The Impactful Ninja Show

Did you know that making the food industry more sustainable and a better business model can go hand in hand? This, and so much more, is what you'll learn in this episode together with Ali Cox from Noble West! 👇

***

THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS FIRST:

***

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

***

CONNECT WITH US ON OUR OTHER SOCIAL CHANNELS:

***

Stay impactful 💚

Dennis: Hello, and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I'm your host, Dennis Kambrat. And today, we're joined by Andrea Gori from illuminem. Andrea, welcome.

On: Thank you, Dennis. And thank you to everyone that listen to our podcast. It's, my pleasure to be with you.

Dennis: My pleasure having you as well. Now let's get into it. Give us a brief overview. What is illuminem?

Andrea: illuminem is purely a mission startup. We want to empower the sustainable transition, this big change in the world with 2 ingredients, the most insightful information and the most insightful data.

Dennis: So, basically, if I if I were to picture it as the mission driven start with the data and the insights and the information, What would I need to picture them to make it, like, a little more concrete reading?

Andrea: Yes. Of course. You can picture it very concretely. First of all, going on illuminem.com, and you already see there on one side almost unlimited news on sustainabilities that are brought to you by a mix of AI and the editorial curated content. So you can imagine everything happening in sustainability, the life rent, life categorized, life summarized in 60 seconds for you. And it is not enough. In parallel to that, we are very proud to have the largest expert network of sustainability top leaders. So this means over 1,500 people from head of states to top scientists, from CEOs to activists that on a daily basis, they share with us their insights on how we advancing in our sustainable transition.

Andrea: So this is a very concrete in front of you. And maybe Dennis later will speak more about building data that is more b to b and less, of course, b to c.

Dennis: Awesome. Now thanks for the overview. I think now we we can picture it quite clearly. Let's take a step back now. Before you start the illuminem, what's your background? What did you do beforehand?

Andrea: Yeah. I hope I will not make this story longer, but I like to consider myself a climate quitter. So I have, literally, say, a watershed point in my life. illuminem, changed completely my passion, my my city, my life, I can say. And so let's start very simple. I was, first of all, I was a very active student on the front line of many, let's say, environmental campaigns. After that, I had the opportunity to actually, like, work in finance. It was a subject I studied.

Andrea: I actually started my career in JPMorgan. So if you want the opposite of what is today the activist word. So from a big bank trading desk in London. And then afterwards, I did, long journey for almost 8 years in the Boston Consulting Group. He's, as you know, he's a very famous consulting company. At the time, I remember very clearly because, all of my mentors, colleagues were telling me, Andrea, you did the JPMorgan, you did finance. You should be like a great leader in our private equity practice. And I said at the time, no. No, guys. I'm here because we can do sustainability consulting.

Andrea: And at the time, trust me, was less than 7,000,000 in revenues for a huge corporation, so something completely relevant for the picture of the company. But we bet on it. And slowly, we created a leading practice area, so a leading, business area for the Boston Consulting Group. He had the honor to be green champion for entire continent, then the global green champion of, of the group. So representing the group, taking care of many environmental initiative, projects around the world, helping corporations in their decarbonization transition. And after that, with colleagues actually from, from that experience, we took the courage of building Illumina. So I hope I give you a glimpse of it, Denis.

Dennis: Sweet. So it sounds like you already had some some kind of sustainability baked in from from the very start when you said your studies are sustainable and about the environment. Later on, you transitioned it sounds like a brief period of finance, doing something different. But then with the consulting at BCG, you went back and, well, dedicated much more time into sustainability again. And then you mentioned afterwards with a few colleagues, that you started illuminem. What was the concrete challenge that you faced? What was the starting point for you that you said, like, well, it's great leading the sustainability practice in one way or the other, but you want to do something else. You want to do something on your own. You want to do maybe a little bit more even.

Andrea: It's exactly everything you mentioned. I hope I don't disappoint you to tell you that it's not an heroic moment. It's not like, one night where you literally change everything. It's something that grows with you, grows within you. And in that feeling, of course, like, having been at the front line of, of a new, let's say, part of the PCG business, so helping companies in sustainability. I was really realizing how this entire new world, what I believe would be like the new business normal, like, was literally lacking so many of the foundations, so many of the services, so many of the opportunities that you don't find in any other industry. And we actually started from the core. We said, guys, the problem is not to make another scientific innovation, but to enable the entire sustainable transition to literally reach us faster, to literally make it happen for real.

Andrea: So that was probably the big, the big observation. And from that big observation, very methodically, we started to understand where was the market gap, where we could make a difference. Because when you start, you literally have no resources and nothing nothing else at all goodwill. So that's literally the best realization. And hopefully, like, looking at us today already with a company with 300,000 users, with so many friends like you, Dennis. Already, I feel one step closer to that goal that we still have very high there guiding our way.

Dennis: Nice. That sounds that sounds quite similar to my journey, actually. Because after university, I started in consulting as well. I was looking specifically for sustainability consulting, and all the big three consulting companies didn't really offer anything like this. So I decided, like, a smaller boutique firm which focused on sustainability consulting. But then, also, in my mind, it grew so much more. It's like, okay. I wanna I want to do something different.

Dennis: In our case, we we try to enable people to make a positive impact in their lives across sustainability, but in also ethics and many, many different aspects. But it feels like quite a similar journey that slowly grew to, well, to keep it going into the, well, the much bigger operation we're now. But you also mentioned already, like, a big point of about 300,000 users. Can you remember still, like, going one step back? What was the very first concrete step? How did you get Illumina started? I imagine it takes also for you, it took quite a bit of time to hit the ground running and then to get to the first 300,000.

Andrea: Yes. First of all, let me say, Dennis, that we're selling the same shoes, and this polish should be the word of encouragement to any of your listeners, any of our friends there. Guys, we can make it happen. If you start believing in yourself, like, it's possible. And now if I go back on our early days, yeah, there is no garage, you know, there is a classic example, but, there is still, like, all that sweat, that effort, that, fatigue, of trying hard without any real chance, at least on the paper. And now let me tell you, for me, the first part of the journey was to get around me people that were better than me. And I say, guys, I actually can have the good intuition, but I need you, your tech skills to make a platform that is amazing with AI, with the good user experience. I need you because you're a great product person that can guide me to make the user experience amazing.

Andrea: I need you as well to help me with the legal staff. I need you as well to help me with the networking. So the 1st concrete step is building a team, a team of people better than me. I always say to my team, the day where I'm better than you in this room, I'm actually in the wrong room. So I need to like, I love to keep summoning myself to people that always inspire me every day for their rigor, for their willingness to make them second as much as for their capabilities. And the second step, right after having built this team, was to literally work on a meme by the product. I remember we were working very late at night because, when you have another job, like, happens only for many of you, you actually squeeze your weekends, you squeeze your, like, your nights to try to build something. For us, it was, an experiment.

Andrea: Let me see. The experiment, was even giving mixed results. So right? When you start and one thinks, oh my god, build a platform in 2 months, now I got 1,000,000 users. In reality, you have a number that is always, I actually don't know if it's good enough, not good enough. I would love it more. I would love it, like, to be bigger. But at that point, I just felt that I was happy. I was feeling, for once, doing something that was meaningful to me, something that it was having an impact on others.

Andrea: And so at the point, we took the courage and I said, guys, maybe it's the most things we're gonna do in our life, but, we will always regret if we don't make it happen now. And, of course, I speak to you 1 year and a half after that moment, and I still have the same energy and the same, feelings. Yeah.

Dennis: And isn't it the most beautiful thing also when you get positive feedback from from your readers or from from your viewers, listeners? It's like, hey. Thanks so much for that piece of content or for this this other piece of content. You really, like, helped me make a positive impact. And yeah. Oh, at least that's, it's the most exciting part for me always.

Andrea: Literally, it's the x it's that secret sauce that makes you, like, makes every day a good day. Even when, it's we're too tired or unhappy of a result. Like, we should never forget that on the other side of the screen, there are real people that, thanks to us, maybe have taken a better choice. Maybe have, gained a skill or maybe even better. They're now, like, becoming other change makers, creating a ripple effect for the better.

Dennis: Now you mentioned 2 things as well. 1, your journey was one and a half years so far. And the second thing is, just about 300,000 users or visitors. Walk us along the along the journey from finding the team to growing where you are today. What were the key milestones that passed along the way?

Andrea: Yeah. I give you a story again that too simplified because it's done, exposed. But, if you consider 3 steps that happened in my journey, it's number 1, you build a team and you build the main viable product, which is the classic dynamic story. You got it. The second one is that you try to literally understand if the problem you're solving is a real problem for your own audience. And here, let me tell you, I got it completely wrong at the beginning. Because as any person that is believing in what what he's doing, like, you always think, absolutely, that's the way I got it. Let's keep going.

Andrea: In reality, like, you never stop learning. You never stop learning from the market. You never stop learning from your friends, from your customers. And in this sense, like, I actually wanna even, like, recommend many books hopefully in this session. But it was a book called MAM Test. MAM Test was amazing to literally change, like, the way we were looking at what we're building. So in this second step was put into discussion what we're doing and creating, let's say, not a new viral product, but the real platform. So I can call it build a community feeling.

Andrea: The community feeling, is, probably today the only the big achievement that we have. And and I'll move on the 3rd phase. The 3rd phase is you build upon this community, and you start, like, leveraging its success to deliver what is the second product. In our case, we call the data product, our let's say, our current goal. We now, like, move from, like, having scaled the community to having data product that is now in the testing phase in, is already in hands off as customers. And maybe we'll discuss a bit later, but this is actually what keeps me busy now, keeps me, like, awake at night. And let me mention the last thing. In parallel to this, because these are very simplified story, you always have, like, your usual 2 perennial question.

Andrea: 1 is the funding. So you always need to be constantly in touch with investors that can choose to back you or not, can choose to believe in your vision or not. So you always need to keep that line of the phone always open. And the second one is the one about making sure that you build a team next to you. Right? You want people that believe in the mission as much as you. You want people that are literally there for you. So maybe a summary of the first things. Meanwhile, product, community, data product, and in parallel, you have fundraising and team building.

Dennis: Yeah. So many nice reflections there. One is, like, with the team. It sounds like as if you're speaking about our team as well, which is super awesome. It's like when you say believing in the mission, for example, whenever we interview people, the very first question is always, like, what are you most excited about? And there's, like, so many technical things or so many other benefits that they could speak about, but we only go ahead with those who identify with the mission. It's like, well, it's your mission of making a positive impact. That's why I wanna join.

Dennis: And the second thing is, like, having people smarter than yourself in the room. It's amazing working with true experts who you're just, well, you're just really working together with them. You see, oh, they make an impact. They know what they're speaking about. With that being said, there's already a few things that you mentioned. One, with the data with the product. Let's keep that for for the future outlook. But then also with the community, that sounds super interesting.

Dennis: In which way were you able to build up a community so far? And how could I picture the community from the outside or maybe also from the inside?

Andrea: Absolutely from the inside. That's the best the best picture because I think the community is a mix of being very honest and integral in what to do and a mix, of course, of creating real values for them.

Andrea: On one side, you need to create the natural empathy. You need to show that you're doing something that like that is honest. If you do sustainability, I always say perfection is not only in what you do, but in how you do it. So in this case, let me tell you 2 bold choices that I'm proud. We took the courage of taking against every possible advice we've received. We are now today, like, probably the only media platform that by design has no paywall, so there is not a single content to be paid, and second, there's no advertisements. So we literally created a business model. I always say it's the new way of medias where, like, the user is a pure, let's say, benefit, sir, what we're doing, and he can enjoy on a very generous way.

Andrea: And then, of course, you can engage on cross sellings, you can engage on, like, selective companies, but not directly being charged to pay for what you're offering them. The second thing that I say in of the community is, study very well what is needed in the sustainability space in in your market. And here, let me tell you how this community, like, started. So you can see, like, a festival in to, like, picture the market. In the market, we selected a niche that was a bit high end in this market. So let me be concrete. Instead of talking about, bamboo toothbrush and nothing against that, we need to have, like, also those reviews and those discussions. We'd selected, like, to give space to dedicate our front page, to literally quality content that is by design a bit more long to read, but design a bit more technical, but was positioning immediately ourselves in an angle of credibility.

Andrea: So I would say today that a success of Illumina, the success of this community has been first of all being credible. 2nd step was to associate yourself to the real actors of this ecosystem. Like, me and you alone will be no one. But if next to us, we have the leaders of Greenpeace, the leaders of WWF, the leaders of the United Nations, the leaders of the International Energy Agency, like head of states, and people with different opinion, but all of them with a common denominator. That the opinion is credible, the opinion is meaningful. At that point, like, you win, like, that game of being credible. So if I recap, like, position yourself in a niche of the market that is the credibility niche, the expert niche. 2nd, get these people associate themselves to you.

Andrea: And 3rd, let the community, like, interact almost on his own. Now we have a WhatsApp group that are managed by our members. We have, like, so many authors that write us on us every single week. And this is the beauty of seeing the community growing and, of course, it's reflected in the numbers that I see every day on our web sites. And every day make me so proud that something is happening. There is a word outside there that, thanks to us, get the right quality, sustainability information for free.

Dennis: Now before we look into to the future, give us a brief brief overview. What have been your your biggest challenges along the way as well?

Andrea: I have the list is very long, actually. I should I should I should speak for now for now on that. But, no. Let's make it let's make it short. So challenges number 1 is to operate with a very low budget. Because when you actually wanna interact with top caliber professionals, it's very difficult to, like, create something when you have a very limited budget. Second thing is to attract people, like, to work with you at the beginning. Here, let me tell you something again, very bold that we did.

Andrea: We choose not to be another startup in London, New York, or Shanghai. We said, guys, like, we can live by example. And in this case, we moved all of us to live in Venice. Venice is a very special city. It's a city that is the frontier of climate change. We are thriving in front of our doors at the office. But, you know, when you go in a city where there is no big ecosystem around you, literally to bring the talent with you. And that that is something that makes me again very proud today.

Andrea: Today we have around 20 friends here with us, like people were people that were originally from New York, Barcelona, from Paris or London, from Seoul or Gimme another city or from Zambia. And these people have chosen to be with us. Right? So if I recap the question, which one of the biggest challenges? Number 1, operate in a low budget environment. And second, attract the right people in an environment that makes everything meaningful.

Dennis: Sweet. It feels feels quite similarly again. Now let's take the opportunity and have a look into the future as well. You already mentioned something around the data product. Give us a brief outlook. What would be the future for illuminem?

Andrea: Here, we have a bold ambition. So remember the mission, you need to empower the sustainable transition with the most insightful information and data. Concretely, what are we doing with data? With data, we are building a product that, on one side, enable you to monitor live the environmental performance of any company, public and private. To understand which type of transparency we're bringing to the market. It's a revolution by itself. And, again, what is intuition? The intuition is if we know a bit better, we can choose a bit better. But more concretely, any product have different monetization schemes. The first way we wanna monetize our data is exactly to help our best friends, our community.

Andrea: Our community is made of thousands of companies, thousands of people in sustainability. And these people, what they're doing, they're doing solutions, amazing solution. This solution could be a software or like a new machine, could be like a type of service or a new renewable energy. All these solutions, let's call them sustainability solution providers, now have at our time to reach the scale. So what we're doing now is that we're using our data to enable all these sustainability solutions to scale. And the way we're doing it is that offering them the right insights, the right leads, the right intent to make them understand where the space for them. And, of course, again, you can understand the power of this impact. Because if you help your friend that has an amazing, I don't know, new type of renewable energy to deploy, to be deployed at scale, In that case, you have achieved so much more. That's what we alone would have done just with a single platform.

Dennis: Nice. It sounds like you're you're targeting probably also a few different groups of of all the offerings that you have. 1, it's the the, well, AI aggregated sustainability news, then it's community, and then it's the data. Now for everyone listening, who would be the right candidate or the right person for each of those buckets, and how could we best well join your journey?

Andrea: Actually, me, I actually simplify a lot this picture because I feel that first of all, everyone should feel part of our community if they want. This community is meant to be like a people of goodwill that are just happy to read, to stay informed, to get knowledge on sustainability. Specifically, within this community, we wanna help with the data solution, the sustainability solution providers. So all the people that have a sustainability solution, and I say of every kind, from a carbon solution to a renewable energy solution to a transport solution to literally have the solution scaling. So let's make it simple. So everyone, like, a free quality information and knowledge. And specifically, for this, like, a group of makers, we have a sales tool that help you make your solution scale.

Dennis: So it's it sounds like on the one hand, Cynto, if I want to consume the information, if I want to look for a solution, that would be perfect for me to go to the community. But on the other hand side, also, like, if I if I want to contribute with with more information with a solution, then I could also join the community and just, well, help everyone make an even bigger bigger impact with the solution.

Andrea: Exactly, Dennis.

Dennis: Nice. We put the the information about illuminem into the show notes as well and display them on the screen. And with this, let's have a little transition now into your personal learnings as well. If you reflect on your journey since, normally, I would say since starting with illuminem, but probably also since starting the sustainability practice with the Boston Consulting Group. How would you say has that changed your personal life, getting to know much, much more about sustainability and the importance of it?

Andrea: Yeah. I can share some tips about my mistakes, my lesson learned. As an entrepreneur, maybe a couple of tips that to me were important lesson. I can say number 1, aim to be collocated with your team. Remote is a beautiful solution when you have something already scaling, something already working, but we need to build innovate. There is no other way to be collocated. And if some team members, and it's perfectly fair, doesn't want to be, like, working in the same room, in the same space with you, simply not the right team member for that phase. Maybe you should simply welcome that person to say, amazing.

Andrea: We remain friends. You will be of great help when we can effectively work remotely. So advice number 1. Advice number 2 is also about looking for people that have the right resilience because truth is, it's much harder, much more difficult than we think. And I always remember this myself and I remember I always remember these to, like, to my team member and say, guys, we will not win because we are simply the best one. We will win because it's difficult to beat a team that doesn't give up. If instead go, like, more personal learnings, maybe here the biggest learning is purely about communicating. I see that all of us that we are so much into our sustainability readings, topics, and good practices.

Andrea: We often do the error of, judging, of closing up and say, look at these guys, they pollute a lot with their car. Look at these other guys, they actually don't care about what they're hitting. Look at these other guys, they they're traveling so much and so irresponsibly. In reality, we can be the only, like, the only change makers when we give the example. So we speak like we walk the talk, but at the same time, when we make the others understand. So my, like, biggest advice as a human being is never stop communicating why it matters. And this means to your mom, means to your best friend, means to that friend that you would like to see only once a month. And you'll be surprised how, like, you're powerful when you will speak openly and make people understand that something is a true purpose.

Andrea: So I hope I gave you that, those three lessons, Dennis. And, happy if I could elaborate more.

Dennis: Nice. Yeah. It sounds also like the connection between the why and speaking to your mom sounds like a perfect lesson from the book, The Mom Test as well. No?

Andrea: Actually, if you want me to elaborate on that, let me even share more because I feel that the generation of our mothers, right, and could be our grandparent grandparents for others or, like, anyone that is not any more young person, right, is a true cultural shock when it comes to our sustainability standards. I always make this concrete example and say, look, my parents, they were born with a simple playbook. What you need to do to get good person, something someone respected in society was to find a good job, get married, typically, like buy a house, make up a very beautiful family. Right? Now we arrive and say, mom, like, oh my god. You got married so early, like, you don't have the respect for your own freedom. Mom, oh my god. You bought a house in the periphery. You know, to go to the city center to work, now you need to commute every day, like, for an hour by car.

Andrea: Terrible. And that house, is not so cohabitated. I think it's very polluting. And then you even say to my mom, you actually, like, don't take care of a more vegan friendly limitation. And a lot of things, and she simply like she simply doesn't understand, but not because she's not intelligent enough. Simply because she was for years years told that what she was doing was exactly right. And so it takes time to let her understand that, yes, ma'am. You can actually like, remote works sometimes.

Andrea: You can actually live in a more co living space. You can actually choose to be more independent in certain things. And there is no judgment in doing 1 or the other, but to just simply show that there is a new world opening up. And often behind this new world, there are real values. This is actually a game changer.

Dennis: Yep. And isn't it also beautiful to see when like, with all the information and with all all the impact that you you're able to create, that you're also able to help those closest around you, your your family? At least for me, it's always, like, super amazing to see. It's like, oh, how can I help my mom or my dad to to live a little more sustainably? And then they're super proud. It's like, hey. Look what I changed. And now I do these things instead of what I used to do. It'd be fun. Yeah. That makes me the proudest of all.

Andrea: I'm sure I'm sure your parents are very proud of this. So I know.

Dennis: Now let's already go to the to the final question. If you had to share one tip with our audience, how we could become more impactful, what would your number one tip be for us?

Andrea: I love this question. To me, it'll be like the biggest thing is to never stop learning. That's the best way to be impactful. If you always keep that curiosity, that curiosity can shake, like, your beliefs, that curiosity that makes you every day, like, go be deeper in something, then I feel that the right action is purely simple consequence. Too often, when we don't act, it's because we don't understand the urgency of that action, because we don't understand the real impact of that action. So my biggest advice is never stop learning because we will need all your intelligence. We'll need all of this intelligence to make this place a better place, and I'm convinced that after the right learnings, this world will be green or will not be.

Dennis: Beautiful. Well, Andrea, thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for all the great work that you're doing with illuminem as well.

Andrea: Thanks to you, Dennis. Thanks to all of your listeners. And, of course, also feel free to get in touch with me. Us visiting us in Venice, we have, we're always happy to greet friends visiting us. And, of course, keep it green to me. Yeah.

Dennis: Would be lovely. Yeah. And thanks to everyone else so much for joining us, and stay impactful

Dennis: Hello and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I'm your host, Dennis Kamprad. And today, we're joined by Gary Schuler from GTF Technologies. Gary, welcome.

Gary: Yeah. Thanks, Dennis. Glad to be here.

Dennis: My pleasure having you. Now before we dive deep into your story, give us a brief overview. What is GTF Technologies and what are you guys doing there?

Gary: GTF Technologies, we design and manufacture a very, very unique food drying system. And what's unique about our system is that we can take a plant material, whether fruit, vegetable, or other plant materials, and turn it into a powder in less than a second without using outside heating sources such as natural gas. It's very compact and provides really a solution for a lower cost alternative to food drying.

Dennis: Sweet. Super curious. So to get a little deeper into that as well and also having to look, okay, how how does that actually make the food more sustainable? But before we go into that, let's rewind slightly. What did you do before founding GTF Technologies? What's your background?

Gary: I spent 23 years with the largest uniform supplier in the country here in the US called, CentOS. So we had not only manufactured work apparel, so imagine the airlines, their hotels, cruise lines, that was typically provided by Cintas, and as well as automotive. So if you went and got your car serviced that those uniforms and the laundry service was provided by Cintas, and so I was in charge of our largest corporate clients. So those accounts that needed uniforms for their manufacturing facilities, that was my role. And then that's really kind of how I got involved with the the company. It's because I saw what we were doing with excess garments were being landfilled and thought that there might be a better alternative than landfilling brand new clothing.

Dennis: Was there any kind of connection already to you mentioned beforehand, like, how you're powering the pool, like, super rapidly, like, within a second. It sounds quite a little a bit different from from what you did before. What was what was the journey? Did you encounter any kind of problem on the way, or was there any other connection?

Gary: Yeah. It's been it's been a challenge, but with every challenge was a different opportunity and a much larger opportunity. I think that had more of a impact it could have on on sustainability, as well as helping to feed people with excess food that was being wasted. So the original how I started was to try to redirect garments clothing from going into the landfill and helping those garments get donated. So there was an impact for the company. It saved money from landfill cost. There was an additional tax savings by donating it to the nonprofit organization. And then we also realizing that working with these the right nonprofit organizations, they were really helping to get the clothing to places around the world with extreme poverty.

Gary: And so what I also realized in working with some of my clients that when I worked at Cintas is that these larger manufacturing facilities had problems not only with their their materials, their excess, whether it be return products or, I I would say sort outs, and they really didn't have a good disposition option other than landfill. And I just thought it was a shame because here you have something of value that is being landfilled. And yet we have all these needs around the world. Is there a better model here to help these companies? And so the transition really came from food was perishable foods. And the problem that companies were having was the governmental regulations about banning organic waste going into landfill because it's the biggest contributor of carbon. We're one of the biggest contributors of carbon emissions. And so the key came down to is if there was a way that we could stabilize some of that food waste in such a way that it didn't get landfilled and it was a better asset use of that material. That was really where the transition of the business model came into into play.

Dennis: It really sounds like you you discovered a problem in your previous position, and I was completely different with clothes going to landfill. And then you discovered something somewhat related from the process of, like, purchasing the food going to the landfill as well and thought about, like, well, when we can solve this one issue, why not solve this this other, maybe even much bigger issue when it comes to the carbon emissions and when it comes to foods food going to landfill and do something else about of it. How did you how did you make that concrete first step there? It sounds like that might be not just like a a problem that you were able to encounter, but also a technology challenge to actually make that happen. What was your first step there?

Gary: The first step was working with some of the retailers, the larger big box retailers that both did, apparel. If you can imagine like Walmart, Costco, Target. They now also, you know, typically had a lot of merchandise, hard good merchandise, I call it, whether it be sporting goods or, you know, the the clothing that they offered. But then they started to also expand their grocery line items, perishable foods, meats, delis, dairy, breads, those types of items. Well, the challenge we came in is what do we do with expired food? And there was an opportunity to donate it, but the challenge that we all have in perishable foods is time is not on our side. So So we've all experienced food waste. We don't go to the grocery store and buy grapes and bananas and apples with the intent that we're going to throw 30% of it away. Yet worldwide, 30% of all what is being produced in terms of, growing is wasted.

Gary: And it's because it starts to perish. So the real business concept said for me was if there's a way that we could stabilize that food. If I can take it from a waste and turn it into an asset that once it's stabilized then you have time on your hands. So for example, if we can take an apple that's got a a certain shelf life, but our technology, I can turn it into a a powder in less than a second. All the nutrients of that apple are in this packet of powder. It's got a shelf life of 3 to 5 years. Now we have time. We're not transporting water.

Gary: I don't have to worry about bacterial decay of that product. And yet it can be rehydrated. It can actually be used as a muffin, let's say, and re being used. And it can also help, and part of our mission is to help feed people. We've got 850,000,000 people around the world on the brink of starvation. Yet we have all this food waste. So So if there's a way that we can stabilize that material, we could help feed those people with a direct environmental impact if everybody wins in that scenario.

Dennis: How did you how did you go about this from from your position to working together with the big supermarket chains or the big retailers to actually getting GTF technology started and, creating the first product. So

Gary: The challenge there was the first business model was really gonna be a what I call is a, a waste managed donation service provider for these companies. The intent was to really show them the tax savings by donating some of their, you know, the retail products. And then when I realized the bigger problem they were having was was the perishable foods. The original technology it came across was not really being used fully for food. It was a older technology initially created for the mining industry to separate coal from dirt, believe it or not. But that's where surrounded myself and had some great investors initially on who understood the mission that we were trying to be as a company. In other words, we wanted to have a company that was a prop you know, a for profit company with a mission, that had a purpose in mind. And the key was to develop the technology in such a way that it made financial sense to look at the capital expenditure for the the material.

Gary: So food drying has been done for years. Right? You have dehydration, you have spray drying, and drum drying, all these different technologies. But the key was is how do we how do we do that in such a way that it actually provides a financial value for those corporations. So that was the real key is the investment in the technology that would allow us to dry the material at a lower cost and the value. So for that Apple example that I just just talked about, I've had 3 companies that reached out to me this last month that were producing over £300,000,000 of excess apples. And so the older technology for food drying took a lot of natural gas, a lot of time. It just didn't pencil in well from a financial model. So our objective as a company in terms of getting investment dollars, we had to really pour all that investment monies over the last several years into the technology.

Gary: We had to develop a system that was able to dry that material at a low enough cost to where the value exceeded the cost of drying. And that's when the the real opportunities existed. So now it really made sense for a company financially to have a more sustainable option, providing a new revenue opportunity for them and really keeping some of this food waste from being waste, but actually turn it into an asset.

Dennis: Sounds like so many things happened since the beginning yet, like, you're still staying so close to to your quorum. Like, from discovering the problem, seeing some similarities to to your previous work, seeing different partners that you could could work together with, starting with a completely different business model similar to what you did before with the donation afterwards to figure out, well, to make that really happen, there's 2 big things that you need to change. 1, the business model to make it so that it makes financial sense to your partners as well. And the second thing is to improve on the technology that used to exist with the food chain beforehand, but to make it more sustainable, to make it more cost efficient, and it sounds like also much more instant.

Gary: Correct.

Dennis: Mhmm. Nice. Now walk us along the journey there. What was some of the of the biggest challenges that for you along this process? It sounds like in hindsight, it sounds like it's a big red threat. And it sounds like way too smooth sailing. No?

Gary: Well, I think one of the biggest challenges that you have is starting a business as an entrepreneur and having a vision is you don't realize how much time it's going to take, how expensive it's going to take, and the commitment. And one of the biggest impacts was on my my wife. When you're you kinda feel like I'm jacking the beanstalk a bit. Say, oh, you know, look at this business and what we're gonna do. We're gonna help save the planet and help feed people. And and yet you get into the weeds of that, and it's very difficult. It could be straining. You have more setbacks than you have wins.

Gary: You learn from failure. And it really takes its it can take its toll if you're not careful. And you really need to kind of work through that as well as having the right investors, the right people around you who have that longer term vision. It's not like, hey, we're gonna build this company and then, you know, sell it in 2 years. It's it's gotta have a longer vision for what the company's trying to do and make sure that everybody's on the same page, and I've been very, very fortunate to have the investors and also the team that works here at GTF. It's just amazing that we all realize that there's a bigger purpose outside of just selling some equipment. We have to help solve business problems. I have to help the company make money or save money.

Gary: But in that process, we can also partner with some of these companies and say, hey, we have excess flour that could be made into bread. Let's help donate that to a nonprofit that's doing some great work to help feed people around the world with who are facing malnutrition. That really gets exciting.

Dennis: I love the love the connection with the mission as well next to next to the business model. When it comes when it comes to the whole orientation and the mission of the of your organization, getting investors, but then also acquiring talent to work for you. Would you say that this was one of the key points that you focus on that everyone is fully aligned with your mission?

Gary: Absolutely. And we we talk about that quite a bit because you can get very focused on the day to day problems and trying to solve those problems, which is you kind of can lose sight of, okay, are we making any headway to help advance the technology to really position the equipment with these clients in the right way. And working with the larger corporations, it just takes time to you're talking a new technology. You're really in an area that they typically have relied on cattle farmers for their waste product. And now we're talking about a whole new way of looking at their materials, not only for food applications, but, you know, we're now utilizing some of that material as like bioplastic uses. And so the more that we keep our team and our employees focused on here is the end goal. Here's what we're trying to achieve. This is the potential impact that your job is having.

Gary: It's we we are a team, and yet there's somebody around the world that, you know, that may not see a direct impact for several years. But in a couple of years, we don't know what that need is gonna be. And because of the advancement of all the hard work of the team, we could, you know, help to save a life down the road. We don't know. I think the bigger importance is that we all have an impact that we don't realize in a day to day that I think a lot of people just fail to, you know, to see. And we we kinda have to look at, okay, what what am I doing and why? And if I'm trying to help better our world, help to somebody else, the business issues will eventually take care of themselves if we're really focused on our core mission.

Dennis: You mentioned a few interesting points to to kind of go a little deeper as well. Like, one is that that you have kind of a different or new product for a different solution, as compared to, like, where the food goes otherwise. Was there any kind of communication challenge for you as well to onboard new partners, or was that something that was quite easy too easy to visualize, easy to come across?

Gary: Communication. I mean, my ex external partners that were

Dennis: Yes. So basically to to get someone new to use GTF technologies.

Gary: You know, the biggest challenge, Dennis, that we have is some of the waste product that that companies produce is just mind boggling. It's not unheard of for a brewer or some of the companies we're working with to produce over £1,000,000 of waste every week at one facility. And so the normal math on that, let's say if I'm working with a big brewing operation, a brewer, Folks don't realize that for every 6 pack of beer, they produce about a pound of brewers spent grain waste. So the question becomes is that material could be turned into a great flour that could be used for bread, but there's not enough buyers for that material. So in other words, if I'm gonna take something that's a £1,000,000 and turn it into £200,000 of flour every week, the question that comes back in that communication process is, what am I gonna do with all this flour? And and I know that there's a huge value. It's just they're making beer. They're making juice. They're making a food product.

Gary: They're not in a powder business, and yet we import so much of our powders from overseas. And yet we have a opportunity to really be a disruptor in the industry because we're now taking something as a zero raw material cost in feed. So these companies that was a waste, now it's a could be a basis for a new revenue opportunity for them. The way that we're doing it retaining all the nutrients, but it's a climate smart ingredient. And so the more that we can communicate with the industry, the packaged goods, food companies to say, Hey, here's this new ingredients that are now being available to you that have a direct impact on your ESG scores. That communication is the biggest challenge that I'm having as a company, is these companies going, Hey, can you help us, you know, find a buyer for this flower? We'll we'll be interested in your equipment, but we we don't know what we're gonna do with all this this material.

Dennis: It's interesting. I wouldn't have expected that. It's it sounds like you have an amazing technology that helps reuse waste, turn it into something valuable in powderized form. But now in addition to while providing this this kind of value, it sounds like kind of the in intermediate position in the marketplace would also be what is really helpful in a sense that turning waste into something valuable, but where's the buyer? And there's something that you could also really provide value kind of finding these buyers.

Gary: Yeah. You know, Dennis, it's, it's amazing within the in the organizations of the disconnect in communication as well. So for an example, I talked about the brewers spent grain from the the brewing industry. For every 1,000,000 pounds of that brewers spent grain, we turn into a to a flour that that could be used as a bread. There's 1600 tons of carbon offsets every week potentially. And yet it we're putting together the financial model and and saying, hey, you're going to reduce your risk, potentially have a new revenue opportunity. And oh yeah, by the way, one of the other deliverables here is a significant carbon reduction. Sometimes the sustainability person's not even in the room.

Gary: And I'm the one that's asking, hey, who's your director of sustainability? They probably wanna know about this conversation. It's coming up from operations. So it's really getting these corporations. They they all talk sustainability. It's all in the annual report. But if you're really going to come down to provide a solution, it's it's coming together as a team and say, okay, what's the operational challenges or concerns? What's the financial concerns? But if we can address all those issues, it's it's a huge win for them. And I think that that's also part of the challenge where I also see some of the non profit organizations, some of these bigger foundations, all wanting to invest in in climate solutions. They're all wanting to invest in in helping to feed people.

Gary: And they could be a catalyst to help these companies to say, okay, what am I gonna what am I gonna do with all this apple flower? Well, if, you know, we could do it so cost effectively that it can feed millions of people really in a fraction of maybe what they're buying their food for now. But I know that some of the larger nonprofit organizations like the UN or UNICEF, they have a food shortage. And it's it's kind of crazy. I've got I've got this surplus of potentially of of food ingredients that's available. It's just making a connections within the company and making the connections with the outside food ingredients or the nonprofits who are really helping to make an impact. And everybody has the same kind of goals, but there's definitely a disconnect among everybody. And I'm hoping that through time we can help, you know, start to work collectively. And if that's the case, I think we could really, really put it that that dent in reducing food waste, helping the environment as well as to really helping, those with malnutrition around the world.

Gary: Yeah.

Dennis: Isn't it crazy how it seems like it's such an obvious solution that should have been in place, like, not just with the companies that you're working with, but basically for every company? And then it it helps reuse waste. It helps feed more people with nutrients as well. And it helps, like, reduce carbon emissions, not just offsetting carbon emissions, but actually reducing it at the source.

Dennis: And yet you it seems to be communication challenges like getting the products to those who who actually need it and also around in the world as well.

Gary: Correct. Yeah. And I I also think that some of the companies, you know, again, we've made paper out of some of the the, the different materials that are wasted. And yet, every one of the companies are looking for sustainable packaging. So could there be a more of a 3 60 model here? In other words, if I've got a product that could be used in paper production, even if it's 10 to 20%, we could actually start introducing that as a material within your own sustainable packaging based upon something that was typically either landfilled or given away as an animal feed. There's maybe a better solution there that achieves multiple goals within that company. And so that's also an opportunity here that's just, again, it's getting everybody on the team, you know, singing from the same hymnal as they say.

Dennis: No. I love that. It's also a beautiful transition to look a little more into the future of what's what's your plans for GTF Technologies are. It sounds like trying to help the organizations become much more like a circle organization so that they they don't have anything that is wasted that is that cannot be reused. Is that some kind of direction you wanna go to? Or what are your what are your plans for the future, Jim?

Gary: Our immediate goal is for those companies that reach larger processors that we can actually take their side streams and and turn it into a new asset for them. I also think it's in the future what I would like to see is more as a solution for some of maybe the, other developing countries that I heard statistics that said that 60% of the crops grown in certain developing countries gets wasted. And it's a distribution issue. They can't get their, you know, product to the market quick enough. Could there be a way that we could actually reduce the cost of food by stabilizing the food more at the source, doing packaging, you know, closer to the source of where it's grown before it then hits the shelves on the supermarket. So if you think about the cost of a a spice or some of our products on the shelf, 60% of that is the packaging and the transportation. If we can push that back in the supply chain, it can reduce the the cost of food. It could help those developing countries.

Gary: I also think one of the other opportunities is certain byproducts in the production of different food could dramatically impact the local grower or the farmer. Let's talk about the coffee for just a moment. In the coffee growing, the actual coffee cherry is very similar to the cherries that that we eat and, you know, that you would see. And the cherry is high antioxidant, has some great nutrient value for it could be used in the beverage industry, is making bread, vitamins. And yet all that is a waste product typically for the coffee grower. Imagine if we were able to take that side stream and turn that into a powder that now that we could use as a food ingredient. What impact would that have financially on these communities that are brilliant, very poor areas growing the coffee? It could be a whole another revenue opportunity for them that has a direct impact on sustainability. Right? Now I'm taking, you know, they're they're selling their coffee to the coffee bean for the coffee, industry, but they're now taking the cherry, and it could actually be used a scone or a bread mix or other product.

Gary: And now that farmer has another you know, there nothing is getting wasted, and they actually are able to do more and help their local communities as well because there's another revenue opportunity coming in from their farming operation. So that that's another goal for us down the road is we potentially in some of these developing countries could really help that local farmers.

Dennis: Sounds like so many so many opportunities to to go for. And I especially like that part about, like, turning something that has inherently a negative value in the current state into something that is, like, a positive value on on so many different levels to make it true, like, a win win probably a few more wins on along the way situation.

Gary: Correct.

Dennis: Now for for everyone listening, what would be a good way for us or for any kind of organizations to help you along this journey to to help make it happen? Would it be spreading your message, getting connected to people in power, or what would be the best way for us?

Gary: That would be fantastic. I think for your listeners is that there's a basically a term or an organization called the Upcycle Food Association. And it's really getting product certified as being, you know, what's the carbon impact. I like to call it carbon smart ingredients. So I think there's going to be a natural pull from consumers very much similar to what the organic industry was 20, 25 years ago. Is that, you know, what is that carbon footprint, or what's that carbon impact on what I'm eating in my packaged material? And so really having a demand is really going to be pulling this supply forward so that companies now look at saying, hey, if I'm able to invest in the cat you know, the the capital to dry my waste, that could be an asset. I know that there's an offlet. So that that would be number 1.

Gary: And I also think that potentially is again, it's the connections with larger foundations organizations is, you know, we do have an opportunity here with a source material that could really move the needle in helping to put a dent in those with malnutrition. Whether that's a grain from a brewer spent grain or other healthier vegetable materials that that really I'm talking significant volume. If those organizations say, Hey, we're willing to invest in that, that also is a catalyst that could help tip these large organizations to say, Hey, we're willing to partner, we're willing to invest in the equipment. If I know that I could even sell the material at our cost to produce, at least we're not upside down on it. That would be a huge value in in helping everybody along the the whole process here.

Dennis: Awesome. We'll put all the information into the show notes. Also link to your to your website on screen. So it hopefully, people in power reach out and make the make the right decisions. Now before we go into some personal reflections as well, was there anything that I forgot to ask you that you would have liked to share with our audience?

Gary: I think one of the other applications potentially for the for this, we've been talking a lot about the brewing, farming producers, but let's let's also not forget post consumer food waste, Right? Another statistic said that between 40 60%, I think it was a statistic of our landfills or organic waste. And so if you're thinking about the food waste that comes off of the university or a hospital or even the consumer, there's a big push for composting. In New York City, or these larger cities, there's no composting, commercial composting available. So you're shipping something that's got a 80 to 90% moisture and trying to compost it, which potentially could be a way of powderizing it. And if it's turned into a powder very quickly within the area, the urban area, there could be another, you know, use of that material, say fertilizer or even sustainable packaging. So I think we're trying to address all those areas as well. So I think that that's the next level is what could be used with the post consumer food waste to help, again, reduce the carbon emissions because it's not going into the landfills.

Dennis: No. I would. I would love that option to to be available to everyone as well. Yeah. Nice. Now let's make a little little turn and have a look at, at your personal reflection and personal learnings as well. How would you say since, well, founding and working with TTF Technologies, how would that have impacted your personal life?

Gary: I think it's it's really having faith. And the hardest part of that, it's real easy, especially, you know, just getting older to really focus on, okay, do I have enough money to retire? And why why am I doing this? Why am I working so hard? And the reflection that keeps going is to say, wait a second. There's people in need. There's a a widow in the Sudan with 3 kids in a grass hut that hasn't haven't had a meal in 3 days. You know, I ate breakfast this morning. I have clean water. I'm blessed. And so the really my faith is and the team here is is it keeps us going.

Gary: GTF actually stands for gleaning the fields, which is out of the the old testament in the bible, and it was basically saying that the outer edge of a field was there for the for the poor. So I look at companies or what we're doing as a field. It's, you know, I've got to steward that field the best that I can, and yet if there's excess that comes off the field, then we have an obligation to help those in need. And so that's really the personal reflection is we expect it's gonna be hard. Expect that there's going to be challenges. But within those challenges, we learn. We grow. We stretch ourselves.

Gary: And I think that can apply to everybody. Is that if you're trying to do the right thing and you're trying to help somebody else, it's not always going to be easy. But it's the right thing to do. And I think that that's really the the personal reflection is if it wasn't hard, then maybe I'm not really trying to trying enough. So that's really the I would probably say one of the major personal reflections I've had.

Dennis: I love it how that also sounds so closely connected to the mission that you have with GTF.

Gary: Yeah. Thanks, Dennis.

Dennis: Well, now to our final question already. If you had to share one tip with our audience on how we could become more impactful, what would your number one tip be for us?

Gary: I think people need to not spend so much time on their cell phone. And the reason being is then you don't see the needs of other people that you could make an impact. I'll give you an example. I was on a plane earlier this week and my seat was on the window. And the plane was, you know, almost full. And somebody was sitting in the aisles or the middle seat in the aisle. And an elderly gal, probably in her mid eighties, was coming down, and her seat was the row right ahead of ours. And she was trying to put her bag up into the overhead compartment.

Gary: I think we've all flown. We've probably have seen that, you know, experienced that. And I looked around, and the person next to me in the middle seat, as well as the aisle, as well as on the other side of the aisle, were all on their phones. Nobody saw her. And I reached over to the gentleman on the aisle and I just tapped him and I kind of just mentioned or pointed over to to look at this elderly gal who needed help. He gave me a look like how dare you interrupt my cell phone time. And I got him I gave him a look like if you don't help her out, you know, I got another use for that piece of luggage. And it it was just, you know, he he did get up and helped her put it.

Gary: I couldn't do it. I was on the window seat, so I couldn't get up quick enough to to help her put her luggage up there. But I thought to myself how how blind. And I realized that from a standpoint that the tip is that we can all make an impact. I mean, across the street there may be a widow or somebody who's in need or hasn't had a meal. Feed them. Open your eyes to really impact of encouraging the gal to check out. Or we have all have such an opportunity within our communities, within our street, within our schools, within within our jobs right now today.

Gary: There might be a 100 opportunities for every one of your listeners to make an impact. But if we're, you know, if we're preoccupied with the wrong stuff, you'll never going to see that. And so if we just open our eyes to the to the different opportunities, I think that's that's the the one tip. And then I also think if we're in an organization or a company where can you make an impact of where you're at today with the resources you have? So I think that so many companies have so many opportunities to make an impact, and they have the resources given to them. Look for those opportunities within your own within your own field, in essence.

Dennis: Beautiful. Thanks. Thanks so much for sharing that, Gary. Thanks so much for the work you're doing with GTF Technologies. It's a pleasure having you.

Gary: Well, thanks, Dennis. It's been a pleasure.

Dennis: And to everyone else, thanks so much for listening in as well. And stay impactful.

Dennis: Hello, and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I'm your host, Dennis Kamprad. And today, we're joined by Paula Pérez from Nae Vegan Shoes. Paula, welcome.

Paula: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's so nice to be here, Dennis. Really.

Dennis: My my pleasure as well. I'm super curious to to learn more about Nae Vegan Shoes. Can you give us a brief overview? What what are you doing with Nae Vegan Shoes?

Paula: Yes. So Nae Vegan Shoes, was born in fact in 2008. So we have like almost 17 years old and it has been like a challenge for us. But I would say that in the beginning, the main reason that we created or that I have created Knight was because I really wanted to have a business of my own, you know? But I thought, okay, but I don't want any kind of business, you know? It has to be some mission that aligns with my values or with what I think. And I have been vegan for quite a long time. And I thought that also because I didn't have shoes at the time because I didn't want to use leather. So I thought that as Portugal have a great and good industry of shoes, I thought it would be a good business to have like vegan shoes, you know. So, yeah, it was like a crazy idea at the beginning because nobody talked about vegan shoes or sustainable fashion, you know? And yes, so we started the project talking with the factories to see how it looked like, what they thought about it.

Paula: And it was quite challenging in the beginning because people, they didn't understand the concept, right, because they were kind of used to use leather, animal leather. So for the factories to think about working with different materials, it was something very weird for them. And I think this is one of our main challenges in the beginning. Mhmm. Yeah. But, yeah. But then we started tell me something.

Dennis: No. I just wanted to say like, well, so much so much information already to kind of dive deeper a little bit. The first thing that's maybe also for audience to notice, like, when I'm pronouncing, like, ne vegan, you say nay, Like, the Portuguese version. And then, like, for the for the all of you, it's, basically, you're producing vegan shoes. And it came from the personal challenges. Like, one, you wanted to have, like, a sustainable a good business for yourself. And you also had the challenge of finding the right shoes for yourself as a vegan.

Dennis: Before we dive deep into the process and into how you get it started, let's give us let's rewind the slide. But what did you do before you started Nae Vegan Shoes?

Paula: Okay. So I worked, I have a degree in mathematics and information management. So I worked as a director in the in the telecom industry in Portugal. I worked in Information Management, you know, analytics, advanced analytics and data. Usually I worked for that like the last 18 years with data. But, I really in 2008, I thought that, okay, so I think I really need something different for my for my life. And, you know, like I wanted to have also to make something different to have a different impact, you know, because I I didn't see myself, like, working in the industry in telecom industry forever, you know. It's it was like, okay.

Paula: So I need to do something different. And, of course, I need to earn money because everybody needs money, right? So I thought that maybe that would be a good solution. And it was. It was. But I always have worked in data and analytics and reporting and everything like that.

Dennis: Sounds like a super structured work environment, especially with your background in mathematics. Might be super logical thinking and structured thinking. Is it also what kind of led you along the path to start in a vegan shoes? Because you you mentioned before in that your head in your mind you want to do something sustainable and about the shoes. And was that some some logical conclusion? Okay. Let's put it all together. Let's see what kind of business model we can create out of it and go ahead, or was that more like coming from your feeling?

Paula: It was kind of coming from my feeling because it was something more emotional also. I think that it happens a lot, right? It was not something that, okay, so let's do a detailed business plan. And it was not like that. It was more like, okay, so let's see how it works, you know, because I'm not the only crazy in the world that need vegan shoes, I thought. Right? So I think that there are people that also have the same options that I do. So let's see how it works. And we started very slow. Okay? We didn't start, like, with a big investment or we started very slow with a small collection, you know, just like, I think it was like 5 models, you know.

Paula: And we started slowly to see what happened because I didn't quit my job at the beginning. Of course, I continue working and I worked at night at the end of the day and weekends and it was very intense for some some years. But, yes, it was I think it was very emotional.

Dennis: How was that transition for you? Like, when when was the first concrete starting point for you? So you said you worked still at your job, and you kept that doing for, like, a few years in parallel. I know that feeling as well. Same what I did in the beginning. But what was the concrete starting point for you that you said, like, okay. Let's create the first shoes and how did that go in the beginning?

Paula: Okay. So the shoes, it's like the idea. Right? But I wasn't a designer. Right? So I thought, okay. So I need someone to design and develop the shoes. Right? So I contacted the designer that I knew from the North of Portugal. And I told her, look, I just want to start with 5 different models, very basic, you know, blank, you know, like the kind of basic basic. And, and yes, and it was kind of that first step when we started to design those shoes.

Paula: And then we went to the factory and say, okay, so we need these shoes. Okay. Then started the questions, right? So the materials and what and everything that that means about like developing pair of shoes. But I think like it was a challenge to think, okay, so I'm not a designer because usually the people that create fashion, because shoes is fashion, right? It's retail fashion industry. So I think that at the beginning I thought, okay, so I'm not a designer. How am I going to do this? Right? So, of course, because of my background and also from Alex, my husband that is with me in the project, we are like very analytical and rational and practical, you know, people. So we are not like artists. But I think that is interesting because, you know, we are very focused in making that company works, you know.

Paula: But the other part of the design and everything, I knew that, okay, so I can outsource this. You know, there are a lot of people that design shoes. So we work with the designer. And yes, I think everything is possible, you know, when you create a company. It's just preparing it well and everything goes as well.

Dennis: Did you have to convince the factory, the fabrics, to to create shoes that are not made out of leather? Or did you already find, like, one specific one that way you could share the kind of materials you wanted to use?

Paula: I had the materials because I did some research about the vegan materials that I could use. Of course, it was very different from now because we have now we have a lot more of options. But at the time, we didn't have so many. But I already studied exactly the materials that we were going to start with. And the materials are very different from animal leather. So that was when the factory started like, okay, what is this? Why? You know, because even the process of building, you know, producing your shoes in the factory, it's different, you know, the way that you stitch, the way that you make all the forms and everything, it's different because the material reacts in a different way. So they had kind of to learn also and adapt the processes, you know. But it worked very well because people, I think they started also to understand the concept, you know.

Paula: And of course, as we were like growing and also May was growing and gaining new customers, and of course, they thought, okay, so there is a business here. Let's do it, right? So, yeah, it was Great second

Dennis: one is to mention the growth as well. Like, before you had the growth, how did it feel for you having your first, like, own vegan shoe in your own hands and then making the first sale?

Paula: It was very good. You know, it felt very good for me. It was and Germany was and still is our main market. And we have some contacts from shops in Germany. We started first with the B2B then with the B2C. I think more like in terms of weight in revenue, it was more like the B2B buying from us because the B2C, I mean, the final consumer was starting, but it worked also. Right? But I felt amazing seeing that, okay, so this works, you know, it's not because I have this crazy idea of creating shoes and I thought maybe this is like a crazy idea, you know, but it wasn't. So that is really good and nice to know that there are a lot of people that wants to, you know, to be your customers.

Paula: So I felt amazing.

Dennis: And we see a lot more a lot more consumer being aware of the impact that's, well, the consumption and also any kind of fashion or shoes have, well, basically, on the earth and the environment. And a lot more focus on towards more sustainable and more ethical products just like like the shoes that you're producing. Now from walk us along the journey now from the first designs, like the all black shows, to the first sales going to Germany, b to b, b to c. How how did that develop along the journey? And when did you decide to to quit your job and work full time on it?

Paula: As I said, b to b was always very strong for us. You know, we had other shops that wanted to buy from us and that worked very well. And then also, of course, we have an online platform. We were always very strong in the e commerce, you know, in the e commerce platform and the online as a channel, as a sales channel. And I think that maybe in 2015, it was like 50% B2C, B2B, you know, And we started to sell all over the world. So not only Germany, but United States and Portugal, also Italy, Spain. I mean, we started to sell in a lot of countries. And then I saw that the market was growing.

Paula: People were more, you know, and also the company was growing. So in 2017, also because of course I have 2 daughters and we have our personal life and I thought, okay, so I'm not going to like to quit my job like that. You know, I have to make sure that everything is working and I need to feel like secure, you know, in this decision that I'm making. But in 2017, I thought, okay, so that's it. I'm going to quit my job because I think this is working. And I think that I want to do this the rest of my life. You know, it's like, so it was a huge decision. Alex, my husband, was already working in the company, but I take I took a little bit longer to quit my job.

Paula: But it felt really good to understand that, okay, so we can believe from 9, you know, it's not so, it was not like, okay, so I'm going to start a startup, you know, and everything works perfectly. And the next year, it wasn't like that. It was a slow process. But, yeah, in 2017 in December, I quit my job and I started to to dedicate full time to to NAB.

Dennis: Nice. It was like six and a half years ago or something like this?

Paula: Yes.

Dennis: How did it develop for you? Like, the journey now from Nae, since you were able to focus full time on it and you mentioned also your husband, Alex, working on it. How did it develop from from that point in time until we are not where we are now?

Paula: Okay. So it has been a lot of challenges, you know, because with the pandemics, everything changed, and the business changed a lot. As I told you, we sell for b to b and b to c, but then we with the pandemics, the shops started to close. So we will increase the b to c, and the b to b decreased a lot for us this past year. So I think that now things are starting to get more normal, but also with the Ukrainian war, things are not so easy. So I think that this last year since the pandemic, things are a little bit roller coaster. You know, we have some great years, but then, like, 2022 was very good for us in terms of revenue, but then it started to decrease with the Ukrainian war. So, I mean, it's a challenge, you know? So we have to be, like, every day working in this project and making that it works.

Paula: Right? To see, okay, so if it doesn't work like this, okay, so what is the best way to do this? Let's, like, start a new ecommerce platform that is more flexible and, you know, to explore other channels, other sales channels. So we are always Yeah. So it's not like, okay. So I have created a company and I'm here sitting and No. No. No. No. Never like this.

Paula: No. It doesn't work for me. No. No. I don't know. Maybe he maybe someone has that, that kind of experience, but, I don't. Me and Alex, we are everyday working, worried about the company and, you know, it's Yeah. It's it's not so easy, you know, to have a company.

Paula: It's a big responsibility.

Dennis: That probably just works if you put, like, an external operator into managing all the business decisions, and you just give strategic input from time to time. But then also, who wants to do that? Right? Yeah. So you mentioned a few challenges already. Like you mentioned, like, a shift, like, with the pandemic more or less from B2B more to B2C. You also mentioned there was some change in sales with the Ukrainian world, which is kind of interesting to see. I would not have expected any change happening there. Let's go for the pandemic first. What was the biggest challenge there? Did you also have some supply chain issues there? Or was it just like a general shift that b to b wasn't selling as much because the stores didn't open that much?

Paula: Yes. So it started with, like, the b to b. They had to close, of course, because of the pandemic. So we started to see that, okay, so we are not selling to the stores right now, you know, so it was a huge decline. And then the 1st months of the pandemic, I have to say, I was very scared about what is going to happen with Nai because people were also not buying because people were at home. They don't need shoes. You know, it's like, okay, so what's going to happen? But then yeah. But then things started to change a little bit and people started to buy.

Paula: And then it was like a huge boom in 2021. I think that people like, okay, so I need shoes. And everybody start started buying shoes. It was crazy. Like 2021 and 2022 were like the 2 years that we sold like the most. It was crazy. And then when the Ukrainian war started, we just felt like, okay, maybe also in Germany, we had an impact of the sales. It decreased a lot because because I think that German people is also more concerned about their future, you know, and I don't know.

Paula: We we saw, like, something changed. I I I don't know exactly what it is, but I think it's because of the war. People are more insecure about their lives and everything. And we saw that. Okay. So 2023, it's 2023 was more challenging in terms of sales for us. And I think for business in general. Although I think that as we are a sustainable brand and vegan, I think that we have a target.

Paula: Right? And people, you know, they know us and they are our customers. So we continue, of course, to to sell well. But we saw that we have a lot of changes here also in 2020. Of course, it was huge in revenue, but it was also huge in costs because of the cost of energy and everything, and also the shipping and all the impact that we have in 2022. I mean, it's like crazy years, you know, it's not like, okay, so we are like in a balance. It's not like this. Every year, it's something different, you know. I think that businesses today are always like, oh my god, this it's not stable.

Paula: You know? I feel this in my I don't know. But I think that's when I talk with other business owners, they have like the same experience. You know, it's not so easy. Every year we have a surprise. You know? It's crazy.

Dennis: It's crazy to know when you look at the website of any kind of business, like, anything you see external, the website looks the same like last year. In the in the stores, you see similar products. But what happens in the background is just so different from one one year to the other depending on, like, all the kind of challenges being thrown in your way. You Yeah. You also mentioned, like, your focus on having vegan shoes but also making them sustainable. Like, selecting vegan products is 1 because you're well, it's a yes no decision. What do you make, or how do you ensure that your products are the most sustainable they can be?

Paula: This is a huge challenge. I think it's the biggest challenge that we have because vegan is not sustainable per itself. You know, it's like not it's not the same concept, right? I think that when we started the project, we had one purpose that was we want to be a vegan brand. So the shoes don't have anything from animal origin. Right? But of course, it was also a process for us, you know, because, okay, so how can we make the materials more sustainable, right? Because we want also to give different options to the customers, right? But then we saw that a lot of different materials started to emerge in the market like the pinatext and the apple skin. And also we have in Portugal the cork, you know, and the corn leather. I mean, there is now a lot, a lot of options. If you ask me if they are 100% sustainable, they are not.

Paula: They are not. We know that, but it's very difficult to have a perfect plant based pair of shoes, you know, without a little bit of polyester, even if it's recycled, you know, that is the truth. So, but what we do, we are always like seeking for more and more sustainable materials. This is something that is also a mission for us now, you know, but it's not so easy to have like materials with resistance to make a good pair of shoes, you know. And also they are made in Portugal and they are expensive and, you know, you have to give a good solution for the customer. So, I mean, it's not easy. It's a challenge to have good materials to be sustainable, made in Portugal. You know, it's a lot, you know? But I think that what we need to have in our mind is that this is a journey.

Paula: I think that the industry is also evolving, you know, because there is a lot of innovation now. And I think it's really important innovation to build more and more sustainable materials. And I think that industry is very aware of that, you know. And also because they are aware of that because the consumer people are asking for that. They want more sustainable products, right? So I think this is a journey and it's not easy. We are not perfect, but I think nobody is, you know, we are just seeking the best way to be more sustainable and do the things right. It's a journey. It's not something that's okay.

Paula: So today, I'm, like, 100% bulletproof. It's not like that, you know. So yeah. But I think it's it's a journey.

Dennis: And it's also nice that you that you connected to your mission. You mentioned you had your satellite as a vegan brand, and you incorporated more and more to become more and more sustainable. And that's also one of your mission to become a more sustainable brand. Give us an outlook into the future. How would you envision, Nae, coming in the next 5 to 10 years? What would you envision your brand to be?

Paula: I want that Nae to be more sustainable, still, you know, like working on this process. And this is a process, and I think it will never finish, you know, because there are so many aspects that we can improve. You know, we cannot say that, okay, so we just need to do this. No, there is a lot of things that we can do to make the brand more sustainable. There is one thing that I want to do for the next year that is recycle the shoes that the customers don't want anymore. And this is not so easy because there isn't a process to recycle shoes. It's not easy, you know, because you have to dissemble the shoes and then you just have to separate all the the parts and put it in the right place when it's recyclable because sometimes it isn't, you know. So recycle the shoes, it's something that we want to do in the next years, you know? And also, I think that we want to make shoes for children because we have a lot of parents that ask us to also to have vegan shoes for their kids.

Paula: And this is a project also that we want to work on. And I think that the main challenge is I need that Nae be more comfortable when we say that, okay, so Nae is sustainable. You know, I think that we still have a lot of work to do to achieve that. And I think that is our main goal for the next 5, 10 years.

Dennis: Beautiful. You know? No. I like the part, especially when you say that you want to take the shoes back and recycle them. I've seen, like, more and more brands do something like this. And, like, some have have, like, then even, like, more, like, lofty goals afterwards, like, starting with the recycling. And the next step is, okay. How can we make these products truly circular? Which then also shifts, like, okay. How do we need to design the shoes to make them in a different way that we can make them circular and just completely, like, close the loop? It should be super I'm I'm pretty sure that something like once you make the shoes more recyclable and take them back, that's probably something that you will work on next as well.

Dennis: Yes. But super tough to achieve as well.

Paula: Yes. Yeah. It's a challenge.

Dennis: No. But sweet. I love the sustainable part, especially, like, the shift in focus, like, combining, like, both vegan and sustainable. Now for for anyone listening to, to us right now, what would be the best way to get our hands on name, Vegan Shoes?

Paula: Okay. So we have an online website. Okay. So we sell all over the world. We work with several marketplaces with a lot of marketplaces, in fact, also a little bit all over the world. And then we have a physical store in Lisbon, 2 physical stores in Lisbon. And, yeah, I think that like in terms of main channels, it's like the online because we cannot be everywhere. And I don't think that ever we are going to be a brand with stores.

Paula: You know, we are not going to be a big brand. We are going to be a local brand. And, of course, we are going to sell online. And that is a good way for the customer to get our shoes. I think it's the best way. And also, we have the B2B, of course. We sell for other shops also in several countries. So but we still have a lot of work to do in this, you know, like commercial work that we need to develop in the next years.

Paula: Especially in the stores, I think. Because things changed a lot and we need to get a game and to sell in more and more stores.

Dennis: Nice. So we put the links into the show notes also. Nivegan dotcom, if I remember correctly, for the website. Dot com. Yes. And it's for we'll see if we can put a lot of links into the notes as well where people can find the the stores or the resellers.

Paula: Yes. Yes. Of course.

Dennis: Before we go to the next part and the reflections on on your personal life as well, was there anything that I forgot to ask you about, Nhi? Was there anything that you would like to share as well?

Paula: Well, I think that for the people there listening to us, one of my experiences in this project was I learned a lot, you know, especially in about the decisions that we make and the impact that they have in our lives and in others' lives, you know, and in the nature and other people's lives. And so I think that one of the main things was the learning that I have. I am always learning about things. And I think that I am more aware and more conscious about the decisions that I make, you know, The way that I eat or the way that I wear clothing, the way that I buy stuff. So I think that is one of the things that I think it's very, very important. It's to be more conscious about the decisions that we make. Like small decisions, sometimes they have a huge impact. And if everybody makes good decisions or better decisions because nobody's perfect, of course.

Paula: But, you know, if we are starting to implement like small good decisions, they will have a huge impact, you know. And I started to do this. And what I think it's that it would be very good. And I think that this is happening a little bit with also with social media. People are getting more aware of and they are having more information about everything. Right? So I think that people are making more good decisions when they buy, when they eat, or whatever, you know, when they travel. So I think self consciousness is the best way to, you know, to improve our lives and everybody's lives, you know, and the impact that we have.

Dennis: Nice. Sounds super similar to to my journey as well. When we do, like, all the research into, like, different brands and the different materials, like, basically, anything we're interested in to help people make a bigger positive impact. I'm always, like, super curious. It's like, oh, I didn't know about this or that. And there's, like, so many parts. It's like, when you think about what you know and what you don't know, it's super tough to think about what you don't know. And I think, like, for example, materials, like, I know this material is sustainable or not.

Dennis: That's something you can research. But sometimes you might not even know, like, what other materials exist and whether they're sustainable or not. So it's, like, a lot of a lot of awareness. It's what also happened to me, like, reading through all the articles from our amazing writers. I was like, oh, wow. And just just learning so much along your journey, which is awesome. Yeah. Now for the final question already.

Dennis: If you had one tip to share with our audience how we could become more impactful, what would your number one tip be?

Paula: I think it's a little bit of what I said before. It's to be more auto-conscious, you know? Like be more aware of the decisions that you make and the impact that they have. So I think that it's just like before you do something, you just think about the impact that you are doing, you know? And I think this is the best tip for everybody is, like, be more conscious about the things that and the decisions that you do. It's like I think it's the best tip that I can give today.

Dennis: Awesome. No. Thanks. Thanks so much, Paula. Thanks so much for all the work you're doing with Nae as well.

Paula: You're welcome. Thank you very much for having me.

Dennis: My pleasure. And to everyone else, thanks so much for listening to us as well, and stay impactful

Dennis: Hello and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I'm your host, Dennis Kamprad. And today, we are joined by Andrew Kroes from Because International. Andrew, welcome.

Andrew: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

Dennis: My pleasure. Now before we go and tell your journey and your story, give us a brief overview. What is Because International and what are you doing there?

Andrew: Yeah. Because International you know, if I start really top level, our mission is all about global poverty alleviation. And that's a big broad mission, and we'll talk more about, like, where we specialize. But poverty alleviation both in the sense of believing that kids and families deserve to have those immediate needs met, especially in cases where they can't provide that for themselves. So meeting those immediate needs, daily needs, but then also long-term empowerment. How do we solve the issue of global poverty? Multidimensional, lots of ways to do that. But knowing that job creation, economic empowerment, having a steady income, skills development, those sorts of things are incredibly important for that long-term empowerment. So hitting kinda both of those angles within this, again, broad, big vision scope of poverty alleviation.

Dennis: Awesome. So basically helping people immediately who are in poverty, but then also trying to make sure that this doesn't happen in the future, and then I might just not need your help anymore.

Andrew: Exactly. And, again, we'll talk about, I guess, the ways we go about that because, again, these are big topics. So, you know, and we're not a we're not a huge organization. So where do we focus in? But, yeah, at the top at the top level, that's the idea.

Dennis: Sweet. No. I'm super excited already jumping a little deeper. But before we go in and tell, like, about all the progress and all the things that you do with Because International, let's rewind slightly and give us a quick overview. What did you do before Because International, and what's your background here?

Andrew: Yeah. And if I can just take a couple minutes and tell a condensed story of who we are. Because I think understanding what we do in a lot of ways, it's a function of the story and who we are. And our story begins with really just a couple of best friends. So in 2nd grade, I met a kid named Kenton. We went to grade school together. Through high school, graduated, went to college, went to university together, and graduated. And from there, our lives diverged a little bit.

Andrew: I had a business background, business degree. Kent always knew he would do something probably in more the humanitarian nonprofit space, so it took a couple years traveling. And one of those stints was at an orphanage in Kenya living and working there. And and at this orphanage, the the people who ran the orphanage, they didn't didn't have a lot of money to provide for basic needs of the kids. And there was one day in particular, a Sunday morning, he was walking to church with the kids down a dirt road, and there was a a little girl in a white dress next to him. And he looked down at her, and for the first time, he noticed something. Mhmm. And specifically, he noticed her shoes.

Andrew: They were way too small. They were so small they had actually cut the front off of the shoes so her toes could stick out and she could continue to wear them. Mhmm. And that's when, really, for the first time, he thought about shoes in particular as it relates to kids struggling with poverty. And he talked to the orphanage directors, found out that, you know, they would get donations of shoes, but, like, they never had the right numb you know, the right number, the right type, the right size. They're used in a lot of cases, so they fall apart. And he just thought, maybe there's a better way here. And there's so much innovation in the world.

Andrew: Right? Like, there's always a newer, better gadget, a newer, better thing for especially for us solving an additional problem we have. But if I'm honest, those problems are probably becoming less and less important. Whereas you have people around the world who need innovation most, and we're not necessarily focusing on them. So that was the inspiration that he had originally. How can we really direct that innovation toward those that and who needs it more than kids and families, kids especially struggling to meet those basic needs. Mhmm. So he he came back from his traveling, told me about this idea, told me about his vision, got me on board, and that was really the start of the idea for a shoe, a shoe that could adjust and expand. So a shoe that was durable enough to last for years, but also would grow with the foot of a child.

Andrew: That was the idea that really launched what we're doing today. That simple idea of, in many ways, Kenton just wanting to help his friends, get some shoes to his friends that would, that would serve them well.

Dennis: Can you still remember the situation that you've been asked to to join Because International? Like, what was going through your head? And what did you do, and kind of what was your professional experience at that moment?

Andrew: So I definitely do remember. I remember him telling me, hey. I'm I'm coming home. It'd been a couple years. And he told me, I miss Idaho too much. I, you know, I miss I miss home. So I don't think I can do this for my career, but I have an idea. I remember him telling me that.

Andrew: So we got together, and we caught up, and then he told me about this idea, showed me his journal, showed me some of his drawings. And I'll be honest, I was like, you know what? This is different. No one has ever done this before. Is this a good idea? Is this possible? But I definitely remember that conversation, seeing the inspiration, the vision that he had, and then getting excited about doing stuff with my friend. Yeah.

Dennis: How did you go along from then? From having this conversation, being excited about helping create some great product that can grow with the kids with the shoes being durable, and then to get it started and and joining the Cross International.

Andrew: Yeah. So it was a slow journey. I would love to say that from there, we just, like, made it happen. It was an overnight success, but that's not the case. I mean, it's it's usually a grind and it requires a lot of perseverance. And and it started with again, I mean, we were a couple couple of guys in our early twenties. We had no money. We had zero experience with footwear.

Andrew: No connections. Really, it was just this idea. And what did we start by doing? We went in Kenton's garage, and we grabbed some old shoes and materials, and we tried to make something. We tried to turn this idea into a reality as embarrassing as it was, and we still have those early prototypes of us chopping things up and gluing things and using these push pins. And and a lesson with that, I think, is if you're gonna try something, sometimes you gotta take action and start small, and you're gonna be embarrassed. Yes. And you're not gonna be good at it. Like, you've got to be willing to suck at something new sometimes in order to make something happen long term, as tough as that can be to, you know, show people this thing, this idea, this thing you're working on when you know it's far from perfect.

Dennis: Yeah. No. It's like this this kind of saying, like, the first product or the first iteration kind of has to be embarrassing. And then

Andrew: It has to be. Otherwise, you took too long. Yeah.

Dennis: Then you have something that you can put in front of those who will use it, get their feedback, and iterate. Which is also quite a nice transition to okay. The first product, you're embarrassed. You you put it together as 20 yards in your garage, if I remember correctly. How did you how did you go ahead and and iterate then along the way to to get the product that you're having now?

Andrew: Right. So, I mean, I think that was an important step that we tried, but also it demonstrated to us, we need help. Like, we're not gonna be able to do this thing ourselves. And maybe, maybe the the the way we can have the most impact is to give the idea away. Mhmm. So for a couple of years, you know, worked on connecting with footwear companies, trying to share this vision with them, even with this idea that, like, you can use this idea as a profitable thing as well, but we would love for you to have some sort of give back mechanism. We would love for you to incorporate this humanitarian side of it. But no one wanted anything to do with it.

Andrew: I don't know how much of that was the idea and how much of that just our effectiveness of of being able to connect and share that idea with the right people. But it really took about 5 years. So well, about a year after the idea, because international was formed. So so in 2009, set up a nonprofit with kind of this vision of what it could be. But it took until, like, 2,011, 2012 before we connected with some shoe designers who thought it was possible. Mhmm. And we're willing to come alongside, sketch some ideas out, build some prototypes, which eventually led us to a 100 pairs that were made manually and took those back to Kenya and distributed those and then getting to a production version. But it was about 5 years of trial and error perseverance.

Andrew: Again, we had our day jobs for sure. We had, busy lives, starting families. But slowly by slowly, a little bit of momentum, a little bit of perseverance. Yeah.

Dennis: Was it also one of the pivotal moments for the organization that you had, like, working together with a shoe designer, working together with some of experience in the field, and then actually having these 100 pairs bring them to those in need and seeing how they react to them?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. There are as I look back at our history, there are a number of pivotal moments. Mhmm. And early on, you know, we talked about a few of those. That original idea Kenton you know, that inspiration Kenton had as he's walking down the road to, you know, telling me about it and us going in his garage and then really connecting with that first designer who sketched some things out, showed us that, yeah, we do think this is possible. And then getting our hands on, you know, those first handmade prototypes, getting those distributed. Yeah.

Andrew: These are definitely pivotal moments along the way.

Dennis: Nice. So that was around 2011. Walk us along the journey from you mentioned there's, like, a few more pivotal moments. I would imagine there's quite a few challenges as well. So from 2011 until 20, 2024, basically now, what would you say were the biggest biggest moments, like pivotal challenges, and how did you overcome them?

Andrew: Some of those pivotal moments are exciting, and some of those are absolutely challenges that require you to pivot because of what you're learning and because of what you're running up against. But a lot of great exciting moments as well. I mean, from there, we were able to get to production Mhmm. Do a several 1,000 pair production run-in about 2,013. Mhmm. And then we're getting them distributed. You know, we we're not gonna travel you know, we don't have the budget to travel and go to different locations to get these distributed. So we're trying to partner with people who are already serving kids around the world, who are already looking to provide shoes.

Andrew: So will you take them on, you know, a, you know, a church missions trip or a nonprofit that, you know, serves an orphanage or a school? Will you take these? And and we did that. Dozens of pairs, maybe maybe up to 50 pairs, a 100 pairs at a time. And over a couple of years, we're able to, distribute a few 1,000 pairs. But in specifically, in April of 2015, probably the biggest pivot definitely the biggest pivotal moment in terms of the history because the story went out. The story got viral, and we and this was, like, Kenton being willing to tell this story to anyone, telling it to a very small group of people. Someone knew someone who knew some someone who I think had a daughter who, worked at a local, news agency. And they ran a story, a small story that then got passed along, and we basically went viral overnight. And over the course of a weekend in April of 2015, we were able to raise quite a lot of money, a lot of attention, overwhelming at the same time because it was still kind of an idea without a business or, you know, without a full system or organization around it.

Andrew: But it was shortly thereafter that, Kent and I both decided to do this full time and really make it into everything that we thought it could be.

Dennis: How did that impact the work with Because as well for you? Did you see that, like, now that you could focus full time on it with all the help from all the people who who believed in your cause and wanted to help you, that it really propelled your mission forward?

Andrew: And that was the thing. It was like, we've got maybe not like this one time opportunity. This is a huge opportunity. This is kind of a make it or break it moment. And that caught I so I had been working at, you know, a software startup for about 9 years. Definitely had a career going there. Kenson had been working at a local university, pastored a church. So, again, there were things that we were giving up by going into this thing just all in.

Andrew: And even looking back or from the outside looking in, people would be like, man, that was a huge risk you took. I took, like, a 70% pay cut with a lot it's just a lot of question marks around what was gonna happen, but at the same time I know for me personally, I think you tend to regret the things you don't try. And I I just know looking back, if we have had that opportunity and not made the most of it, I would have looked back and thought, what if? Mhmm. What, you know, what what could it have been? And to be able to do this with, you know, with my best friend, pretty special. So to be able to take that leap and it was hard. And, again, lots of other challenges along the way as we've grown it into what it is today. But as I look back now with the 100 of thousands of pairs that we've been able to distribute in over a 100 countries, we now make our shoes completely in Mombasa, Kenya. We have a special place in our heart, a dedication to Kenya given that was where the inspiration for the shoe originated.

Andrew: It's been, again, such a special impactful journey, and at the same time, so much work to do. And there's and this is simple work, but it's also complicated. And there's there's still so much to do, and there's so much to, also to learn.

Dennis: Yeah. No. It's like you're saying, Kenya is, like, a special place in your heart as well. I mean, I've got, like, a little Yeah. Kenya as well. So I lived in in E10 in Kenya for quite some time. I was training with the elite athletes there, just long distance running.

Dennis: And when you mentioned, like, the people without choice, that's also even an issue with the elite athletes and everyone else in the village. Like, the kids generally didn't have any shoes. And even the elite athletes, they were trying to find any kind of shoes that they could hopefully fit or not. And one of the big things that's always happening with athletes, like, visiting from other countries, Always collecting shoes to try to take them with them, to bring them to even to to the village where all the elite long distance runners from Kenya. So it feels, like, super, yeah, connected. And I also see, like, okay. This is just, like, one subgroup who are just the most elite, the most known from from a sports perspective from the country. And I'm seeing okay for everyone else, not just in Kenya, but then also all across where where there's poverty.

Dennis: That, like, not having shoes is more like the norm than than the exception.

Andrew: I love that connection. And, again, it's it's a simple thing. And it started with a simple idea of of, again, like Kenton seeing a need, wanting to help his friends, coming back, rallying, you know, his own friends and, you know, me primarily being included in that. So, again, like, it's a simple issue, but there's also complexity. So why do kids need shoes? Well, a lot, you know, a lot of kids do okay without shoes. And at the same time, there are a lot of kids who live in environments where, you know, a simple injury can lead to infection. There are soil transmitted diseases. There are parasites.

Andrew: Or just even the pain and discomfort of having to exist in a dangerous environment, having to walk long distances to school, so something as simple as a pair of shoes, is that solving all of their problems? Absolutely not. But it's a small thing that can make a meaningful difference in their lives. So, again, just trying to trying to do our part, trying to learn along the way, trying to focus in on, you know, shoes being one aspect of, again, this top level vision of of global poverty alleviation.

Dennis: Which is a great transition again. So, basically, starting with the first 100 pairs of shoes that were that worked. Let's put it like this. To not just, like, even 2 years later, I'm going up to a 1000 to now you mentioned, like, 100 of thousands of pairs of shoes across many, many different countries. Beyond shoes, what what else is happening? What else are you doing with? Because I heard you had an exciting week for yourself.

Andrew: It's been kind of a journey in evolution. And in many ways, you have to understand our story to understand why we are even doing the things that we're doing. Because from those initial distributions, we then thought, how can we make broader impact? Are we just gonna be a shoe and, again, we could just be a shoe nonprofit. There's a lot of need there, and there's something to be said for staying focused. But we thought the first best next step would be, let's make the shoes where they're needed most. So setting up production in Africa, that was a big deal. It was a lot of work, but it also has been work that I mean, it's paid off and it's been very impactful. Again, not only having the shoes there and having those distribution networks, but creating creating jobs.

Andrew: So providing jobs through the production of our shoes. And then from there, we learned a lot. Like, you know, we get a lot of expertise in setting up kind of this business model, this this distribution network within Africa, and we started having individuals come to us and wanting some mentorship, wanting to understand, you know, what what have we learned? What can we share? And we did that informally a bit, and it was about 5 years ago Mhmm. That, we had enough people asking for this. We started thinking about it. We started talking about it. And what if we put a little program together where we could support innovators, entrepreneurs located within these communities who understand these problems best? You know, Ken came in. He brought in a certain perspective, and we've been able to create something impactful off of that.

Andrew: But there's a ton of local entrepreneurs, innovators, business owners who are solving problems. So they're using business to solve important problems, and then they're also creating jobs, which, again, that goes into the importance of job creation for that, you know, long term economic empowerment and getting out of that cycle of poverty. So what if we came alongside and provided them a bit of support, some training, some some coaching, a little bit of funding, some other networking opportunities to help them take advantages of various opportunities they may be facing or overcome challenges with a little bit of support? A lot of these entrepreneurs can grow that much faster and create impact. And that was really the idea of the birth of the Because Accelerator that we've been running for 5 years now. And we run cohorts every year. Mhmm. We focus on a smaller number of entrepreneurs that we've we're confident can be high impact. And to date, we've worked with about a 115, and now we just have another cohort of of about 25.

Andrew: So we're up to a 140, 150 entrepreneurs that we've worked with over the past 5 years that, again, each of them running businesses that are solving important problems, creating jobs. And that really gets us to this kinda multifaceted approach with poverty alleviation, meeting those immediate needs, especially for kids, but then also focusing on those long term solutions as it relates to poverty, the need for jobs.

Dennis: Yeah. Beautiful. I really like the the pattern when you're focusing on the entrepreneurship and the need for jobs. Because one thing that I remember quite vividly is that when there's no job opportunities, people become so much more entrepreneurial. And in this little town, besides all the elite athletes, like everyone else, it felt like they had their own company, they had their own little farm, they had their own kind of work. There was besides the teachers or the policemen or the people in the in the banks, it felt like there was no one really employed in any kind of formal position. Everyone else was super entrepreneurial. That's why it's awesome to hear also that you're focusing on helping these people and able to become more successful entrepreneurs and have a bigger impact as well.

Andrew: That's the thing. Bigger impact. I mean, there's a lot of direct impact that we are making with the shoe and that we can make. But in terms of leverage, how much more impact can we make if we can find incredible people doing incredible things and just provide them a little bit of extra support? And then let them create that impact, be the hero, make the change. We're honored to be a part of that. But, collectively, we can make so much more impact than trying to do it ourselves, especially given the fact that, you know, they have that local knowledge. They understand things we don't understand. They're setting an example for future generations who are living in those areas of what's possible, what they can be as they grow up, and they find problems that they can solve creating businesses.

Dennis: If there wasn't so much negative connotations to the word, it sounds like it's kind of like a pyramid scheme, but in the best best way possible. Not yeah. At the top, you enable people, those enable even more people, and it just spreads from there.

Andrew: It absolutely can. I again, I think, you know, part of that is creating that support structure, and part of it is cultural change. It's showing what's possible.

Dennis: Now if you look a little bit more into the future, you started with with these expandable shoes that are super durable and they grow with with the feet of the kids. You went a little further 5 years ago and started teaching people a bit more about entrepreneurship, about being successful in business with their own business having a positive impact. How would you envision the future of of Because? What are your plans here?

Andrew: Even though, again, we've distributed 100 of 1000 of pairs in over a 100 countries, we're really scratching the surface as it relates to global shoelessness. And that's both, like, people struggling with, like, chronic poverty as well as, like, disaster relief sort of environments. And there's so many great applications for footwear that can adjust to the foot of a growing child or even adjust to the foot of someone whose foot isn't growing because it's just easier to distribute a shoe, but you don't have to figure out all the sizing ahead of time. So that's an interesting application that we've come up against. But it all comes back to you know, in some ways, we have thought about all these different possibilities with Because International as we've grown. So it's it's almost like we've expanded in certain ways. But I think in the coming years, we're gonna get even more focused. Because, again, there's so much opportunity for our shoes.

Andrew: So looking at specific countries, so in Kenya specifically, you know, we we we already are very committed there. But working with some local partners, we've been able to quantify. There's about 600,000 rural Kenyan kids who don't have a pair of shoes that fit properly. Mhmm. And they're struggling because of that. And and let's let's address that. Let's address that in the next couple of years.

Andrew: And then let's set up some manufacturing processes in other countries and go one country at a time while also making sure that, you we're not just leaving. We're not just picking up and leaving, but we're maintaining. And then in addition, these large scale relief and development efforts, instead of doing, you know, tens of thousands, 100 of 1,000 of pairs every year, let's get to 1,000,000 of pairs every year. And we've been rapidly innovating the shoe. We've been through a number of iterations over the years, and we've got yet another iteration coming out that is better than ever. More functional, more durable, more cost effective, easier to produce. And this version of the shoe, I'm confident, is gonna be game changing in terms of getting us to millions and millions of pairs per year. And then on the flip side with the entrepreneur support, again, continue to expand that work, but with a little bit more focus in terms of the types of entrepreneurs that we can provide the most value, where they're located.

Andrew: So again, it's been kind of an exploration of what's possible. Then I think in the coming years, there's gonna be some focusing in. But in focusing, we're going to be able to have more impact.

Dennis: That sounds super exciting. Now for everyone listening and watching, what would be our best way to support you?

Andrew: Well, there's a number of ways. I mean, we are a nonprofit, and therefore, there is a donation model that helps us get shoes to kids direct our distributions. So if you go visit our website, you can, you know, search Because International, search the shoe that grows, put our social media accounts. But, yeah, directing us to the website to these various campaigns, I talked about this focus on Kenya. And the network, the connections, the funding, the support that we need in order to hit this goal. We also need connections to, you know, larger partners funding sources who, would come alongside and help make this a reality. Help us spread the word. Help us help us spread the word about what's happening.

Andrew: So, you know, share this, share this episode. Find other ways that we've told our story and share it. We think it's pretty fun, unique thing that we're doing. You know, the shoe itself is pretty interesting. And then also the work with entrepreneurs, we think is pretty inspirational as well given the problems that that's solving. Yeah. And then finally, there's there's also some real tangible ways with the entrepreneurs we support. A lot of that is volunteer coaches, advisors, mentors, people with specific business experience that will come alongside in a virtual capacity usually to provide some one on one support.

Andrew: And it's super fun. You can, again, mentor. You can teach teach someone something valuable, but also have a multicultural experience. There's there's so much value in that process. So if you are interested in, again, potentially mentoring, supporting one of our entrepreneurs, you can visit our website, and there's ways to get in touch with us there.

Dennis: Oh, wow. I imagine it must be quite fulfilling, also, seeing the direct impact you can have on the life of of one person you're mentoring.

Andrew: It is. And it speaks to, again, like, we're trying to do things at scale in order to maximize impact. But there's also so much beauty and value in a 1 on 1 connection. Yeah.

Dennis: Yeah. Now before we go into the final part, like, firstly, we'll put all the information also in the show notes also so I can reach Because International. Before we go into the final part and reflecting a little bit about your learnings as well, is there anything that we forgot about speaking about that I should have asked you?

Andrew: Yeah. I feel like I talked a lot, and I, shared I shared all the details of the story. Again, it's it can be hard at a glance to understand this nonprofit who has this footwear thing, this shoes thing, but then also runs a business accelerator. But, hopefully, by hearing the story, the journey to evolution in the work, it's understandable in terms of, how we got there, how we do both of these things, and how we believe so strongly in both of those strategies as it relates to poverty alleviation.

Dennis: Yeah. Basically, one with the shoes to help people in immediate need and the business accelerator to help eradicate the immediate needs for the shoes in the long term as well.

Andrew: Exactly. Cool.

Dennis: Let's let's make a little switch now and have have a look at some of the reflections. Now what would you say since working with Because International since trying to solve poverty, since trying to alleviate poverty in these places, how would you say has that impacted your personal life?

Andrew: Personally, you know, it's definitely been a personal journey in terms of hearing the idea originally and providing some support in those early years when things are moving very slowly to then making the leap career wise in 2015 and everything that's followed. And with that, I've always been someone who's been purpose oriented even though the first half of my career was more focused on maybe hitting some financial goals, making sure I could, you know, take care of my family, giving me in many ways some of the options, some of the ability then to make that switch that I did about 9 years ago. But I would say as I reflect back, a key piece of it personally is is starting with yourself. Now by all means, you don't have to arrive. You don't have to be perfect in order to do to do good. I mean, there's so many opportunities around you. There's so many small ways on a daily basis that you can make an impact, that you can make someone's day a little bit better, a kind word, a kind comments. This is simple, powerful impact.

Andrew: And then as you're looking to scale that, as you're looking to tackle big complex issues like poverty alleviation, There's also a lot of value in, again, like, having humility, starting with yourself, knowing that if you don't take care of yourself and put yourself in a position where you can be more and more impactful, then you're gonna struggle. You're gonna have a hard time. You're gonna burn out. So it is that kind of almost paradox of making sure that you're taking care of yourself so that you can give to others, that you have your own house in order, that you're reflecting on, where am I wrong? Where my own pride be getting in the way? Where am I neglecting the most important things in my own life? And how ultimately is that gonna get in the way of me being a a blessing and being impactful for others?

Dennis: Sounds quite quite some parallels as well in your journey and mine. Like, I started working as a consultant. And these couple of years working as a consultant here in Switzerland, they also really enabled me not to focus on anything financially because I knew, okay, that part was more or less covered from the beginning. And for the longest time, I didn't even, yeah, didn't even care too much about this. And even now I got, like, a massive pay cut in comparison to what was beforehand. But then working on a purpose and making a big impact that's such a bigger, so much more important driver than just the financials in the end.

Andrew: Yeah. And in many ways, again, like, it's not you know, the finances don't matter. Like, ultimately, you do have to have enough to be able to live and to not be distracted by a lack of money. But there's also with a lot of people, there's never enough money. But I do think getting to the point where where you can find that level of content and then satisfaction and then shift that focus. And by meeting, I guess, those goals, being then able to shift your focus to other people because, you know, I I have enough. I have enough now, and now it's time to really focus on giving back.

Dennis: Yeah. No. It's always good also knowing when enough is enough. Now Yes. Let's already go into the final question. If you had to share one tip with our audience to become more impactful, what would your number one tip be for us?

Andrew: Yeah. And I think it'll relate in certain ways to what I just said. But I would say move forward, take action, but with humility. So again, you know, we can focus on all that's happened with Because International over the last 5 or 10 years. But those first 5 years, not a lot happened even though there was some consistent effort, you know, even as, you know, Kent was doing his best. You know, he had told me about, about the idea. We had reached out to shoe companies. We had tried to find people who could help make the idea a reality.

Andrew: We were taking action. We were doing what we could, but we were also, I would say, take action with humility. And humility meaning that you don't have all the answers. You're gonna let the process teach you. You're not gonna get to a point where let me put it this way. I think there's people who don't take action, and also they don't have humility. You know, the keyboard warriors that really aren't aren't doing much but criticizing. And then you have people maybe on the other end who are, like, boldly moving forward and taking action, but they have no humility.

Andrew: They think they have all the answers, and they risk doing a lot of harm also maybe while doing some good because they think they have it all figured out. And I think the sweet spot is in the middle of that. Take some action, but do it humbly. Especially when it comes to big issues like poverty alleviation, these are complex issues. This idea of what does it mean to help someone? Like I said earlier, there's really simple powerful ways that you can help people in your day to day. You can find those moments. When it comes to large scale change and help, like, these are complex issues, and you have to have a humble mindset. You have to know that I'm gonna take action, I'm not gonna be perfect, And therefore, I might be a little embarrassed, and I might even be a little bit ashamed when I make some mistakes.

Andrew: But that's part of that humility of of letting the process teach you.

Dennis: Beautiful. Thanks. Thanks so much for sharing that. Thanks so much for joining us today, Andrew, and for all the work that you're doing with Because International.

Andrew: Well, thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Dennis: My pleasure. And to everyone else, thanks so much for joining us as well. And stay impactful

Did you know that about 50% of US produce goes to waste while tens of millions of people suffer from food insecurity? This and so much more is what we'll talk about in our conversation together with Gary Oppenheimer from AmpleHarvest.org! 👇

***

THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS FIRST:

***

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

***

GET THE SAME BACKGROUND ARTWORK:

***

Stay impactful 💚

Did you know that providing basic hygiene needs is one of the best ways to improve the health and well-being of those who are struggling? This and so much more is what you’ll learn in our conversation together with Meghan Freebeck from Simply the Basics! 👇

***

THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS FIRST:

***

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

***

CONNECT WITH US ON OUR OTHER SOCIAL CHANNELS:

***

GET THE SAME BACKGROUND ARTWORK:

***

Stay impactful 💚

Did you know that not all carbon offsets are the same, and that we need to remove our carbon emissions permanently to have a chance to reach our climate goals? This and so much more is what you’ll learn in our conversation together with Paolo Piffaretti from CARBON X! 👇

***

THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS FIRST:

***

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

***

CONNECT WITH US ON OUR OTHER SOCIAL CHANNELS:

***

GET THE SAME BACKGROUND ARTWORK:

***

Stay impactful 💚

Did you know that the number one priority for too many kids going to school is simply to ensure that they are safe? In today's episode, we will share how Michael Finan from Will You Hear Me Now? fights to make schools safer across America. 👇

***

THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS FIRST:

***

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

***

CONNECT WITH US ON OUR OTHER SOCIAL CHANNELS:

***

GET THE SAME BACKGROUND ARTWORK:

***

Stay impactful 💚

Did you know that drones and AI could be amazing tools to restore our forests? Well, this and so much more is what you'll learn in our conversation together with Pascal Asselin from MORFO! 👇

***

THE MOST IMPORTANT LINKS FIRST:

***

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

***

CONNECT WITH US ON OUR OTHER SOCIAL CHANNELS:

***

GET THE SAME BACKGROUND ARTWORK:

***

Stay impactful 💚