The Interim

Today, we're talking to an interim who’s got 18 years of Interim experience and, now in his late 60s, has got wisdom and experience for us all to enjoy.  We are going to debunk some myths and misconceptions about the interim lifestyle, and reveal a fundamental secret of getting assignments. Get ready to challenge your assumptions and discover what truly drives purpose in the dynamic world of interim work.

Tony Martin is a Transformation Programme Director.  He has led major business change programmes in many large multinational companies in the public and private sectors and in many geographies.  I was going to list the change programmes and clients he has worked with but the list got too long.  He's known for his ability to "pull rabbits out of hats," and is currently working at Ineos.  

This is my summary of that conversation with Tony Martin

Debunked some familiar misconceptions about the interim life: 

o   "Work When You Like": Tony refutes this, even though he's been almost consistently employed for 18 years he says that the breaks between assignments are not a holiday, they too have a purpose of recharging and finding the next assignment.

o   Market Fluctuations: While there are perceived quiet periods (summer, Christmas) and busy ones (April, September), Tony stresses that urgent needs mean that opportunities can arise any time of the year. Interims must always be "ready to go."

o   "It's All About Your Network": While networks help, Tony highlights that 11 of his 13 jobs came through agencies, who effectively handle his business development.

Not Limiting Your Market: Tony's advice was to know your strapline or market proposition (his was "I run large complex change programs”) and then advises interims to: 

o   Be sector agnostic.

o   Be open to any geography.

o   Be willing to work on-site if the client requires it, as they are paying the invoice.

o   Avoid the "day rate trap." While having a rate range is important, being flexible for "really interesting" roles can open up more opportunities.

"Rediscover Your Relevance" Business: Tony, with a colleague, has launched a business that helps interims refine their skills, get back into the market, or pivot their careers. Key offerings include mastering strap lines and elevator pitches, LinkedIn and recruiter secrets, resume development, and interview coaching.

Motivation and Purpose: At 69, Tony continues to work because he loves what he does, maintains a strong business edge, and enjoys navigating how organizations tick. He describes this as his fundamental sense of purpose.

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This podcast talks about a top priority for every interim.  Are you clear what your distinct value proposition is, your professional product is, what you can do for a client?  It’s what you do really well and there are people out there who need it.  You know it, recruiters know it and clients hear about it too.  That’s your superpower and it’s the way to find work as an interim.

I am very pleased to be in conversation with David Estyn-Jones.  David is a very experienced Interim, he leads Transformations and Change programme.  His key strengths are keeping things simple, focusing on the right things and building collaboration.

Summary.

·       Journey into Interim. David shares his journey into interim work, highlighting how his project and mission-focused background (including 10 years as an army officer) made it a natural fit. He emphasizes the appeal of variety, adventure, and the thrill of the unknown, noting that experience actually enhances an interim's employability.

·       Lessons learned: David reflects on what he wishes he knew earlier, including the importance of organising your limited company, defining your value proposition, clearly articulating what problems you solve and why you are special, rather than chasing any available work.

·       Continuous professional development: Actively pursuing learning and development, as it's easy for this to fall by the wayside in an interim career.  While interim roles offer inherent learning through exposure to new sectors and ways of working, David stresses the importance of continuous development. He highlights how the interim life pushes professionals to constantly evolve, contrasting it with a potential stagnation seen in permanent roles. 

·       Finding assignments and building your brand: David explains that work comes from a mix of recruiters and networking.  He advises be visible, maintain an active presence on LinkedIn, clearly define your "product" – what you do, the problems you solve, and what makes you unique.  Cultivate Relationships with recruiters and ensure your network understands your value.

·       The Interim Temperament: David emphasises that successful interims are comfortable with uncertainty, embracing the unknown and adapting to diverse work environments.  They are capable of selling themselves and actively seeking new opportunities.  And they know when an assignment is complete and are willing to inform the client, even if it means moving on to an unknown next step. This integrity is part of the premium interims charge.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Interim.  Our purpose is to give you thoughts, feed your curiosity, and energise you for professional success.  Go well.

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What are the 7 habits of highly effective interims?  Today, we're diving deep into the very DNA of what makes an interim truly effective.   We're talking about the unspoken, the invaluable, those habits that truly set apart the highly effective among us.

I am very pleased today to be in conversation with Ben Cowan.  Ben is Head of Practice for Business Transformation at Eton Bridge and has 2 decades of interim recruitment experience.  Eton Bridge is a leading interim management firm, head quartered in the UK and has made placements in 35 countries.  They are known for their people-first culture built on respect, care and building long-term relationships.

This podcast episode pays homage to Stephen Covey's seminal 1989 work, "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," a book that revolutionised self-help and business.  I’ve asked Ben to reflect on the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Interims.

1. Character Traits: Effective interims are confident (not arrogant), impactful, proactive, likable, reliable, and dependable. These qualities are crucial for quickly integrating into new organizations and gaining trust. Ben emphasizes that these traits are rarely visible on a CV but are paramount in real-world interactions.
2. Communication: Clear and effective communication is vital. Interims must be able to put people at ease, reassure clients, and deliver messages effectively at all levels – from the C-suite to the "shop floor." Ben talks about the ability to storytell and paint a clear picture of change or difficult messages.
3. Skills and Experience: While not the only factor, being an expert in one's field and having a unique selling proposition (USP) is critical. The best interims are known for something specific ("what are you famous for?"). It's not just about having the skills, but how they are conveyed and the tangible results achieved (e.g., using "I owned," "I delivered" rather than "I was involved in").
4. Resilience: Interims often enter ambiguous and challenging situations where they are constantly being judged. Adaptability and resilience are key to navigating these environments, challenging the status quo, and accepting situations that may not be ideal. The ability to maintain an "inner strength" and stand behind one's professional opinion, even if it's not immediately accepted, is crucial. Being a problem-solver is also a significant aspect of resilience.
5. Outcomes and Results Focus: Highly effective interims are laser-focused on delivery and achieving strategic outcomes. They bring solutions, are decisive, and operate at pace, often needing to "break eggs to make an omelet" in order to achieve the desired results. Remaining calm under pressure is also linked to this habit.
6. Behaviour When Not in a Role: This habit focuses on how interims manage their time and relationships between assignments. It involves the "art" of gently prompting providers (e.g., quick texts, LinkedIn messages, occasional catch-ups) without being pushy or pestering. It also emphasizes patience, knowing one's worth, and not appearing desperate. Maintaining personal networks and avoiding one-sided relationships is also highlighted.
7. Sharpening Your Saw: The final habit is about continual learning, staying relevant, and evolving one's skillset. This includes staying at the forefront of industry trends, especially in technology, and actively engaging in thought leadership and peer conversations to keep fresh and adapt to the changing business landscape.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Interim.  Our purpose is to give you thoughts, feed your curiosity, and energise you for professional success.

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Are you an interim professional looking to not just survive, but thrive? Join us as we sit down with a very experienced interim sharing his journey from PwC partner into Interim, giving advice about building a successful interim career, prioritizing well-being, and embracing the evolving landscape of fractional.  This episode is about the secrets to sustained success!

Mark Lockton is the founder and CEO of a niche technology consultancy company providing real-world advice to large international clients, basing this on his long career of Interim CIO and CTO roles, as well as senior roles in the big 4 consultancy firms.   

• Much of our conversation was about how we develop our careers, our craft, and how we manage ourselves.  Mark emphasized that becoming a successful executive is a learned skill, acquired through experience.  Interim roles offer a unique opportunity to gain experience across a wide variety of companies and industries, building a broad "tool bag" of skills and insights.  And so Mark has honed his craft - we are always learning.
• Mark highlights the demanding nature of interim roles and shares a powerful lesson from a "partner survival course" at PwC: the importance of establishing "non-negotiables" and boundaries. For him, this means working hard through the week but strictly no work on weekends or during holidays.
• Mark foresees a growing reliance on fractional and interim resources, especially for companies that need senior expertise in areas but cannot afford a full-time hire.
• Mark has great insight into both Interims and the Big Four Consultancies, having been a partner with them).   He noted that many Big Four consultants lack as much real-world, client-side experience as Interims who have "been there, done that," offer practical, experience-proven solutions.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Interim.  Our purpose is to give you food for thought, feed your curiosity, and energise you for professional success.  Go well.

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Are you sure you’re charging your correct day rate?  As an interim executive, setting your day rate can feel like navigating a minefield.  It’s difficult to know.  Head-hunters, client expectations, and the big question, 'What am I actually worth?'  Join us as we pull back the curtain on interim pricing. We’ll talk about how to respond, when to respond and what your response says.

I am very pleased to be in conversation with Nick Diprose.  Nick started his career with British Steel working in large infrastructure projects, and has spent  the last 20 years growing professional services businesses.  He founded Holdsway in 2013 with the goal of promoting interim executives as the ‘expert game changers’ of the economy.  

·       Value over Price: Nick emphasizes that the conversation should start with understanding the client's needs and the value the interim can bring, rather than immediately focusing on price. Interims offer a solution, we’re not a commodity. 

·       Have a Range, But Don't Lead with Price: While it's crucial to have a day rate range in mind, revealing it too early, before understanding the assignment's complexity and scope, can be detrimental. Listen first, then position your value. 

·       Confidence is Key: Projecting confidence in your value is essential. Asking head-hunters what they think you're worth undermines your position as an expert. Know your worth and be prepared to state it (within a range).

·       Market Awareness: The Institute of Interim Management survey can offer some guidance. Experienced recruiters can also provide insights into market rates. 

·       Negotiation is Part of the Game: Pricing is often a negotiation. Don't be afraid to aim high initially, understanding that there might be room for slight adjustments. A price inquiry often signals genuine interest. 

·       Focus on the Right Work: Ultimately, securing the right assignment that aligns with your skills and career goals is an abundant life, even if it means slightly adjusting your rate within your acceptable range.

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Are you sure you’re charging your correct day rate?  As an interim executive, setting your day rate can feel like navigating a minefield.  It’s difficult to know.  Head-hunters, client expectations, and the big question, 'What am I actually worth?'  Join us as we pull back the curtain on interim pricing. We’ll talk about how to respond, when to respond and what your response says.

I am very pleased to be in conversation with Nick Diprose.  Nick started his career with British Steel working in large infrastructure projects, and has spent  the last 20 years growing professional services businesses.  He founded Holdsway in 2013 with the goal of promoting interim executives as the ‘expert game changers’ of the economy.  

·       Value over Price: Nick emphasizes that the conversation should start with understanding the client's needs and the value the interim can bring, rather than immediately focusing on price. Interims offer a solution, we’re not a commodity. 

·       Have a Range, But Don't Lead with Price: While it's crucial to have a day rate range in mind, revealing it too early, before understanding the assignment's complexity and scope, can be detrimental. Listen first, then position your value. 

·       Confidence is Key: Projecting confidence in your value is essential. Asking head-hunters what they think you're worth undermines your position as an expert. Know your worth and be prepared to state it (within a range).

·       Market Awareness: The Institute of Interim Management survey can offer some guidance. Experienced recruiters can also provide insights into market rates. 

·       Negotiation is Part of the Game: Pricing is often a negotiation. Don't be afraid to aim high initially, understanding that there might be room for slight adjustments. A price inquiry often signals genuine interest. 

·       Focus on the Right Work: Ultimately, securing the right assignment that aligns with your skills and career goals is an abundant life, even if it means slightly adjusting your rate within your acceptable range.

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Fractional Interim work. You've heard the buzz, but what exactly is it and how could you be part of this growing trend?  Today I sit down with an expert practitioner, a leading voice in the fractional space, to get the definitive answer. We define the model and discuss secrets of success, listen in.

Today, I'm really pleased to be in conversation with Adrian Wakefield.

Adrian Wakefield is co-founder of The Digital WoW Group, a purpose driven, fractional technology leadership & consulting business.  He has 35 years’ experience in technology-enabled transformation, the past 8 years as an interim. Before that Adrian enjoyed a successful career in manufacturing operations, supply chain and technology ending up as the CIO / Board Director of a global manufacturing/engineering group.

Adrian defined the concept of fractional work as a model where organizations access top-tier talent, without the overhead of full-time employment. H emphasized that successful fractional work is based on a mature relationship between the consultant and the client, emphasizing outcome-driven work rather than simply hours. Adrian discusses the rise of fractional work, and the growing pool of experienced professionals in this field.

I am going to remember Adrian’s motto “You never know where a conversation will go”.  He does it like a master, he talks about listening, being present and unbiased with an altruistic spirit.  It isn’t surprising, is it, that many of these conversations lead to business, I really admire that he doesn’t set-off into them with that defined purpose.

Finally, we explored future trends in the portfolio, interim, and fractional worlds, with Adrian predicting continued growth driven by increasing awareness and acceptance of these flexible working models. He shares his personal mantra of staying present and curious in conversations, emphasizing the value of building genuine relationships. Adrian concluded, reflecting like me about so many people who have helped us, and offering to to connect with individuals interested in exploring fractional work. 

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If you are contemplating your career you may be thinking of working with a coach.  Coaches play a vital role - they are  facilitators, guides, and sounding boards.  Their questioning helps the exploration process, enabling self-discovery and ultimately helping people find clarity, confidence, and direction in their professional lives.

Today, I'm really pleased to be in conversation with David Head.  David is an executive coach and career coach who offers deeply personalized coaching and mentoring. He empowers individuals to maximise their performance and thrive in their careers and to confidently navigate significant career transitions when the time is right.  I am so grateful to have him here today to share his advice and insights with us.

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Join us exploring the increasing trend from traditional careers to flexible, portfolio-based work.  We look into the motivations driving executives towards this dynamic new career, and uncover the practical steps individuals need to thrive make it a success.

I'm in conversation with Caroline McAuliffe.  Caroline is a Senior Partner in Interim Search for Watermark in Sydney.  She’s the co-author of an excellent book called The Rise of the Interim Executive and has been in Interim Search for 18 years.

1.      The Rise of Portfolio Careers: The traditional, linear career path is being replaced by portfolio careers, offering executives more variety, control, and a greater sense of fulfillment in their professional lives.

2.      Practical Steps for Transitioning: 

• Mindset Shift: Executives must adopt a mindset of ownership and self-agency, taking responsibility for their financial stability, professional development, and career progression, unlike the support provided by traditional employers.
• Risk Assessment and Scenario Planning: Understanding one's risk profile, including comfort with potential gaps between assignments and income needs, is crucial.
• Growth Mindset: Embracing openness and curiosity towards new skills and experiences is essential.
• Skills Assessment: Identifying current skills and experience, along with any gaps that need addressing, is vital.
• Defining Values and Success: Understanding personal values and what constitutes success will guide decisions about which opportunities to pursue.
• Financial Planning: Proactive financial planning is a fundamental requirement for managing the variable income streams of a portfolio career.
• Networking: Building a broader and more diverse network beyond one's traditional industry is crucial for securing new opportunities.
• Personal Branding: Actively managing one's personal brand, communicating values and expertise, becomes a daily full-time job.

3.      The Importance of "Superpowers": While executives often possess broad general skills, identifying and articulating specific areas of deep expertise and recent, relevant experience ("superpowers") is key for interim roles. Search firms focus on these recent "currencies" to match candidates with current client needs.  Carolyn talks about Lifelong Learning: Staying current.  Ref earlier podcast with Jacinta Whelan.

4.      Cautionary Advice: 

• Being committed – seeing through an assignment.
• Being open to seeking assistance, such as from executive coaches, is important.
• Being cautious about taking on roles that are not a good fit is crucial for maintaining one's brand and future prospects.

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Today, we talk about financial planning for Interims - how can we handle the fluctuating incomes and the risks that come with our independence.  We are joined by a financial advisor who will give us a financial health check.  He will guide us through how interims need to manage their finances, from budgeting to insurance, and offer invaluable practical advice.

Dominic Brockes has 26 years of financial services experience as an Adviser helping personal and corporate clients.

Dominic focuses on the unique financial requirements of being an Interim such as fluctuating income and the need for proactive financial planning and the lack of financial protections that our permanent colleagues often get without noticing from their employers.  And so we need to make sure we’re doing the sensible things too.

He gives practical advice about budgeting,  an emergency fund, investment strategies (regular savings and lump sums), and understanding salary vs. dividends.

Finally Dominic underlines the importance of protection. The discussion on insurance (life cover, income protection) is crucial and highlights an often-overlooked aspect of financial planning.  Prioritize insurance (protection) before investing. This includes life insurance (to cover debt and provide income for family), income protection (in case of illness or injury), and potentially private medical insurance.

There is lots here to think about, hoping you all weigh it up and know what you need to do.

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