The Gig Work Podcast

Over the years, I have had countless discussions about, and conducted research into, platform work. The conversation often revolves around the same question: are platform workers employees or self-employed workers? It is an understandable question. After all, legal classification determines rights, obligations, representation and protection.

But the longer I follow this market, the clearer it becomes that this focus can sometimes be a pitfall. The employment contract may well be the norm for labour markets in the Global North, but in the ‘Majority world’, where 80 per cent of the global population lives, this is not the case. And whilst lawyers argue over definitions, the market is changing at a rapid pace. Platforms adapt procedures and introduce new schemes before regulations even take effect. Furthermore, in practice I see that a shift from freelancer to employee yields less for the worker than hoped for. Platforms evade their responsibility by working with subcontractors or simply ignore a court ruling.

How can you make binding agreements with platforms regarding minimum standards for platform workers? This question was central to a recent WageIndicator webinar, where researcher Alex Veen from the University of Sydney and Jack Boutros from the Transport Workers’ Union (TWU) in Australia shared their experiences. Their story offers an interesting alternative perspective. Not because Australia has found the answer – nobody has got that far yet – but because there, partly due to the nature of the organisation of the labour market, a fundamentally different choice has been made.

A minimum tariff for Uber drivers sounds appealing, but it could significantly disrupt the market. Researchers at Delft University of Technology used computer simulations to predict the effects. The conclusion: a fair wage is possible, but it requires bold political decisions. In this episode of The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation, I spoke to researcher Farnoud Ghasemi about the findings and the unintended consequences that a seemingly simple measure can have.

In The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation, Martijn Arets talks to Lena Simet from Human Rights Watch about the downsides of platform work and ways to develop effective policy. “Technology for organizing work has developed at lightning speed, but legislation to protect workers’ rights on platforms is hopelessly behind.”

How can we ensure that platform companies in the gig economy behave as responsible employers and clients, rather than greedy intermediaries who make ever-increasing profits and pass the risks and costs of doing business on to workers? Trade unions, labor organizations, and governments around the world are looking for a solution to this problem.

This includes Human Rights Watch, an international organization that investigates human rights violations worldwide. In recent years, senior economic justice advisor Lena Simet has been specifically studying the rights impact and economic fairness of platform companies on workers. I spoke to her about her research on The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation. Her conclusions provide a good overview of developments and opportunities from a global perspective.

During my visit to the Africa Jobtech Summit in Nairobi, I spoke with Michelle Hassan, director of the Jobtech Alliance. In The Gig Work Podcast of the WageIndicator Foundation, she talks about the unique challenges and opportunities of platform work and Job Technology in southern Africa.

In the discussion about platform work, I keep bumping into a big dilemma. Online platforms offer a fast -access solution for work and income in the short term. At the same time, they often fall short in providing good working conditions, sustainable careers, and future perspectives. In my opinion, this tension is the most important challenge for the future of work. How do we solve it?

Frida Mwangi knows all about it. She made the transition from housewife to platform worker, and then went on to become an entrepreneur and union leader. As a founding member of the Kenya Union of Gig Workers (KUGWO), she champions the rights of Kenyan platform workers. Her lessons are relevant not only for Kenya, but for the platform economy worldwide. I spoke to her for a new episode of The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation during my visit to Nairobi, Kenya.

Access to financial services is an issue for many self-employed workers and gig workers. In this episode, I talk to the founder of a startup that has found a solution to this. Rollee makes it easier for platform workers to access financing. Until now, it has been difficult to obtain a loan without a steady monthly income. Lenders want a clear picture of income in order to calculate a credit score. Rollee unlocks data from platforms, banks, tax portals and other relevant data sources for lenders. This should lead to fair access to financial services for all workers. For this episode of The Gig Work Podcast by the WageIndicator Foundation, I travelled to Paris to talk to Ali Hamriti, founder of Rollee. Enjoy listening. 

Ephantus Kanyugi, co-founder of the Data Labelers Association, shares his journey from a finance graduate unable to secure a traditional job in Kenya to working in the digital labor economy. After struggling with informal and low-paid gigs, he joined CloudFactory in 2018 as a data annotator. Despite gaining skills in image, video, and map annotation, the work was unstable, with poor pay, no benefits, and monthly contracts. He later joined Remote Tasks, where initial high earnings declined sharply as tasks became more complex and underpaid. Workers often endured unpaid labor, exploitative surveillance, and lack of basic rights.

These experiences sparked the creation of the Data Labelers Association in early 2025, formed by ten experienced trainers aiming to represent the often-ignored majority of AI’s global workforce. The group now includes over 800 members. Their agenda includes pushing for fair pay, mental health support, worker upskilling, civic education, and a code of conduct for platform companies. Ephantus stresses the need to raise awareness among clients, policy makers, and the public about the hidden labor behind AI.

Artificial intelligence (AI) is and will remain dependent on human labour. The people who do the work behind AI systems are often invisible. This carries risks of poor working conditions, low wages and inadequate protection for workers. How does this situation arise, and how can we ensure that the many invisible data workers also benefit from technological developments? For the WageIndicator Foundation's Gig Work Podcast, I (Martijn Arets) spoke with Professor Antonio Casilli (Institut Polytechnique de Paris), author of the book Waiting for Robots, the Hired Hands of Automation.

They are invisible, ubiquitous and indispensable for the development of artificial intelligence (AI): ‘ghost workers’. Millions of people worldwide annotate, check and translate texts and images so that AI can understand and process the information. Who are these people and what drives them? What about their well-being? And what impact do their poor working conditions have on the development of AI? To learn more about this, I sat down with researcher Claartje ter Hoeven of Utrecht University for The Gig Work Podcast from the WageIndicator Foundation.

To get a better picture into unpaid labour and the impact work platforms have on it, I went to Leuven to talk to Valeria Pulignano. Under the Respect-Me project, she and her colleagues are researching unpaid work in the platform economy. We discussed unpaid labour, what impact platforms have on it and what the possible solutions are to reduce unpaid labour and the power balance between workers and platforms.

Links: 

• Publication page Respect-Me