The Human Side of Facilitation

“Empathy is seeing with the eyes of another, listening with the ears of another, and feeling with the heart of another.”

— Alfred Adler

It’s one of those ‘completing a cycle’ moments for me here, to have this week’s guest on the podcast. Fay Wallis is a Career & Leadership Coach for HR Professionals, and also the host of the highly successful podcast “HR Coffee Time”. Fay was the first person who invited me to be a guest on her podcast, many years ago now, and from my initial “No thanks!” to then joining her, it made quite an impact on what followed for me.

Fay and I talk about designing group experiences where people feel individually seen and safe from the very first email, the leap from one-to-one coaching into group facilitation, why she changed her belief about the power of working with groups, the messier sides of running groups (from unpredictable dynamics to letting go of the hope that everyone stays best friends afterwards), and what it looks like to speak up, fiercely and compassionately, for a profession she cares about.

As always, please do reach out with thoughts, comments, ideas… we’d love to hear from you!

You can hear me and Fay speaking on my first ever appearance as a podcast guest (back in 2022!) here:

* https://brightskyhr.co.uk/hr-coffee-time-podcast/43/

Fay and I would love to hear from you…

* You can email me at [email protected]

* Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

* Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

Listeners can find out more about Fay at:

* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/faywallis/

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@faywallis

“Energy, not time, is the fundamental currency of high performance.”

- Jim Loehr & Tony Schwartz

Jen Rawlinson, a trainer and the Director of Flourish in Mind Training, joins me today. We’ve been waiting a while for our diaries to finally overlap with a time to do this, and I’ve been looking forward to this conversation, as Jen is such a supportive and positive person in the world of training.

We cover a lot of topics here, which is very useful as I’ve been collecting ‘sound bites’ for some upcoming compilation episodes, where there’s a topic (such as ‘wellbeing as a facilitator’) and I can take parts from multiple guests who talk about that, add in some research, and make a focussed episode I hope will be useful to listeners. When listening to Jen’s episode, there were at least 15 topics she mentions that this could happen with!

We chat about introversion, recovering our energy after training, successful co-facilitation, reading/mis-reading groups, and the impact of what we do. Along with very human stories and examples from Jen’s work.

Jen and I would love to hear from you…

· You can email me at [email protected]

· Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

· Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

Listeners can find out more about Jen at:

· https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-rawlinson-b92712a0/

· www.flourishinmind.co.uk

“Going outdoors opens new horizons. It can be a journey into an unfamiliar world - a world of differences where norms and routines are left behind and where people dress, feel, think and behave differently. Going outdoors can also be a voyage of discoveries where people find things out about themselves, about each other and about the natural world.”

— Roger Greenaway

I don’t class myself as a particularly outdoorsy person (I enjoy being outdoors, I love the sea and woodlands... but I also like a nice pub or hotel soon after being in them!), but I may have to reassess that after a fascinating conversation with Jen Le Marinel today.

Jen is founder of nature-based coaching and training business Wildfire Walks and author of Be More Tree: Wild wisdom for busy women. After quitting her corporate financial services career nearly a decade ago, Jen has worked with hundreds of clients both individually and in groups to help them access more courage, more resilience and more joy, through helping them to reconnect with their inner wildness. She’s a coach, facilitator, speaker and wild guide, and believes that when we remember, and embrace, that inner wildness, we can truly thrive.

Join us as we talk about all sorts of aspects of groups and facilitation... my favourite still being facilitating with wolves! I went from thinking how different mine and Jen’s worlds of facilitation are... to seeing a thousand connections and similarities.

Watch out for the wolves!

I’d love to hear from you – your stories, thoughts, comments, ideas, resources, anything…

· You can email me at [email protected]

· Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

· Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk

· Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

Listeners can find out more about Jen at:

· Website: www.wildfirewalks.com LinkedIn: Jen Le Marinel /

· https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-le-marinel-wildfirewalks/ Facebook:

· www.facebook.com/wildfirewalks

· Book: https://www.waterstones.com/book/be-more-tree/jen-le-marinel/9781805760672

“The actor is the greatest ally of the facilitator. It is the actor who most transports the role-players into the world of the workshop, draws and holds focus, compels belief by their utter commitment to the part, and demands engagement from the players.”

— Paul Heinrich

I’d never historically thought about acting as having so many overlaps with facilitation… but the more I interview acting specialists and work alongside them, the more I see the connections and how much we can both learn from each other.

I’ve had the pleasure of working with this week’s guest over the past few months, co-facilitating multiple sessions. Amy Du Quesne brings her acting skills into facilitation, helping bring scenarios, stories and characters to life. During our most recent work, we were talking about the worlds we both work in and realised we had more in common than we thought.

So I wanted to invite Amy on to discuss some of these topics. We take a bit of a diversion into AI vs human actors, about her work with her husband James, explore how she creates a safe space in her workshops when people arrive putting a lot of pressure on themselves, and talk about how she uses her ‘extreme empathy’ in a positive way when portraying characters in the groups we work with.

I’d love to hear from you…

· You can email me at [email protected]

· Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

· Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk

· Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

Listeners can find out more about Amy at:

· https://www.instagram.com/amyduquesne/

· https://app.spotlight.com/2694-5649-1705

· https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6052907/

· [email protected]

Link to the short film ‘Filter’ https://filmshortage.com/dailyshortpicks/filter/

“The magic happens when people feel included, not obliged.”

— Priya Parker

Today’s guest gave me a dilemma… after our pre-meeting and reading her questionnaire responses about which topics she could cover, how was it all going to fit in one episode?!

It doesn’t, so we decided to book another one, so we can come back to elements we didn’t cover.

In this one, Bonnie Grotjahn (a psychotherapist, counsellor and action learning facilitator) shares her story of facilitation which started in a University support group, took her through facilitating the Alternatives to Violence Project in Russia, to now running groups on topics like loss and life changes. I loved the way she touches on the magic and impact of facilitation across so many aspects of life.

I’d love to hear from you – your stories, thoughts, comments, ideas, resources, anything…

· You can email me at [email protected]

· Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

· Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk

· Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

Listeners can find out more about Bonnie at:

· LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bonnie-grotjahn-1383901b/

· Website: https://boatherapy.weebly.com/

“If you cannot increase reflective power in people, you might as well not teach, because reflection is the only thing that in the long run changes anybody.”

— Dorothy Heathcote

Psychodrama? It wasn’t a term I was familiar with until today’s guest reached out. Especially as a convert to using drama and roleplay in sessions (having previously been someone who would have found any reason possible to leave a session if they used the dreaded ‘R’ word!)

As I looked into it, I found it really interesting, especially as a lot of my work intersects with it. It’s also something on my own professional development list - wanting to refine and develop elements of what I’ve labelled as “creative facilitation techniques”, and something a lot of people I work with want to develop in too.

Today’s guest is Kevin Thomas, Founder and Principal of Green River Coaching & Consulting. I really enjoyed this conversation with Kevin and I hope you do as well.

We’d love to hear from you - what are your thoughts on this topic?

You can connect with me, here:

* You can email me at [email protected]

* Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cleary-coaching/

* Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

And with Kevin here:

* greenrivercoaching.com

* pioneerpsychodrama.org

* https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinrthomas/

What comes to mind when you think of a lawyer? What about a professional speaker? And why would an introverted lawyer want to do a TEDx Talk?

I’m speaking with Scott Walker today. Scott is a legal trainer, professional speaker, lawyer and visiting lecturer. He is passionate about helping law firms understand how introversion and extroversion shape how we work, communicate, and serve clients, and why personality awareness is the key to creating a more inclusive, human-centred legal profession. In fact you can hear his focus on the human side a lot during the episode.

We talk about his work, how introversion fits into the legal profession… and how does it influence working with groups? And what’s the cost to the trainer of doing that?

Scott and I would love to hear from you – do any of today’s topics resonate with you?

You can email me at [email protected] | Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify | Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk | Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

You can contact Scott on:

· https://uk.linkedin.com/in/scottwalker1

· https://www.youtube.com/@scottwalkersolicitor

· https://www.facebook.com/scottwalkersolicitor/

And watch his TEDx Talk is available on YouTube “Why does the world need an introverted lawyer? | Scott Walker | TEDx The University of Law Moorgate”

How does a marketing mentor have such a strong connection to the human side of group dynamics? And does facilitating swimming lessons have anything to do with running a marketing sanctuary?

I’m proven wrong about some of my assumptions about who will make a great guest for the podcast – marketing was definitely not a topic I searched for specialists in for guests! But when I saw a group that this week’s guest was facilitating, I very quickly invited her to talk about it with me, as she held the space so beautifully.

Kaye King is a marketing mentor, specialising in supporting solo business owners who want to make the world a better place, and her online community can help with both their marketing, along with their sense of connection and being supported.

I’d love to hear from you – do any of today’s topics resonate with you?

You can email me at [email protected] | Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify | Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk | Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation

Kaye would love for you to get in touch to continue the conversation. Email: [email protected] Connect on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kaye-king-marketingmentor. Or visit her website: Website: https://www.marketingmentorkaye.com/

Intuition? Reading the room? Picking up on cues?

What’s that ‘thing’… when you just know something is happening in the room, before you can explain it. Before anyone has said anything. Before there’s any obvious signal. Your body somehow got there first.

That’s something I’ve been looking into a lot lately, and working with my clients on… with new group leaders and trainers developing their own sense of this, to helping very experienced ones use it when they are supporting their own training teams. It’s something I will be continuing to explore, so please as always do reach out if you have thoughts, experiences, questions on this that we can look at in future episodes.

You can email me at [email protected] | Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify | Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk | Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation | Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cleary-coaching/

Here is part 2 of the conversation I had with Matthew Morris, course creator for Emotional First Aid.

We carry on where the last episode left off (obviously!), with Matthew’s take on the ‘layers of humanity that exist within groups’, stories and meaning making, and how we take our own strengths for granted (I love this, I’ve used almost word for word what Matthew says in so many of my own courses, and I find it fascinating that that’s happened, two people who have never coordinated this can be using such similar phrases). And many more topics.

Matthew also asks several questions of experienced trainers and facilitators - I’m collecting these to ask future guests, but please also write in and contact myself or Matthew about your own answers to his questions! We’d absolutely love to hear from you!

You can connect with Matthew here:

* www.emotional-firstaid.co.uk

* https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-morris-48181b72/

And with me, here:

* You can email me at [email protected]

* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cleary-coaching/

* Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

* Read and comment on Substack: https://substack.com/@tomclearyuk

* Find out more about Thoughtful Facilitation: https://www.tom-cleary.co.uk/thoughtful-facilitation