Full Episode On Curious Worldview

“In the next 25 years, the world will need more copper than in all of human history.”

Amendment - I said 3.2 billion kg of copper in opening question, I should have said 320 million kg. 

In this episode, journalist and author Vince Beiser returns to the podcast to discuss his book Power Metal, a sobering look at the metals that make modern civilization possible — and the extraordinary cost of extracting them.

We cover the story of copper — the wire of empire. Beiser reveals why humanity will need more copper in the next 25 years than we’ve used in all of history, and how that quest is reshaping geopolitics, the environment, and our very ideas of progress. From Chile’s drought-stricken Atacama mines to the e-waste yards of Lagos, Nigeria, we follow the real people and places behind our “clean-energy” future — and the dirty truths that power it.

We also unpack the rise of deep-sea mining, the billionaires behind it, and the tensions between state power, corporate ambition, and the planet’s limits. Along the way we meet Robert Friedland, Gerard Barron, Dan Gertler, and a cast of characters who prove that the world still runs on digging — and that the future will too.

If you liked The World in a Grain or stories about how our material world shapes our moral one, this conversation will hit home.

Topics: Resource wars, clean-tech paradox, deep-sea mining, copper shortage, China’s industrial strategy, EV economics, and how to reduce demand without going backwards.
Guest: Vince Beiser - author of Power Metal and The World in a Grain
Subscribe to his newsletter Power Metal Substack

The World In A Grain (Vince's First Appearance on The Curious Worldview in 2021) - https://open.spotify.com/episode/7rf8QskOPtzvp2g8tm3lMk?si=zxA1ycpKRViBFt5S3XTCLg

Timestamps.

00:00 – Intro: Vince Beiser & Power Metal
02:00 – Chile’s Copper Boom & the Atacama Water Crisis
07:00 – Congo’s Cobalt, U.S. Retreat, and Copper Geography
10:00 – The No-Free-Lunch of the Green Transition
12:30 – Lagos E-Waste Recyclers & the Hidden Cost of Recycling
19:10 – Deep-Sea Mining and the Billionaires Behind It
23:00 – The UN vs Trump: Who Owns the Ocean Floor?
33:00 – Robert Friedland, Steve Jobs & Congo’s Mining Empire
41:00 – Corruption, Crony Capitalism & Dan Gertler
47:00 – Commodity Volatility and State Intervention
52:00 – China’s Industrial Patience vs Western Myopia
55:00 – Rethinking Cars, Cities & Demand Reduction
58:00 – The Future of Resources — and Civilization Itself

Full Episode On Curious Worldview

Subscribe to Chris Arnade's Substack - https://walkingtheworld.substack.com/

Who is Chris Arnade!
He started as a physicist, earning a PHD from Johns Hopkins and then took to Wall St spending two decades on an elite trading desk at CitiGroup before disillusioning his well dressed allies to engage in the photography, walking and writing of the great and forgotten cities of this world. 
He is a best selling author, but as well… a best subscribed substacker!
'Chris Arnade Walks The World' is the publications name…
And in it, Chris lives up to the title. 
Japan, Europe, China, Australia, The Faroe Islands, Canada, the expansive US of A, Turkey, Korea, Indonesia even Uzbekistan (which gets a special mention in this podcast). Cities within all of these great nations and many more, Chris has trod and documented. 
His format is slow and empathetic. Chris will embark on several 20-30km journeys at his location, take photos and then report on his walk. 
I can’t remember how long I’ve been subscribed, although it feels like years, but the other day I woke up to an email which detailed Chris’s initial impressions of Sydney! I replied to the email right away, and just a few hours later was guiding him along the Malabar to Bondi trail. Steve and I - guiding Chris from the area I grew up to the most iconic beach in Australia. 
That was a special serendipity which came out of no-where and furthermore, led to this podcast today...

• 00:00 Introduction to Chris Arnade — physicist, Wall Street trader, turned global walker/writer.
• 02:00 First impressions of Sydney — “child of LA and London,” with beaches, pubs, suburbs, and good living.

Sydney Observations

• 03:40 Sydney’s trains: efficient, sprawling, but designed to avoid beaches.
• 06:00 Sydney friendliness vs. UK cynicism — “Australians are like puppy dogs, eager to please.”
• 09:30 Suburbs as “democratized manors,” good life for the average person, housing affordability issues.
• 13:00 Housing supply constraints, coastline beauty, and why Sydney isn’t as bad as people think.

Walking & Method

• 16:30 From physics & Wall Street to walking: walks as stress relief, learning, meditation.
• 20:30 Spreadsheet brain → toy models → refining worldview through walking.
• 22:30 Cities that defied expectations: Tashkent & Jakarta.

Global Perspectives

• 25:30 Africa’s challenges: Nigeria & Dakar as examples of dysfunction despite resources.
• 29:00 Australia’s weak ties with Indonesia, lack of Indonesians in Sydney, food culture, overlapping economic models.
• 33:30 Chinese-Indonesian business dominance — parallels to Jews, Lebanese, minorities elsewhere.
• 36:00 High-trust vs. low-trust societies: Japan as the archetype.

Culture & Writing

• 41:30 Why he avoids fame, prefers anonymity, but respects subscribers deeply.
• 44:00 Pressure to deliver as a Substack writer — treating it like a job.
• 47:00 Writing inspiration, uninspired cities (Bangkok), and the challenges of always producing.
• 53:00 Strong opinions drive traffic

Dignity & Underclass

• 55:00 “Dignity” project in the US — underclass and addiction.

Personal Life

• 56:20 Family and frugality
• 58:50 Why he doesn’t read other travel writers

Philosophy & Serendipity

• 01:04:50 Serendipity? “I don’t believe in coincidence.” 
• 01:07:00  Country he’s most bullish on
• 01:09:00 Next destinations

Full Episode With Sam Roggeveen On The Curious Worldview

Sam Roggeveen - The Echidna Strategy

Curious Worldview Newsletter - https://curiousworldview.beehiiv.com/subscribe

-----

Sam Roggeveen coined The 'Echidna Strategy' -  which is an on the nose metaphor for thinking about Australian Defence policy. 
Echidna’s are a tiny, cute little animals native to Australia. They are essentially harmless, they only eat ants and termites but despite their size and vulnerability, they have evolved this incredible defensive system. Their bodies are covered in long, spiky thorns thereby making them immune to pretty much all types of attacks that might come from animals higher in the food chain. 
So in a nutshell, Sam wants Australia to be more like echidna’s, a threat to nobody, but disastrous to anybody that should attack them. 
In the podcast we discussed Australian defense policy in a changing global landscape. How Australia can become a self-reliant power, the implications of China's military rise, and the evolving role of the United States in the region. 

Sam shares his thoughts on the importance of ambition in leadership, the potential for an Australian-Indonesian alliance, and the strategic mistakes of AUKUS.

Sam worked as an intelligence analyst at Australia's Office of National Assessments before he joined the Lowy institute where he now serves as the Director of the International Security Program, where he leads Australia's defence strategy, US foreign policy and Chinas military development. 
The opening few minutes of this are not the best audio, but after that it kicks into studio quality. This was recorded in person in Canberra, it is my pleasure to welcome Sam Roggeveen to the podcast…

Full Episode On A Curious Worldview Podcast

Pat McGee - Apple in China

Curious Worldview Newsletter - https://curiousworldview.beehiiv.com/subscribe

-----

Each year, Apple sells more than 100 million unit's of it's various products, with some factories capable of producing up to 500,000 iPhones (alone) per day. 
This scale of quality and quantity is not replicated anywhere else in history. And it's all down to the special and unique relationship between one of the world's largest hardware companies, Apple and the worlds largest manufacturer, China. 

Pat McGee wrote the book on this... 'Apple in China', and joins me for a discussion which explores the intricate relationship between Apple and China's manufacturing landscape. Tim Cook's pivotal role, the challenges of relying on China for production, and the unique conditions that have allowed China to dominate the manufacturing sector. Pat reflects on the geopolitical implications of Apple's strategy and the serendipitous nature of his writing process, culminating in a discussion about the future of industrial statecraft and the lessons learned from Apple's experience.

00:00: Pat McGee
02:52: Tim Cook's Role in Apple's Success in China
06:00: Apple's Reliance on China and Its Vulnerabilities
12:12: The Scale of Apple's Manufacturing and Its Implications
18:12: Foxcon & Terry Gou
24:03: China's Manufacturing Strategy and Apple's Role
29:59: China's Ambitions and Apple's Unintentional Consequences
39:50: The Journey of Writing The Book
44:05: Leaning Into Serendipity
51:31: The Impact of Apple's Industrial Strategy
58:59: Geopolitical Implications of China's Manufacturing
01:08:02: Doing Jon Stewart!

Full Episode - Curious Worldview Podcast

Arne Anderson, Three Tours In Afghanistan For The Swedish Military #46

Swedens Elite Police Unit, Piketen #146

Christopher Neijd Police Lieutenant in Södertälje & Southern Stockholm #165 

-----
Because of my old mate, Arne Andersson - I’ve been incredibly lucky to have gotten to know several of his old military buddies. There are those listed above...
And then there is my guest for this episode today, courtesy to the serendipity proximate to Arne…
Peter, whose full name will remain redacted - is the head of the isolation ward at Kumla prison, which is the largest maximum security prison in Sweden. We recorded this about 6 months ago, so I am very late to publish, but I hope you’ll agree that the contents are evergreen. Not tied down to any particular time and news, and therefore as useful now as it would have been then as it will be in 5 years time. 
Pete and I sat down together to record this one in Stockholm last late Autumn, it’s as many ins and outs of the prison system that I could think to ask Peter. This is an exhaustive list, but it includes inmate demographics, the impact of overpopulation, the complexities of rehabilitation, the psychological effects of prison on both inmates and staff. the crucial differences between the Swedish prison system other countries, and how it’s portrayed in the media, particularly regarding sentencing and the rehabilitation processes. the challenges of institutionalisation, the dynamics of inmate behaviour. Leadership and de-escalation techniques in managing inmate interactions, as well as the influence of gangs and ethnic divides within the prison system. Informal power dynamics among inmates, the prevalence of violence, self-harm, and the challenges faced by prison officers. The changing attitudes of younger inmates towards authority, the psychological impact of incarceration, and the ongoing issues of contraband and drug addiction. The discussion also touches on the responsibility of prison staff to understand and support inmates, the metrics used to evaluate prison conditions, and the societal perceptions of crime and punishment.
In between all that there is as well Peter’s good humour and the natural tangents much of that may draw you down…
00:00 - Who Is Peter & Intro
03:02 Demographics and Overpopulation in Kumla Prison
05:51 Crime Types and Inmate Behaviour
09:00 Rehabilitation and Sentencing in Sweden
11:59 Isolation Units and Mental Health
14:48 Challenges of Overpopulation and Violence
18:05 Administrative Costs and Efficiency
20:56 Psychological Impact of Isolation
23:53 Interactions with Inmates
27:04 Handling Manipulation and Trust
30:00 Sympathy for Inmates and Their Stories
32:48 Mental Health and Rehabilitation Challenges
35:56 Conclusion and Reflections on the Prison System
45:09 The Nature of Work in Prison
51:49 Rehabilitation vs. Punishment in Nordic Prisons
56:08 Institutionalisation and Its Effects
01:01:22 De-escalation Techniques in High-Stress Environments
01:08:15 Leadership in Correctional Facilities

More on the full episode here...

Gang Dynamics in Swedish Prisons
Power Dynamics in Prisons
Reality of Violence in Prisons
Self-Harm and Mental Health Issues
Prison Metrics and Crime Hierarchies
Religious Practices and Beliefs in Prisons

Curious Worldview (Spotify)

Curious Worldview (Apple)

Tim Butcher Episode (Blood River Congo) -

King Leopold's Ghost Book - https://www.amazon.com.au/King-Leopolds-Ghost-Adam-Hochshild/dp/0618001905

From 1885, for 13 years, one man, King Leopold II, owned, as his personal property, one of the largest pieces of geography on earth. The Congo is four times larger than France, it’s bigger than India, it’s bigger than Texas, Alaska, California & Montana combined - the equator runs right through it’s middle and makes it the second largest rainforest on the globe - it’s impossibly rich in resources, and desperately poor in economics. In those 13 years of private ownership, Leopold oversaw potentially one of the most brutal regimes of extraction the world has ever known. The population was estimated to have halved in those 13 years, more than 10 million deaths. It was an exploit in mass slavery, mass death, bodily mutilation and mass extraction. Ivory and wild rubber were in high demand, and so under the guise of media manipulation and PR mastery, Leopold convinced the world that these goods were in fact being traded with, rather than extracted from, the Congo. 
The horror, however, could only be concealed for so long. A fella by the name of Ed Morell who worked for a shipping company in Liverpool noticed the bounty of ivory and rubber arriving from the Congo, with only men and arms making the journey back. His suspicion grew, he found accounts from missionaries and others who had been, and mounted a campaign to undermine the constant wall of propaganda Leopold had financed.
In 1908, the Belgium state purchased the Congo off Leopold… where the country remained a colony of Belgium until 1960. 
And for a myriad of reasons, for which we address in the podcast, the Congo today is still on the back foot. Kinshasa, the capital city already has a bigger population than Paris, and is projected to be as much as 40,000,000 by 2050. The Congo today is among the most resource rich nations on earth, but among the least developed. It still attracts the same predation for extraction as it ever has, although all together less forceful and less violent
The man I speak with on the podcast today wrote the definitive history of this period. His name is Adam Hochschild, he’s an author, journalist and historian and wrote in 1998, 'King Leopold's Ghost'. 

Curious Worldview Podcast (Spotify) - https://open.spotify.com/episode/6vofLaGavfQEEGkkSmwlTi?si=0vc-V65-Qref_ZlZdj--tg

Curious Worldview Podcast (Apple) - https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/axel-humlesj%C3%B6-money-laundering-is-the-biggest/id1540424160?i=1000700665617

----

Axel Humlesjö is a Swedish journalist against which money laundering, the plumbing of offshore finance and the cancerous nature of dark money, continuously crash up against.
Axel was a part of the team that uncovered systematic money laundering activities with Swedbank in the Baltics. Part of the team behind the series - The Shadow War - which exposed Russian espionage activities in the Nordics and led to the expulsion of five Russian spies from Sweden. Many other stories as well, but of course co-author of his debut book, The Honey Trap which explores Swedbank's involvement in one of the world's largest money laundering scandals and details this extensive operation for how the Russian security service uses sparrows and other means to honey trap and acquire kompromat on a broad slew of people. Honey traps were used directly to illicit compromising material to infiltrate Swedbank.
This podcast goes into Axel’s views on the evolution of journalism in a globalised world, and the significant role that money plays in shaping political landscapes. He goes as far to say it is the single biggest societal issue facing Europe and how intertwined money laundering is with currying foreign influence. 
This was recorded in person in Stockholm with Axel last December, it was the last interview I recorded before I left the country.

Curious Worldview Podcast (Spotify) - https://open.spotify.com/episode/4EQW5Ylr4lrqLUyj5V0oiA?si=xWxWWkbbTUqoDN5JeyRLtw

Curious Worldview (Apple)

Philippe Gijsels Book - https://www.amazon.com/World-Economy-Trends-superinflation-hyperinnovation/dp/9401409013

-----
The following is with Philippe Gijsels, the Chief Strategy Officer at BNP Paribas Fortis - he co-wrote a book last year called The New World Economy in 5 Trends - which within, reveals much of the new map we now inhabit, especially in light of the perplexing chaos of spearheaded by America’s sloppy leadership in the last weeks. 
Philippe is an erudite bookophile and a banker, a combination that seems not uncommon among the best investors. He and I have been speaking since last year in anticipation of recording this podcast today. I hope you enjoy it. 
I wanted to get the interview into the meat of the book as quickly as possible, therefore, took more liberties with editing than I usually do and have excised a part of the podcast to the end of the discussion. The excised component  was an explanation and brief discussion on the idea of Reflexivity. 
Consider leaving this 5 stars on Apple or Spotify - nothing does more to drive the show to new viewers.

Curious Worldview Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Zs20Bl4ftN4XPHtxnVAVB?si=hJCvtqvMR-iFq-HLdYt7Rg

Youtube - https://youtu.be/MntDK3kWRek

Curious Worldview Newsletter - https://curiousworldview.beehiiv.com/subscribe
The following is with German political scientist, former beer brewer in the Congo, and author of How Tyrants Fall - Marcel Dirsus
Marcel interviewed coup leaders, dissidents and soldiers to write about the workings and malfunctions of tyrants. Because while the individual personas, eccentricities and reputations might make them all distinct from one another, there are more threads that draw disparate dictator's together than don’t.
I think this excerpt from the book sums up the essence of Marcel’s work and as well, the themes in todays podcast.
“The most powerful tyrants on earth are condemned to live their life in fear. They can make their enemies disappear with a snap of their fingers. They, their families, and their acolytes may control entire countries from the luxury of their palace, but they also have to spend their every waking hour plagued by the fear of losing everything. No matter how powerful they become, they cannot pay for or order that fear to disappear. If such tyrants make one wrong move, they will fall.”
So the interview is about the workings of various tyrants around the world, both living and dead. 
I ask Marcel about applying a prisoners of geography lens to this topic, china and the case for dictators not being all bad all the time, marcel’s rogues gallery of tyrants and as well, Marcel offers a raw reflection of the potential future of authoritarianism in the USA particularly because of the astounding moves made so far under trump. This was recorded the day after the US inauguration.
🍻☕: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/ryanhogg
Follow me on Instagram – @ryanfhogg

Curious Worldview Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/episode/5FiugCTBQaobrZfhz3NDOR?si=c1soXluYQ4SJ6THNvxG7tw

Youtube - https://youtu.be/G6EIYURdSOA
Curious Worldview Newsletter - https://curiousworldview.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Robert Kaplan has been sighted as one of the most influential geopolitical thinkers of the modern era. The Revenge Of Geography, Surrender or Starve, Balkan Ghosts, Asias Cauldron, The Tragic Mind, and so on, I counted 18 books so far with his most recent being - Waste Land: A World In Permanent Crisis.
I’ve listened to many of his books at this point, I found Revenge Of Geography a few years ago whilst preparing for my interviews with Tim Marshall. 
🍻☕: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/ryanhogg
Follow me on Instagram – @ryanfhogg