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The Intersection Of Hypnotherapy, Personal Growth, And The Paranormal With Deborah LeBlanc
“You have a choice on how you react to what you think is affecting you.”
In this episode, Nick speaks with Deborah LeBlanc, a certified clinical hypnotherapist and paranormal investigator. They explore the intersection of hypnotherapy, personal growth, and the paranormal, discussing how external energies and generational trauma can affect mental health. Deborah shares her journey into ghost hunting, the importance of recognizing and addressing external influences, and the power of hypnotherapy in healing.
What to listen for:
“I have a very strong faith. I think you have to have faith in order to be a paranormal investigator.”
“I have a right to my own way of thinking. That is one of the most difficult things to teach people.”
“To what end will this bring to you? Suppose it never happened… Then what are you gonna blame? What needs to be healed then?”
About Deborah LeBlanc
Deborah is a certified life and business coach as well as a clinical hypnotherapist. She is the owner of Mind Path Therapies LLC and Five Star Leadership LLC. Deborah lives in the heart of Cajun country with her husband and four dogs.
Resources:
Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!
Thank you for listening!
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Click To View The Episode Transcript
Nick McGowan (00:04.819)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan and today on the show we have Deborah LeBlanc. Deborah, how you doing today?
Deborah LeBlanc (00:16.418)
Doing great, Nick.
Nick McGowan (00:18.851)
I’m excited for us to get into the conversation that we’re going to talk about. There’s a lot that we can get into. So without me just blabbing a little bit, let’s why don’t you get us started? Tell us what you do for a living. And what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.
Deborah LeBlanc (00:34.744)
Let’s see, what I do for a living is I am a clinical, a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I’m also a business and life coach, certified business and life coach. What most people don’t know about me, unless they really know me, is that I do paranormal investigations. So I ghost hunt, just like what you see on television.
Nick McGowan (00:59.143)
Well.
Deborah LeBlanc (01:02.25)
things, you know, what you see is what I do.
Nick McGowan (01:06.749)
Well, I think that will mostly be this podcast episode then. I think that’s one thing that some people, different people live in different camps with that sort of stuff, where they’re like, I don’t believe in it. Other people have seen and felt things and they’re like, how in the fuck can’t you believe in it? Some people are really not receptive to it. They just don’t, they’re not open enough to be able to see or understand those things. And that’s not the throw shade at anybody. But I think there are also some people that are closer to the void that
Deborah LeBlanc (01:10.775)
Ha
Deborah LeBlanc (01:17.272)
Sure.
Nick McGowan (01:35.783)
can experience those things a lot easier. So let’s get into that a little bit because I also really, really enjoy that sort of stuff. What led you to that? Like what happened to open your eyes?
Deborah LeBlanc (01:48.46)
Actually, my middle daughter, who’s since passed away, my middle daughter contacted me one night and she knew of a guy who was a producer of the Fear program that MTV was doing at the time. yeah, she says, she says, hey mom, we’re going to…
Nick McGowan (02:06.941)
Yeah, Rogan. What was that fear factor? Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (02:17.578)
It was Fort Gaines. And she said, we’re going to ghost hunt. said, would you like to come? And I’m always up for an adventure. So I said, sure, ghost hunting, that’s cool. Let’s go. So we got out there and I got hooked from then on. I mean, I started ghost hunting with a disposable camera, a compass, and a set of brass balls. That’s all you needed really to get started.
But ever since that particular night, I’ve been hooked since then. I’ve hunted with groups all over the US, but I’m tied with one group here in Louisiana, and we go to different locations where people contact us and say, I’ve got spirits in my house, I have this demon in my house, can you come and help?
we normally do, especially if children are involved. But you can normally tell by the person that’s sending you the email whether you’re dealing with something that’s viable or something that really needs medical attention.
Nick McGowan (03:18.163)
Hmm.
Nick McGowan (03:30.81)
Yeah.
That’s an interesting thing to think about with the psychology of it, the medical or the mental attention, or the actual, there’s something that’s outside of this realm that is part of this realm at this moment that is affecting. And I think there’s a lot of layers to it. I often think about when I watch different things, some of the stuff we see on TV has to be BS.
There are some things that are actually real and there are certain pieces of it. Like I like to go deeper and find out like I like when people go into different places that have had like mental institutions from the 1920s or 30s that have been shut down for 60, 70 years. You can’t tell me that there’s not energy there. You just can’t. But how does that then affect somebody and how does that tie into how the person works and moves through things?
Deborah LeBlanc (04:02.188)
It is.
Deborah LeBlanc (04:22.219)
you’re right.
Nick McGowan (04:30.387)
And at what point is there a psychological difference? And then there’s a psychic difference. And then there’s an actual entity or some sort of energy that is affecting you. think in a, an easy way to think about it, we’ve all been in a place, probably everybody, I don’t want to make an assumption for every single human, but we’ve probably all been in a place where you just feel a little off. Your intuition is telling you this is a little off. That may be a thing of like this person you’re with is.
not the best or there might be something you can’t see. I’ve been in different spots where I’ve felt things and then I’ve seen things and they tie together. It’s like two and two literally equaled four in that moment. And then there are other times where I’ve noticed that things have happened that I’ve asked, was I a part of that? Was my energy was my trauma was my whatever a part of this and how it all mixed together. Then wondering how people are affected by that. I’ve seen different things where people
go into situation like you’re saying with kids, or kids are widely susceptible to being open to these things, especially in their formative years, between four and eight. But then when they start to get a little older, and like the tween years, I experienced things in my tween years that were really unexplainable. But then how does that affect that person? And how does it tie into our mental health and our healing, which is a thing that honestly, we haven’t actually talked about on this show in close to 150 episodes.
We talk often about trauma. We talk about how people go through things and then how they effectively work through it. But what about the unknown things? Yes, trauma is an unseen thing. You can’t see it, especially generational trauma. You can’t be like, well, my grandpappy from 1842 had this problem and now here it is. But then how do you tie in if there’s an actual entity or a spirit or some sort of energy that’s also infecting you? I guess with that, go.
Deborah LeBlanc (06:23.992)
Well, you know, there are some people that have to this day and I’ve been I’ve been ghost hunting now for I would say going on 29 years. So I have met a lot of people. I have seen a lot of things that were unusual. I have seen a lot of things that were not that unusual that somebody really was blowing out of proportion.
But I did see some things that.
Deborah LeBlanc (06:59.309)
I can’t say they were generational, but I could tell that the person that was experiencing them was messing with things that they shouldn’t have been messing with, like a Ouija board. I’m absolutely against using Ouija boards. Or they were heavy into tarot cards, and that’s how they lived their life, by the tarot cards, instead of just living life.
I mean, there’s certainly for it to be something that’s generational, then you’re talking about an exorcism of sorts, know, something that breaks the ties of that’s followed from, say, one ancestor was cursed and it’s passed on from generation to generation. For example, and mostly it’s not people, it’s land. There are oftentimes people who live on
Nick McGowan (07:40.019)
Hmm.
Deborah LeBlanc (07:58.648)
old Indian burial sites. Their homes were built there and they didn’t realize it. So the land is cursed, quote unquote cursed, until they bring a shaman in there who does his rite of passage for that couple, that piece of property, or whatever it may be, and to appease the spirits that are there. And then everything goes back to normal. So it’s not…
Nick McGowan (08:01.341)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah LeBlanc (08:26.872)
It’s really hard to say how do you get it to stop if it’s generational. One, you always have a choice. You have a choice on how you react to what you think is affecting you. Let’s say somebody always has bad luck and they go, well, my mother always had bad luck. My grandmother always had bad luck. And I heard she was cursed by some gypsy and that was passed on to every female ever born.
Because they believe that, it typically brings that to pass. I believe whatever we put out there in the universe, our own energy, whatever we believe really strongly, we’re going to get. So they believe it, it happens. And it’s a matter of changing their mindset to you have control over your life. It wasn’t your mother or your grandmother.
Nick McGowan (08:58.707)
It’s true then.
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (09:24.958)
I have yet to come across an authentic case of possession. I’m not going to say that. I used to hunt with Ed and Lorraine Warren. And if there were ever demonic cases on this planet, they were around wherever that couple went. They were into really the hardcore. And I knew then that I limited the
types of investigations that I did, because places or people that are demonically possessed, there’s demonic infestation, that takes a certain jeunesse quoi, know, lack of a better term. It’s not at my cup of tea, all right? I know what mine is. I have a very strong faith. I think you have to have faith in order to be in
paranormal investigator, but not to the point where I’m going to be expelling demons or, you know, calling them to the forefront to say, you know, now that you’re here, go. That’s not me. It’s not me. So I can’t say I’ve never seen it. I have seen some wild stuff where Ed and Lorraine were concerned, like a refrigerator completely disappear before my eyes and wind up in the garage.
Nick McGowan (10:37.874)
Mm-hmm
Deborah LeBlanc (10:55.488)
Yeah, yeah, teleportation was, it was, was crazy. And, but I think our own energy has a big part to play in what we manifest in this lifetime. Our own energy, our own beliefs.
Nick McGowan (11:12.615)
Yeah.
Hmm. Hmm. I feel like we could go on so many, so many paths with this that there are certain people that listen to this, this podcast that’ll write, they’ll be in line with us and others might be like, this is a little too far off the beaten path. I think a lot of this really also ties into how we manage our mindset. Cause it is a story, you know, if somebody says this is what
has happened. This is how it is. This is just what we do. This is how you are, etc. We then believe those stories or subconscious says, well, this is what it is. So this is how we roll. We get to change those, we have to be aware of those things to do that. But there are also rather I should say, and there are also other things that can come into play. I appreciate what you’re saying about the demonic sides of this. That’s different than what can seem like a
a looping memory where somebody had this memory in a spot and you can see where they’re like, there’s this little girl that runs around or what have you. That can be one of those looping memories. I had a situation in a building that my grandparents and my aunt owned that was 110 years old. By the time we sold it a few years ago, it was literally the first.
like a town hall place, it was a school, it was a wedding hall, it was all these things in the town and had so many different stories and energies and situations. And there was a woman in a white dress in the back of the, back of one of the basement portions. People would lose their minds, they’d be crazed about it. I saw her twice and I saw her do the same thing. Saw her go back and forth and it was like a looped, a looped memory. That’s much different.
Nick McGowan (13:04.467)
And then, and I even have chills now thinking about it because that was one section of the 10,000 square foot building and the other side of the building, I couldn’t ever even walk down there unless I had another adult with me. at that point I was in my 30s. But there was something deep and dark that owned that piece of the land, of the space that can affect you in so many different ways.
I had one night in that building where I literally was tormented all night long, couldn’t sleep at all. But I know I did some of that to myself by some of the things that I watched and some of the things that I entertained and then calling the fucking thing out, which is not ever really a good thing to do. But I got upset. I walked downstairs, me and my big ass britches and was like, listen, you motherfucker. And it was like.
Deborah LeBlanc (13:50.828)
No.
Deborah LeBlanc (13:55.17)
Yeah.
You
Nick McGowan (13:58.203)
without actually audibly hearing it, I pretty much felt that, no, you’re gonna listen to me. And that was a real moment, but that is a deep, dark entity that then needs to be handled and dealt with. We ultimately ended up bringing different people in to be able to handle and deal with it. And I think it pushed it back a little bit, but I don’t know, we no longer have the building and I’m literally 2000 miles away from where that place is.
Deborah LeBlanc (14:03.507)
Mmm.
Deborah LeBlanc (14:14.892)
Yes.
Nick McGowan (14:27.495)
but there’s a difference between a looped memory and the actual entity. But like you’re saying, we get to decide on how we react to those things. I appreciate that you’re like, I don’t wanna go down that path, but let’s explore that path a little bit for the people that maybe aren’t in the same kind of mindset of what this is or open to these things as much, but can understand that there is something that can attack us.
or attached to us even. And then how do we actually work that along within the standard way of living, of just managing our mindset, trying to be disciplined through life and finding our own path that’s based on our energetics. If there’s something else that’s like tugging at us, because I think there’s a piece of, we need to do our own internal work for our subconscious. But if there’s also an energetic storm that is attacking at us, how can people see that?
Deborah LeBlanc (15:25.792)
They’ll know it in their gut. You’ll know it in your gut that it’s something beyond yourself. Just like you knew when you walked through that building, it was tangible. It was that real. It wasn’t something that had to present itself, you know, with a big red face and horns and, you know, spiked teeth, but it was just as real for you.
Nick McGowan (15:39.293)
So, yeah. Yeah.
Nick McGowan (15:49.341)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (15:53.843)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (15:54.218)
And so I think they have to use their gut instinct to know something is off here and then contact somebody that has, they may need to just go through a cleansing. It may be where they’re working, where they’re living.
It could be, for example, somebody that was messing with a Ouija board just for fun. And you don’t know what spirit you’re actually calling in, if any, you know, but you really don’t know. Calling somebody in for them to get cleansed, know, just them to go through a cleansing, not an exorcism, but a cleansing and to release that spirit back.
to where it belongs, trapped in that board or wherever the heck it came from. But I think the most important part is acknowledging the fact that this is something different. This isn’t my mindset. This is something different. I can feel it taste it. You don’t have to see the red horns. You just feel it in your gut. It’s like you were saying, you’re thinking about it and it brought goosebumps to you.
Nick McGowan (17:00.861)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (17:08.152)
That’s how somebody knows this is something very different. Call for help. You know, it’s not like you can go to the, it’s not even the phone book anymore, but if you Google psychic, you know, or medium, you’re just sure to come up with 10,000 of them. Now the legitimate ones are different, but, you know, I have been, I have been called to cleanse quite a few houses and,
and places and sometimes it’s other people that’s playing on you, playing on your imagination, playing on your recording of whatever is going through your mind. I’m going to give you an example. I got a call from this mother asking me to come on Christmas Eve and cleanse their house.
because a daughter who was nine years old was saying that she kept seeing a man in her room who told her she was going to die Christmas day and he was going to be the one to kill her. so the mother, mean, anytime it’s involved, that children are involved, I’m usually there. Whether I sense it to be legit or just this woman overreacting.
I need to see the child because I mean, this child’s freaking out. So myself and one of the other team members went over there and I saw right away what was happening. The father was so caught up in telling his neighbors that he had a ghost in his house that his eyes would actually light up. He was so excited to show us what, like he’d say this chair moved.
from this point to this point. And I said, did you physically see the chair move? Well, yeah, yeah. And his eyes never could meet mine. So, you know, I’ve just said, well, that’s one tick against you. And so he said, and then we hear this big racket like pots slamming all over the place at night. Somebody’s in the kitchen cooking. And I said, really?
Deborah LeBlanc (19:34.582)
And asked the wife, said, did you hear the same sound? She said, I didn’t hear a thing. And the husband just looked at her like, come on, man, you can’t just kind of give me some backup here. So all the while he’s telling me this, I see the daughter’s right there and her eyes are this big, you know? And I know what’s happening is that the father caught wind of something, some odd
something that because I’d sense nothing in the house, nothing.
Deborah LeBlanc (20:12.404)
She was picking up the father’s energy, that nervous energy, was projecting that to her. That’s what was projecting itself. So what I did to cleanse the house, I didn’t do crap, okay? I took the child and took some sage and took the little girl by the hand and had her hold the sage stick.
Nick McGowan (20:23.997)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (20:40.504)
while it was smoking and I’d tell her what to say. And we’d go from room to room and especially around her bed where she said she saw the man. We’d have her walk around the bed and all through the house. It was a trailer, a mobile home, so it was really small. And walked all the way through the house with her with a sage shaker. said, when we met back in the living room, I said, how do you feel now? She said, like he’s gone.
I said, really? I said, well, you did all the work. You did all the work. So I tamp out the sage stick and I told the mother, said, would you please give me a call tomorrow Christmas day and let me know how she spent the night. I told the little girl how strong she was and really reiterated that. I said, no matter what you hear,
or see, you just remember how strong you were tonight and that you told that whoever it was to go away and because you told him that and you said it in the name of Jesus, he can’t come back no matter what anybody says. I kind of gave her that little oomph because I knew the father wasn’t finished yet. There were neighbors gathering in the yard because we had showed up. So he was waiting for confirmation, you know.
Nick McGowan (21:59.069)
Hmm.
Nick McGowan (22:03.539)
It’s a spectacle.
Deborah LeBlanc (22:06.572)
that yes, your house is way haunted and they’re going to put a sign at the road and charge 10 bucks. I don’t know what they plan on doing. But the mother did call me and said that was the first time the daughter had slept peacefully through the night. Christmas Day had been beautiful. She called me that Christmas evening and just thanked me. You know, and I said, really, there really is no thanks needed.
You need to kind of keep your husband in check. said he, you know, because he’s affecting your daughter. And she goes, I kind of suspected that was the case. I said they were you were spot on.
Nick McGowan (22:47.495)
Yeah. So many layers to all of it, you know, and it’s like, it’s so easy to look at the skin of things and the surface of it just say, well, yeah, you’re feeling this thing. The energetic piece to it is so important because there are, there are times that we can affect people. I think for the most part, a lot of people will think about the positive version of that. Like somebody walks into a room and they’re
Deborah LeBlanc (22:51.052)
Yeah, yeah.
Nick McGowan (23:10.885)
and extrovert and have all this energy and they’re so excited and therefore everybody else in the room just feels excited or they’re thankful that person’s there or maybe they’re even triggered and they’re like, well screw that person because I have insecurities slightly different but you can still feel that palpable energy. If somebody believes something so much, that energy can be given off that energy can be shared, especially when it comes to a child, that child is actually open to being able to experience and feel those things. They’re also super susceptible.
to be able to be influenced by that. And what an interesting piece of like, how do you extract from all of that? How do you work within that? And I want us take a little bit of a step back. You talked about being able to feel those things. The mom had even said, I kind of suspected that was a bit of the case. I wonder how often that actually happens where people suspect it, but they don’t do anything with it because you can make up whatever excuses you can.
Deborah LeBlanc (23:43.01)
Right.
Deborah LeBlanc (23:59.032)
You
Nick McGowan (24:08.125)
confirm it to something else or maybe this person’s right. I can appreciate when somebody is at least open, you know, instead of like, nope, that’s not the case because science says or my faith says or whatever. But there are also deeper pieces to it that it’s not just an energetics thing. But there can be an energetics thing from something else. So I wonder how often those things happen where a lot of things are kind of made up because they’re real to that person like that, that father.
Deborah LeBlanc (24:36.344)
Mm-hmm.
Nick McGowan (24:37.893)
one of those things to be real for reasons that aren’t clear to us at the moment. They could probably not be clear to us for years of therapy with that person or processing with that person. Depends on that thing. There might also be something in certain cases that are actually affecting people. You pointed out that it’s up to us to be able to handle how we react to those things. I think we also get to see like, how would we react to those things? You mentioned about the horns and all big and red.
full transparency, if I actually saw that, there would be shit in my pants, straight up. And I would be running with that to get out of there. But then again, there have also been things that I’ve seen that I have not felt a piece outside of that, like I had felt in that moment. I saw some little kids at one point when I was younger playing like a merry-go-round sort of thing.
Deborah LeBlanc (25:16.205)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (25:36.295)
just like moving around with each other. And I remember being at such a peace with that. And the kid that I was with was scared shitless and he ran. But I remember just being like, huh, well, that’s wonder what context was, you know, like, how did they get there? What’s their deal, but feeling at peace with it, which is vastly different than that feeling that I had in that basement, which is like this thing could rip us all apart and implode the entire house. You talked about the land though.
Land is an important part to that. I often wonder about the systems of that stuff. Let’s think about where we live in this country. This wasn’t our land. Really none of ours except for the indigenous people whose land it was. And other people got here and they’re like, look at this beautiful land. Who the fuck are you? Well, this is our land. No, it’s not. It’s our land. And they decimated those people. So I kind of understand that there’s a deeper energy to that.
Deborah LeBlanc (26:13.517)
Right?
Deborah LeBlanc (26:22.474)
Right. Yeah.
Nick McGowan (26:33.831)
part of me also wonders like, should we just allow that? I mean, think about land back, like you should give the fucking land back your house shouldn’t be on their, their land, specifically with those things. But I think I’m getting a little off topic here, because there’s a lot to it. But if we tie this back into how we as people can extract the energies that are within us, the traumas and the things that have shaped us to who we are, but also understand that there are also external energies.
And to bring it away from the paranormal and into the, I say normal, there are also energies of other people. That kid and her dad, her dad was affecting her. There are partnerships and relationships and friendships where people can be affected by somebody. They can either be susceptible to just saying, well, I trust this person. I trust what they’re saying is not least remotely true. There are other times where you can just get really inundated.
Deborah LeBlanc (27:12.002)
Yes.
Nick McGowan (27:30.961)
And I see that happening within people just throughout the country. Hell, even with politics right now, there are people that are on the right or they’re on the left or some think they’re right in the middle, but you’re picking a side because of an energy that you’re feeling from something. So in the work that you do with people, how does this all relate to what you do and how you help them through that?
Deborah LeBlanc (27:52.824)
It affects them significantly. For example, if they came from a traumatic childhood, that’s one energy I’m having to deal with. Past energy that they’re still holding on to. If they’re married to a narcissist, that’s present energy that they’re holding on to. If their boss is a real asshole, that’s something that they’re…
you know, they’re having to deal with. And they wonder why they have stress or why they have emphysema and have never smoked before or, you know, a lot of physical ailments have to do with our mental processing of some issues. So it has quite a bit to do with past, present,
And for all intents and purposes, the future of where their mindset is, who is affecting their mind, who is affecting their way of life and dealing with that. For them to feel the strength in themselves to stand up and say, I’m my own person. I don’t have to follow what you think, believe, know, whatever it may be. I have a right to my own way of thinking.
That is one of the most difficult things to teach people.
Nick McGowan (29:19.731)
You’re breaking a lot of things apart at that point. Again, with the systems of it, there’s a lot of systems at play of education, family, how we believe we should be, and then breaking apart from that to actually be able to look at the raw components and go, well, how do we put these components together? Fuck, what are some of the components I don’t want anymore? How do we get rid of these things and what do I do? So how does hypnotherapy tie into that?
Deborah LeBlanc (29:22.646)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (29:45.846)
Hypnotherapy can go into…
We do do age regression though I don’t like to do it. Age regression and past life regression. One, because you don’t know if that person is actually sensing that. Let me clarify that. Somebody will come to me and say, I think I was sexually abused as a child, but I don’t know for sure. Can you do age regression?
so I can find out for sure. And the first question I’ll ask is, what makes you think you were? Well, I have issues around sex.
Okay, well, that could, those issues could be around some major issues. Maybe their spouse is a lousy lover or, you know, maybe they have a physical issue and, you know, that’s involved. But if the father, if they think they want to pin it on the father or an uncle or cousins, and those people are still alive, I do not do age regression.
Because you don’t know if what they’re picking up is some movie they saw, a book they read, or a story someone told them. They can’t differentiate the truth in their subconscious. What was read, heard, or seen on television is as true to them as though it had actually happened. So I don’t do age regression very often, unless…
Deborah LeBlanc (31:31.48)
unless the father is, they suspect the father, they have confirmation from siblings that they had been abused by the father and the father’s passed away. And then I’ll always ask them, what end will this bring to you? Well, they say closure. I said, to what? Suppose it never happened.
And suppose it did. How does that affect you today? Well, I can get healed from it. I said, but what about if it never happened? Then what are you going to blame it? What needs to be healed then? You see, I try to get them to logically peel that onion down themselves before we get into the crux of things.
Nick McGowan (32:23.365)
Makes sense. mean, even with the paranormal side of it, I think I’ve seen different, again, shows where those are shows. Those are syndicated. There are things to it. Some of it’s kind of almost funny. Like there’s a one show that comes to mind where they always, I forget what the name of it is, but the guy’s name is Zach. He’s the main guy. Then he has one of his other dudes. He always throws them to the wolves. He’s like, do you got to go do this? And he’s like, why is it always me?
Deborah LeBlanc (32:49.964)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (32:52.467)
Like, well, part of that is because we enjoy seeing the doof like get tossed in the mix. But I’ve also seen different things, YouTube wise or some deeper researching of things, home movies of things where you can tell that there’s something, but there’s also potential for exaggeration. There’s like you were talking about, and I think that’s really important to be able to call out that the subconscious does not care what’s
quote unquote real or not because it’s all real. It’s how we relate to it and what we do with it. How we can also then be able to do something with that and being able to be logical about it. At least let’s be scientific about it. How could this actually be the case? It’s interesting that we’re having this conversation now because for some reason, I don’t really know why, but about a week ago, I started to rewatch the X files.
Deborah LeBlanc (33:49.922)
yeah.
Nick McGowan (33:50.117)
just at the end of the night and all watch an episode or two. And I love the X Files as a kid. But I didn’t fully understand it. Because honestly, I was born in 84. And I mean, the X Files were their early 90s. So like, I didn’t fully grasp. But being able to go back and see how some of that is and even the difference between Mulder and Scully where Scully is like, scientifically, this is what it is. Mulder is like, I want to believe in all of that. And I think there’s a mixture of both of those people.
in most people that can feel and see these things. It’s really important, I think, as a takeaway for us all to be able to look at and say, all right, if I step outside of this, paranormal, normal, quasi normal, abnormal, all the types, to be able to say, well, logically and scientifically, how could this be the case? Is it an abnormal or paranormal thing? Or do I just want it to be because I’m bored?
or I want a little bit of spice in my life, or is it literally just a scientific thing that’s happening right now? Like I’ve enjoyed, and again, this is just funny that this is the time of life that I have right now. Watching some of these episodes where some of these things are just strictly scientific in that moment, like even stuff with the Bermuda Triangle. So many people talk about all these paranormal things and all that stuff that’s happening. I have a feeling that a lot of it’s actually electromagnetic and where it’s at within the globe.
Deborah LeBlanc (35:06.082)
Right.
Nick McGowan (35:14.801)
and also the things that are under the water that are pulling on those things. And it’s not just like there’s some sea monster under there that just swallowing people up. But then again, we also like the fantastic, the things that are abnormal. Look at the TV shows, look at the movies, look at all this stuff that’s out there. It can influence us in those sort of ways. But I think from a basic human level, we want to believe that there are things that are outside of us.
Deborah LeBlanc (35:19.564)
I agree.
Deborah LeBlanc (35:25.708)
Right.
Nick McGowan (35:43.101)
but we also want to be comfortable and we want to understand that we can control these things, which we really actually can’t except for our actions and the ways that we go about things. So when you go through with your clients with hypnotherapy, what sort of stuff do you give them to work on after the fact so that they can continue to do the work and actually integrate with it?
Deborah LeBlanc (36:07.096)
Well, typically I’ll send them an MP3 of the session, the hypnotherapy session that we’ve just done. So I’ll have them listen to it at least two or three times before we meet again so that it just reiterates what we worked on and helps to strengthen that in the subconscious mind. I do a lot of Ericksonian hypnotherapy and
So it reinforces hearing it over and over again. It’s just like me telling you a story. If I told it to you three times in a week, you’d remember that story by the end of the week. So that’s one of the things that I do. Anything other than that, then I’m usually getting into CBT or DBT treatments, know, with it, depending on their situation.
Nick McGowan (37:05.905)
Yeah, no, I think that’s awesome how we can tie and kind of have a modality stack almost. Like even as you’re talking about it, there’s also acupressure, where being able to state these things over and over and how you feel how it feels in you reshaping that story and then stating it again and having a different feeling with it and being able to then expand upon that either from hypnotherapy or whatever the modality is, and then stacking things upon it. Something that I noticed different people say at times, they’re like, well, I’ve done therapy.
Deborah LeBlanc (37:12.93)
Sure.
Nick McGowan (37:36.915)
like that’s the end of it. I’ve talked to people before and it’s like great. We’ve all been talking since we were kids and learned how to actually speak. But that’s different than processing through it. And that’s different than finding out how do you actually work with that. One of the big reasons why I wanted to bring you on was not only for hypnotherapy, but being able to expand upon that modality as an option for people. Some people have a thing with hip hypnotherapists.
Deborah LeBlanc (37:39.085)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (38:03.089)
some people think I can’t ever be hypnotized. I’ve seen some people I went to some seminar and like, I don’t know mid 2000s with a hypnotherapist and this one dude was like, I could never be hypnotized. 10 minutes later, he was up on stage barking like dog. And I remember busting up laughing and being like you were the dude who basically called yourself out in a room full of 400 people to then be up there. And he didn’t have any recollection of it because he was hypnotized, but he didn’t believe he could be that goes back to our
our belief in what we think we can do and how we can go about it. So in that sort of sense, with somebody who’s on their path towards self mastery, what sort of advice would you give them?
Deborah LeBlanc (38:43.628)
Well, where hypnotherapy is concerned, I’ve never yet in all my years of training have made anybody bark like a dog or cluck like a chicken. don’t stage hypnotists give hypnotherapy sometimes a rotten name, you know? And when Hollywood gets involved, it gets worse, you know, because people think it’s mind control. And it’s not. It’s not. It’s…
bringing you to a point of relaxation where you can actually hone in on what your real issue is and work through that particular issue. Sometimes we get so busy with life and the noise that life brings that we keep that distraction or what problem we have on a shelf and it comes back to bite us in the butt all the time.
This is where we keep it. We always jack the radio up, you know, whether we’re in the house, it’s a television on, it’s a radio on, it’s, we have to have noise, noise, noise, noise. We can’t deal with the silence. And the silence is where we need to find, is where you find your inner self, where you find the answers to a lot of the problems that they’re going to other therapists to find. That’s, you’ve got the answers within yourself.
And as a hypnotherapist, all my job is to help you listen.
Nick McGowan (40:18.767)
You’re right. I mean, there’s a lot of noise that’s out there. And we do like the noise. And noise isn’t always just actual noise. It can be a distraction of social media can be a distraction of a thing that we call to be a hobby. That is a, it’s a thing for I think, a lot of people that probably don’t really want to talk about it as much where what do they do when they’re just really silent? How do they actually break through?
the barrier of the monkey brain that just throwing random fucking noises and thoughts at you and actually get deeper than that. And I appreciate that hypnotherapy can help with that sort of stuff. This has been an interesting conversation, because it’s not just about hypnotherapy. There’s paranormal to it. There’s a lot of different pieces to it. But it is also really related back to our overall mindset, the stories that we tell ourselves and our subconscious.
Deborah LeBlanc (40:59.17)
Yeah, it does.
Nick McGowan (41:15.099)
So I appreciate you being on today. Before I let you go though, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?
Deborah LeBlanc (41:21.666)
They can go to mindpaththerapies.com and click or Deborah at mindpaththerapies.com and contact me that way. Or they can reach contact at five star leadership.co.
Nick McGowan (41:41.427)
Okay, perfect. And we’ll have that stuff in the show notes. Again, Deborah, it’s been great to have you on. I appreciate your time today.
Deborah LeBlanc (41:48.236)
Thanks a lot, Nick.
https://youtu.be/WC8wlUm_NFc
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By Nick McGowan“You have a choice on how you react to what you think is affecting you.”
In this episode, Nick speaks with Deborah LeBlanc, a certified clinical hypnotherapist and paranormal investigator. They explore the intersection of hypnotherapy, personal growth, and the paranormal, discussing how external energies and generational trauma can affect mental health. Deborah shares her journey into ghost hunting, the importance of recognizing and addressing external influences, and the power of hypnotherapy in healing.
What to listen for:
“I have a very strong faith. I think you have to have faith in order to be a paranormal investigator.”
“I have a right to my own way of thinking. That is one of the most difficult things to teach people.”
“To what end will this bring to you? Suppose it never happened… Then what are you gonna blame? What needs to be healed then?”
About Deborah LeBlanc
Deborah is a certified life and business coach as well as a clinical hypnotherapist. She is the owner of Mind Path Therapies LLC and Five Star Leadership LLC. Deborah lives in the heart of Cajun country with her husband and four dogs.
Resources:
Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!
Thank you for listening!
Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089
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Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]
Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”
Click To View The Episode Transcript
Nick McGowan (00:04.819)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan and today on the show we have Deborah LeBlanc. Deborah, how you doing today?
Deborah LeBlanc (00:16.418)
Doing great, Nick.
Nick McGowan (00:18.851)
I’m excited for us to get into the conversation that we’re going to talk about. There’s a lot that we can get into. So without me just blabbing a little bit, let’s why don’t you get us started? Tell us what you do for a living. And what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.
Deborah LeBlanc (00:34.744)
Let’s see, what I do for a living is I am a clinical, a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I’m also a business and life coach, certified business and life coach. What most people don’t know about me, unless they really know me, is that I do paranormal investigations. So I ghost hunt, just like what you see on television.
Nick McGowan (00:59.143)
Well.
Deborah LeBlanc (01:02.25)
things, you know, what you see is what I do.
Nick McGowan (01:06.749)
Well, I think that will mostly be this podcast episode then. I think that’s one thing that some people, different people live in different camps with that sort of stuff, where they’re like, I don’t believe in it. Other people have seen and felt things and they’re like, how in the fuck can’t you believe in it? Some people are really not receptive to it. They just don’t, they’re not open enough to be able to see or understand those things. And that’s not the throw shade at anybody. But I think there are also some people that are closer to the void that
Deborah LeBlanc (01:10.775)
Ha
Deborah LeBlanc (01:17.272)
Sure.
Nick McGowan (01:35.783)
can experience those things a lot easier. So let’s get into that a little bit because I also really, really enjoy that sort of stuff. What led you to that? Like what happened to open your eyes?
Deborah LeBlanc (01:48.46)
Actually, my middle daughter, who’s since passed away, my middle daughter contacted me one night and she knew of a guy who was a producer of the Fear program that MTV was doing at the time. yeah, she says, she says, hey mom, we’re going to…
Nick McGowan (02:06.941)
Yeah, Rogan. What was that fear factor? Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (02:17.578)
It was Fort Gaines. And she said, we’re going to ghost hunt. said, would you like to come? And I’m always up for an adventure. So I said, sure, ghost hunting, that’s cool. Let’s go. So we got out there and I got hooked from then on. I mean, I started ghost hunting with a disposable camera, a compass, and a set of brass balls. That’s all you needed really to get started.
But ever since that particular night, I’ve been hooked since then. I’ve hunted with groups all over the US, but I’m tied with one group here in Louisiana, and we go to different locations where people contact us and say, I’ve got spirits in my house, I have this demon in my house, can you come and help?
we normally do, especially if children are involved. But you can normally tell by the person that’s sending you the email whether you’re dealing with something that’s viable or something that really needs medical attention.
Nick McGowan (03:18.163)
Hmm.
Nick McGowan (03:30.81)
Yeah.
That’s an interesting thing to think about with the psychology of it, the medical or the mental attention, or the actual, there’s something that’s outside of this realm that is part of this realm at this moment that is affecting. And I think there’s a lot of layers to it. I often think about when I watch different things, some of the stuff we see on TV has to be BS.
There are some things that are actually real and there are certain pieces of it. Like I like to go deeper and find out like I like when people go into different places that have had like mental institutions from the 1920s or 30s that have been shut down for 60, 70 years. You can’t tell me that there’s not energy there. You just can’t. But how does that then affect somebody and how does that tie into how the person works and moves through things?
Deborah LeBlanc (04:02.188)
It is.
Deborah LeBlanc (04:22.219)
you’re right.
Nick McGowan (04:30.387)
And at what point is there a psychological difference? And then there’s a psychic difference. And then there’s an actual entity or some sort of energy that is affecting you. think in a, an easy way to think about it, we’ve all been in a place, probably everybody, I don’t want to make an assumption for every single human, but we’ve probably all been in a place where you just feel a little off. Your intuition is telling you this is a little off. That may be a thing of like this person you’re with is.
not the best or there might be something you can’t see. I’ve been in different spots where I’ve felt things and then I’ve seen things and they tie together. It’s like two and two literally equaled four in that moment. And then there are other times where I’ve noticed that things have happened that I’ve asked, was I a part of that? Was my energy was my trauma was my whatever a part of this and how it all mixed together. Then wondering how people are affected by that. I’ve seen different things where people
go into situation like you’re saying with kids, or kids are widely susceptible to being open to these things, especially in their formative years, between four and eight. But then when they start to get a little older, and like the tween years, I experienced things in my tween years that were really unexplainable. But then how does that affect that person? And how does it tie into our mental health and our healing, which is a thing that honestly, we haven’t actually talked about on this show in close to 150 episodes.
We talk often about trauma. We talk about how people go through things and then how they effectively work through it. But what about the unknown things? Yes, trauma is an unseen thing. You can’t see it, especially generational trauma. You can’t be like, well, my grandpappy from 1842 had this problem and now here it is. But then how do you tie in if there’s an actual entity or a spirit or some sort of energy that’s also infecting you? I guess with that, go.
Deborah LeBlanc (06:23.992)
Well, you know, there are some people that have to this day and I’ve been I’ve been ghost hunting now for I would say going on 29 years. So I have met a lot of people. I have seen a lot of things that were unusual. I have seen a lot of things that were not that unusual that somebody really was blowing out of proportion.
But I did see some things that.
Deborah LeBlanc (06:59.309)
I can’t say they were generational, but I could tell that the person that was experiencing them was messing with things that they shouldn’t have been messing with, like a Ouija board. I’m absolutely against using Ouija boards. Or they were heavy into tarot cards, and that’s how they lived their life, by the tarot cards, instead of just living life.
I mean, there’s certainly for it to be something that’s generational, then you’re talking about an exorcism of sorts, know, something that breaks the ties of that’s followed from, say, one ancestor was cursed and it’s passed on from generation to generation. For example, and mostly it’s not people, it’s land. There are oftentimes people who live on
Nick McGowan (07:40.019)
Hmm.
Deborah LeBlanc (07:58.648)
old Indian burial sites. Their homes were built there and they didn’t realize it. So the land is cursed, quote unquote cursed, until they bring a shaman in there who does his rite of passage for that couple, that piece of property, or whatever it may be, and to appease the spirits that are there. And then everything goes back to normal. So it’s not…
Nick McGowan (08:01.341)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah LeBlanc (08:26.872)
It’s really hard to say how do you get it to stop if it’s generational. One, you always have a choice. You have a choice on how you react to what you think is affecting you. Let’s say somebody always has bad luck and they go, well, my mother always had bad luck. My grandmother always had bad luck. And I heard she was cursed by some gypsy and that was passed on to every female ever born.
Because they believe that, it typically brings that to pass. I believe whatever we put out there in the universe, our own energy, whatever we believe really strongly, we’re going to get. So they believe it, it happens. And it’s a matter of changing their mindset to you have control over your life. It wasn’t your mother or your grandmother.
Nick McGowan (08:58.707)
It’s true then.
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (09:24.958)
I have yet to come across an authentic case of possession. I’m not going to say that. I used to hunt with Ed and Lorraine Warren. And if there were ever demonic cases on this planet, they were around wherever that couple went. They were into really the hardcore. And I knew then that I limited the
types of investigations that I did, because places or people that are demonically possessed, there’s demonic infestation, that takes a certain jeunesse quoi, know, lack of a better term. It’s not at my cup of tea, all right? I know what mine is. I have a very strong faith. I think you have to have faith in order to be in
paranormal investigator, but not to the point where I’m going to be expelling demons or, you know, calling them to the forefront to say, you know, now that you’re here, go. That’s not me. It’s not me. So I can’t say I’ve never seen it. I have seen some wild stuff where Ed and Lorraine were concerned, like a refrigerator completely disappear before my eyes and wind up in the garage.
Nick McGowan (10:37.874)
Mm-hmm
Deborah LeBlanc (10:55.488)
Yeah, yeah, teleportation was, it was, was crazy. And, but I think our own energy has a big part to play in what we manifest in this lifetime. Our own energy, our own beliefs.
Nick McGowan (11:12.615)
Yeah.
Hmm. Hmm. I feel like we could go on so many, so many paths with this that there are certain people that listen to this, this podcast that’ll write, they’ll be in line with us and others might be like, this is a little too far off the beaten path. I think a lot of this really also ties into how we manage our mindset. Cause it is a story, you know, if somebody says this is what
has happened. This is how it is. This is just what we do. This is how you are, etc. We then believe those stories or subconscious says, well, this is what it is. So this is how we roll. We get to change those, we have to be aware of those things to do that. But there are also rather I should say, and there are also other things that can come into play. I appreciate what you’re saying about the demonic sides of this. That’s different than what can seem like a
a looping memory where somebody had this memory in a spot and you can see where they’re like, there’s this little girl that runs around or what have you. That can be one of those looping memories. I had a situation in a building that my grandparents and my aunt owned that was 110 years old. By the time we sold it a few years ago, it was literally the first.
like a town hall place, it was a school, it was a wedding hall, it was all these things in the town and had so many different stories and energies and situations. And there was a woman in a white dress in the back of the, back of one of the basement portions. People would lose their minds, they’d be crazed about it. I saw her twice and I saw her do the same thing. Saw her go back and forth and it was like a looped, a looped memory. That’s much different.
Nick McGowan (13:04.467)
And then, and I even have chills now thinking about it because that was one section of the 10,000 square foot building and the other side of the building, I couldn’t ever even walk down there unless I had another adult with me. at that point I was in my 30s. But there was something deep and dark that owned that piece of the land, of the space that can affect you in so many different ways.
I had one night in that building where I literally was tormented all night long, couldn’t sleep at all. But I know I did some of that to myself by some of the things that I watched and some of the things that I entertained and then calling the fucking thing out, which is not ever really a good thing to do. But I got upset. I walked downstairs, me and my big ass britches and was like, listen, you motherfucker. And it was like.
Deborah LeBlanc (13:50.828)
No.
Deborah LeBlanc (13:55.17)
Yeah.
You
Nick McGowan (13:58.203)
without actually audibly hearing it, I pretty much felt that, no, you’re gonna listen to me. And that was a real moment, but that is a deep, dark entity that then needs to be handled and dealt with. We ultimately ended up bringing different people in to be able to handle and deal with it. And I think it pushed it back a little bit, but I don’t know, we no longer have the building and I’m literally 2000 miles away from where that place is.
Deborah LeBlanc (14:03.507)
Mmm.
Deborah LeBlanc (14:14.892)
Yes.
Nick McGowan (14:27.495)
but there’s a difference between a looped memory and the actual entity. But like you’re saying, we get to decide on how we react to those things. I appreciate that you’re like, I don’t wanna go down that path, but let’s explore that path a little bit for the people that maybe aren’t in the same kind of mindset of what this is or open to these things as much, but can understand that there is something that can attack us.
or attached to us even. And then how do we actually work that along within the standard way of living, of just managing our mindset, trying to be disciplined through life and finding our own path that’s based on our energetics. If there’s something else that’s like tugging at us, because I think there’s a piece of, we need to do our own internal work for our subconscious. But if there’s also an energetic storm that is attacking at us, how can people see that?
Deborah LeBlanc (15:25.792)
They’ll know it in their gut. You’ll know it in your gut that it’s something beyond yourself. Just like you knew when you walked through that building, it was tangible. It was that real. It wasn’t something that had to present itself, you know, with a big red face and horns and, you know, spiked teeth, but it was just as real for you.
Nick McGowan (15:39.293)
So, yeah. Yeah.
Nick McGowan (15:49.341)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (15:53.843)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (15:54.218)
And so I think they have to use their gut instinct to know something is off here and then contact somebody that has, they may need to just go through a cleansing. It may be where they’re working, where they’re living.
It could be, for example, somebody that was messing with a Ouija board just for fun. And you don’t know what spirit you’re actually calling in, if any, you know, but you really don’t know. Calling somebody in for them to get cleansed, know, just them to go through a cleansing, not an exorcism, but a cleansing and to release that spirit back.
to where it belongs, trapped in that board or wherever the heck it came from. But I think the most important part is acknowledging the fact that this is something different. This isn’t my mindset. This is something different. I can feel it taste it. You don’t have to see the red horns. You just feel it in your gut. It’s like you were saying, you’re thinking about it and it brought goosebumps to you.
Nick McGowan (17:00.861)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (17:08.152)
That’s how somebody knows this is something very different. Call for help. You know, it’s not like you can go to the, it’s not even the phone book anymore, but if you Google psychic, you know, or medium, you’re just sure to come up with 10,000 of them. Now the legitimate ones are different, but, you know, I have been, I have been called to cleanse quite a few houses and,
and places and sometimes it’s other people that’s playing on you, playing on your imagination, playing on your recording of whatever is going through your mind. I’m going to give you an example. I got a call from this mother asking me to come on Christmas Eve and cleanse their house.
because a daughter who was nine years old was saying that she kept seeing a man in her room who told her she was going to die Christmas day and he was going to be the one to kill her. so the mother, mean, anytime it’s involved, that children are involved, I’m usually there. Whether I sense it to be legit or just this woman overreacting.
I need to see the child because I mean, this child’s freaking out. So myself and one of the other team members went over there and I saw right away what was happening. The father was so caught up in telling his neighbors that he had a ghost in his house that his eyes would actually light up. He was so excited to show us what, like he’d say this chair moved.
from this point to this point. And I said, did you physically see the chair move? Well, yeah, yeah. And his eyes never could meet mine. So, you know, I’ve just said, well, that’s one tick against you. And so he said, and then we hear this big racket like pots slamming all over the place at night. Somebody’s in the kitchen cooking. And I said, really?
Deborah LeBlanc (19:34.582)
And asked the wife, said, did you hear the same sound? She said, I didn’t hear a thing. And the husband just looked at her like, come on, man, you can’t just kind of give me some backup here. So all the while he’s telling me this, I see the daughter’s right there and her eyes are this big, you know? And I know what’s happening is that the father caught wind of something, some odd
something that because I’d sense nothing in the house, nothing.
Deborah LeBlanc (20:12.404)
She was picking up the father’s energy, that nervous energy, was projecting that to her. That’s what was projecting itself. So what I did to cleanse the house, I didn’t do crap, okay? I took the child and took some sage and took the little girl by the hand and had her hold the sage stick.
Nick McGowan (20:23.997)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (20:40.504)
while it was smoking and I’d tell her what to say. And we’d go from room to room and especially around her bed where she said she saw the man. We’d have her walk around the bed and all through the house. It was a trailer, a mobile home, so it was really small. And walked all the way through the house with her with a sage shaker. said, when we met back in the living room, I said, how do you feel now? She said, like he’s gone.
I said, really? I said, well, you did all the work. You did all the work. So I tamp out the sage stick and I told the mother, said, would you please give me a call tomorrow Christmas day and let me know how she spent the night. I told the little girl how strong she was and really reiterated that. I said, no matter what you hear,
or see, you just remember how strong you were tonight and that you told that whoever it was to go away and because you told him that and you said it in the name of Jesus, he can’t come back no matter what anybody says. I kind of gave her that little oomph because I knew the father wasn’t finished yet. There were neighbors gathering in the yard because we had showed up. So he was waiting for confirmation, you know.
Nick McGowan (21:59.069)
Hmm.
Nick McGowan (22:03.539)
It’s a spectacle.
Deborah LeBlanc (22:06.572)
that yes, your house is way haunted and they’re going to put a sign at the road and charge 10 bucks. I don’t know what they plan on doing. But the mother did call me and said that was the first time the daughter had slept peacefully through the night. Christmas Day had been beautiful. She called me that Christmas evening and just thanked me. You know, and I said, really, there really is no thanks needed.
You need to kind of keep your husband in check. said he, you know, because he’s affecting your daughter. And she goes, I kind of suspected that was the case. I said they were you were spot on.
Nick McGowan (22:47.495)
Yeah. So many layers to all of it, you know, and it’s like, it’s so easy to look at the skin of things and the surface of it just say, well, yeah, you’re feeling this thing. The energetic piece to it is so important because there are, there are times that we can affect people. I think for the most part, a lot of people will think about the positive version of that. Like somebody walks into a room and they’re
Deborah LeBlanc (22:51.052)
Yeah, yeah.
Nick McGowan (23:10.885)
and extrovert and have all this energy and they’re so excited and therefore everybody else in the room just feels excited or they’re thankful that person’s there or maybe they’re even triggered and they’re like, well screw that person because I have insecurities slightly different but you can still feel that palpable energy. If somebody believes something so much, that energy can be given off that energy can be shared, especially when it comes to a child, that child is actually open to being able to experience and feel those things. They’re also super susceptible.
to be able to be influenced by that. And what an interesting piece of like, how do you extract from all of that? How do you work within that? And I want us take a little bit of a step back. You talked about being able to feel those things. The mom had even said, I kind of suspected that was a bit of the case. I wonder how often that actually happens where people suspect it, but they don’t do anything with it because you can make up whatever excuses you can.
Deborah LeBlanc (23:43.01)
Right.
Deborah LeBlanc (23:59.032)
You
Nick McGowan (24:08.125)
confirm it to something else or maybe this person’s right. I can appreciate when somebody is at least open, you know, instead of like, nope, that’s not the case because science says or my faith says or whatever. But there are also deeper pieces to it that it’s not just an energetics thing. But there can be an energetics thing from something else. So I wonder how often those things happen where a lot of things are kind of made up because they’re real to that person like that, that father.
Deborah LeBlanc (24:36.344)
Mm-hmm.
Nick McGowan (24:37.893)
one of those things to be real for reasons that aren’t clear to us at the moment. They could probably not be clear to us for years of therapy with that person or processing with that person. Depends on that thing. There might also be something in certain cases that are actually affecting people. You pointed out that it’s up to us to be able to handle how we react to those things. I think we also get to see like, how would we react to those things? You mentioned about the horns and all big and red.
full transparency, if I actually saw that, there would be shit in my pants, straight up. And I would be running with that to get out of there. But then again, there have also been things that I’ve seen that I have not felt a piece outside of that, like I had felt in that moment. I saw some little kids at one point when I was younger playing like a merry-go-round sort of thing.
Deborah LeBlanc (25:16.205)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (25:36.295)
just like moving around with each other. And I remember being at such a peace with that. And the kid that I was with was scared shitless and he ran. But I remember just being like, huh, well, that’s wonder what context was, you know, like, how did they get there? What’s their deal, but feeling at peace with it, which is vastly different than that feeling that I had in that basement, which is like this thing could rip us all apart and implode the entire house. You talked about the land though.
Land is an important part to that. I often wonder about the systems of that stuff. Let’s think about where we live in this country. This wasn’t our land. Really none of ours except for the indigenous people whose land it was. And other people got here and they’re like, look at this beautiful land. Who the fuck are you? Well, this is our land. No, it’s not. It’s our land. And they decimated those people. So I kind of understand that there’s a deeper energy to that.
Deborah LeBlanc (26:13.517)
Right?
Deborah LeBlanc (26:22.474)
Right. Yeah.
Nick McGowan (26:33.831)
part of me also wonders like, should we just allow that? I mean, think about land back, like you should give the fucking land back your house shouldn’t be on their, their land, specifically with those things. But I think I’m getting a little off topic here, because there’s a lot to it. But if we tie this back into how we as people can extract the energies that are within us, the traumas and the things that have shaped us to who we are, but also understand that there are also external energies.
And to bring it away from the paranormal and into the, I say normal, there are also energies of other people. That kid and her dad, her dad was affecting her. There are partnerships and relationships and friendships where people can be affected by somebody. They can either be susceptible to just saying, well, I trust this person. I trust what they’re saying is not least remotely true. There are other times where you can just get really inundated.
Deborah LeBlanc (27:12.002)
Yes.
Nick McGowan (27:30.961)
And I see that happening within people just throughout the country. Hell, even with politics right now, there are people that are on the right or they’re on the left or some think they’re right in the middle, but you’re picking a side because of an energy that you’re feeling from something. So in the work that you do with people, how does this all relate to what you do and how you help them through that?
Deborah LeBlanc (27:52.824)
It affects them significantly. For example, if they came from a traumatic childhood, that’s one energy I’m having to deal with. Past energy that they’re still holding on to. If they’re married to a narcissist, that’s present energy that they’re holding on to. If their boss is a real asshole, that’s something that they’re…
you know, they’re having to deal with. And they wonder why they have stress or why they have emphysema and have never smoked before or, you know, a lot of physical ailments have to do with our mental processing of some issues. So it has quite a bit to do with past, present,
And for all intents and purposes, the future of where their mindset is, who is affecting their mind, who is affecting their way of life and dealing with that. For them to feel the strength in themselves to stand up and say, I’m my own person. I don’t have to follow what you think, believe, know, whatever it may be. I have a right to my own way of thinking.
That is one of the most difficult things to teach people.
Nick McGowan (29:19.731)
You’re breaking a lot of things apart at that point. Again, with the systems of it, there’s a lot of systems at play of education, family, how we believe we should be, and then breaking apart from that to actually be able to look at the raw components and go, well, how do we put these components together? Fuck, what are some of the components I don’t want anymore? How do we get rid of these things and what do I do? So how does hypnotherapy tie into that?
Deborah LeBlanc (29:22.646)
Yeah.
Deborah LeBlanc (29:45.846)
Hypnotherapy can go into…
We do do age regression though I don’t like to do it. Age regression and past life regression. One, because you don’t know if that person is actually sensing that. Let me clarify that. Somebody will come to me and say, I think I was sexually abused as a child, but I don’t know for sure. Can you do age regression?
so I can find out for sure. And the first question I’ll ask is, what makes you think you were? Well, I have issues around sex.
Okay, well, that could, those issues could be around some major issues. Maybe their spouse is a lousy lover or, you know, maybe they have a physical issue and, you know, that’s involved. But if the father, if they think they want to pin it on the father or an uncle or cousins, and those people are still alive, I do not do age regression.
Because you don’t know if what they’re picking up is some movie they saw, a book they read, or a story someone told them. They can’t differentiate the truth in their subconscious. What was read, heard, or seen on television is as true to them as though it had actually happened. So I don’t do age regression very often, unless…
Deborah LeBlanc (31:31.48)
unless the father is, they suspect the father, they have confirmation from siblings that they had been abused by the father and the father’s passed away. And then I’ll always ask them, what end will this bring to you? Well, they say closure. I said, to what? Suppose it never happened.
And suppose it did. How does that affect you today? Well, I can get healed from it. I said, but what about if it never happened? Then what are you going to blame it? What needs to be healed then? You see, I try to get them to logically peel that onion down themselves before we get into the crux of things.
Nick McGowan (32:23.365)
Makes sense. mean, even with the paranormal side of it, I think I’ve seen different, again, shows where those are shows. Those are syndicated. There are things to it. Some of it’s kind of almost funny. Like there’s a one show that comes to mind where they always, I forget what the name of it is, but the guy’s name is Zach. He’s the main guy. Then he has one of his other dudes. He always throws them to the wolves. He’s like, do you got to go do this? And he’s like, why is it always me?
Deborah LeBlanc (32:49.964)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (32:52.467)
Like, well, part of that is because we enjoy seeing the doof like get tossed in the mix. But I’ve also seen different things, YouTube wise or some deeper researching of things, home movies of things where you can tell that there’s something, but there’s also potential for exaggeration. There’s like you were talking about, and I think that’s really important to be able to call out that the subconscious does not care what’s
quote unquote real or not because it’s all real. It’s how we relate to it and what we do with it. How we can also then be able to do something with that and being able to be logical about it. At least let’s be scientific about it. How could this actually be the case? It’s interesting that we’re having this conversation now because for some reason, I don’t really know why, but about a week ago, I started to rewatch the X files.
Deborah LeBlanc (33:49.922)
yeah.
Nick McGowan (33:50.117)
just at the end of the night and all watch an episode or two. And I love the X Files as a kid. But I didn’t fully understand it. Because honestly, I was born in 84. And I mean, the X Files were their early 90s. So like, I didn’t fully grasp. But being able to go back and see how some of that is and even the difference between Mulder and Scully where Scully is like, scientifically, this is what it is. Mulder is like, I want to believe in all of that. And I think there’s a mixture of both of those people.
in most people that can feel and see these things. It’s really important, I think, as a takeaway for us all to be able to look at and say, all right, if I step outside of this, paranormal, normal, quasi normal, abnormal, all the types, to be able to say, well, logically and scientifically, how could this be the case? Is it an abnormal or paranormal thing? Or do I just want it to be because I’m bored?
or I want a little bit of spice in my life, or is it literally just a scientific thing that’s happening right now? Like I’ve enjoyed, and again, this is just funny that this is the time of life that I have right now. Watching some of these episodes where some of these things are just strictly scientific in that moment, like even stuff with the Bermuda Triangle. So many people talk about all these paranormal things and all that stuff that’s happening. I have a feeling that a lot of it’s actually electromagnetic and where it’s at within the globe.
Deborah LeBlanc (35:06.082)
Right.
Nick McGowan (35:14.801)
and also the things that are under the water that are pulling on those things. And it’s not just like there’s some sea monster under there that just swallowing people up. But then again, we also like the fantastic, the things that are abnormal. Look at the TV shows, look at the movies, look at all this stuff that’s out there. It can influence us in those sort of ways. But I think from a basic human level, we want to believe that there are things that are outside of us.
Deborah LeBlanc (35:19.564)
I agree.
Deborah LeBlanc (35:25.708)
Right.
Nick McGowan (35:43.101)
but we also want to be comfortable and we want to understand that we can control these things, which we really actually can’t except for our actions and the ways that we go about things. So when you go through with your clients with hypnotherapy, what sort of stuff do you give them to work on after the fact so that they can continue to do the work and actually integrate with it?
Deborah LeBlanc (36:07.096)
Well, typically I’ll send them an MP3 of the session, the hypnotherapy session that we’ve just done. So I’ll have them listen to it at least two or three times before we meet again so that it just reiterates what we worked on and helps to strengthen that in the subconscious mind. I do a lot of Ericksonian hypnotherapy and
So it reinforces hearing it over and over again. It’s just like me telling you a story. If I told it to you three times in a week, you’d remember that story by the end of the week. So that’s one of the things that I do. Anything other than that, then I’m usually getting into CBT or DBT treatments, know, with it, depending on their situation.
Nick McGowan (37:05.905)
Yeah, no, I think that’s awesome how we can tie and kind of have a modality stack almost. Like even as you’re talking about it, there’s also acupressure, where being able to state these things over and over and how you feel how it feels in you reshaping that story and then stating it again and having a different feeling with it and being able to then expand upon that either from hypnotherapy or whatever the modality is, and then stacking things upon it. Something that I noticed different people say at times, they’re like, well, I’ve done therapy.
Deborah LeBlanc (37:12.93)
Sure.
Nick McGowan (37:36.915)
like that’s the end of it. I’ve talked to people before and it’s like great. We’ve all been talking since we were kids and learned how to actually speak. But that’s different than processing through it. And that’s different than finding out how do you actually work with that. One of the big reasons why I wanted to bring you on was not only for hypnotherapy, but being able to expand upon that modality as an option for people. Some people have a thing with hip hypnotherapists.
Deborah LeBlanc (37:39.085)
Yeah.
Nick McGowan (38:03.089)
some people think I can’t ever be hypnotized. I’ve seen some people I went to some seminar and like, I don’t know mid 2000s with a hypnotherapist and this one dude was like, I could never be hypnotized. 10 minutes later, he was up on stage barking like dog. And I remember busting up laughing and being like you were the dude who basically called yourself out in a room full of 400 people to then be up there. And he didn’t have any recollection of it because he was hypnotized, but he didn’t believe he could be that goes back to our
our belief in what we think we can do and how we can go about it. So in that sort of sense, with somebody who’s on their path towards self mastery, what sort of advice would you give them?
Deborah LeBlanc (38:43.628)
Well, where hypnotherapy is concerned, I’ve never yet in all my years of training have made anybody bark like a dog or cluck like a chicken. don’t stage hypnotists give hypnotherapy sometimes a rotten name, you know? And when Hollywood gets involved, it gets worse, you know, because people think it’s mind control. And it’s not. It’s not. It’s…
bringing you to a point of relaxation where you can actually hone in on what your real issue is and work through that particular issue. Sometimes we get so busy with life and the noise that life brings that we keep that distraction or what problem we have on a shelf and it comes back to bite us in the butt all the time.
This is where we keep it. We always jack the radio up, you know, whether we’re in the house, it’s a television on, it’s a radio on, it’s, we have to have noise, noise, noise, noise. We can’t deal with the silence. And the silence is where we need to find, is where you find your inner self, where you find the answers to a lot of the problems that they’re going to other therapists to find. That’s, you’ve got the answers within yourself.
And as a hypnotherapist, all my job is to help you listen.
Nick McGowan (40:18.767)
You’re right. I mean, there’s a lot of noise that’s out there. And we do like the noise. And noise isn’t always just actual noise. It can be a distraction of social media can be a distraction of a thing that we call to be a hobby. That is a, it’s a thing for I think, a lot of people that probably don’t really want to talk about it as much where what do they do when they’re just really silent? How do they actually break through?
the barrier of the monkey brain that just throwing random fucking noises and thoughts at you and actually get deeper than that. And I appreciate that hypnotherapy can help with that sort of stuff. This has been an interesting conversation, because it’s not just about hypnotherapy. There’s paranormal to it. There’s a lot of different pieces to it. But it is also really related back to our overall mindset, the stories that we tell ourselves and our subconscious.
Deborah LeBlanc (40:59.17)
Yeah, it does.
Nick McGowan (41:15.099)
So I appreciate you being on today. Before I let you go though, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?
Deborah LeBlanc (41:21.666)
They can go to mindpaththerapies.com and click or Deborah at mindpaththerapies.com and contact me that way. Or they can reach contact at five star leadership.co.
Nick McGowan (41:41.427)
Okay, perfect. And we’ll have that stuff in the show notes. Again, Deborah, it’s been great to have you on. I appreciate your time today.
Deborah LeBlanc (41:48.236)
Thanks a lot, Nick.
https://youtu.be/WC8wlUm_NFc