benefits of LinkedIn.

The landscape of Generative AI already looks very different from how it looked six months ago, and even six weeks ago. It is a rapidly growing technology and is making its way into every industry. This is a very exciting opportunity, especially for creative people who are just beginning to play with the tools and seeing what could be possible. The legal industry is a relatively slow moving one with very outdated processes and an unchanging law school curriculum. Generative AI could bring much needed updates to these areas and propel legal professionals toward a better, more streamlined and efficient way of doing business. Although some people may be fearful of this new technology or worry that it will replace them, there are immeasurable benefits to keeping an open mind and embracing this new way of approaching business.

With Generative AI, the old way of doing things is no longer going to be acceptable. The legal services industry in particular is slow to change and many people are still working out of offices with old fashioned filing cabinets and outdated processes. This advanced technology is a great opportunity for people to re-evaluate their current systems and make much needed improvements.

Quotes

• "One of the biggest catalysts for hiring a legal operations person now is digital transformation." (18:23-18:28 | Mary)

• "This is a much bigger moment than a lot of people realize. Generative AI and large language models are going to have a huge effect on every part of our economy in every part of our world." (26:16-26:26 | Mary)

• "It's so much about empathy or trying to put yourself in the person's shoes about what they actually want or care about, and there's a huge amount of value there. And we'll see as AI goes, but that's a very human skill." (33:15-33:29 | Craig)

• "AI and efficiency has always been at odds with the billable hour, but you can't avoid this now, you can't do business as usual." (35:34-35:42 | Mary)

• "If there was ever a distinction of black and white between legal advice and non legal advice, it's going to be a lot more gray in the future." (36:47-36:54 | Craig)

Links

Connect with Mary O'Carroll:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryshenocarroll/

Connect with Craig Katerberg:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craig-katerberg-70a6373/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"You have to be yourself, but you have to pay attention to the audience that you're working with," explains Stewart Hirsch, managing director and business development coach. The issue with talking broadly about concepts like executive presence is that everyone has a different definition for what executive presence entails. The initial ideas for executive presence applied primarily to white men, but today's professional environments are much more multicultural and diverse. Today, Stewart Hirsch and Deanna Sheridan, Vice President and legal advisor, discuss executive presence and inner confidence.

Effective leaders exude executive presence and they do that by letting their inner confidence shine through by finding ways to be relatable to their target audience. They have to be open to being authentically themselves, yet tailor their approach to who they are interacting with. When people feel psychological safety at work, they are more likely to show up as their authentic selves. It's really difficult to feel confident when you are trying to hide portions of yourself from your colleagues. And when leaders lead by example and are authentic with their team members, then the rest of the team feels more comfortable being authentic as well.

Inner confidence takes time to develop and it can still be scary to put your authentic self forward, even in a psychologically safe environment. When you can read the room and adjust your actions and words based on your audience, that can help to increase not only your confidence in yourself, but also your colleagues confidence in you as their leader.

Quotes

• "Executive presence is just a label to define somebody's perspective on power and influence." (6:15-6:21 | Deanna)

• "It was crucial for me to learn from somebody else how to approach these conversations when I needed to adapt to what my audience needed to hear, because I couldn't put myself in their shoes." (15:49-16:03 | Deanna)

• "You have to be yourself, but you have to pay attention to the audience that you're working with." (18:20-18:25 | Stewart)

• "The shift to get that confidence is helping the person recognize that they're absolutely capable, they've done it before." (40:40-40:50 | Stewart)

Links

Connect with Deanna Sheridan and Stewart Hirsch:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dgsheridan/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stewarthirsch/

https://strategicrelationships.com/

Executive Presence: The Missing Link Between Merit and Success By Sylvia Ann Hewlett

https://a.co/d/e773o0B

Talking from 9 to 5: Men and Women at Work by Deborah Tannen

https://a.co/d/hQJIY7c

Play like Man Win like a Woman: What Men Know About Success that Women Need to Learn by Gail Evans

https://a.co/d/2iP3Fjs

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It was something that I had always wanted to do, because I always felt this inclination to stand up for folks who didn't have a voice," explains Michelle Patterson Wimes, SVP Chief Equity and Inclusion Officer at Children's Mercy Kansas City. Michelle began her professional journey as a teacher and then as a lawyer, thinking that was the best route to being able to help people. Along the way, she gathered experiences that made her the perfect candidate for working in DEI. Today, Michelle discusses her journey to becoming a Chief DEI Officer.

Michelle never let fear of trying something new stop her and has made several challenging career transitions throughout her journey. Her foreign language experience and proficiency in Spanish made her an excellent candidate for working with an international community. Then, as a lawyer, she found herself working in immigration law. Transitioning into DEI was a very natural progression with her experiences and goals, especially because a position for Diversity Director opened up at one of the firms she had previously practiced at. Wanting to be able to have a greater impact, she transitioned again, moving to another firm where she'd be able to create a professional development program in addition to the diversity and inclusion work. Then, the pandemic hit and another opportunity came around, this time with Children's Mercy in Kansas City. Attracted to the challenge and the opportunity to work in her local community, Michelle took a leap and began learning about equity and equality in healthcare.

Transitioning careers can be scary and very difficult, but also extremely rewarding. If you are in a position that no longer aligns with your values or does not offer opportunities for growth, it is useful to start planning an exit strategy. As Michelle says, life is too short to not enjoy what you are doing. Quotes

• "It was something that I had always wanted to do because I always felt this inclination to stand up for folks who didn't have a voice." (7:56-8:05 | Michelle)

• "If it's not meaningful, if it doesn't align with my values, and I'm just exhausted where I don't even have time or energy to do anything else, then to me, it's time to start planning your exit strategy." (29:40-29:52 | Michelle)

• "What they don't understand is that diversity should be interwoven into everything that you do." (36:36-36:41 | Michelle)

• "What happens a lot of times is that the existing leaders that are there feel like their territory is being encroached upon." (36:57-37:06 | Michelle)

• "What we're seeing in healthcare is a lot of accrediting bodies putting standards around health equity that before now did not exist." (46:43-46:53 | Michelle)

Links

Connect with Michelle Patterson Wimes:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellepattersonwimes/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It takes time to build that psychological safety, but I think it's a more important area than ever before in the modern workplace," explains Dennis Garcia, Assistant General Counsel of Microsoft. Today, Dennis and Kim Yapchai, former SVP, Chief Environmental, Social, and Governance Officer at Tenneco Inc., discuss their career advice for developing in-house talent.

Trust is something that needs to be earned over time, and creating a psychologically safe work environment is no different. With job turnover particularly high, it is especially important to find innovative ways to retain and nurture top talent within your organization. To develop your in-house talent, as a leader, it is important to be up front and open with your employees. This authenticity will help develop trust between leaders and teammates alike. Mentor the talent you have and give people opportunities to grow their skills. When employees feel understood, appreciated, and supported, they are less likely to look for outside career advancement.

Nowadays, employees, particularly those of the Gen Z and Millennial generations, are more likely to be attracted to jobs where they feel aligned with the company's values. By being authentic and up front from the very start, leaders can foster relationships with those employees who are the right fit for the work culture they are looking to create. Instead of trying to fight over the top talent in the pool, look in-house and put time into helping your current employees flourish.

Quotes

• "If people don't feel safe enough to speak up and be heard, the company loses out. You lose out on new ideas, on diversity of thought, and people letting you know when things are going wrong." (9:25-9:43 Kim)

• "It takes time to build that psychological safety, but I think it's a more important area than ever before in the modern workplace." (10:47-10:57 | Dennis)

• "It is harder when you don't see people face to face in the office, you have to find other ways to connect." (16:02-16:08 | Kim)

• "Build the network and your brand before you need it." (25:39-25:42 | Kim)

• "When you reach out to people and you try to build those relationships, it's not all about how they can help you. It's how can you help them." (29:10-29:18 | Kim)

Links Connect with Kim Yapchai: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-yapchai/ Connect with Dennis Garcia: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denniscgarcia/ Buy a copy of Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson: https://a.co/d/fP9z92s

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm