The ISO Show

If you are going for certification, or currently manage a certified ISO Management System, then you should also be aware of ISO 17021 ahead of any Assessments or Surveillance audits conducted by an accredited Certification Body.

ISO 17021 sets out requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems. It ensures that Certification Bodies provide a reliable assessment of compliance with the applicable requirements, carried out by a competent impartial audit team, to achieve a consistent result for all clients.

So, why should you be aware of this Standard in particular? ISO 17021 also establishes what you as a client should expect from your Certification Body.

Steve Mason, Managing Consultant at Blackmores, joins Mel to discuss what ISO 17021 is, why you should be aware of it and the requirements related to expected service delivery from Certification Bodies.

You'll learn

● What is ISO 17021

● The difference between accredited and non-accredited certification bodies

● A brief overview of the Standard and client related requirements

Resources

● isologyhub

● International Accreditation Forum

● ISO 17021

In this episode, we talk about:

[01:40] Why are we talking about ISO 17021 now? In our internal Team Meetings, Certification Bodies are an established talking point. Highlighting the good and the bad, but in recent months it's been more on the negative side. Steve had highlighted ISO 17021 as the Standard to look at in regard to expected service delivery requirements from Certification Bodies – so here we are!

[03:00] What is ISO 17021? The reason for the standard is that it ensures that all certification bodies are delivering the same level of service to all customers. Certification Bodies don't need to be certified to other standards such as ISO 9001, as ISO 17021 was specifically designed for the purpose of delivering certifications.

It's also the standard where you can find out what's expected of Certification Bodies – like a Terms and Conditions or service level agreement.

[05:00] The difference between accredited and non-accredited Certification Bodies - Go back and watch episode 19 to learn more.

[06:10] Why is it important that the Certification Body is accredited? – Accreditation proves that the Certification Body is being checked by another body. Accreditation is also recognised worldwide – it's trusted as a gold standard of performance. There are many different accreditation bodies around the world, here in the UK it's UKAS, but there are others such as ANAB in the US. Check out the International Accreditation Forum website to confirm the accreditation body for your country.

[08:10] Ultimately, a Certification Body can't offer accredited certification services unless they've actually been assessed by the applicable accreditation body to ISO 17021, and they need to do that on an ongoing basis like any other certification.

They also may not be accredited to deliver every standard they offer – so make sure you verify with the certification body that they are in fact accredited to ISO 9001, ISO 27001 ect.

[09:15] A brief overview of what's included in ISO 17021 – A lot of the clauses before this are really about the management of certification body, but when it comes to clause 9, this is where the customer becomes a lot more involved in the requirements. It covers topics such as planning audits, conducting audits, certification decision making, maintaining certification, the appeals process, the complaints process and then keeping client records.

Clause 9 in particular is where you, as a client, should focus.

[11:00] What core principles are described in ISO 17021? - Impartiality, competence, responsibility, openness, confidentiality, responsiveness to complaints, risk based approach and legal responsibilities.

[12:20] What personal behaviors should you expect from your assessor? – In Steve's experience, he's seen more and more assessors not living up to the requirements of ISO 17021. This could be for a number of reasons, i.e. they could have an uncooperative client, they may not have had adequate training, perhaps there's a break down between clients and client managers. Either way, these are a few of the qualities that Assessors should embody: ethical, fair, truthful, sincere, honest, discrete and open-minded.

[14:00] A lack of open mindedness - Steve had encountered an Assessor that stated 'This must be wrong because I've never seen it done that way' – which is not open minded in the least. This resulted in a non-conformity which should have never been raised.

ISO 17021, clause 9.4.5 states that any non-conformity raised shall be recorded against a specific requirement in the Standard being audited. Assessors need to take heed not to assess to their preference.

[15:15] Top Tip - If you get asked a question, then give an answer and they raise that as a non-conformity that you're unsure as to why it's being raised - it's always worth asking the Assessor to show you where in the standard they're raising the non-conformity against.

It's a case of clarifying the question and verifying what they're raising a non-conformity against, and if there's a justification for it. If there is, then great, they're doing a great job! If not, it may be the Assessor's personal bias, and there's a chance you can get that non-conformity down to an opportunity for improvement.

[17:05] Other expected traits for Assessors to be aware of - Collaborative: It should be a partnership between the client and Assessor – they want what's best for you.

Tenacious: This can sometimes be taken too far. For example, if your Assessor it still assessing past 5pm, tell them to go home. If they need more time, then it's up to the certification body to work that one out.

Other basic traits include: Observational, being perceptive and versatile.

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One of the most common reasons why businesses look to achieve certification is because a client or prospective client is demanding it. Questions are often asked in tenders such as do you have an Environmental policy? A complaints procedure? Data privacy controls? And of course do you have ISO 9001 (the quality standard)? Or ISO 14001 (the Environmental Management Standard)?

These answers accrue points and when bidding for a contract, the more points you can get the better chance you have of winning that lucrative contract, which could bring your company 1 – 3 years of high value revenue and profit.

So why are ISO Standards, Policies and Procedures mentioned in tenders?

And why should you look to align your business with quality, environmental and risk standards?

Join Mel on today's episode as she shares 10 reasons why ISO Standards can help businesses win tenders.

You'll learn

● Why are ISO Standards mentioned in Tenders?

● The difference between accredited and non-accredited certification bodies

● 10 Reasons why ISO Standards can help to win Tenders

Resources

● isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:55] Based on 17 years of running four businesses relating to ISO standards, Mel estimates that 8 out of 10 businesses that look to achieve certification is because they want to win or retain a client contract.

[01:35] If you've got your Policies, Procedures, Standards and systems in place, it does make the whole process of bidding for tenders a lot easier, in addition to giving you a greater chance of winning those tenders.

[02:30] Reason #1: Proof that you have achieved the highest standards - Put yourself in your clients' shoes – would you rather work with a company that pays lip service to protecting your valuable data? Or that they have over 100 controls to manage your data in the security? (Such as in the Standard for Information Security - ISO 27001)

One of the main reasons your clients will be looking for your company to be certified to an ISO as because it demonstrates that you operate your business to the highest global standards.

[04:00] Reason #2: Demonstrates independent 3rd party certification – This means that its not just you that claims that your business has good health and safety controls in place – an ISO certified business has to prove that its compliant year after year. Being certified is proof that you practice what you preach and that there is evidence to back this up.

[04:50] Be careful – know the difference between accredited and non-accredited certification – Go back and watch episode 19 to learn more.

[05:45] Reason #3: Recognised across the globe – Passport to trade – When organisations are looking to expand internationally, ISO certification is often a requirement to deliver services or provide products overseas. This is because ISO Standards are recognised globally as they way businesses should be run.

ISO's aren't just passports to trade internationally – they are also passports to trade in certain sectors. For example in Construction – you aren't going to get very far in tenders if you don't have ISO 9001 (Quality), ISO 14001 (Environment) and ISO 45001 (Health and Safety).

[08:40] Reason #4 – USP - Many organisations adopt ISO Standards to give them a competitive edge and score more points in a tender. For example, let's say you're bidding for a public sector contract worth £2 million, and they are very keen on their suppliers verifying their carbon footprint and being carbon neutral. It would give you a massive competitive edge if you could prove this and demonstrate evidence, once such way would be to get certified to ISO 14064 (Carbon Verification) and PAS 2060 (Carbon Neutrality). If you'd like to learn more about those Standards, go back and listen to episodes 72 and 73.

Note: PAS 2060 is set to become an ISO in the near future! Keep an eye out for news concerning ISO 14068…

[11:55] Reason #5: Risk Management - ISO Standards help to significantly reduce risk. This is why certified business have lower insurance costs and win more business. All businesses need effective risk management – even Law Firms. Over the last few years, we've seen more and more law firms achieve certification to ISO 27001 (Info Sec), ISO 27701 (GDPR) and business continuity (ISO 22301).

[13:20] Reason #6: Meeting customer requirements - The one thing that a client outsourcing services expects as a minimum is that you actually meet their needs. It's not much to ask is it? Though, you would be surprised how many businesses operate without processes!

ISO Standards help to define what your processes, and provide a blueprint for how you run your business – therefore providing clients with a standardised approach that is repeatable and guarantees high standards of quality products and services time and time again.

[14:30] Reason #7: Reduce ambiguity - ISO Standards set out very clear specification – Many of them require certain documents that non-certified businesses often don't have.

One such example is a process for dealing with problems, otherwise known as 'Non-conformities' in the ISO world. Businesses shouldn't just bury their heads in the sand, they should have a system in place to log issues / customer complaints, rectify the issue and put preventative measures in place to prevent a recurrence.

[16:05] Reason #8: Industry specific standards - Certain ISO Standards prove that you meet the highest quality best practice standards for your industry.

Not every industry has specific ISO Standards – but an example of this may be an events company that wants to stand out by being sustainable. ISO 20121 (Sustainable Event Management) would give them a huge advantage over competitors.

[17:10] Reason #9: Competent personnel with clear accountability and responsibility - ISO Standards do stipulate that you have people that actually know what they're talking about, in some cases, for businesses that don't have ISO's, this can be a bit of a steep learning curve.

If you're looking to gain some basic competency in ISO Standards – check out our online learning platform, the isologyhub.

[18:10] Reason #10: Gives assurance to clients for a period of 3 years – ISO Standards are continuously maintained over a 3-year cycle. It's not a case of passing an assessment then waving goodbye to the systems you've got in place to run the business.

You have to prove continued compliance through annual surveillance audits, and recertify after 3 years.

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Quality and environmental management are top priorities for many organisations, backed up by the increasing number of ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certificates being issued every year.

Aside from being a popular requirement on tenders, ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 provide a robust framework for businesses to ensure they follow Best Practice, enhance their businesses performance and put measures in place to reduce their environmental impact. We often see these two Standards being implemented in tandem, as is the case with todays' guest, Asynt.

Asynt is a global provider of world leading technologies and services for scientific research, developed by chemists for chemists, their laboratory equipment responds to the real demands of industry and academia across the globe.

Today we welcome Siobhan Ellwood, Sales Support at Asynt, as she explains their journey towards ISO 9001 Implementation, and how they embedded ISO 14001 along the way using our online learning platform – the isologyhub.

You'll learn

● Who are Asynt?

● How did Siobhan get involved with ISO Standards?

● What was Asynt's main driver for obtaining ISO 9001 and ISO 14001?

● What did Asynt learn while implementing ISO 9001 and ISO 14001?

● Siobhan's experience using the isologyhub to implement ISO 14001

Resources

● Asynt

● ISO 9001

● ISO 14001

● isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:55] An Introduction to Asynt - A global provider of world leading technologies and services for scientific research. Based just outside of Ely in Cambridgeshire, they just celebrated 20 years in business!

[02:10] Siobhan's role and how she got involved with ISO Standards: Siobhan is the Sales Support Manager for Asynt, she assist with raising quotations, managing sales orders and providing support for the warehouse.

In January 2023, 3 members of the Asynt Team were tasked with researching and obtaining ISO 9001, with a view to adopt ISO 14001 later on. Siobhan had experience working with Quality Standards thanks to her previous work in aviation and automotive companies, and had even previously implemented the Standard. Naturally, she was a perfect fit to head the ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 project at Asynt.

[05:40] What did Siobhan enjoy most about Implementing ISO Standards? Initially, realising that she had a lot more knowledge about ISO than she gave herself credit for. Also, making use of the 5 Why's to identify where something has gone wrong, implement a solution and preventing it from recurring.

[06:40] What were the main drivers behind Implementing ISO 9001 and ISO 14001?: For ISO 9001 – Top Management saw the need to have proper procedures in place, to ensure that everything was written down and could be communicated and conducted by other staff if needed. Ultimately, they wanted a cohesive system where everything, included roles and responsibilities, were documented and managed.

For ISO 14001 – Customers often ask for ISO 9001, but ISO 14001 was also starting to pop up in conversation more. Top Management at Asynt wanted to get ahead of the curve and make the move towards becoming more environmentally friendly. It was also seen as a stepping stone towards being in a position to calculate their Carbon Footprint and make further improvements.

[09:50] The ISO 14001 Coaching Programme – Asynt were one of the first companies to go through our ISO Coaching Programme, hosted via the isologyhub. This programme combined the DIY digital platform with group coaching sessions, allowing all participants to work collaboratively towards creating their own Environmental Management System.

[10:20] Siobhan's experience with the ISO 14001 Coaching Programme: Overall Siobhan had a very positive experience in the coaching programme, a few highlights include:

Sharing ideas: Other participants come from a wide range of industries, and each brought their own unique ideas to the table, encouraging others to look at things from many different points of view.

Support: If another participant is struggling with something, there is a group of people to support and provide possible solutions. Siobhan gave an example of where she provided an Excel guide to another member who was looking for a solution.

Resources: Siobhan had previous experience with implementing ISO Standards, so she was aware of what type of documentation was required. She found the resources on the hub useful to refer to outside of coaching sessions, to enhance Asynt's own ISO Standard Implementation.

[12:20] What was the biggest Gap identified during Asynt's Gap Analysis? Mostly it was the lack of documentation, which required a lot of work to get everything written down in cohesive processes and procedures.

For ISO 14001, Asynt are fortunate enough to own the buildings that they operate in. So, gathering the initial information required where potential energy and environmental improvements could be made was fairly easy.

[15:00] What differences did Asynt see after addressing the identified gaps? For ISO 14001 – Some elements were already in place (recycling waste ect), but weren't being monitored in any meaningful way. Now Siobhan has got processes in place to ensure the recycling is being separated correctly and weighed so they can properly gauge their impact.

For ISO 9001 – It was the introduction of the 5 Why's, which Asynt have used to great effect to identify problems and implement solutions. An example of this can be found in their warehouse, lanes and shelves weren't labelled, causing confusion. It was a quick fix that could have been implemented years ago, but the 5 Why's forced a much needed change.

[18:00] What did Siobhan learn from the experience of Implementing ISO 9001 and ISO 14001? Integrating a Management System can save on a lot of paperwork! Initially the plan was to have just an ISO 9001 System, with ISO 14001 implemented at a later date. Going through the process of Implementing them as the same time highlighted how much easier it would be to combine them, thanks in part to how many elements overlap between the two.

It also makes the system a lot easier to interact with, having everything in one place rather than spread between two separate systems means staff don't have to waste time digging for policies and Procedures.

[20:00] Certification plans: Asynt are well on their way towards ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certification with their Stage 1 in October and Stage 2 in November 2023. With just under 2 months before the Stage 1, Siobhan plans to continue working through some opportunities for Improvement, raised by Blackmores in some recent Internal Audits.

[21:41] Siobhan's top tip: Trust in the process and make sure that you have the right person in your business to lead the ISO project.

Also being open to change, being honest with yourself about where the gaps are and trying to get those closed but also manage expectations within the business.

[23:50] Siobhan's book recommendation: Salt path by Raynor Winn.

[26:05] Siobhan's favorite quote: "Personal growth is not a matter of learning new information, but unlearning old limits" – Alan Cohen

If you'd like to learn more about Asynt check out their website!

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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The UK events industry accounts for 35% of the UK visitor economy and is estimated to be worth £42 billion, yet it is still incredibly wasteful, with 68% of waste going directly to landfill.

Haymarket Media Group is a global media data and information company, who offer a wide range of digital print, tech and live event services. Haymarket UK had been certified to ISO 14001 (Environmental Management) and ISO 50001 (Energy Management) for a few years prior to 2019, covering most aspects of their business from a sustainability point of view.

However, their live events still had many sustainability opportunities that were not being taken into consideration by their existing certifications. So, in early 2022 they embarked on their journey to gain ISO 20121 (Sustainable Event Management) certification.

Today, Gary Charlton and Natalie Harris from Haymarket join Mel to discuss exactly why they added ISO 20121 to their portfolio, the challenges faced with Implementing the Standard, and the benefits gained from certification.

You'll learn

● Who are Haymarket?

● What is ISO 20121 Sustainable Event Management?

● Why did Haymarket choose to Implement ISO 20121?

● What challenges did they face?

● What are the benefits of ISO 20121?

Resources

● Haymarket Media

● ISO 20121

● isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:50] An Introduction to Haymarket Media Group - A global media data and information company, with offices in the UK, US, Germany, India and Asia. They produce live events (including award ceremonies, conferences and exhibitions), digital print, education data and tech services.

[02:25] Gary Charlton is the Head of Procurement for the UK - Part of his role includes supporting the Haymarket approach towards sustainability, to ensure their products and services are as environmentally and socially sustainable as possible.

[02:45] Natalie Harris is the Procurement Executive at Haymarket – A lot of her role revolves around live events in addition to purchasing our products and services. Additionally, she advises the wider team on buying legally, sustainably and ethically. Both Natalie and Gary form a team, and were the main driving force behind the creation of their Sustainable Event Management System.

[03:40] What is ISO 20121?: ISO 20121 was launched for, and named after, the 2012 Olympics, making it the worlds first sustainable Olympics! The Standard provides a framework for managing events sustainably, that includes having the policies, procedures, registers and records to demonstrate that the events are being run in a sustainable manner. Being certified indicates that a company is not just paying lip service to sustainability, it's actually practicing what they preach. If you'd like to learn more about ISO 20121, go back and listen to episode 38.

[05:30] What was the main driver behind Haymarket achieving ISO 20121?: Haymarket first contacted Blackmores about assisting with ISO 20121 Implementation in 2019. At the time, they were already certified to ISO 14001 and ISO 50001, so they understood the benefits that came with ISO certifications - including the framework to start making better decisions and accurately measure what you're doing.

Their head of facilities had started the process of evaluating other areas they could improve with ISO Standards, particularly around sustainability. Live events are a large service offering for Haymarket, which has a significant environmental footprint, so a case was put forward for the benefits if reducing that impact with the help of ISO 20121. The team running their live events were very positive about the potential benefits presented, and the go ahead was given.

[07:20] Sustainability is central to how Haymarket wants to operate – Implementing ISO 20121 would ensure that there was more standardisation across their processes. This would introduce some uniformity that could apply to all types of events, which was very important to the Live event lead - Donna Murphy.

Natalie was in the right place at the right time, already in the position of working in collaboration with Haymarket's Live events team on sustainable procurement, ensuring that due diligence was followed with suppliers and their accreditations. So, it was a no-brainer getting her on board with the ISO 20121 project!

[09:30] How long did it take to implement ISO 20121?: Haymarket engaged in Blackmores services in February 2022 and were accredited by July 2023. In total, it took 18 months for the planning, creation and development ahead of the assessment.

They ensured the system was refined to ensure it worked efficiently, encouraging continual improvement and a harmonious approach for the whole business.

[11:15] Above and beyond: Haymarket received a lot of praise from their Assessor – highlighting their thoroughness, including the involvement of top management and many others within the organisation in the creation of the Management System. Also for ensuring that the system would be applicable for the 4 main types of events that Haymarket runs.

[12:00] ISO 20121 requires an audit to be conducted during a live event – So Haymarket had a lot to consider when selecting the event to be audited.

[13:30] Haymarket's key insights on Implementing ISO 20121: #1: The Gap Analysis was an integral part of the process – by highlighting the gaps you can clearly see where improvements can be made. While they may have been a bit crestfallen and daunted by the gaps presented, they came out if knowing they already had around 27% of a Sustainable Event Management system already in place – partly due to their existing certifications.

This soon bumped up to 59% at the half-way checkpoint! This assured them that ISO 20121 was within reach, and simply required at bit of time and effort to achieve.

#2 Having leadership involvement and backing – They were quick to involve their live event lead, Donna Murphy, in key decision making and with the roll-out of the Management System. She was instrumental in ensuring the Standard was in place and being followed.

[18:45] What were some of the gap identified and how did Haymarket bridge them? Required documentation – Many ISO standards have required documentation. A lot of times companies do have a lot of it place, but it's simply just not formalised. Natalie highlights that this was the case with a Risk Register. It's not a universal company need to have, but as part of the Procurement Team it's simply a part of who they are and what they do.

For live events, they need to do the appropriate health and safety checks, but it wasn't formalised in any way. Thankfully their facilities and environment specialist, who assisted with the existing ISO 14001 and ISO 50001 certifications, was on hand to help with the creation of risk procedures based on procedures from the existing Management System.

With this collaborative approach, using elements from the exiting Management System, they created 31 brand new documents consisting of Procedures, Registers, Log and Records that are continuously used, monitored and updated.

This new documentation, while a lot of work to create, ultimately helps Haymarket track, measure and set parameter's for continuous Improvement. It ensured they have a really visual system, with a clear view of what needs to be done to run sustainable events.

[23:00] What difference has Implementing ISO 20121 made?: There was a big amount of short-time work for a long term gain. It's not simply a stack of useless documents sitting in a corner, it's a living, breathing system that is injected into the business.

The Management system is of benefit to everyone, including those new to Haymarket's team as it provides a structured and standardised approach to sustainable event delivery. It's provided knowledge and helped to develop new skills that will stick with all those that interact with the Management system, whether they stay with Haymarket or move elsewhere.

Ultimately, it's all about ensuring they are doing the right thing for the planet. By creating more sustainable events, they are reducing their impact as a whole.

[26:00] What is the main achievement from being certified to ISO 20121?: Morale and confidence that they can say they really do practice what they preach. They could hold a mirror up and say, right, we've created this system and we're confident in it – with internal audits conducted by third-parities to confirm they're on the right track with their intended goals.

Certification is not the end goal. You have annual Surveillance Audits to check-in, so the system must be a long-term feature in your business, and it must drive continual improvement.

[27:50] What top tip would Gary and Natalie give for ISO 20121 Implementation? Gary: Make sure you're resolute in your reasoning for Implementing the standard and the implications of doing so. Also, enlist the help of someone with Implementation experience!

Natalie: Don't underestimate the amount of work required. Select someone in-house to manage the project and when / if you can, use external resources such as a consultant to assist. They can also provide unbias, reflective feedback to ensure you're on the right track.

[30:10] What's a favorite quote? "The greatest threat to our planet is the belief that someone else will save it" – Robert Swan

If you'd like to learn more about Haymarket check out their website!

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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Energy Management can be a tricky topic to approach depending on your industry. There are a lot of factors that need to be considered to ensure that you are accurately monitoring and measuring your energy consumption.

Thankfully ISO 50001, the Standard for Energy Management, does provide a lot of useful guidance to help you get started. As a reminder, ISO 50001 can help your business to continually improve its energy performance, energy efficiency, energy use and energy consumption. Building an energy management system (EMS) based on the requirements of ISO 50001 will ultimately help you to understand, monitor and measure your use of energy.

However, even with the guidance, we often see a few common mistakes companies make while managing their EMS. Today Darren Morrow, Senior Isologist here at Blackmores, joins us to share his top 5 mistakes to avoid while managing an EMS.

You'll learn

● What is ISO 50001?

● 5 mistakes to avoid while managing an Energy Management System

● How can you avoid these mistakes?

Resources

● isologyhub

● ISO 50001

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:30] What is ISO 50001? ISO 50001 is all about continually improving energy performance, energy efficiency, energy use and energy consumption. By Implementing an energy management system, you will be able to fully understand and monitor and measure your use of energy. Like most other ISO's, continual improvement is at the heart of ISO 50001, and It's also based on the Annex SL format. So, it shares some similarities with Standards such as ISO 9001 and ISO 14001. If you've got ISO 14001, you're already half-way there!

[01:14] We have a more detailed walkthrough of ISO 50001 Implementation available in our steps to success podcast series, which are episodes: 84, 85 and 88

[02:00] Mistake 1 – Lack of commitment from top management: This can be one of the biggest issues and can cause the most damage in relation to any management system.

A lack of support from top management often leads to:-

· A loss of motivation for improvement

· A lack of financial support and resources – The EMS should be considered in budgets so you can account for any additional maintenance that needs to be done to ensure equipment is running optimally, or possibly investing in newer technology that is designed to be more efficient.

· Lack of alignment of the EMS and organisational goals and objectives – Everyone in the business should be aware of the organisation's goals, if energy management is included as part of those goals, then they are more likely to be fulfilled.

Having a commitment from top management ensures that EMS is part of the business and not just a bolt on.

[03:25] Mistake 2 – Built by one person or department: If one person is deemed ultimately responsible, even if supported by top management, overall commitment throughout the business can be difficult, sometimes with comments such as 'that's Bob's job'.

With one person or department, there can be the lack of authority to make decisions, and inevitably they can become siloed from the rest of the business - not hearing about improvement opportunities, not being involved in internal projects, etc.

Ensure that, even in a smaller businesses where one person may form the 'Energy Team', that everyone is able to contribute.

[04:20] Mistake 3 – Rushed Implementation of the Energy Management System: This can lead to confusion as to who is responsible and what responsibilities are shared. It can also lead to failures to record opportunities for improvement, or for monitoring and managing any deviations in energy consumption that may occur and require investigation.

There is also the risk of a lack of awareness amongst staff if you've not taken the time to communicate roles and responsibilities in relation to the EMS.

[05:30] Mistake 4 – Manual controls that can be overridden by staff: A lot of what you monitor and measure may be automated, but there will always be elements where there is a potential for human error. So ideally, where possible during energy reviews or audits, consider those elements that humans have direct impact for the control and influence of energy.

Typical examples include:

· Heating and cooling - Problems and excessive energy use can be caused through individuals changing temperatures resulting in equipment working harder and on many occasions working against each other.

· Lighting - Many companies now have sensor controlled lighting, this ensures lights are only switched on when required. Manual lighting controls typically have resulted in lights being switched on and left on in rooms that are not occupied, example being meeting rooms.

[06:50] Mistake 5 – Data collection and monitoring: Data collection is crucial in supporting decision making and also to be able to demonstrate improvement. Common pitfalls in this category include:

· Lack of attention to monitoring and measurement results / trends – there is a likelihood that data will not be collected properly, recorded incorrectly, resulting in data that is only used to populate a spreadsheet or software based database, and does not provide any valuable information.

Results may not be analyzed at appropriate times to identify any trends or issues / deviations that may arise, potentially leading to inefficiencies in equipment operations, and ultimately increased costs

· Poor data collection and record keeping and general housekeeping - Data if not collected periodically, covering determined periods, will result in being unable to compare consumption on a like-for-like basis. This means you will only be recording usage, with significantly reduced means to identify opportunities for improvement and / or causes for deviations.

· Relying on energy bills (estimated and not reading meters) – This should be a last resort for data collection. This will not provide accurate information to base decisions on, inevitably bills will show an estimated consumption and cost, followed by a 'reading' sometime during the year, resulting in an amendment or adjustment being made - primarily cost.

This has a significant impact the data collected, along with any possibility of accurately identifying improvements and / or deviations that could impact the business

[09:40] We're offering a Buy 1 Get 1 Free offer on isologyhub memberships until the 31st October 2023! Contact us to book a demo.

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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There are a lot of tedious tasks that we put off, or would rather just not do! Often, these types of tasks don't take too long, but can cause delays if not completed. If you find yourself battling with this, it may be time to ask:

Where could you save 10 minutes a day?

That's the exact question Lorna Leonard, Managing Director of Leonard Business Services, asked her team at the start of 2023. Focusing on tasks that were being put off for various reasons, Lorna found a potential time saving of 52 hours a month!

Today Lorna joins us to share her story of how saving just 10 minutes a day can potentially lead to 8 days' worth of time saved, in addition to the pitfalls and solutions she found along the way.

You'll learn

● Who are Leonard Business Services

● Why did the 10 minute initiative start?

● The power of saving 10 minutes a day

● What challenges did they face?

Resources

● Leonard Business Services

● Lorna Leonard's LinkedIn

● ISO 9001

● isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[01:25] An Introduction to Lorna Leonard and Leonard Business Services – a virtual finance department who are certified to ISO 9001. Lorna also joined us on a previous episode, Chaos to Calm, to talk about their experience working during the COVID pandemic.

[03:25] The challenge: Lorna started off with only 1 other member of staff, over the years they've grown to 7, with an increasing number of associates. With the organisation growing, Lorna was unable to be as hands on as she was before, so some things started to slip through the cracks. She wanted to ensure that was nipped in the bud early on.

The nature of her business needs very specific qualities in individuals, ones that are hard to come by. So, she was seeking to save as much wasted time with her current team as possible.

[04:50] Nothing is ever down to human error, it always comes down to a process – Some words of wisdom from Rachel Churchman, a Blackmores Managing Consultant who works with Lorna with on-going support. Processes change, they need regular review and updates to ensure they work well for you. Lorna found that a number of their processes created bubbles of inefficiency, which resulted in various 10-15 minute tasks that others found frustrating to complete.

[05:50] Saving 10 minutes a day: As a result of the process review, Lorna decided to focus on just saving 10 minutes a day – taking baby steps to tackle a bigger problem. She asked all of her staff to think of any tasks they found frustrating, and added them to a log. She kept that log going until May, to capture a snapshot of the issues before tackling them. This is just so she could measure the results more accurately later on.

[08:15] What tasks did Lorna's staff highlight as frustrating?: A lot of problems were a result of software systems not talking to each other, meaning a lot of basic merging / collating of data had to be done manually between 2 systems.

[09:25] How they calculated the potential time-savings: Using the log, they estimated the time taken for each task, including consideration for which other members of staff may be affected by the same issues. At the end of the May, they found that there was a potential time-saving of 54 hours, which amounts to a full 8 days of work!

[11:25] Taking principles of ISO 9001 to heart: Lorna has truly embraced one of the key elements of ISO 9001 – addressing non-conformities through looking at your risks and weaknesses. By taking a step back and shining a spotlight on the negative, you can work towards making a positive change, and continually improving your way of working.

[13:30] How did Lorna's team feel about the iniative: At the start, it was like pulling teeth. Many felt as if the wasted time was a reflection on their performance rather than a failure of processes and systems which weren't working as efficiently as they could. Once improvements were starting to be implemented, the team could see just how valuable this exercise was. Lorna even received kudos (through an internal perk system) from the Team!

[16:45] A part of the exercise involved accepting some things that you can't change.

[17:00] The tip of the iceberg: One issue can lead down a deeper path. For example, Lorna found that their expenses app wasn't integrating with their accounting app – resulting in a manual exchange of data. By talking to app support, they were able to find a solution. 2 weeks later Lorna found that, that solution resulted in fixing a problem elsewhere that she wasn't even aware of!

[18:30] For the things that can't be changed, there is always a possibility to look at more long-term solutions that may require a roadmap to get to. The key takeaway is that you're making worthwhile improvements, no matter how quickly or long they may take to achieve.

[19:30] Other types of solutions found: Most of the solutions came down to outsourcing. For example, Lorna is not a software expert, so resolving the software system issues would have taken a long time. Luckily, she found an associate in Michigan who specialised in API development, who could create ways to make the systems talk to each other using Zapier. It wasn't always possible as some apps don't allow for custom triggers, but there was a lot of issues he could help resolve. Lorna now thinks of him as an extension of the team.

[22:00] Another example of time-saving: Lorna's team often have to fill out P11D's and submit them to HMRC on behalf of clients. The format that is provided made it difficult for staff to fill out, meaning it caused a lot of headache and wasted a lot of time just trying to reformat them in an easily editable way. They managed to source a system that does this for them, at a small cost per year. It was definitely worth it – saving the whole team 3 days' worth of time a year!

[26:00] Leonard Business Services is a perfect example of how taking a proactive approach can lead to great success. They have won a number of awards over the years, and will no doubt win many more in the future.

If you'd like to learn more about Leonard Business Services, check out their website! Also take a look at Lorna's LinkedIn, where she shares a lot of insightful business tips.

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

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We're already seeing the devastating effects of failing to maintain global warming at the 1.5 degrees, as pledged in the 2015 Paris Climate Agreement. In order to get this back on track we all need to consider our current energy consumption.

So, what can businesses do to manage their impact?

That's where ISO 50001, the Standard for Energy Management, comes in! ISO 50001 can help your business to continually improve its energy performance, energy efficiency, energy use and energy consumption. Building an energy management system will ultimately help you to understand, monitor and measure your use of energy.

Today Darren Morrow, Senior Isologist here at Blackmores, joins us to share his top 5 top tips for ISO 50001 Implementation.

You'll learn

● What is ISO 50001?

● 5 top tips for Implementing and Energy Management System

Resources

● isologyhub

● ISO 50001

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:52] We have a more detailed walkthrough of ISO 50001 Implementation available in our steps to success podcast series, which are episodes: 84, 85 and 88

[01:05] What is ISO 50001? ISO 50001 is all about continually improving energy performance, energy efficiency, energy use and energy consumption. By Implementing an energy management system, you will be able to fully understand and monitor and measure your use of energy. Like most other ISO's, continual improvement is at the heart of ISO 50001, and It's also based on the Annex SL format. So, it shares some similarities with Standards such as ISO 9001 and ISO 14001. If you've got ISO 14001, you're already half-way there!

[01:40] ISO 50001 and ESOS – ISO 50001 can also help you comply with ESOS (The Energy Savings Opportunities Scheme). If you'd like to learn more about that, listen to episode 138.

[02:50] Tip 1 – Top Management commitment and allocation of resources: This is vital, as the reason for implementation, management, requirements and aims along with expectations of everyone within the business for their support, is clearly demonstrated and communicated from the top down.

With an energy management system, part of this commitment includes making sure suitable resources are made available, this includes:

· People - For implementation, maintenance and improvement of the systems, including the means of gathering and reporting data.

· Financial support - There will be times where investment will be required. Ensuring existing equipment maintenance and servicing undertaken as required to maintain efficiency.

Allocate clear responsibilities for individuals e.g. gathering data such as meter readings, fuel usage, so that this is done consistently and the data is not only available but accurate.

[04:14] Tip 2 – Data: For data collection we need to understand certain things, an Energy review will support the identification of energy sources, identify and understand energy use and determine clear performance monitoring and indicators, leading to the determination of the data required. Some key considerations include:

· Identify sources of energy and your energy consumption from the energy review

· The quality, precision and accuracy of the data collected needs to be considered and monitored if measuring / monitoring results are to be meaningful.

· Data collection frequency should be determined and maintained to support the overall statistical analysis.

Finally, set goals and targets for improvement (EnPIs) - this can be in overall energy consumption, specific equipment improvements, other ratios measures such as consumption per person of consumption vs revenue.

[06:10] Tip 3 – Align and Integrate with other business management systems, goals and strategies: Sounds simple, but not always undertaken effectively, when implementing an energy management system consider any other management system that is already in place and look at any similarities, any elements that already exist that can be tweaked or expanded - this way, it is treated as 'business as usual'.

[07:20] Tip 4 – Communication, training and awareness: Communication plays a key role in any system, make sure you:

· Communicate requirements, goals and commitments, and objectives or targets.

· Keep staff informed of what's going on as their involvement and direct actions support achieving goals and targets, along with identifying improvements.

· Assign responsibilities, create a team and/or assign a champion - This supports the effectiveness of data collection, and also can increase motivation and encourage identification of energy saving opportunities

Energy savings require the commitment of the whole workforce. There ideally needs to be a champion in the organization who can drive change and savings.

[08:41] Tip 5 – Record opportunities for improving energy efficiency: Any and all identified opportunities can be, and should be logged and monitored for suitability, no matter how 'far out there' these may be.

Some may not be appropriate or feasible immediately, or in the short term, possibly due to costs / investment requirements. However, once an opportunity is logged, it can be monitored, assigned financial support and be planned for Implementation.

[10:40] We're offering a Buy 1 Get 1 Free offer on isologyhub memberships until the 31st October 2023! Contact us to book a demo

Stay tuned for next weeks' episode as Darren joins as again to highlight 5 key mistakes to avoid while managing an Energy Management System.

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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We sadly often see Management Systems fade into the background following successful certification. When this happens, it can stagnate and cease to be a driving force for continual Improvement within the business.

So, what can you do to reinvigorate interest?

That's where the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan comes in! This Gameplan was created by today's guest, Sarah Ball, an isologist here at Blackmores and one of the main driving forces behind our online membership – the isologyhub.

Today Sarah will continue on from the last episode and explain the last few steps in the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan.

You'll learn

● What is the isologyhub

● What are the final 4 steps in the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan?

Resources

● isologyhub

● What's in a name

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:55] The isologyhub is our online Membership our online membership site that includes a full ISO 14001 roadmap to help you create and launch your own bespoke environmental management system. Also included are a suite of templates and training on various ISO's to help take you from zero to hero in ISO Standards.

[01:15] Sarah Ball created the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan in addition to many other resources on the hub. She is one of the key people behind the hub's creation and currently drives it's development.

[01:30] This is part 2! We covered what the Engagement Amplifier is, along with the first few steps in the Gameplan in the last episode. If you missed out, I highly recommend going back and giving it a listen.

[01:45] Step 4 – Champions: A team of management system Champions, whether that be Health & Safety Champions, Quality Champions or any other discipline, can have a significant impact on engagement levels. They can advocate for the management system and, crucially, Champions lead by example when they engage with the management system themselves. In Step 4 of the Gameplan takes you through what Champions can do, what makes a good team of Champions and how to start your own team of Champions.

[03:40] Step 5 – Brand Boost: This is how you brand and sell your management system to your employees and other key stakeholders, which is crucial to how they relate to it and engage with it. It walks you through the importance of a brand identity for your management system, how to develop this and how to launch, or re-launch, the management system with a new brand within the business. This step can be useful for the implementation of your management system and for when engagement has really fallen. For further listening – go back to our 'What's in a Name' episode.

[04:30] Practicing what we preach – We did a recent rebrand of our Management System at Blackmores. Even though it's a mature system that's years old, we felt that it wasn't doing much for us. So we followed our own plan and created H20 (How 2 Operate), a much more accessible and collaborative Management System that is housed on our shared Teams channel and SharePoint.

[05:40] Step 6 – Communicate and Celebrate: . Ongoing communication is a key part of maintaining momentum and engagement, it provides an opportunity to keep the management system at the forefront of people's minds and to celebrate successes. It also allows you to recognise examples of engagement with the management system. The Gameplan takes you through what you should communicate and how and is something that you can revisit at any point as your management system matures.

[06:45] Step 7 – Momentum: Once you have reinvigorated engagement, it is crucial to maintain that momentum. This step takes members through how to recognise engagement, continue to reassess engagement levels and developing a future strategy to maintain the desired level of engagement.

[07:50] We're offering a Buy 1 Get 1 Free offer on isologyhub memberships until the 31st October 2023! Contact us to book a demo

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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When a Management System is first implemented, there is often a spotlight being cast on it's importance to the business and everyone's roles in relation to it.

However, we often see this buzz quickly fall off, letting the Management System fade into the background. When this happens, it can stagnate and cease to be a driving force for continual Improvement within the business.

So what can you do to reinvigorate interest?

That's where the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan comes in! This Gameplan was created by today's guest, Sarah Ball, an isologist here at Blackmores and also one of the main driving forces behind our online membership – the isologyhub.

Today Sarah will explain exactly what the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan is, who it's suitable for and give an overview of the first few steps.

You'll learn

● What is the Engagement Amplifier?

● Who is the Engagement Amplifier for?

● What are the first 3 steps in the Gameplan?

● How long does it take to action this Gameplan?

Resources

● isologyhub

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:25] The isologyhub is our online Membership our online membership site that includes a full ISO 14001 roadmap to help you create and launch your own bespoke environmental management system. Also included are a suite of templates and training on various ISO's to help take you from zero to hero in ISO Standards.

[01:15] Sarah Ball created the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan in addition to many other resources on the hub. She is one of the key people behind the hub's creation and currently drives it's development.

[01:45] What is the Engagement Amplifier? The Engagement Amplifier Gameplan, like all the Gameplan in the isologyhub, is an action plan, something you can follow to transform an aspect of your management system. In this case, to increase engagement from across your business and key stakeholders with your management system.

[02:05] What does the Engagement Amplifier aim to address? It is very common after a period of time for management systems to fade into the background a little. The risk when there is a lack of engagement is that the management system begins to stagnate and no longer drives the business forward. So, reinvigorating that engagement is really crucial and the Gameplan walks you through the steps to assess what your level of engagement is now, where you want it to be and how you can get there.

[04:05] Who would this Gameplan be good for? – The Engagement Amplifier Gameplan is good for any company with a management system in place. And for any point in the maturity of your management system. Certainly, the first part of the Gameplan where you will determine what your engagement goal is, and what level of engagement you currently have.

[05:55] Step 1: Assess – This gives an overview of what good engagement looks like, why it is important to measure and, importantly, how you can measure the engagement you have.

[05:40] Step 2: Myth Busting – This is important because a common cause of a lack of engagement is a lack of understanding about what the management system is and how people should engage with it. In this step we explain what some of the myths are and what the reality is, so that members can address these myths in their own business.

[07:15] Step 3: Leadership – This is really key as the approach of the Leadership Team to the management system is one of the biggest factors in the level of engagement with the management system. Leadership set the tone of the organisation's culture and have a significant role in embedding your management system into daily operations and aligning it to your strategy and vision. In this step there are activities for the Leadership team to complete to define how the management system can support strategic goals. As well as practical tips on how the Leadership level can show their commitment and promote engagement with the management system.

[08:40] How long would it take for someone to action this Gameplan? – That can vary a lot depending on how much time you have available to dedicate to it and how many people you want to get involved. It's certainly not intended to be done in a day or even a week. You will need time within each step to engage with others, get feedback and analyse information. Sarah would suggest at least a month, but potentially longer depending on other priorities.

[09:50] We're offering a Buy 1 Get 1 Free offer on isologyhub memberships until the 31st October 2023! Contact us to book a demo

Stay tuned for next week's episode where Sarah will be joining us again to cover steps 4 – 7 of the Engagement Amplifier Gameplan!

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

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With a growing number of threats and risks facing businesses every day, it's never been more crucial to have a proper system in place to mitigate and manage issues when they crop up.

A variety of ISO Standards can help businesses to do just that! And we're seeing an ever-increasing trend of requests for Integrated Management Systems, which combine multiple ISO certifications to cover every aspect of their business. Such is the case with today's guest, Todd Research.

Todd Research have been in the business of designing, manufacturing and supplying X-ray scanners for 70 years. They have since expanded their product range to include other solutions, all designed to detect suspect devices.

We're joined by Caroline Banks, Support Manager at Todd Research, to learn about why they decided to implement ISO 9001 (Quality Management) and ISO 27001 (Information Security), including an insight into their experience with our ISO 14001 coaching programme, hosted on the isologyhub.

You'll learn

● Who are Todd Research?

● Why did they choose to Implement ISO 9001 and ISO 27001?

● What challenges did they face?

● The benefits of ISO 9001 and ISO 27001

● Their experience with our ISO 14001 coaching Programme

Resources

● Todd Research

● isologyhub

● ISO 9001

● ISO 27001

In this episode, we talk about:

[00:37] An introduction to Todd Research and Caroline Banks' role as Support Manager there.

[01:20] What is something not many people know about Caroline? She's taken up running and started with the couch to 5K. She later completed a half-marathon in the same year, and has since gone on to finish 21 more half-marathons and 2 full ones!

[02:27] Who are Todd Research? They were founded in 1950, designing, manufacturing and supplying X-ray scanning equipment. They also provide service and maintenance for their devices worldwide.

[03:11] What Standards are they certified to? ISO 9001 (Quality Management, inherited from a previous company) and ISO 27001 (Information Security Management)

[03:48] What was the main driver for achieving ISO 9001 and ISO 27001? – For ISO 9001 – As a manufacturing company, they want to ensure that they can provide the best quality in terms of product and service. For ISO 27001 – This was more sales driven and was being requested in a lot of tenders, particularly Government tenders.

[04:35] How did Caroline manage an inherited Quality Management System? – Caroline completely revamped the inherited Management System, making it their own and adapting it to suit how they currently run their business. It involved a lot of review and removal of unnecessary documentation, with the end result of streamlining the whole system. They also appreciated a 3rd party coming into review and assist with the process. After moving to a new premises, they are still continually Improving system year on year.

[06:25] How long did it take to achieve certification to ISO 27001? – They started in April 2021 with a Gap Analysis and gained certification in September 2021 (6 months in total). As they already held ISO 9001, they made the decision early on to integrate the two Standards into a Business Management System.

[07:50] What was the biggest gap found after the initial ISO 27001 Gap Analysis? – The biggest challenge for Todd Research was carrying out the Risks Assessments. Getting Directors involved in the review of Standards and agreeing what risks applied to them took the most time in the early stages.

[09:00] Caroline's experience with ISO 27001 – While she had experience with ISO 9001, ISO 27001 was a whole new ball game. There are a lot of risks associated with Information Security including, phishing, malware, risks to hardware ect. This was all new territory for Caroline, but she adapted and learned a lot along the way.

[09:50] What difference has the Management System made to the business? – It's unique to them and their way of working, especially as a result of integrating the two Standards into a single Management System. The whole process gave them a chance to look at the business with a new perspective, which in turn helped them to streamline a lot of processes.

[10:20] What lessons have they learned from Implementing ISO 9001 and ISO 27001? – Caroline now has a better understanding of how the business works from all angles, from manufacturing to finance. Her experience with having Blackmore assist with Internal Audits highlighted the need and importance of impartiality.

[11:20] What are the main benefits? – For them, it's having an Integrated Management System, as a lot of aspects of various ISO Standards share similarities, and it just makes sense to combine them to save on doubling up on documented information. Caroline also highlights the Corrective Actions Log as her key tool for managing actions following on from Internal Audits, allowing for a proactive approach for business improvement on a weekly basis.

[12:50] What is the ENE / ISO 14001 Coaching programme? – Blackmores secured some European funding to support 7 businesses in the East of England to raise awareness of environmental issues and implement some practical tools for Environmental Management. We opted for an ISO 14001 focus and utilized our online membership portal, the isologyhub, as the host with additional coaching from one of our experienced consultants.

[13:25] What was Caroline's experience with the isologyhub and the ISO 14001 coaching programme – Todd Research made the decision early on not to go for ISO 14001 certification. The experience gave Caroline a good insight into what the requirements are for the Environmental Management Standard in preparation for potentially certifying in future.

Caroline highlights the wealth of information available in the hub, including documentation which supplemented the coaching sessions. Her 1-2-1 coaching sessions resulted in deeper analysis of what their business can act on to improve their impact, for example putting in place a scrap metal policy for X-ray scanners and equipment that needs to be disposed of. They have also streamlined their Engineer's service visits, by making the most of them while in any given area to reduce the carbon impact of travel.

[17:00] What was the most useful resource in the isologyhub? – The training provided for carrying out Risk Assessments, with a focus on their environmental risks.

[18:05] What was the main benefit of achieving certification to ISO 9001 and ISO 27001? – Having both standards sets them aside from their competitors, as many have ISO 9001 but not many have ISO 27001. It also brings a sense of continuity to the business.

[18:55] Caroline's top tips – Use an independent company (such as Blackmores) to assist with Implementation. Having a helping experienced hand will make the journey run a lot more smoothly and will give you piece of mind, especially as you have your own day job to worry about!

[19:30] A reminder that the ISO 27001 Transition Gameplan is available on the isologyhub – ISO 27001 recently updated, and those certified with need to update to the latest 2022 version of the Standard. Our Transition Gameplan will guide you through the changes and what needs to be done to update your Management System.

[21:17] Caroline's book recommendation – 'Menopausing' by Davina McCall

[22:17] Caroline's favorite quote – 'It's not so much that I began to run, it's that I continued'

You can find out more about Todd Research via their website!

We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how:

● Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin

● Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.

Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes:

Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube |iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List