The Humans Strike Back

Today we’re talking with Laura Klein, the author of Build Better Products and UX for Lean Startups, as well as the founder of UsersKnow.com. She also hosts her own podcast, What is Wrong With UX, where she shares insights from her 20+ years in improving experiences for users.

In this episode, Laura shares a story of what happened when a company she worked for chose to ignore the needs and challenges of their main users, just because those weren’t the users the product team wanted to have.

It sounds crazy, but in Laura’s experience as a UX consultant, this actually happens more often than you might think.

It’s a fascinating conversation about how to really listen to your users, so that they can help take your company in directions you might never have expected. We also talk about the importance of creating a culture of respect for your users, as well as how to find the critical overlap between what users want and what’s best for your business.

Laura was a pleasure to speak with, and I hope you find her as insightful as I did.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Today I’m happy to introduce Lori Schwanbeck, a lovely human being who’s been working as a mindfulness consultant with dozens of companies and organizations like Google, the U.N., and even the ministry of Bhutan.

In fact, she was still recovering from her jet lag from coming back from Bhutan when we had this conversation.

Lori shares with us how practicing mindfulness at work can help us to enhance our decision-making, think more creatively, and build stronger teams.

Lori also shares why it’s so important to be vulnerable, human, and be yourself at work in order to create connections with others, how that actually leads to incredibly powerful teams, and why mindfulness is such a powerful tool to enable all of that.

What I loved so much about this conversation was how Lori was so willing to get personal, and how she invited me to do the same. I opened up a lot during this interview and shared a few things myself about what it is about working at Hotjar that has enabled me to do the best, most effective work of my life.

She also walked me through two incredibly quick but effective mindfulness exercises that take less than a minute each but lead to some pretty meaningful insights, so I hope you follow along and do them as well when you come to them.

I’m so glad I had the chance to talk with Lori, and I hope you feel just as at home with her as I did.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:01:30] How Lori got into mindfulness, and how that led to becoming a mindfulness consultant
• [00:02:49] The Search Inside Yourself Leadership Institute
• [00:04:03] Where Lori studied transpersonal psychology
• [00:04:30] What was it that made Lori decide that mindfulness had to be a part of her life and work
• [00:06:00] Lori’s background with Vipassana meditation
• [00:08:25] How Lori can bring mindfulness and meditation into a workplace setting
• [00:11:33] Research on the efficacy of building emotional intelligence
• [00:13:28] The importance of emotional intelligence in the workplace
• [00:17:13] What Lori’s workplace training look like
• [00:18:53] How people could practice Lori’s teachings at home
• [00:24:32] How to introduce skillful behavior
• [00:26:10] What skillful behavior training looks like
• [00:28:03] The importance of being able to be vulnerable in the workplace
• [00:32:08] The types of companies and organizations who are interested in Lori’s training
• [00:33:34] How Lori overcomes skepticism of her programs
• [00:37:07] What happens when leaders of organizations Lori works with are skeptical or don’t buy into her methods
• [00:39:25] What Lori would say to people who are on the fence about adopting a people-first approach
• [00:41:06] Resources that Lori recommends
• [00:43:43] The three-breath practice
• [00:46:19] The neuroscience of breathing exercises 
  

Today I’m happy to introduce Lori Schwanbeck, a lovely human being who’s been working as a mindfulness consultant with dozens of companies and organizations like Google, the U.N., and even the ministry of Bhutan.

In fact, she was still recovering from her jet lag from coming back from Bhutan when we had this conversation.

Lori shares with us how practicing mindfulness at work can help us to enhance our decision making, think more creatively, and build stronger teams.

Lori also shares why it’s so important to be vulnerable, human, and be yourself at work in order to create connections with others, how that actually leads to incredibly powerful teams, and why mindfulness is such a powerful tool to enable all of that.

What I loved so much about this conversation was how Lori was so willing to get personal, and how she invited me to do the same. I opened up a lot during this interview and shared a few things myself about what it is about working at Hotjar that has enabled me to do the best, most effective work of my life.

She also walked me through two incredibly quick but effective mindfulness exercises that take less than a minute each but lead to some pretty meaningful insights, so I hope you follow along and do them as well when you come to them.

I’m so glad I had the chance to talk with Lori, and I hope you feel just as at home with her as I did.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:01:30] How Lori got into mindfulness, and how that led to becoming a mindfulness consultant
• [00:02:49] The Search Inside Yourself Leadership Institute
• [00:04:03] Where Lori studied transpersonal psychology
• [00:04:30] What was it that made Lori decide that mindfulness had to be a part of her life and work
• [00:06:00] Lori’s background with Vipassana meditation
• [00:08:25] How Lori can bring mindfulness and meditation into a workplace setting
• [00:11:33] Research on the efficacy of building emotional intelligence
• [00:13:28] The importance of emotional intelligence in the workplace
• [00:17:13] What Lori’s workplace training look like
• [00:18:53] How people could practice Lori’s teachings at home
• [00:24:32] How to introduce skillful behavior
• [00:26:10] What skillful behavior training looks like
• [00:28:03] The importance of being able to be vulnerable in the workplace
• [00:32:08] The types of companies and organizations who are interested in Lori’s training
• [00:33:34] How Lori overcomes skepticism of her programs
• [00:37:07] What happens when leaders of organizations Lori works with are skeptical or don’t buy into her methods
• [00:39:25] What Lori would say to people who are on the fence about adopting a people-first approach
• [00:41:06] Resources that Lori recommends
• [00:43:43] The three-breath practice
• [00:46:19] The neuroscience of breathing exercises 
  

“You are who you are and that’s why we love you. That’s why we hired you. So don’t try to be someone else because we wanted you.” – Omer Molad

Today we’re talking with Omer Molad, the founder and CEO of the recruiting software startup, Vervoe, on how to bring a more human element into the hiring process.

Omer shares an incredibly personal story about how he learned to earn the trust of his team members’ while he was a platoon commander in the Israeli army in his early 20s.

That story alone is enough of a reason to listen to this episode, but Omer also talks about how he overcame the challenges & prejudices that he faced as an outsider to the tech industry in Melbourne, Australia while looking for work, and how that led him to develop a new way to hire that eventually became the heart of Vervoe.

What I loved about speaking with Omer was his complete openness and transparency, his willingness to admit that even as the CEO, he doesn’t have all the answers but is 100% willing to make the effort and find his way.

He’s definitely an inspirational figure, and I hope you get as much value out of listening to him share his stories as I did.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:01:27] What brought Omer to Melbourne, Australia
• [00:02:47] The differences between working in Israel and working in Australia
• [00:04:07] What the experience of trying to find a job in Melbourne was like
• [00:07:13] How Omer landed his first job in Melbourne
• [00:08:21] Omer’s time in the Israeli military
• [00:10:54] What made Omer realize he needed to build trust with his team when he was a platoon commander
• [00:17:41] How Omer’s experiences with the military apply to where he is now
• [00:20:23] How psychological safety and trust can help teams perform better
• [00:24:03] How Vervoe is different from more traditional companies
• [00:27:14] How compartmentalization can take energy away from work
• [00:28:50] How leaders should balance being vulnerable with being a positive and motivating force for the team
• [00:31:35] How Omer’s past experience combined with taking a human-first approach play out at Vervoe
• [00:35:19] Omer’s experiences with hiring people who might otherwise have been screened out
• [00:42:35] What the first stage of Vervoe’s hiring process looks like
• [00:47:05] What happens in the second stage of Vervoe’s hiring process
• [00:49:05] What Vervoe applicants do after completing stage two
• [00:53:44] A resource that Omer recommends
• [00:55:31] What Omer has learned from talking with introverted employees 

“You are who you are and that’s why we love you. That’s why we hired you. So don’t try to be someone else because we wanted you.” – Omer Molad

Today we’re talking with Omer Molad, the founder and CEO of the recruiting software startup, Vervoe, on how to bring a more human element into the hiring process.

Omer shares an incredibly personal story about how he learned to earn the trust of his team members’ while he was a platoon commander in the Israeli army in his early 20s.

That story alone is enough of a reason to listen to this episode, but Omer also talks about how he overcame the challenges & prejudices that he faced as an outsider to the tech industry in Melbourne, Australia while looking for work, and how that led him to develop a new way to hire that eventually became the heart of Vervoe.

What I loved about speaking with Omer was his complete openness and transparency, his willingness to admit that even as the CEO, he doesn’t have all the answers but is 100% willing to make the effort and find his way.

He’s definitely an inspirational figure, and I hope you get as much value out of listening to him share his stories as I did.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:01:27] What brought Omer to Melbourne, Australia
• [00:02:47] The differences between working in Israel and working in Australia
• [00:04:07] What the experience of trying to find a job in Melbourne was like
• [00:07:13] How Omer landed his first job in Melbourne
• [00:08:21] Omer’s time in the Israeli military
• [00:10:54] What made Omer realize he needed to build trust with his team when he was a platoon commander
• [00:17:41] How Omer’s experiences with the military apply to where he is now
• [00:20:23] How psychological safety and trust can help teams perform better
• [00:24:03] How Vervoe is different from more traditional companies
• [00:27:14] How compartmentalization can take energy away from work
• [00:28:50] How leaders should balance being vulnerable with being a positive and motivating force for the team
• [00:31:35] How Omer’s past experience combined with taking a human-first approach play out at Vervoe
• [00:35:19] Omer’s experiences with hiring people who might otherwise have been screened out
• [00:42:35] What the first stage of Vervoe’s hiring process looks like
• [00:47:05] What happens in the second stage of Vervoe’s hiring process
• [00:49:05] What Vervoe applicants do after completing stage two
• [00:53:44] A resource that Omer recommends
• [00:55:31] What Omer has learned from talking with introverted employees 

I’m very excited to introduce today’s guests:

Nilima Bhat & Raj Sisodia, co-authors of Shakti Leadership and pioneers of the Conscious Capitalism Movement.

They join me to talk about how qualities traditionally considered to be more ‘feminine’ – such as empathy, compassion, vulnerability and even love – are helping businesses increase revenue and create higher levels of employee engagement and customer satisfaction.

And this isn’t just their opinion. They came to this interview packed with research and studies showing that companies that embody these qualities significantly outperform businesses that prize domination, competition, aggression, and winning at any and all costs.

These two make such a powerful case for the need to bring a people-first mindset into every aspect of business that if I could make this episode required listening for business leaders, I would.

So have a listen and learn more about what traditional, profit-oriented businesses are getting wrong, and how a new generation of companies is setting itself up for long-term success.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:02:46] The existential crisis that led to Nilima leaving the corporate world and look for answers elsewhere
• [00:05:08] Raj’s background and what led him to Conscious Capitalism and his current line of work with Nilima
• [00:11:27] The research that shows that people are looking for more feminine qualities in leadership
• [00:12:38] The concept of shakti leadership
• [00:17:06] How to talk about the concept of shakti leadership in a way that’s accessible to anyone, regardless of spiritual background
• [00:21:58] Raj’s experience with the concept of shakti
• [00:27:30] The positive aspects of masculine qualities
• [00:30:04] What it looks like for a company to embody a balance of feminine and masculine principles
• [00:32:57] What companies look like when they have too many negative masculine or feminine traits
• [00:37:52] How to create a company that embodies a balance of positive masculine and feminine traits
• [00:45:00] The response to corporate pushback against ideas like the seven levels of consciousness
• [00:52:23] Data that supports the fact that companies that follow the values of conscious capitalism do better
• [00:56:34] Resources that Raj and Nilima recommend
  

How do you cultivate a healthy, open culture that empowers employees to thrive?

In today’s episode, we’re talking with Diana Chapman, the co-founder of The Conscious Leadership Group, about how to create a more authentic, people-focused culture at work.

Diana and her team have helped dozens of organizations, including Ebay, Asana, Whole Foods and more, to increase employee engagement and performance by eliminating drama, building trust, and cultivating a culture where authenticity, vulnerability, and transparency can take root.

And they’re getting results. In fact, Dustin Moskovitz and Justin Rosenstein, the co-founders of Asana, actually give every single one of their employee the chance to go through CLG’s leadership training, and credit that with helping them to more effectively achieve their company goals.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How Diana went from teaching scrapbooking classes in Michigan to teaching Silicon Valley giants the importance of conscious leadership
  
• Why authentic conversations and mindfulness matter, not just in personal relationships, but also within organizations
• The need to value emotional intelligence and ‘body’ intelligence as highly as cognitive intelligence
• How to cut through drama and see the underlying facts
• How to change your approach to a situation by changing the way that you frame it
• How to create a roadmap to get yourself and your team out of negative habits

Diana is an incredibly open and inspiring person and was more than willing to share the exact exercises she guides companies through to help their employees to thrive.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:01:10] How Diana moved from teaching scrapbooking to her current career
• [00:02:36] The class on conscious relationships that Diana took from Gay and Katie Hendricks
• [00:03:07] What it was about the classes at the Hendricks Institute that made Diana want to focus on conscious leadership
• [00:06:03] The definition of conscious leadership
• [00:07:30] The power of being in the present
• [00:09:09] What being present looks like
• [00:11:29] The three types of intelligence
• [00:13:50] How you can cultivate emotional intelligence and body intelligence
• [00:17:09] What happened when a presentation did not go the way that Diana expected
• [00:20:12] What Diana changed about her presentation•[00:22:02] How the experience of the group Diana was working with changed once she changed her approach
• [00:22:58] How that presentation experience impacted the way that Diana makes presentations with other companies
• [00:23:28] How to present people-first ideas to people in organizations who are skeptical
• [00:25:47] Exercises that can help with presenting alternative ideas
• [00:34:55] How clients can use the results of their exercises
• [00:36:57] Steps organizations that want to change can take
• [00:38:12] What to do when one person wants to have an authentic conversation and another person does not•[00:41:34] What kind of changes Diana has seen in organizations that have embraced conscious leadership
• [00:42:26] What flow states are
• [00:43:30] How Diana would help people understand the benefits of a people-first approach
• [00:48:02] One resource that Diana recommends•[00:49:03] The Enneagram system 
  

How do you cultivate a healthy, open culture that empowers employees to thrive?

In today’s episode, we’re talking with Diana Chapman, the co-founder of The Conscious Leadership Group, about how to create a more authentic, people-focused culture at work.

Diana and her team have helped dozens of organizations, including Ebay, Asana, Whole Foods and more, to increase employee engagement and performance by eliminating drama, building trust, and cultivating a culture where authenticity, vulnerability, and transparency can take root.

And they’re getting results. In fact, Dustin Moskovitz and Justin Rosenstein, the co-founders of Asana, actually give every single one of their employee the chance to go through CLG’s leadership training, and credit that with helping them to more effectively achieve their company goals.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How Diana went from teaching scrapbooking classes in Michigan to teaching Silicon Valley giants the importance of conscious leadership
  
• Why authentic conversations and mindfulness matter, not just in personal relationships, but also within organizations
• The need to value emotional intelligence and ‘body’ intelligence as highly as cognitive intelligence
• How to cut through drama and see the underlying facts
• How to change your approach to a situation by changing the way that you frame it
• How to create a roadmap to get yourself and your team out of negative habits

Diana is an incredibly open and inspiring person and was more than willing to share the exact exercises she guides companies through to help their employees to thrive.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:01:10] How Diana moved from teaching scrapbooking to her current career
• [00:02:36] The class on conscious relationships that Diana took from Gay and Katie Hendricks
• [00:03:07] What it was about the classes at the Hendricks Institute that made Diana want to focus on conscious leadership
• [00:06:03] The definition of conscious leadership
• [00:07:30] The power of being in the present
• [00:09:09] What being present looks like
• [00:11:29] The three types of intelligence
• [00:13:50] How you can cultivate emotional intelligence and body intelligence
• [00:17:09] What happened when a presentation did not go the way that Diana expected
• [00:20:12] What Diana changed about her presentation•[00:22:02] How the experience of the group Diana was working with changed once she changed her approach
• [00:22:58] How that presentation experience impacted the way that Diana makes presentations with other companies
• [00:23:28] How to present people-first ideas to people in organizations who are skeptical
• [00:25:47] Exercises that can help with presenting alternative ideas
• [00:34:55] How clients can use the results of their exercises
• [00:36:57] Steps organizations that want to change can take
• [00:38:12] What to do when one person wants to have an authentic conversation and another person does not•[00:41:34] What kind of changes Diana has seen in organizations that have embraced conscious leadership
• [00:42:26] What flow states are
• [00:43:30] How Diana would help people understand the benefits of a people-first approach
• [00:48:02] One resource that Diana recommends•[00:49:03] The Enneagram system 
  

“I realized that I’m doing the same stuff as I was doing at the first launch, this is like launch number four, and I’m not growing like I should be. What’s the missing piece here?”

“What I discovered? There’s a big difference between your audience and your customers.”

- Brian Dean, founder of Backlinko.com

Today, we’re speaking with Brian Dean, the founder of Backlinko.com, about the importance of talking to people in order to make sure your messaging is on point. I’ve been a fan of Brian’s for years now, and his site is one of my favorite sources for everything related to SEO and building backlinks.

Today, Brian is going to walk us through how sales of his flagship course, SEO That Works, started to stall by the 3rd or 4th launch, even though his email list was growing like crazy.

And no matter how much he looked at his analytics, he couldn’t figure out what was going wrong. UNTIL, that is, he started talking directly with his customers.

So listen closely and find out how Brian dramatically increased his launch numbers with a simple human-first approach.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:02:27] Where Backlinko was in October 2013
• [00:03:33] How Brian decided to launch a flagship course
• [00:04:10] How Brian got the feedback that led him to create a new course
• [00:04:50] How long it took Brian to create that first course, and how long it takes to create a course now
• [00:05:31] How Brian learned what people thought about SEO from reading blog comments
• [00:07:19] The overall structure of Brian’s first course
• [00:08:07] How Brian promoted his first course
• [00:08:33] What happened when Brian launched his first course
• [00:09:26] How the audience changed after the launch of the first course
• [00:11:26] How many people Brian tried to sell the first course to
• [00:13:39] How Brian knew he could do better than he did at his initial launch
• [00:14:22] The online course that Brian took to learn more about selling, and what he learned from it
• [00:14:27] How Brian went about reaching out to customers who had been successful with his material
• [00:16:10] What questions Brian asked when he reached out to customers
• [00:17:09] What Brian found out from asking those questions
• [00:19:23] How Brian changed the messaging and course after talking to customers
• [00::21:37] Why talking to people is the only way Brian could have discovered the changes that he needed to make
• [00:22:35] How Brian’s next launch size tripled after making changes
• [00:23:28] How Brian applied his new knowledge moving forward
  

“I realized that I’m doing the same stuff as I was doing at the first launch, this is like launch number four, and I’m not growing like I should be. What’s the missing piece here?”

“What I discovered? There’s a big difference between your audience and your customers.”

- Brian Dean, founder of Backlinko.com

Today, we’re speaking with Brian Dean, the founder of Backlinko.com, about the importance of talking to people in order to make sure your messaging is on point. I’ve been a fan of Brian’s for years now, and his site is one of my favorite sources for everything related to SEO and building backlinks.

Today, Brian is going to walk us through how sales of his flagship course, SEO That Works, started to stall by the 3rd or 4th launch, even though his email list was growing like crazy.

And no matter how much he looked at his analytics, he couldn’t figure out what was going wrong. UNTIL, that is, he started talking directly with his customers.

So listen closely and find out how Brian dramatically increased his launch numbers with a simple human-first approach.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• [00:02:27] Where Backlinko was in October 2013
• [00:03:33] How Brian decided to launch a flagship course
• [00:04:10] How Brian got the feedback that led him to create a new course
• [00:04:50] How long it took Brian to create that first course, and how long it takes to create a course now
• [00:05:31] How Brian learned what people thought about SEO from reading blog comments
• [00:07:19] The overall structure of Brian’s first course
• [00:08:07] How Brian promoted his first course
• [00:08:33] What happened when Brian launched his first course
• [00:09:26] How the audience changed after the launch of the first course
• [00:11:26] How many people Brian tried to sell the first course to
• [00:13:39] How Brian knew he could do better than he did at his initial launch
• [00:14:22] The online course that Brian took to learn more about selling, and what he learned from it
• [00:14:27] How Brian went about reaching out to customers who had been successful with his material
• [00:16:10] What questions Brian asked when he reached out to customers
• [00:17:09] What Brian found out from asking those questions
• [00:19:23] How Brian changed the messaging and course after talking to customers
• [00::21:37] Why talking to people is the only way Brian could have discovered the changes that he needed to make
• [00:22:35] How Brian’s next launch size tripled after making changes
• [00:23:28] How Brian applied his new knowledge moving forward