Nat Eliason left a decade of independent building to take his first job in over ten years. He is now running Founder School, a new private high school in New York City that promises every graduate a million dollar business, or the family gets their $600,000 tuition refunded in full. The refund pool is backed by a billionaire's personal capital, not insurance. If the model fails, he writes the check.We go deep on why grades don't matter at Founder School (and why straight-A students are getting rejected), the 80% of entrepreneurial success Nat believes is genetic, the McCarthy line about fathers he can't shake, the real reason Gen Z is starting more companies than any generation before them (it's not money, it's status), and the sentence that made me sit up in my chair: there is no such thing as intrinsic motivation.If you have an ambitious teenager in your life, or if you are one, this one's for you.⏰ TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Introduction00:17 — The $1M Guarantee (And Why He Might Be Underpromising)04:22 — The Three Kinds Of Pushback He Gets07:58 — Why Straight-A Students Get Rejected21:34 — 80% Of It Is Genetic (Cormac McCarthy's Answer To Parenting)27:36 — The Real Reason Gen Z Is Starting Companies (Not The Money)36:08 — Business School vs. 4,000 Hours At Founder School43:53 — Why Alpha Might Fix Education Before The Government Ever Will54:45 — "There Is No Such Thing As Intrinsic Motivation"1:00:28 — His First Job In Over A Decade (And Why He Took It)1:04:25 — What Every Entrepreneurial Kid Should Do First🔗 GUEST LINKSNat EliasonX: https://x.com/nateliasonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nat_eliason/?hl=enLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nateliason/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/nateliasonBlog: https://blog.nateliason.com/Founder School: https://founders.school/Website: https://www.nateliason.comThe Grateful Podcast with Jack WagonerSubscribe for more deep conversations with thinkers, seekers, and soulful creators. 🙏📺 Listen on your favorite platform:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grateful-podcast-with-jack-wagoner/id1725776061Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5EsTEpQAjU4BxUrDoFyZ6bInnerVue - the software that closes your self-awareness gap through anonymous feedback from the people closest to you.→ https://yourinnervue.comUse code GRATEFUL20 for 20% off a Tier 1 assessment plus a complimentary coach-led debrief.🧠 More from Jack:► Website: https://jackwagoner.co► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner⸻🎙️ About Jack:I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking. My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.Stay grateful, stay hungry.

You don't get to choose what you believe. That's the standard line on confidence, stated as law by the biggest podcast in this space. Markus Kaulius disagrees, and he's got a $170M company to back it up.

I sat down with him right after his daughter closed out a room of authors at Book Thinkers 2026. Markus built Magnum Nutraceuticals from nothing and wrote the USA Today bestseller Play a Bigger Game. He decided he was a confident man before he had a single reason to believe it, then did the work that made it true.

We get into the mentor he chose before that mentor ever knew his name, the filter he uses to decide who's allowed to influence him, and the one rule he swears by for actually becoming who you say you want to be. If you've ever waited for proof before letting yourself believe something about who you are, this one's for you.

⏰ TIMESTAMPS

1:54 — Live at Book Thinkers, right after his daughter closed the room
3:02 — Why you have the lowest bar in history to get ahead
8:09 — The mentor who never even learned his name
8:25 — The cake analogy: how to actually choose who mentors you
10:22 — Zero confidence, 120 pounds, and the standard he set before he had one reason to believe it
12:57 — The Rule of Three
14:23 — I tell him about being 17, alone in France, and the emptiest I'd ever been
15:24 — The gratitude line I'm stealing for life

🔗 GUEST LINKS

Markus Kaulius
Website: playabiggergame.com
Instagram: @markuskaulius
Facebook: facebook.com/markus.kaulius
Book: Play a Bigger Game

Support the show

🧠 InnerVue — My go-to for tracking what's actually working in my own mindset practice:
→ https://yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 for 20% off Tier 1, plus a complimentary coach-led debrief.

🧠 More from Jack:

► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking. My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

The CEO of the largest positivity community on the internet says you're doing gratitude wrong.

I sat down with Kristen Butler at BookThinkers Live. Over 50 million people follow her work, and she'll tell you the gratitude journal on your nightstand is not doing what you think it's doing. Not a list. A somatic practice that regulates your nervous system in three minutes.

We got into the two weeks she spent in bed with black curtains that became the foundation of everything she built after. Toxic positivity vs. the authentic version. And a live moment where she affirmed the Duality of Gratitude and Ambition in her own words.

If you've been journaling three things every morning and wondering why nothing has shifted, this one is for you.

⏰ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 — Why writing gratitude out isn't the practice
01:31 — The 3-minute somatic version most people miss
03:18 — Toxic positivity vs. authentic positivity
07:20 — Does gratitude ever become automatic?
08:47 — Two weeks in bed, black curtains, and what changed
09:22 — What Hurricane Helene taught her about the practice
10:14 — The Duality of Gratitude and Ambition
12:07 — Why the present moment is where opportunity lives

🔗 GUEST LINKS
Kristen Butler
Website: https://positivekristen.com/about/
Power of Positivity: https://www.powerofpositivity.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/positivekristen/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/positivekristen/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/powerofpositivity
Amazon Author Page: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B09LX15B8B

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

Alan Stein Jr. spent 15 years courtside with Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, and LeBron James. He has written three books on high performance. His clients include Pepsi, American Express, Starbucks, and Penn State Football. He has been on over 200 podcasts.

In this conversation, he tells me what Kobe told him at 4AM in 2007, and how one line became the foundation of everything he now teaches about how to live.

We go deep on the 4 pillars of a fulfilled life, why winning isn't what you think it is, what he was doing wrong as a father for a decade, why consistency alone won't save you, and the exact method he uses to change any habit in 66 days.

If you are ambitious, you are grinding, and you are wondering whether the mountain you are climbing is the right one, this one is for you.

⏰ CHAPTERS

00:00 — Cold Open: What Kobe Told Him at 4AM
02:30 — Welcome + Why He Almost Became a High School Coach
06:45 — Tim Grover and the Mentor Who Showed Him What Was Possible
09:20 — The Performance Gap: Why Knowing Isn't Doing
11:40 — Specialize Late: Why Young People Should Try Everything First
15:10 — Commitment vs. Exploration: The Quadrant of Identity
17:30 — The Soft Skills AI Will Never Replace
21:15 — Why "Soft Skills" Is a Misnomer for the Hardest Work
24:00 — Coachability: The Skill That Separates Good From Great
27:20 — Comparison Isn't the Thief of Joy (When You Use It Right)
31:45 — What Kobe Told Him at 4AM in 2007
34:30 — Consistency Is a Superpower (But Only With Feedback)
38:15 — Kyle Korver: "I Don't Want to Get Good at Bad Shooting"
41:00 — The Queens Basketball Formula: 4 Things That Win 98% of Games
44:20 — J. Cole, Effort, and What's Actually in Your Control
47:45 — Winning Isn't It: The 4 Pillars of a Fulfilled Life
53:30 — "I Didn't Have This Clarity at 29 or 39"
56:10 — Steph Curry, Dell Curry, and the Gift Every Parent Can Give
1:00:45 — The Unseen Hours (And the 10 Years He Was on His Phone)
1:05:20 — Failure Is Never Permanent: The Coin Flip Goal
1:10:00 — The Nonchalance Trap Killing Gen Z
1:14:30 — If You Could Have Dinner With Any NBA Player Ever
1:18:15 — The 66-Day Method to Change Any Habit

🔗 GUEST LINKS

Alan Stein Jr.
Website: https://alansteinjr.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-stein-jr/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alansteinjr/
Books: Raise Your Game, Sustain Your Game, Next Play

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

Most people ask before they get a yes. The best ask after.

This weekend I recorded 23 podcast interviews in two days at Book Thinkers Live 2026, including Evan Carmichael, Kristen Butler, Marcus Kaulius, and Amberly Lago. I landed the live podcast at 19 because I broke a rule most people never think to break: I asked for more after the person had already said yes.

Nick, the CEO of BookThinkers, invited me to the event for free. Instead of saying thank you and showing up, I asked if I could interview every speaker there. He said yes. Then the real work started. The Amazon disaster the night before. The smashed light at 11pm. The moment mid-weekend when I almost quit. What Marcus told me to do in the auditorium that saved the day. And the moment Evan Carmichael pulled out his phone and filmed a pitch to Ed Mylet on my behalf.

If you've ever wondered why the ask you didn't make is costing you more than the one you did, this one's for you.

⏰ TIMESTAMPS

0:00 — 23 Interviews In 2 Days
1:12 — The Rule Nobody Teaches You
1:34 — How I Met Nick A Year And A Half Ago
3:15 — The Email That Changed Everything
4:15 — The Idea That Came Under Pressure
4:32 — Asking For More After The Yes
5:33 — Day One: Nine Interviews Blind
6:16 — The Moment I Almost Quit
7:20 — What Marcus Told Me To Do
8:10 — The Night Before Nearly Broke Me
10:08 — What Steve Jobs And Kobe Understood
11:01 — The Guest I Listened To In France Before I Had A Show
11:45 — When Evan Carmichael Pulled Out His Phone For Ed Mylet
12:33 — Why The Top Of The Pyramid Is Full Of Givers
15:04 — The One Thing To Take From This

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

In the 2008 Beijing Olympics, Michael Phelps dove into the pool for his eighth gold medal race, the race that would make him the greatest Olympian in history. Then his goggles started leaking. He couldn't see the wall. He couldn't see the finish. He won anyway. NYU psychologist Dr. Emily Balcetis explains what he did, why it worked, and how the same mental mechanism is what separates elite performers from everyone else.

Emily is one of the world's leading researchers on how what we want changes what we see. Her TED talk has nearly 4 million views. She has spent twenty years studying Olympic athletes, marathon runners, and highly ambitious people, and she has found something most of us get backwards: elite performers are not seeing more. They are seeing less, on purpose.

In this conversation we cover the science of narrow focus, why vision boards fail without an action plan, the Steve Jobs "reality distortion field" through the lens of behavioral psychology, why ambitious people who never savor a win eventually burn out, and the one question every high performer should ask before they set the next goal.

If you have ever set a mark, hit it, reset it higher, and wondered why nothing lands, this one is for you..

⏰ TIMESTAMPS

00:00 The Cold Open
01:08 Meet Dr. Emily Balcetis
01:45 The Leader In Your Head (And Why It Isn't You)
04:38 What Olympic Athletes Do That The Rest Of Us Don't
07:48 The Gorilla Your Eyes Refuse To See
11:18 Why Evolution Built Us To Miss Things On Purpose
13:07 Attention Addiction Machines
15:44 The Real Reason To Keep Your Phone Out Of Your Bedroom
19:14 Why Highly Ambitious People Almost Never Do This
24:03 Steve Jobs, The Reality Distortion Field, And What The Science Says
29:16 The Planning Fallacy
32:32 The Microsoft Study That Should Change How You Work
36:06 The Vision Board Lie
37:15 She Played Warp Tour At 18
40:53 The One Thing Michael Phelps Did That Nobody Else Did
44:30 Where To Find Emily

🔗 GUEST LINKS
Dr. Emily Balcetis:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilybalcetis/
NYU Faculty Page: https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/emily-balcetis.html
SPAM Lab (Social Perception Action and Motivation Lab): https://www.spamlabresearch.com/
Book, Clearer, Closer, Better: How Successful People See the World: https://www.amazon.com/Clearer-Closer-Better-Successful-People/dp/1524796468
TED Talk, "Why some people find exercise harder than others": https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_balcetis_why_some_people_find_exercise_harder_than_others

⸻

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

Chester Elton has spent 40 years teaching gratitude to executives. He's sold 1.6 million books. He's coached leaders at American Express, AT&T, the World Bank. But when his designer friend Ayse Birsel asked him "how have you designed time with your family?", his answer was three words: I don't do that.

The world's leading gratitude expert wasn't doing the thing he teaches. In this conversation, Chester shares the question that rebuilt his family, the Harvard 85-year happiness study advice that changed how he schedules his life, and the story of his father, who sang at his own funeral through a cassette tape he pre-recorded before he died.

We go deep on why the richest man in the world could never say "enough," why deflecting compliments is actually insulting the person giving them, why he carries gratitude stones in his pocket on every flight, and the single practice that separates a life worth living from a life that ends with an empty grave.

If you've been that person who is so obsessed with what they're building that they maybe, just maybe, leave behind the people you are closest to... this one is for you.

⏱️ Chapters:
0:00 — Cold open: my father sang at his own funeral
1:22 — Where warmth actually comes from (it's not what you think)
6:41 — "I want to look successful on the outside while sacrificing everything inside"
10:23 — The three words that ruined the richest man in the world
14:00 — What Harvard's 85-year happiness study actually recommends
16:57 — The Christmas Carol test: what's on your gravestone?
19:45 — The cassette tape my father left behind
21:26 — "I think the killer's in the room"
23:51 — Marshall Goldsmith: why deflecting compliments insults people
27:45 — The question that rebuilt his family
29:32 — Why he wears orange (the Aesop fable behind the brand)
31:49 — The gratitude stone he invented (and gives to strangers)
33:05 — Barbara the flight attendant
39:23 — The platinum rule beats the golden rule
53:55 — The one thing you can do today
54:37 — Sonder: everybody's got a story

🔗 Connect with Chester: Website: https://chesterelton.com The Culture Works: https://thecultureworks.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chesterelton/ Anxiety at Work Podcast: available on Spotify and Apple

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

Savio Joseph, Canada's Got Talent finalist, has built his entire career around one idea. The best hypnotist you know is already in your head. The words you say to yourself, the limits you accept before you ever try, the patterns you run without noticing. In this conversation, he walks me through how he sees that loop in other people, the auditions the world never saw before Canada's Got Talent, and what he had to unlearn to stop hypnotizing himself out of the life he wanted. At the end of the episode, he does something on camera that I still cannot explain.

He explains:
◼️ Why the best hypnotist you know is already inside your head
◼️ How your memory invents details that were never there
◼️ The expectation rule that keeps his happiness off the achievement treadmill
◼️ Why every limit you have was set before you ever walked through the door
◼️ The Canada's Got Talent rejections that came before the yes

⏰ TIMESTAMPS

00:00 — What He Actually Does (Hint: It Is Not Reading Minds)
01:33 — Why Wonder Is The Real Skill, Not The Trick
08:03 — How Mentalists Actually "Read People" (Hint: It Is Prep)
13:00 — Why Your Brain Fills In Details That Never Happened
17:58 — How Magic Saved A Kid Who Did Not Fit Anywhere
30:03 — Why The Safety Net Is The Trap
34:03 — The Got Talent Rejections Nobody Knew About
36:53 — The Expectation Pattern That Destroys Your Happiness
40:47 — Live: Reading Jack's Mind With A Deck Of Cards
51:29 — Why He Started Saying No To Big Opportunities
1:06:33 — The Best Hypnotist You Know Is Already In Your Head
1:08:33 — The Words You Say To Yourself Are Rewiring You
1:16:33 — The Final Reveal Trick (Watch What Happens)
1:21:03 — Stay Grateful, Stay Hungry

🔗 GUEST LINKS

Savio Joseph
Website: https://www.saviojoseph.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saviojosephtv
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saviojoseph/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saviojosephtv

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

Barnet Bain produced What Dreams May Come with Robin Williams. 
He wrote Jesus. He directed the Eckhart Tolle film Milton's Secret. 
He co-wrote The Celestine Prophecy.

I asked him what was really driving forty years of making the most spiritually charged films in Hollywood.

He said: "You busted me."

This conversation goes places Barnet has not gone in any other interview. The fable that explains why men quietly give up on their lives. The street performer in the park who showed him the bubble he had been living inside. The question he asked his wife that stopped him cold. The "you busted me" moment where an Oscar-winning producer admits, on the record, what every one of his films was really for.

If you have ever felt like you are doing everything right but something inside has gone quiet, this one is for you.

⏰ TIMESTAMPS

0:00 — Intro
0:47 — "I was the world": the awareness Barnet has carried since he was a little boy
6:40 — The shift in his forties that changed how he relates to every human alive
11:57 — "What if this is heaven?" The reframe that rewrites grief, blame, and self-pity
16:00 — How to live artfully (the three raw materials of a life)
20:36 — The street performer in the park who exposed the bubble we are all living in
24:30 — "Have I ever had an original thought?" The question he asked his wife
30:14 — Why men go numb (and why most never come back)
33:55 — Aesop's fox: the sour grapes mechanism that runs men's lives
41:30 — "You busted me": what every film he ever made was really about
47:55 — There are no shortcuts (the rose, the bulb, the thorns)
51:08 — The two masks: how to navigate the moment everything you thought you knew stops working
55:25 — Free friendship guide and the new book

🔗 GUEST LINKS

Barnet Bain:
Website: https://www.barnetbain.com
Book: How to Be a Friend in an Unfriendly World (anywhere books are sold)
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/barnetbain/
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/barnetbain

🎙️ Listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

☕ Magic Mind, my daily performance shot:
https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

💬 What is the bubble you are living inside? Drop it below. 👇

Support the show: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2302168/support

📺 Listen on your favorite platform:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grateful-podcast-with-jack-wagoner/id1725776061
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5EsTEpQAjU4BxUrDoFyZ6b

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.

Send us Fan Mail

The Grateful Podcast with Jack Wagoner episode 137

What if most of what you're doing to grow yourself isn't actually growing you?

Rich Diviney spent 20 years as a Navy SEAL commander. 13 deployments, 11 of them to Iraq and Afghanistan. He ran selection for one of the most elite SEAL commands in the world, deciding who was good enough to operate at the apex of human performance and who wasn't. He has written three books on optimal performance, trained leaders at Google, McKinsey, the 49ers, and McLaren, and built the SEALs' "Mind Gym" to teach operators how to train their attention as deliberately as their bodies.

In this conversation, he laid out almost everything most people are doing to grow themselves that isn't actually working. The gym isn't growing you if you don't dread it. Optimism alone is inert without action paired to it. Faith and confidence are not the same thing. The narcissism that gets you to elite places gets ripped away the moment you arrive. And when you stop pushing into real discomfort, you don't plateau. You start dying.

We go deep on what actually develops elite performers, why most leadership advice misses the layer beneath behavior, the neuroscience of the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, the trap of optimizing inside one domain, and why faith is belief without evidence and confidence is belief with evidence (and why both matter).

If you've ever felt like you're working hard at the wrong things, this one's for you.

⏰ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 — Cold open
1:45 — 21 years a SEAL. Where did this start?
2:15 — Twin brothers, Chuck Yeager, and the dream of flying jets
4:25 — Why he chose SEAL (the narcissism nobody admits)
7:30 — What replaces the narcissism once you arrive
8:21 — "Any narcissism that gets you to BUDS gets ripped away minute one"
11:24 — Victor Frankl, the choice point, and the duality of gratitude and ambition
15:30 — The neuroscience of feeling, thought, and action
17:07 — How founders and executives use this in everyday life
19:18 — Bob Proctor, paradigms, and the 97% of thoughts you repeat
22:00 — Driving, road rage, and the expectations we put on strangers
25:00 — "Don't be that guy" (the SEAL principle that travels)
27:30 — Sonder and radical empathy
30:33 — Why Simon Sinek's optimism alone doesn't work
32:37 — Realistic optimism, faith, and confidence
35:41 — Carl Sagan: faith is belief without evidence
38:06 — Trust is generative. What does that actually mean?
40:30 — The day I betrayed my own trust on a run
42:22 — The anterior mid-cingulate cortex (and the Andrew Huberman story)
43:54 — "When you stop growing, you start dying"
45:38 — Are you actually tickling the part of your brain that grows you?
47:38 — When your morning routine is making you weaker
50:14 — Looksmaxing, gym culture, and the trap of one domain
53:36 — A Maslow's hierarchy of hard things
55:30 — One question I should have asked

🔗 GUEST LINKS
Book: The Attributes - https://www.amazon.com/Attributes-Hidden-Drivers-Optimal-Performance/dp/0593133943
Website: https://theattributes.com
Instagram: @rich_diviney
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richdiviney

Support the show

InnerVue — a complete self-awareness tool
→ yourinnervue.com
Use code GRATEFUL20 to receive 20% off a Tier 1 InnerVue, along with a complimentary coach-led debrief of your report

☕ Magic Mind — My daily performance shot:
→ https://magicmind.com/wagoner20
Use code WAGONER20 for 20% off a package or 48% off a subscription.

🧠 More from Jack:
► Website: https://jackwagoner.co
► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jack_wagoner_/
► 1:1 Coaching: [email protected]
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Jack_Wagoner

⸻
🎙️ About Jack:
I moved to France alone at 16, started my first business at 17, and launched this podcast because I kept meeting people who had the answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking.  My philosophy: you can set massive goals while being deeply fulfilled right now. That's the duality of gratitude and ambition.

Subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.

Stay grateful, stay hungry.