The Human Work Podcast

“You have this power inside of you. There is no external force that can give you an answer. Spend as much time as possible with yourself, because that is the compass. It always will be… Feeling from the depths of your soul and your core. Listen to that and never question the power and the voice inside of yourself because it knows where you’re going.”

Rocky Donati (she/her) is a lifelong builder, strategist, and entrepreneur. Raised by two entrepreneurs, she learned early how to turn ideas into reality — a foundation she later strengthened with an MBA and more than 20 years of experience building businesses, brands, teams, communities, and experiences.

Today, she is the Co-Founder & CEO of Maven, alongside several ventures spanning real estate and hospitality. Her work also extends into guidance, meditation, writing, and conversation, exploring the intersection of inner knowing and external creation — where intuition meets reason, being meets doing, and who we are shapes how we live and lead.

Part strategist, part intuitive, and full-time hedge witch, Rocky believes in giving less fucks and leading with more love. Outside of work, she embraces her inner hermit, escaping into the wilderness with her husband and 2 Aussie pups.

During their conversation, Rocky and Charlie discuss life both through the lens of work and of being a human, and how these days, Rocky is landing so much more in her human side. “In Human Design, as my incarnation cross, I have universal love, love for humanity, self love, and embodied love. And what was so strange is, over the course of this lifetime, I have been trying to hide all of that love and lock it away behind some safe inside my heart. And when I could unlock that and recognize it, … it showed me that I do embody love.”

Rocky can be found at rockydonati.com

This episode was recorded in September 2026.

Lesha Nelson (she/her) is a body worker, somatic practitioner who works with mothers, babies, and families during pregnancy and the postpartum period. Much of her work focuses on supporting the nervous system and helping both parents and babies integrate big experiences like birth, sleeping and feeding challenges, and early stress of this big transition. She uses gentle bodywork and somatic experiencing to help the body settle and reorganize so families can move forward with more ease.

The reason Lesha does this work is she sees how the early parenthood window is such a vulnerable and powerful time. When parents feel supported and babies get the help they need early on, it can shift the whole trajectory of a family. “We have the research now that shows supported babies have decreased mental health issues 30 years later. My goal is really to help parents feel more attuned to themselves and their babies, so they can move through this season with more confidence, connection, and resilience. I believe when we do this, the planet will change.”

When not working with families, Lesha spends lots of moments in nature and time with her husband and family. She also enjoys writing, walks in the sun, and travel.

Lesha can be found at:

leshanelson.com

Instagram: @lesha_nelson

podcast: Nurturing Resilience

Substack: Raw & Rooted

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma, by Bessel van der Kolk

Waking the Tiger, by Peter Levine (along with his Somatic Experiencing school)

and please, get out in nature.

This episode was recorded May 2026.

“I felt really passionate about helping people feel strength and resilience in their own bodies, and having someone who can help them believe that those things are true in their body no matter what they’re dealing with.” 

While being a small business owner has its ups and downs, Sarah McNurlin (she/her) finds that it truly fills her cup, and has set up her own business — as the owner of Pinon Physical Therapy and as the creator, owner, and manager of Trolley Healing Hub, a wellness collective — so she can treat her patients exactly how they need to be treated. Her patients get all of her brain and all of her energy for the hour they are together, and she is able to meet them where they are. Her unique business model “allows humans not only to be well, but to seek prevention and maintenance and performance in a way that PT’s are highly skilled at being able to do… I am able to be fully present with each person. And it’s those connections, and that quality matters and it’s worth paying for.” 

Community building and supporting small businesses is also so very important to Sarah. Within this, Sarah and Charlie chat about their Regeneration Dinner, a beautiful creative way for small business owners to connect and network. Sarah speaks to “how we gather is really important. We can elevate the importance of something or the meaning that comes from something just by the environment we create, or the rituals, or the things we do to make that a different interaction than something that people have experienced before.”

Both in her professional and personal life, Sarah speaks to her journey with and the importance of vulnerability in her own life. “The biggest part of vulnerability is just becoming okay with the fact that sometimes I don’t have all the answers, and sometimes I am not 100% effective at whatever I’m trying to do, and knowing that I can learn from that. And then creating an environment, where imperfections are okay… The point isn’t to be perfect. The point is how you handle those things and how you move on from those things.”

Outside of work, Sarah is a mama and a partner, a gardener, and a nature lover. 

Sarah can be found at www.pinyonpt.com, and on Instagram @dr.sarahmcnurlin.dpt, @trolleyhealinghub, and @pinyonpt

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Art of Gathering, by Priya Parker

The Four Tendencies, by Gretchen Rubin

Brené Brown 

Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David Epstein  

This episode was recorded September 2025. 

"Create your own story, create your own narrative, and don’t let work drain you of your life’s purpose.”

Jacey Thornton (she/they) is deeply rooted in her purpose to alleviate the suffering of others. At one of the darkest moments of her life, she reflected on why she should stay on this earth. This was about 20 years ago, when she was wondering why she had so much suffering in her life. "I remember reading the first Noble truth is suffering, and I just remember putting [the book] down, crying, going, that is true. That to me is what life is about. And if life is suffering and I’m suffering, I’m not broken, I’m human.”

In this episode, Jacey speaks to "there were parts of work I wanted to escape, there were parts of work I wanted to embrace. I think this journey of life has helped me to really identify the need for purpose and to really make sure that I align with where I work.” Her work, whether at Project Rainbow, the Utah Trans+ Coalition, or Flourish Therapy, is all driven by this purpose. As someone who had waded, and continues to wade through trauma, Jacey wants to make sense of it. "I don't want it to be wasted, and by alleviating the suffering of others, that is how I turn my suffering into a gift." When she is tied into her purpose, she thrives.

Outside of work, Jacey said she would still be going to drag shows and Pride festivals! She loves cooking, gardening and creating community gardens, skiing, being out in nature hiking and biking, and connecting with people and hosting Southern and Brazilian style barbecues. She co-parents 3 amazing kids and a golden doodle.

Jacey can be found at: www.projectrainbowutah.org

projectrainbowutah at LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Email: [email protected] or [email protected]

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Start With Why, by Simon Sinek
• Man’s Search For Meaning, by Viktor Frankl
• Facing the Shadow, by Patrick Carnes
• Untamed, by Glennon Doyle
• Brené Brown
• Be Here Now, by Ram Dass
• The Four Noble Truths: The Foundation of Buddhist Thought, by Geshe Tashi Tsering

This episode was recorded in August 2025.

*This episode contains content related to trauma and suicide. If you, or someone you know, is in crisis, please connect with the supportive folks at 988*

Caro Nilsson (she/her) was born in Vancouver, Washington and haws spent her entire life building relationships with the land in America's endlessly variable biomes, and translating those feelings and findings into paintings. She holds a B.A. in Fine Arts with a Distinguished Major in Printmaking, and a B.S. in Architecture from the University of Virginia. Caro completed her first solo painting residency at the Dacha in Mystic, CT in the Spring of 2021, and currently lives as a multi-media painter and muralist, painting full time from Salt Lake City.

When asked about her purpose, Caro beautifully explained, "My purpose, the reason I exist in the world, is to present the doorways to be in and with the magic of everything. It feels so potent to me and maybe sounds a little bit difficult to understand what that means, but to me, a doorway is like a moment of actual noticing. We go through our days so often distracted, and making lists and thinking about all the things that are happening — not exactly where we are, but that will happen later or that happened earlier — and everywhere, always, all the time, magic is happening. And the difference is opening your eyeballs and noticing."

When not working, Caro enjoys tending to her relationship with the land and with her community, mostly.

Caro can be found at carozobservations.com (or google "Caro Nilsson art") and @caroznilsson on instagram.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Groundwork with Human|Work
• Make Art Not Content, a podcast by Father Bronques
• The Creative Act: A Way of Being, by Rick Rubin
• Saving Time: Discovering a Life Beyond the Clock, by Jenny O’Dell
• 4000 weeks: Time Management For Mortals, by Oliver Burkeman

please always support your local bookstores and businesses.

This episode was recorded in January 2025.

Andrew Jylkka (he/him) is the former owner and baker of Southeast Dough Company, in Sitka, Alaska. Andrew shut down his business in October, and talks about the process of grappling with a new way of working and understanding himself separate from his work. "I still want [my work] to be fulfilling. I still want my work to align with my values, but I don’t want my work to define my values... That’s something that you [Charlie] might have started to plant the seed for way back in '22, because we did the whole values exercise. And you’re like, well, what are your values and how are you expressing those through your business versus what are your business values? And those are different things. They should be different entities.“

Throughout this conversation, something deeply resonates in what Andrew takes from chapter to chapter of his life: “All of that exploration leads me to be a more complete human and having a better understanding myself so that I can make stronger choices for my future. That’s all we can do is make stronger choices. Like, nothing is guaranteed. We don’t know what is around the corner. But the more I know myself, the more sure I am that a choice I will make will move me down the path that expresses my values to the strongest degree."

When he is not creating community through bread, Andrew can be found hiking, foraging, hunting, diving, cooking, reading, and participating in circus arts.

Andrew can be found @sedoughco on both Facebook and Instagram, yet please know while he is no longer posting, one can see what he has done and also he can still get messages if anyone has questions for him.

resources :

Human|Work

This episode was recorded in February 2025.

Leif Ariel (she/her) is an energy healer and energetic mentor who works with humans (and more recently, therapists/care practitioners) who feel bled dry from a life lived isolated up in their minds. She guides humans who are stuck in habitual ways of being into deep curiosity with themselves and the possibility of a greater reality. Together with her clients, Leif leads in the exploration of the wide range of human experience: emotional, somatic, energetic, ceremonial, imaginal so they can reenter the vital and passionate stream of life.

In this conversation, Leif speaks to her experience within her own work as, "If you’re going to be an energy healer, you will inevitably live in the imaginal realm, much of the time and believe in the imaginal realm of your clients. And not the imaginary realm, … but the true ‘make reality of the imaginal’, and that means holding the vision for yourself and being able to actually say, if I could create this, what would it look like?"

Outside of work, Leif loves to trail-run like a dog, bouncing and playing over the rocks. She also, always, practices what she teaches — she engages with herself in that full range of the human experience. She especially loves to find healing and surprises in the imaginal and dream worlds.

Leif can be found at mothertonguehealing.com, as well as here as a Human|Work mentor.

Resources:

an intentional commitment to sit with yourself in the morning

Barbara Brennon School of Healing

Robert Moss

This episode was recorded in March 2025.

“Never stop following your dreams and never let anyone tell you that you can’t do something, even yourself.”

This is the advice Joshua Lucero (he/him) would give to his younger self.

Joshua is the owner of Lucero Hair and Wellness in Salt Lake City, Utah, and of Lucero Hair Care. He has been doing hair since 2013 and has truly cultivated a passion for his craft. He got into the industry to find a better life for himself, and being able to give inclusive and creative services to people is one of his life goals.

In this episode, Joshua reflects: “When I started my career, I started in hair school. I was a student. I’ve learned to become a barber. I’ve learned to become a stylist. I’ve learned to become a therapist. Now I’m in the role of business owner. I’m leading and trying to teach other folks how I do that I’m doing. I think choosing the identity of entrepreneur, business owner… I think that we think it’s going to be all fun, and we realize, of shit, this is hard.”

When he is not at the shop, Joshua loves to travel the world, to read books (see below a list of some that have influenced him as a business owner and human), to play with his dogs, and enjoys time with his husband.

Joshua plans to continue his dream of creating safe spaces for LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC communities by offering education and events for these marginalized communities.

Joshua can be found at www.lucerohairandwellness.com & @lucerohair_andwellness on Instagram.

Resources:

• Travel, first and foremost. Get out there and see the world.
• Shoe Dog, by Phil Knight
• Let Them Theory, by Mel Robbins
• The Untethered Soul, by Michael Singer
• Unreasonable Hospitality, by Will Guidara
• Radical Candor, Kim Scott

Please always support your local bookstores and businesses.

This episode was recorded in February 2025.

Jean Madison Reiser is a career and life coach, the Founder of Whole Human Co. and a Human|Work mentor working at the intersection of work and life. She is Clifton Strengths Certified and supports leaders, entrepreneurs, and teams in optimizing their work in alignment to their strengths.

Jean shares her story of why she became a coach, why she works with Strengths, and her journey of burnout working in corporate, non–profit, and startups.

Jean is also a mom to Human Work's favorite one–year old, a yoga practitioner and teacher, and likes to spend her time exploring the National Parks with her family.

Jean can be found at Whole Human Co. (https://thewholehumanco.com/) on instagram @whole.humanco on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/whole-human-co/) and here on Human|Work as a mentor.

Hello and welcome back to Human | Work Stories where we are telling the stories of working humans doing human work. I’m your host Charlie Warner.

Today we will be sharing the human work story of Alyson La. Alyson is a data educator, technology career facilitator, mom, partner, explorer, and just a very lovely human to get to know.

Alyson got her career start in Silicon Valley working in the accounting department for GitHub. She then rose in the ranks exploring how to apply her skills in accounting to building data analytics dashboards. This led her on a wild journey through GitHub’s rise in the tech world and ultimately landed her at TechMoms, an education startup focused on upskilling moms and women in the tech world. Alyson shares about her love for data, analytics, the world of tech, and why teaching is so fulfilling for her now.

You can find Alyson at TechMoms at https://www.tech-moms.org/ and on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alysonla/