The HR Life Podcast

The Red Seat is Empty. The guys tease SHRM's latest jury verdict, then dive into the exciting and wonderful world of workplace investigations for small companies. Tony shares why almost everyone in an investigation agrees on almost all of the facts, including one fistfight where the only thing in dispute was who pushed whom first.  Then Grover and Yolanda move in on opposite sides of a cubicle wall, and things get complicated fast. Tony and Steve walk through when you need a formal investigation and when you are just making it bigger than it is, why the person running the inquiry can't have any skin in the game, and why moving the complainant to the night shift might feel like a fix while creating a brand new problem. Steve breaks down the interview questions that fill in the answers before the employee ever opens their mouth, and both hosts take issue with SHRM's recommended interview order. Who should you talk to second, and why does it matter so much? What happens when a group of coworkers turns the complaint process into a burn book? Should AI be anywhere near your investigation notes? And after all of that, who is really harassing whom? The answer might not be the one you picked first. Stick around for the bonus round on pre-employment assessments, too, plus the news that according to AI, Tony has never made a mistake. He has the screenshots to prove it.

Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

The Red Seat is empty again, so Steve opens with the story of waiting twelve hours in line at Wrigley Field during the 2016 World Series and somehow landing ten rows behind home plate, right next to Javy Baez's family, while his wife and Javy's mom chatted like old friends. Tony counters with a Steelers stadium tour where the only rule anyone enforced was don't touch the grass. Then the guys roll up their sleeves for an episode on how to properly give employee discipline.  

This episode is a crash course in doing discipline right: why the best verbal warning never uses the words "verbal warning," why every manager needs a notebook (Tony could not remember what to call it, and Steve could not stop helping), and how an AI bot might spot a pattern before a lawyer does. Tony shares a game called Bet Your Life that could end with the manager getting written up instead of the employee. Steve lists the five offenses that can justify skipping straight to termination. Why does half of Reddit think a PIP means you are already halfway out the door, and are they right? Does an employee's signature mean they agree with the write-up? And is "we're an at-will state" the legal force field so many managers think it is? Stick around to the very end, too. Tony shared the secret to life, and Steve missed the whole thing.

 
Download a sample Disciplinary form at: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1F99mk1JfoKScGea7wMlFhmboNlr-oLVh?usp=sharing
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

The Red Seat sits empty this week, which means nobody is there to keep Tony and Steve on task, and it shows. Steve finally tells the story of the day Michael Jordan pulled up in a black Corvette and wanted to know why a couple of kids were photographing his fence. Tony counters with Donny Osmond, a fan who could be heard from seventy-five yards away, and the time J.R.R. Tolkien told an editor to stop citing the dictionary because he helped write it. Somewhere between Steve admitting his AI agent summarizes Tony's texts so he never has to read them, and Tony cheerfully shoulder-tapping a total stranger at the Utah Work Elevated Conference, the guys get around to the news. And the news is a lot.

Disney is telling employees that spouses and domestic partners with access to other coverage need to go get it there, and Tony has thoughts about what that means for two-income households and the mom and pop shop down the street. The University of Utah paid consultants millions for a plan to cut staff, and HR is first in line, with plans to shrink a 900-person HR team to 300. Then the conversation turns to Gen Z. Tony brings a Simon Sinek take that might make you rethink every eye roll you've aimed at a 23-year-old, and Steve brings proof that employers have been calling the next generation lazy for centuries. Is Gen Z entitled, or did they just watch their Gen X parents get laid off and do the math? Why does Tony think HR is a Rorschach test, and what does your company see when it looks at the inkblot? 

A Link to the UofU story: https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2026/09/15/university-utah-plans-lay-off/
A link to the video of Simon Sinek talking about Gen Z: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CEkpqG8W1/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

The guys record live from the Work Elevated Conference for the second year.  The discussion starts with a true live studio audience listening to the breaking news that SHRM national has cancelled it's annual conference as it is currently structured.  The guys discuss the change with the crowd that included Kate and Scott who had been on the podcast previously along with a few others.  Then Rachel Child joins the podcast for some incredible stories about elevators and shoulder checking strangers.  She also admits she uses Steve and Tony's names to open doors.  Then they sit down and talk with Chris Healy about winning the Frances A. Hume Lifetime Achievement and Hall of Fame Award.    Bree Gnehm even joins the podcast for a few minutes and recaps a little about the conference. 

A huge thank you to Joylynn Jeppson and Bree Gnehm for graciously allowing us to record from the conference.  Our congratulations on an incredible conference and a record attendance (for at least 10 years). 

Learn more about the Work Elevated Conference at: https://www.utahworkelevated.com/
Learn more about Utah SHRM at: https://utahshrm.org/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

Britt Davies is back, which on The HR Life Podcast officially makes her a repeat offender. She showed up on Labor Day morning with coffee in a BYU Yeti mug, while Steve drank apple cider straight from the jug.  Britt has spent 22 years in Utah HR, most recently as a CPO, and now runs Next Level HR, where she helps companies break up with their PEO. Fair warning: Tony opens with a disclaimer that this one gets a little spicy. Britt goes after Johnny C. Taylor's SHRM '26 keynote with a question that's hard to shake. If HR has been falling short for thirty years, who's been handing out the certifications that whole time? 

Then the conversation gets big. Universal basic income, AI layoffs, and whether our future looks more like a Star Trek replicator or a WALL-E recliner. Britt argues for a wage floor over a monthly check. She explains why the unemployment system may punish the very people trying to retrain or start something new, and she pitches an idea about grandparents and daycare that might have you calling your mom. Tony and Steve push back, nobody storms off, and everyone still plans to hang out at Phenomicon. So who should pay for the workers AI displaces? Can HR lead AI adoption without writing its own pink slip? And the question that matters most: would you rather meet Bigfoot, or get an email from HR that says "Can you come see me?"

A special shout out to PhenomeCon and the amazing crew that let the team crash the party.  Learn more about the annual event at: https://www.phenomecon.net/
Learn more about the 30 Seasons of Ghost Adventures at: https://www.discoveryplus.com/show/74a0b187-22a7-47ee-8132-bf9fd15f86cc/s30  The guys we met were the nicest people.  Thanks for letting us ambush you in the hallway and the incredible thing you did for Steve's daughter!  She wont forget, and neither will we.  

Learn more about Britt Davies at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittdaviespeople/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

Rod Lacey joins the guys and discusses the reality of consulting work.  They discuss what it’s like to be a consultant, the difficulties, the necessity of sales as a consultant, and the drawbacks of having a seat at the table.   What is the future of consulting? And what it takes to make it as a consultant are answered here. 

Learn more about Sunstone HR at: https://sunstonehr.com/
Learn more about Rod Lacey at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/therodlacey/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

Scott Fielding has spent 33 years selling health insurance, survived a tree that reportedly reached out and personally assaulted him on a mountain bike trail, and somehow still has the patience to explain what a captive is to people who nod along and Google it later. He joins Tony and Steve to walk through the difference between fully insured, level-funded, self-funded, and captive health plans, which sounds like the kind of thing that could put you to sleep until you realize one wrong choice here is probably costing your company six figures a year. 

Somewhere in the middle of all this, Tony gets something stuck in his craw (ask him what that even means, we dare you), the guys talk about why HR departments keep getting quietly shrunk and then quietly rehired at a discount. If your renewal has gone up every year and nobody has ever told you why, or if you've ever wondered what happens to the money between your deductible and the six-figure claim you hope never happens, this is the episode. What is your broker actually doing for that commission, and would you even know if the answer was "not much"?

You can contact Scott Fielding at: [email protected] or (801) 455-9886
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

Sarah Olin and Elena Arecco Bridgmon join the guys to talk about the real impact of good leadership and the business case for treating employees well.  Steve tells us that he's worn the Chicago Bulls Championship rings, and Sarah marches a picture of Elena's head across the screen getting Tony to laugh out loud.  The discussion includes the importance of the integration of Work and Life into "WorkLife", finding self-actualization at work, and what's required so employees can bring their whole selves to work.  (And yes, that's the sound of a coin dropping.)

Learn more about Lumo at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lumoleadership/posts/?feedView=all
Sign up for Lumo's Newsletter at: https://lumoleadership.com/get-started/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

Join us for some breaking news.  
This episode contains information about the following Events
1. Podcast Adventure on the Via Ferrata.  Email the podcast or contact Dyno Outfitters and tell them you're with our group at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/ Date: Sept 11th at 8:30am in Vernal. 
2. The Utah SHRM Excellence Awards, get tickets at: https://utahshrm.org/utah-shrm-excellence-awards/ We'll be there.  Date: September 15th at 6:00pm at Hales Theater in Sandy.   
3. We're presenting at the Work Elevated Conference on September 22nd at 9:30am.  Our session is a two hour session and has limited seats.  You can find more information at: https://www.utahworkelevated.com/agenda and get tickets to the conference at: https://whova.com/portal/registration/BGfw6xK2Ykzbkt1WRnhN/
(Bird sounds in the background provided by Nat and Pippa.  No birds were injured in the recording of this episode.) 

Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast

Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/

Rebekah Bradford has hand-sharpened knife-thin blades, has fallen across an Olympic qualifying line in a torn skin suit, and still found the composure to ask for a do over.  Rebekah competed in long-track speed skating at the 2010 Vancouver Olympics, which is a fancy way of saying she voluntarily strapped 17-inch blades to her feet and went very fast on purpose. Somewhere between Olympic trials, a torn suit, and a twenty-nine minute window to pull herself together for a re-skate, she made the team and picked up a husband along the way, courtesy of a celebrity date auction. These days, she has traded the ice for product marketing, a couple of master's degrees, and a household that includes a toddler daughter, a brand new baby brother, and presumably far fewer skate sharpening jigs lying around the house.  Rebekah walks The guys through a health scare that escalated during an ultimate frisbee game and ended in an ER visit that very likely saved her life.  So what does a blood clot scare have to do with your Tuesday afternoon standup? What is the one thing people always get wrong about Olympians? And does Steve's He-Man HR review hold up against actual gold medal level feedback?  (Steve's name in the transcript is Wolverine... because we know you all read it... just sayin'.)  

Learn more about Rebekah Bradford: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebekahbradford/
Learn more about the National Blood Clot Alliance at: https://www.stoptheclot.org/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast
Learn more about The Gods Must Be Crazy, the movie at: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080801/

A 2010 U.S. Olympian and two-time U.S. Sprint Champion in speedskating, Rebekah has built a life around competition, resilience, and the willingness to get back on the ice when life knocks you down. Today, she brings that same energy to her role as a product marketing leader at Energy Exemplar, a global energy software company.  But Rebekah’s greatest races haven't always been on the track. She is a survivor of bilateral pulmonary embolisms, a transracial adoptive parent, and a leader who has reinvented herself more than once. Her story is one of high-speed competition, unexpected obstacles, big pivots, and refusing to stay down.  She brings an Olympian’s mindset to everything she does: prepare relentlessly, embrace the pressure, trust the training, and show up—especially when showing up is hard.  Rebekah holds a dual MBA and PMP and lives in Salt Lake City with her family.

Help us a pressure The Utah mammoth to get involved in Pucks for Autism: https://www.nhl.com/utah/
Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/
Learn more about Thrive Life Project at: https://www.thrivelifeproject.org/