The Human Trace

Guest: Ling Li

Summary

In this conversation, Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker speaks with investigative journalist Ling Li and advocate Michelle B.J. Moore about the complexities of the scam industry in Southeast Asia, which intertwines with human trafficking, organized crime, and exploitation. They discuss the brutal realities faced by victims, the challenges of rescue operations, and the urgent need for collaboration among NGOs, law enforcement, and the private sector. The conversation highlights the evolving tactics of scammers, the economic implications of scam compounds, and the critical need for funding and reforms to support victims and combat this growing crisis.

Takeaways

• The scam industry is a complex web of exploitation.
• Victims often face dual identities as both victims and perpetrators.
• Rescue operations are hindered by corruption and lack of resources.
• The geographic expansion of scam compounds is alarming.
• Funding cuts severely impact NGOs and their ability to help victims.
• Collaboration between NGOs and law enforcement is essential.
• New recruitment tactics are emerging in the scam industry.
• The intersection of cybercrime and organized crime complicates enforcement efforts.
• Victim identification processes need urgent reform.
• The economic impact of scam compounds on local communities is significant.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cybercrime and Human Trafficking

02:39 Ling Li's Journey and the EOS Collective

05:32 The Brutality of Scam Compounds

08:26 Rescue Operations and the Role of NGOs

11:37 Victim-Perpetrator Duality in Scam Centers

14:45 Changing Profiles of Victims

17:22 Geographic Expansion of Scam Operations

20:31 The Impact of Funding Cuts on NGOs

23:37 The Role of Foreign Investors in Scam Compounds

31:44 Exploitation and Collaboration Challenges

35:37 Recruitment Tactics in Scamming

39:45 The Need for Real-Time Reporting

42:56 Data Sharing and Intelligence Collaboration

54:22 Victim Identification and Legal Reforms

01:00:25 Overlooked Sectors in Human Trafficking

01:04:03 Economic Impact of Scamming Compounds

01:11:44 The Global Expansion of Scamming and Its Victims

01:15:42 The Need for Collaboration and Reform

01:24:50 Funding Challenges and Solutions for Victims

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

Guest: Yasmin Ullah (https://www.instagram.com/rohingyawomencollaborative/)

This conversation delves into the plight of the Rohingya people, exploring their identity crisis, personal journeys of displacement and the human element of refugee experiences. Yasmin Ullah, a Rohingya human rights activist, shares her insights on the historical context of the Rohingya's struggles, the importance of women empowerment in activism, and the challenges of intergenerational fight for her people. The discussion emphasizes the need for understanding, compassion, and collective action to address the ongoing crisis and support the Rohingya community.

Takeaways

• The Rohingya have faced systematic erasure from history.
• Displacement has deeply affected the Rohingya identity.
• Women play a crucial role in Rohingya activism.
• The journey of refugees is filled with human stories.
• Intergenerational trauma impacts the Rohingya community.
• Advocacy requires understanding international structures.
• Cultural erasure is a significant issue for the Rohingya.
• Healing is a non-linear process for survivors.
• Collective action is essential for change.
• The Rohingya community seeks to return home safely.

Chapters

00:00 The Rohingya Identity Crisis

16:18 The Journey of Displacement

28:32 Empowerment Through Activism

31:06 Empowering Rohingya Women for Change

36:35 The Quest for Effective Advocacy

40:51 Hope and the Delusional Human Spirit

45:02 Addressing Regional Responses to the Rohingya Crisis

50:40 Navigating Intergenerational Trauma and Healing

56:01 Call to Action: Supporting the Rohingya Movement

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

With guest Tehmina Kaoosji. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tehmina-kaoosji/
Independent Broadcast Journalist, Partner & Comms Director, TBP Communications & Gender Equity Activist

In this episode of The Human Trace, journalist and gender equity advocate Tehmina Kaoosji joins us for a grounded conversation on gender-based violence, social inequality, and the critical role of media in shaping public perception. With a strong focus on Malaysia, Tehmina unpacks how systemic issues persist but also how younger generations are challenging harmful norms and creating cultural shifts from the inside out. This is a candid, hopeful and informed look at what it takes to move the needle in deeply rooted systems.

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

With Kamal Raj of Cross Global Asia Foundation

This week on The Human Trace, we sit down with Kamal Raj — justice advocate and founder of Cross Global Asia Foundation — to uncover how the caste system, one of the oldest forms of systemic oppression, continues to shape modern-day exploitation.

From manual scavenging to bonded labour, Kamal breaks down how caste hierarchies intersect with class, poverty and trafficking vulnerabilities, often hiding in plain sight. This episode explores the silence around caste, the cultural complicity that enables it and the leadership needed to dismantle inherited injustice.

If you’ve ever wondered how deeply entrenched social systems drive exploitation and what it takes to challenge them, this conversation is not to be missed.

Books referenced by Kamal on the episode:

1. Bonded Labour by Siddarth Kara (https://www.amazon.com/Bonded-Labor-Tackling-System-Slavery/dp/0231158491 )
   
   
2. Annihilation of Caste by Dr B.R. Ambedkar  https://www.amazon.com/Annihilation-Caste-B-R-Ambedkar/dp/9390492734
   
   
3. These Seats Are Reserved by Abhinav Chandrachud https://www.penguin.co.in/book/this-seat-is-reserved/
   
   
4. SLAVERY IN ANCIENT INDIA Author: DEV RAJ CHANANA https://pphbooks.net/product_info.php/products_id/186
   
   
5. Slavery in the Tamil Country By Sundararaj Manickam https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Slavery_in_the_Tamil_Country/09-7lAEACAAJ?hl=en&kptab=overview
   
   
6. Caste and Religion by A Sivasubramanian (https://www.amazon.in/Caste-Religion-Sivasubramanian/dp/819601712X) 

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

with Heidy Quah (@heidyquah | Refuge for the Refugees)

In this episode of The Human Trace, we speak with a dedicated human rights activist Heidy Quah about the hidden war on refugees and undocumented communities in Malaysia and beyond.

We go beyond headlines — into detention centres, into hospitals where legal status dictates access and into the systems that criminalise survival. Heidy breaks down the structural neglect that leaves stateless children without protection, trafficked individuals without justice, and entire families trapped in legal limbo.

The crisis isn’t displacement — it’s how we’ve chosen to respond to it.

If you've ever wondered what it means to be invisible to a state, or what justice looks like for those excluded from it — this episode asks the hard questions.

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

With co-host: Dr Hartini Zainudin

Millions of children around the world are legally invisible — unregistered at birth, excluded from healthcare, education, and protection. In this episode of The Human Trace, child rights advocate Dr. Hartini Zainudin breaks down the systemic failures that leave stateless, undocumented and marginalised children without access to basic survival needs.

We examine how legal invisibility, systemic neglect and policy inaction continue to entrench cycles of poverty, malnutrition, and exploitation — particularly among stateless children and those in displacement or conflict-affected settings.

 Dr. Hartini draws from decades of frontline experience to explain where accountability is breaking down, and why protecting children must be seen as a moral baseline, not a specialised cause.

This episode is a clear look at the costs of silence — and a call to confront the systems that keep children invisible.

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

 With Dr. Lauren Pinkston (@laurenmpinkston | upwardlydependent.com)

What starts as a trade policy decision in one country can trigger job losses, migration, and exploitation in another. In this episode of The Human Trace, we unpack how global economic shifts like tariffs, sanctions and conflict quietly destabilise livelihoods and push vulnerable communities closer to harm.

From supply chains to scam centers, and from small towns to international systems, we ask:

"Who pays the real price when the global economy moves?"

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

Part 2 of The Human Cost of Scam Centers
Guest: Erin West, Founder of Operation Shamrock (https://operationshamrock.org/)

Scam centers have become one of the fastest-growing forms of organised crime — but behind the fake accounts and stolen money is a darker reality: people trafficked, tortured, and forced to commit fraud under threat of violence.

In this episode, Helen is joined by co-host Mechelle Moore and special guest Erin West — founder of Operation Shamrock — to go beyond the headlines and expose the systems enabling forced criminality. From cryptocurrency to corruption, we unpack how trafficking has evolved, why global action is still lagging, and what it will take to stop this.

If we want to understand the true scale of this crisis, we have to look deeper — at law, money, and the hidden human cost.

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

When the earthquake hit Myanmar, the world briefly looked up — but what it exposed was far more devastating than collapsed buildings. Behind the natural disaster is a man-made crisis: a brutal civil war, forced migration, displacement, and the silent collapse of a nation.

In this episode, we go deeper — beyond the quake — to trace the unspoken layers of violence, survival, and political failure in Myanmar. Host Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is joined by Melody Mettlach Crisp, co-founder of Thr5ve and long-time advocate for displaced communities, to unpack what’s really happening on the ground.

Together, they explore the cost of global silence, the psychological toll of prolonged instability, and the urgent need for faith, action, and reintegration strategies that don’t stop at relief.

This is a conversation for those willing to confront the crisis — and the humanity — hidden behind the headlines.

References:
Overview of Myanmar History
(https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/myanmar-history-coup-military-rule-ethnic-conflict-rohingya)

Timeline of Resistance in Myanmar up to 2019 (https://www.irrawaddy.com/specials/timeline-70-years-ethnic-armed-resistance-movements-myanmar.html)

Overview of Rohingya Crisis
(https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/rohingya-crisis)

Earthquake Impact Numbers (https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/myanmar/myanmar-earthquake-response-situation-report-no-1-7-april-2025)

Internet Restrictions
(https://www.accessnow.org/press-release/call-for-lifting-of-internet-restrictions-myanmar/)

Junta Shoots at Aid Workers ((https://www.rfa.org/english/myanmar/2025/04/02/myanmar-junta-shot-chinese-quake-aid-envoy/)

Junta Keeps Attacking Despite Earthquake (https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-junta-airstrikes-continue-despite-quake.html)

Karen History of Myanmar Formation 1948
(https://knuhq.org/karen-national-union-press-release-on-the-signing-of-the-nca/about/background#:~:text=In%20so%20doing%2C%20the%20British,from%20Britain%20in%20one%20year)

About the National Unity Government 
(https://nugmyanmar.org/about/)

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.

Scam centers are flooding headlines — but what’s really going on behind the screens?

In this first episode of The Human Trace, Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is joined by friends and co-thinkers Mechelle Moore and BC Tan to unpack the hidden realities behind scam centers: forced criminality, trafficking, torture, and the growing underground economy built on human suffering.

This conversation explores the deeper layers — from recruitment tactics and political complicity, to what happens when survivors return home. 

Support the show

Published by Asia Freedom Network.
The Human Trace is produced to spark real conversations, amplify unheard stories, and trace the human impact behind global issues.

Helen Avadiar-Nimbalker is a trauma specialist, anti-trafficking strategist, and Director of the Asia Freedom Network. She is the founder of The Whispering Willow and CEO of Rise Foundation Asia — two organisations providing trauma-informed, community-based support for survivors of exploitation across Southeast Asia. With over two decades of experience, Helen has supported displaced communities, led survivor care initiatives, advised governments and civil society on systems reform, and shaped regional conversations on human rights, trauma, and justice.

Connect: linkedin.com/in/helenavadiarnimbalker
Learn more at asiafreedomnetwork.org and follow us on Instagram & LinkedIn @asiafreedomnetwork.