Season 2, Episode 1: “In This Here Place, We Flesh: Black Bodies in Art and Church ”
My guests for this episode are Jessica B. Davenport and Biko Mandela Gray.
Jessica B. Davenport is a doctoral student in the department of religion at Rice University researching black religion, aesthetics, and visual culture. She also has an MDiv from the Candler School of Theology. Jessica is the associate director and editor at large at projectCURATE, a Houston-based organization that focuses on issues at the intersections of religion, race, and social equity.
Biko Mandela Gray is assistant professor of religion at Syracuse University. His research interests are race, religion, philosophy of religion, and social justice. He’s currently working on a book on black lives matter and religion.
I sat down with Jessica and Biko at the Glen Workshop in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where they offered a workshop on the blackness of art. They talked to me about how black theology, and especially what is known as Womanist theology, have always reached beyond traditional liturgical materials to music, art, dance and literature. The arts and theology are often one and the same.
Black people are producing, have always produced, creative works of theology that must be taken seriously within the Christian tradition.
Many times when I talk to white artists of faith, we’ll express how we are drawn to certain liturgical forms because they involve the body in worship. But the body is usually involved in prescribed forms—standing, sitting, kneeling, bowing, moving the hands in the sign of the cross or even moving fingers along beads. I was struck by Jessica’s and Biko’s description of worship in historically black churches as a completely different experience of embodiment, one that is one that is not about mastery and conformity but about liberation. Black churches have often been the only place it’s safe to live fully and freely in a black body—to celebrate the body as an instrument through which God moves.
I spoke to Jessica and Biko just days before the death of writer Toni Morrison. The title of this episode comes from one of Biko’s favorite quotes from her novel, Beloved: “In this here place, we flesh; flesh that weeps, laughs; flesh that dances on bare feet in grass. Love it. Love it hard. Yonder they do not love your flesh. They despise it. “
We talked about art that explores what it means “to flesh”— to worship, to work, to live in a black body.
Friendship Is More Than Coffee and Proximity
The theme for this year’s Glen Workshop was “As Iron Sharpens Iron: The Promise & Peril of Friendship.” The talks the resident artists and scholars gave throughout the week focused on friendship and rivalry among artists. Biko spoke about the relationship between Andy Warhol and Jean Michel Basiquiat. Jessica’s lecture focused on historic images of black people with their white employers and art photography of black women together. You can listen to their talks on the Image website, and we explore both those topics in the next segment of my interview.
But first, both Biko and Jessica talked frankly about their hesitancy in discussing friendship at all in a predominantly white space.