The Ground Between Us

How do you find a record-breaking tree? And where are some of the biggest trees in Ohio hiding?

In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with Eli Colimore, known on Instagram as Big Tree Boss, about the search for Ohio's biggest trees and the growing community of people working to find, measure, and document these natural giants.

Eli shares how his interest in documenting big trees turned into a larger effort through Big Trees Ohio, a volunteer program that has helped grow the state's list of recognized 20-foot-plus trees from around 40 to nearly 1,000. We discuss how champion trees are measured, the role of technology like LiDAR, and some of the surprising discoveries that can be found in backyards, neighborhoods, and forests across the state.

Along the way, we get into the history of America's giant trees, the importance of old-growth forests, invasive species, and why learning to recognize the remarkable trees around us can be an important part of conservation.

Subjects covered include:

• The origins of big tree hunting and Big Trees Ohio

• How champion trees are measured and ranked

• Finding and documenting record-breaking trees

• The history and stories of America's giant trees

• Using LiDAR to measure tree height

• Surprising discoveries in neighborhoods and private properties

• Old-growth forests and their ecological importance

• Protecting remarkable trees on private land

• Invasive tree species and the value of documenting their spread

• Learning tree identification and getting involved in local tree-seeking groups

• The connections between technology, hobbies, and outdoor discovery

Find Eli Colimore and Big Trees Ohio:

Big Tree Boss: https://www.instagram.com/BIGtreeboss/

Big Trees Ohio: https://www.instagram.com/big_trees_ohio/

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Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

What does conservation have to do with conservatism? In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with David Jenkins, president of Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship, about the history of conservation in the conservative tradition and why protecting our natural resources should be a responsibility shared across political differences.

David draws on American political history, faith, economics, and his own experiences outdoors to make the case for responsible stewardship. From Theodore Roosevelt and the conservation legacy of earlier Republican presidents to today's political divisions over climate and energy, the conversation examines how conservation became such a partisan issue.

Eli and David also explore the practical and economic value of protecting natural resources. They discuss wetlands and their role in flood control and water filtration, renewable energy and market competition, the hidden costs of pollution, and how communities can suffer when short-term resource extraction takes priority over long-term economic and environmental health.

At its heart, this is a conversation about responsibility, common ground, and the obligation to leave the world in good condition for the generations that follow us.

Subjects covered include:

• Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship and its mission

• The history of conservation in the conservative tradition

• Theodore Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan

• Political tribalism and the changing politics of environmental protection

• Faith, the carbon cycle, and responsible resource use

• Wildlife, predators, healthy ecosystems, and hunting

• Why climate change became a partisan issue

• Wetlands and the natural services they provide

• Renewable energy, market competition, and electricity costs

• Pollution and the polluter-pays principle

• Public lands, outdoor recreation, and local economies

• The resource curse and the long-term consequences of extraction

• Alaska's fishing and tourism economies

• Grassroots engagement and bipartisan conservation

• Finding common ground through civil conversation

Learn more about Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship:
https://conservativestewards.org/

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Email: [email protected]

Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

What did the eastern United States look like before its wild landscapes were transformed by settlement and industry? And what does it take to bring native wildlife back?

In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with Andrew Moore, author of The Beast of the East: The Rise and Fall of America's Eastern Wilderness, about the history of eastern wildlife and the ongoing efforts to restore species and ecosystems across the region.

Andrew and Eli explore a past when bison, elk, wolves, mountain lions, and extensive old-growth forests shaped the eastern landscape. They discuss how Indigenous land stewardship influenced ecosystems, how European settlement and commercial exploitation transformed wildlife, and how modern conservationists are working to recover some of what was lost.

The conversation follows several major restoration stories, including elk in Kentucky, bison and prairie restoration in Illinois and Indiana, and red wolf recovery in the Southeast. Along the way, they examine the complicated relationship between habitat restoration and industrial damage, the importance of people like Doug and Dot Wade in conservation history, and the challenges of recovering wildlife in a landscape shaped by private property and human development.

This is a conversation about the history of eastern wilderness, the complexities of rewilding, and what it means to make room for wild species in the places we call home.

Subjects covered include:

• The eastern United States before European settlement

• Andrew Moore's The Beast of the East

• Indigenous land stewardship and humans as a force in shaping ecosystems

• The transformation of wildlife through settlement and commercial exploitation

• Kentucky elk restoration and the legacy of mountaintop removal mining

• Bison reintroduction and native prairie restoration

• Doug and Dot Wade and the discovery of rare prairie remnants

• Women and overlooked figures in conservation history

• Red wolf recovery, captive breeding, and the Endangered Species Act

• Coyote hybridization and the challenges facing red wolves

• Wildlife restoration on private lands

• The relationship between industrial development, habitat, and conservation

• What it takes to coexist with wild species in the modern East

Get the book: The Beast of the East

Find Andrew Moore's book through Bookshop.org:
https://bookshop.org/beta-search?bkshp-astro=t&keywords=beasts+of+the+east

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Email: [email protected]

Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

Want to try fly fishing but aren't sure where to start? In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with Christa Clasgens, owner of Silver Hen Flyco, about the gear, techniques, and skills that help beginners get started.

Christa brings her experience guiding anglers across West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Virginia to a practical conversation about everything from choosing a first fly rod and understanding different types of flies to learning how to cast and read a stream. They also explore why fly fishing can be such a welcoming and therapeutic hobby, along with the responsibility anglers have to handle fish carefully and protect the waters they depend on.

Whether you're completely new to fly fishing or transitioning from conventional tackle, this episode offers a foundation for getting out on the water and learning as you go.

Subjects covered include:

• Why people start fly fishing and what makes the community special

• The mental and physical benefits of fly fishing

• Rods, reels, fly line, leaders, and tippet explained

• Choosing a beginner rod and getting started without overspending

• Dry flies, nymphs, and streamers

• Essential accessories, including waders, nippers, hemostats, and nets

• Roll casts, overhead casts, and common casting mistakes

• Natural drifts, line mending, and fly presentation

• Beginner rigging setups, indicators, and dry droppers

• Reading streams and finding seams, riffles, rocks, and current breaks

• Catch-and-release fish handling and protecting trout

• Water temperatures, fishing regulations, and conservation ethics

• Respecting fishing spots and learning from local anglers

• Stream cleanups and ways to support conservation

Learn more about Christa and Silver Hen Flyco:
https://www.silverhenflyco.com/

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Email: [email protected]

Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with Olivia Miller, Interim Executive Director of the West Virginia Highlands Conservancy, about her deep connection to West Virginia’s Highlands and the long history of protecting the state’s wild places.

Olivia grew up in the heart of the Monongahela National Forest, surrounded by the mountains, forests, streams, and public lands that shaped her understanding of conservation. She and Eli talk about her family’s history in the Highlands, her journey back to West Virginia, and the work of an organization that has spent decades fighting to protect some of the state’s most important landscapes.

The conversation covers the history behind places like Dolly Sods and Otter Creek Wilderness, the challenges of managing heavily visited public lands, the Roadless Rule, mining and impacts to sensitive habitats, Corridor H, data center development in Tucker County, and the broader question of how West Virginians balance economic development with protecting the natural resources that make the state special.

Subjects covered include:

• Olivia’s connection to West Virginia’s Highlands
• Growing up in the Monongahela National Forest
• Family history and public lands
• The history of the West Virginia Highlands Conservancy
• Protecting Dolly Sods, Otter Creek, and other wilderness areas
• Stewardship challenges in heavily visited public lands
• The Roadless Rule
• Mining and impacts on public lands and waterways
• The Candy Darter and its habitat
• Corridor H
• Data center development in Tucker County
• Economic development and conservation
• Local control and community involvement
• The importance of West Virginia’s mountains and headwaters
• The future of conservation in West Virginia

Learn more about the West Virginia Highlands Conservancy:
wvhighlands.org

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Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with Corey Fisher, public land policy director at Trout Unlimited, about roadless areas, public lands, hunting, fishing, and the conservation work happening on the ground.

A quick note on production quality: We experienced some technical issues during this recording that affected both the audio and video quality in parts of the episode. We apologize for the less-than-ideal production quality and appreciate you bearing with us.

Corey explains what Trout Unlimited does as a nationwide grassroots conservation organization and how its network of roughly 400 chapters and 300,000 members and supporters works to protect and restore waters and fisheries across the country. The conversation explores why roadless areas matter, how healthy public lands support clean water and wildlife, and why hunters and anglers have an important role to play in conservation.

Subjects covered include:

• Corey's role as Trout Unlimited's public land policy director
• How Trout Unlimited's grassroots network works across the country
• The connection between public lands, clean water, and healthy fisheries
• Why roadless areas create opportunities for adventure and access to wild places
• Corey's early outdoor experiences hunting and fishing in southern Michigan
• A memorable roadless elk hunt in southwest Montana
• Why conservation organizations can be force multipliers for water and wildlife conservation
• The importance of hands-on conservation work
• The roadless rule and current public land policy
• Travel management plans and public land access
• Why public participation matters in the policy process
• The role hunters and anglers can play in conservation

Corey's perspective highlights how conservation happens both on the ground and through public engagement — from restoring streams and protecting habitat to participating in the decisions that shape America's public lands.

The USDA is currently proposing to rescind the 2001 Roadless Area Conservation Rule, which established protections for inventoried roadless areas on National Forest System lands.

If you want to learn more about the proposal or leave a public comment, visit the Federal Register:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/08/20/2026-16965/special-areas-roadless-area-conservation

Whether you support or op

Take Action: Roadless Areas

What do public lands mean to you?

Land Tawney joins The Ground Between Us for a conversation about public lands, conservation, hunting, fishing, and the experiences that connect people to the outdoors.

We talk about Land's conservation background, the importance of public lands, the role of grassroots engagement, and the policies that shape how these places are managed. Land also shares personal stories about how time outdoors can build character and discusses some of the challenges facing public lands, including the future of the Roadless Rule, climate change, wildfire, and forest health.

Subjects covered include:

• The importance of public lands for conservation and outdoor recreation
• Hunting, fishing, and character development
• Land's conservation background and work in conservation
• Grassroots activism and public engagement
• The "three D's": defund, dismantle, and divest
• Public-land policy and legislation
• The history and significance of the Roadless Rule
• Climate change, wildfire, and forest health
• Conservation funding and innovative funding mechanisms
• The future of America's public lands

The USDA is proposing to rescind the 2001 Roadless Area Conservation Rule, which established broad restrictions on road construction, road reconstruction, and timber harvesting in inventoried roadless areas on National Forest System lands. The public comment period has been extended through October 6, 2026.

You can review the proposal and submit a public comment through the Federal Register:

Roadless Area Conservation proposal and public comment page

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Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

Roadless Rule Public Comment

Public lands belong to all of us, but protecting them takes more than simply caring about them. It takes people willing to speak up.

In this episode of The Ground Between Us, Eli talks with Adam Kramer, founding executive director and CEO of Outdoor Alliance, and Nicole Brown, Outdoor Alliance's communications and public engagement manager, about public lands, the roadless rule, and why advocacy can still make a difference.

Outdoor Alliance brings together outdoor recreation communities from across the country, including climbers, mountain bikers, skiers, paddlers, and other outdoor enthusiasts. Adam and Nicole explain how that coalition works and why bringing different communities together can create a stronger voice for public lands and waters.

Subjects covered include:

• Adam and Nicole's personal paths into the outdoors

• How Outdoor Alliance was formed

• Bringing climbing, biking, skiing, paddling, and other communities together

• Why public lands are a public trust

• Public lands as places of recreation, stewardship, and democracy

• The recent push to sell millions of acres of public land

• The public response to those proposals

• What the Roadless Rule actually does

• Why roadless areas matter for habitat, recreation, clean water, and clean air

• The debate over roads and wildfire management

• The history of the Mining Law of 1872

• The Legacy Restoration Fund and repairing existing infrastructure

• Access for people with disabilities

• Why public comments and contacting elected officials can matter

• The importance of local organizing

• How people can get involved in public-land advocacy

The conversation ultimately comes back to a simple idea: public lands are only truly public when people participate in the decisions that shape them.

These issues were not discussed in this episode. I'm including them because they are current public-land policy developments that I want listeners to be aware of and active on.

Roadless Areas: The Forest Service has proposed rescinding the 2001 Roadless Area Conservation Rule. The proposal would return more management decision-making for inventoried roadless areas to local Forest Service officials. The public comment deadline is September 21, 2026.

If roadless public lands matter to you, read the proposal and submit a thoughtful public comment. The Forest Service says timely comments will be considered in developing the final rule.

Read the Roadless Area Conservation proposal and submit a comment

National Forest Travel Management: The Forest Service has also proposed changes to its travel-management regulations for National Forest System lands. If you care about public access, roads, recreation, and national forest management, read the proposal and consider submitting a public comment.

Read the Travel Management proposal and submit a comment

These proposals are separate from the conversation with Adam and Nicole, but they're part of the larger ongoing conversation about how America's public lands are managed.

Stay informed, participate in the public process, and make your voice heard.

Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

Current Public Land Issues

Public lands don't have to be sold to become effectively privatized. In this episode, John Leshy explains how changes in law, leasing, resource extraction, and land management can reshape who controls America's public lands, even when the land itself remains publicly owned.

John Leshy joins The Ground Between Us to unpack how America's public lands were created, why they matter, and how the fight over them has evolved. Leshy is an emeritus law professor at UC Law San Francisco and former Solicitor of the U.S. Department of the Interior, bringing decades of experience in public-land law, federal policy, conservation, and land management.

The conversation looks at the 2025 effort to sell millions of acres of federal land, why that proposal ultimately failed, and why Leshy believes the larger story goes beyond a traditional land sale. We explore "functional privatization," where long-term leases, statutory mandates, and changes to land-management policy can create increasingly durable private interests in publicly owned resources.

Subjects covered include:

• The history of America's public-land system

• Why public lands represent shared ownership and access

• John Leshy's career in public-land law and federal service

• The Colorado Plateau, Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, and Grand Canyon

• The history and legacy of the Mining Act of 1872

• The 2025 proposal to sell millions of acres of federal land

• Why the proposed land sale generated broad political opposition

• The concept of "functional privatization"

• How long-term leases can create property-like interests

• The role of federal agencies in managing public lands

• Logging, mining, leasing, and other forms of resource development

• Tribal stewardship and the history of America's public lands

• Why understanding public-land history matters when evaluating current policy

• How people can stay informed and participate in the public process

The following issues were not discussed in this episode. I'm including them because they are current public-land policy developments that I want listeners to be aware of and active on.

Roadless Areas: The Forest Service has proposed rescinding the 2001 Roadless Area Conservation Rule, which provides protections for inventoried roadless areas on National Forest System lands. The public comment period closes September 21, 2026.

If you care about roadless public lands, take the time to read the proposal and submit a public comment. Your voice can become part of the official rulemaking process.

Read the Roadless Area Conservation proposal and submit a comment

National Forest Travel Management: The Forest Service has also proposed changes to its travel-management regulations for National Forest System lands. These rules can affect how roads, trails, motorized access, recreation, and other uses are managed on national forests.

If these issues matter to you, read the proposal and consider submitting a public comment.

Read the Travel Management proposal and submit a comment

These proposals are separate from John's conversation, but they are part of the larger question of how America's public lands are managed. If you care about these places, stay informed, participate in the public process, and make your voice heard.

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Remember y'all, we're all standing on the same ground.

Current Public Land Issues

What makes a fish native to one place but introduced somewhere else? And how can moving a few fish in a bait bucket have consequences that spread throughout an entire watershed?

In this episode, I sit down with Cam Layne, a West Virginia fish biologist and Midwest Vice Chair of the Native Fish Coalition, to explore the incredible diversity of Appalachian fish and the complicated relationship between species, landscapes, and conservation.

Cam shares how his interest in fish began in Northeast Ohio and eventually led him into a career studying and protecting native fish. We talk about why Appalachia is such an important freshwater biodiversity hotspot and how elevation, geology, and drainage divides create distinct fish communities across West Virginia.

The conversation also explores what it actually means for a fish to be native. A species can be native to one watershed while being introduced in another, making geography and historical range much more important than simply looking at state boundaries.

Subjects covered include:

• Why Appalachia and Northeast Ohio are freshwater biodiversity hotspots

• How geology, elevation, and watersheds shape fish communities

• The difference between native, introduced, wild, and stocked fish

• Why drainage divides matter when determining a species' native range

• West Virginia's unique fish species and aquatic biodiversity

• The history of brook trout in West Virginia

• How logging, canopy loss, and sedimentation changed trout habitat

• The importance of riparian forests, hemlocks, and red spruce

• Climate change and the future of brook trout

• How bait bucket introductions can alter entire watersheds

• Hybridization and the threat to rare species like the candy darter

• The diamond darter and other Appalachian endemic fish

• How waterfalls can isolate fish populations and drive speciation

• Using museum specimens and historical records to reconstruct lost fish ranges

• How genetics can help scientists distinguish closely related species

• The complicated role of stocked sport fish in conservation

• Why anglers can play an important role in protecting native fish

• The work of the Native Fish Coalition

• How learning to identify fish and other species can deepen our connection to the places around us

Throughout the conversation, Cam makes a compelling case that understanding the fish in our streams means understanding the places those fish evolved in. Conservation isn't just about protecting individual species. It's about protecting the relationships between species, watersheds, and the landscapes that support them.

The episode closes with a reminder that learning the natural world around us is itself a form of stewardship. The more we understand the fish, birds, plants, and ecosystems in the places we call home, the more meaningful those places become and the more invested we become in protecting them.

Connect with Cam and the Native Fish Coalition

Native Fish Coalition:
https://nativefishcoalition.org/

Connect with The Ground Between Us

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Music licensed through Soundstripe.

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