The Judge

Judge David Ashton Lewis, introduced as a Supreme Court Judge, joins the 4CRB studio the day after Armistice Day. He talks about why remembering matters, including a powerful film about Passchendaele, the news that 11 Australian soldiers from unknown graves have now been identified, and the pine trees at a small school near Kingscliff, each planted by a family that lost a son in the First World War. He also speaks about the recent damage to a war memorial north of Brisbane, and about the freedoms the fallen secured for us, including the freedom to disagree.

The conversation then turns to the American mid-term elections. Many people assume the US system works just like ours, so the Judge explains the differences in plain language. He covers the Governor-General's reserve powers, the President's dual role as head of state and head of government, the presidential veto, and what happens when the President and Congress are at odds. He also covers what "impeachment" means and which US presidents have faced it.

It's a relaxed, thoughtful chat that will suit anyone who has wondered how Washington differs from Canberra. Along the way you'll pick up some history and a good reminder to keep remembering.

Guest(s): Judge David Ashton Lewis, introduced as a Supreme Court Judge (host not named in the recording)

Topics:

• [00:00] Armistice Day (11 November) and why remembrance still matters
• [00:40] The film about Passchendaele, and the Australian and Canadian soldiers who fought there
• [02:19] Eleven Australian soldiers from unknown graves identified and reburied in France
• [03:18] A young man's vandalism of a war memorial north of Brisbane, and the cost of ignorance and apathy
• [04:03] Towns that lost so many young men, and the memorial pines planted by families near Kingscliff
• [05:38] Archive recordings of veterans, and the freedom to disagree that the fallen secured
• [06:56] Switch to the US mid-term elections and why Australians find American politics confusing
• [07:45] The King, the Governor-General and their reserve powers, including the 1975 dismissal
• [10:29] How the US presidency came about after 1776 and its two roles, head of state and head of government
• [12:15] The President's cabinet, the veto, and the standoffs when Congress is controlled by the opposing party
• [15:13] Why Congress can't simply order the President to bring a fleet home
• [16:03] Trump's win, tariffs, debt, and the limits of what any government can do
• [20:00] A Plato quote that didn't come through, and the meaning of "impeach"
• [21:53] Reserve powers, and how an Australian government is formed
• [23:30] Summary of the show, and who in US history has been impeached

Memorable quotes:

• "Lest we forget, we haven't forgotten." [02:19]
• "The names on those memorials, they in fact guaranteed you the right to disbelieve in it." [05:38]
• "Please get off your backsides and remember, and the key word is remember." [06:56]
• "We should be teaching this and we simply aren't." [09:38]
• "You need to be educated to realise there are limits on government and what governments can do." [17:43]

Mentioned in the interview (people, organisations, events, dates, websites, phone numbers):

• Armistice Day, 11 November (the day before the recording)
• Passchendaele and Vimy Ridge (the film is called "Passiondale" in the transcript, likely Passchendaele; the Judge credits a Calgary film commission)
• Eleven Australian soldiers identified from unknown graves, to be reburied in France
• Vandalism of a war memorial north of Brisbane by a 20-year-old
• Kingscliff and the village up the hill from it, with memorial pines (spelled "Cujin" in the transcript, probably Cudgen)
• Anzac Day, Remembrance Day and the Battle of Britain (commemorations the station marks)
• The US mid-term elections and Donald Trump
• Governor-General, King Charles III, Sir John Kerr (1975), Gough Whitlam
• Barack Obama and Scott Morrison
• The Strait of Hormuz (spelled "Humor's" in the transcript)
• Plato (a quote the host had sent but couldn't find)
• Presidents Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Andrew Johnson and Ulysses Grant (the Judge said he wasn't sure of the details of Johnson's impeachment and invited listeners to check)
• Abraham Lincoln

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this third instalment of the Federation series, Colin welcomes Supreme Court Judge David Ashton-Lewis back to the microphone, by popular demand. They start with a listener's question: what came before democracy? The Judge takes us from Roman town squares to the English "Moot", where tribal leaders heard grievances and handed down rulings. He describes a village green near Sheffield where, he says, tribes pledged allegiance to a single king, and he reflects on Stonehenge as a likely gathering place.

The conversation then turns to how Australia's rules can be changed and how quickly. The Judge explains that the Constitution and Acts of Parliament are the mechanism, and why law tends to be reformed after an event rather than during one. They use COVID as an example, along with Section 109 of the Constitution. From there they discuss the cost of pandemic spending, the $369 billion submarine program, and who ends up paying. The Judge also gives his views on immigration and multiculturalism, past prime ministers, nationalism and protest. He closes on respect for people who disagree with us.

It's a wide-ranging, thoughtful chat for anyone who likes a bit of history alongside the big questions about how Australia is governed. The opinions are the Judge's own, and the hosts invite listeners to say if they'd like a Part 4.

Guest(s): Judge David Ashton-Lewis, introduced as a Supreme Court Judge. Host: Colin.

Topics:

• [00:00] Welcome to Federation Part 3; a listener asks "what came before democracy?"; Roman town squares and representative democracy
• [01:04] The Moot: tribal leaders meeting to hear grievances, and a village green near Sheffield tied to the first king of all England
• [03:45] How a Moot settled disputes, using a stolen cow as the example
• [04:33] Stonehenge as a meeting place, and the mystery of how the stones were moved
• [06:09] Early rule by chiefs, and whether there are written rules for changing how Federation works (the Constitution and Acts of Parliament)
• [07:35] Could we respond faster next time, after COVID? Why law is usually changed after an event, and Section 109
• [09:30] Why law moves slowly; the money the government printed during COVID
• [10:48] Why national spending is a federal job, with the $369 billion submarine example
• [11:36] Paying the debt back through taxes and a growing economy; the importance of understanding economics
• [13:42] Defence spending, the Indo-Pacific, and support from both major parties
• [14:29] Immigration, multiculturalism and the economy, including social and cultural impacts
• [15:21] Reflections on prime ministers from Whitlam to Hawke and Keating, and Pauline Hanson's views
• [17:58] The EU, nationalism, and why the Judge says Fabianism and Marxism want to do away with it
• [21:56] Passion, protest and disagreement; disruptive protests and unrest in Europe
• [23:43] Respect and John Stuart Mill's *On Liberty*; the listener call-out for Federation Part 4 and sign-off

Memorable quotes:

• "It's one thing to see words put out in plain English, but it's another thing to understand them and to interpret them." [06:09]
• "Law usually gets created, amended or clarified after an event." [07:35]
• "Too many levers, David." (Colin, on economics) [12:38]
• "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." [23:43]

Mentioned in the interview (people, organisations, events, dates, websites, phone numbers):

• Section 109 of the Constitution (state law is void where inconsistent with federal law)
• The Moot, an early English meeting of tribal leaders. It marks a pledge of allegiance said to date from 827, with Edmund/Edward of the North and South Saxons (names and date as transcribed).
• Stonehenge and its sarsen stones, some said to have come from Wales
• COVID and the government's spending of about $450 billion (also given as $400 billion)
• $369 billion for 13 nuclear attack submarines (a figure of "$396 billion" also appears, probably a mis-hearing)
• Prime ministers and politicians: Gough Whitlam, Malcolm Fraser, Bob Hawke, Paul Keating, Pauline Hanson, Menzies
• John Stuart Mill, *On Liberty*; Karl Marx; Greta Thunberg; Hitler
• Fabianism and Marxism; the European Union; the Monetary Authority of Singapore
• Listener contact: review the episode online at "crb.com" and email "mail at forcrb.com" (as transcribed; please check the exact web and email addresses before publishing)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Judge David Ashton Lewis, introduced as a Supreme Court Judge, returns to the Radio 4CRB studio for the second part of his conversation with host Colin on Australian federation. After looking at the history in earlier episodes, they turn to where we stand today. Is the system working, does it need a poke or a prod, or should it be scrapped altogether?

The Judge argues that Australia should keep its parliamentary democracy but never treat it as "set in stone". Along the way he talks about the dismissal of the Whitlam government, what politicians owe all Australians, and immigration and multiculturalism, where he shares some strong personal opinions. He also makes the case for federal control in national emergencies such as COVID and wartime, using Section 109 of the Constitution as an example. Colin adds thoughts on duplicated services and daylight saving.

It's a lively, plain-spoken chat for anyone who has wondered how the states and the Commonwealth fit together. Listeners may not agree with every view, but the Judge's challenge is a good one: learn where we came from first, then decide where we go next. The views expressed are those of the guest.

Guest(s): Judge David Ashton Lewis, Supreme Court Judge (as introduced in the recording). Host: Colin.

Topics:

• [00:00] Welcome and recap of the federation series. Today's question is whether it is working, needs reform or should be scrapped.
• [00:45] Why the Judge would never abandon the current system. He rejects rule by business, dictatorship and "Fabians" as alternatives.
• [02:10] Democracy as something open to review, and the problem with one-party states.
• [03:56] The 1975 dismissal of the Whitlam government. The Judge calls it a Governor-General using a reserve power, not a coup.
• [06:01] Governments as "servants of all Australians", and criticism of politicians more concerned with keeping their seats.
• [07:38] The Judge's views on immigration, postwar migration and his proposed orientation programs for new arrivals.
• [11:04] A story about his sister, a school principal in Melbourne's outer west, and the experiences of Turkish parents.
• [12:56] The Judge questions multiculturalism and ethnic enclaves, and relays his sister's recent London experience.
• [13:44] Why he'd defend parliamentary democracy, and the Churchill line about the "worst form of government".
• [15:34] How federation works in practice: the states and the Commonwealth, COVID responses and nuclear energy.
• [16:54] Federal versus unitary government. The Judge argues for national control in emergencies, citing Curtin's wartime government and Section 109 of the Constitution.
• [20:46] Being both a Queenslander and an Australian, COVID and war as times for national control, and daylight saving as a state matter.
• [22:25] Duplicated services and possible savings from single police, ambulance, education and health systems.
• [23:10] Why understanding history matters, with a reading suggestion on the federation debates.
• [25:31] Wrap-up, a hint of a third episode, and how to contact the station.

Memorable quotes:

• "I would certainly never support getting rid of it completely, because what's the alternative?" [00:45]
• "Democracy is the worst form of government, other than all the other forms that have been tried." [14:41]
• "Australia is too big to be governed from Canberra, telling people in Perth what to do." [16:54]
• "In times like COVID or war, being a Queenslander is out the door. You're an Australian." [20:46]
• "If you don't know where you've come from, you'll have little understanding of where you are." [23:10]

Mentioned in the interview (people, organisations, events, dates, websites, phone numbers):

• Gough Whitlam and Malcolm Fraser, and the 1975 dismissal of the Whitlam government (the Governor-General's reserve power)
• Bob Hawke, quoted on governing for all Australians
• Anthony Albanese and the Labor Party
• Winston Churchill, on democracy
• Edmund Burke, quoted (the Judge places this at Westminster in 1793)
• John Curtin and the 1941–45 wartime government
• Sir Edmund Barton and Alfred Deakin (transcribed as "Deacon"), suggested reading on the federation debates
• Section 109 of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia
• Andrew "Twiggy" Forrest and Gina Rinehart (spellings to be checked), mentioned as examples of business leaders
• Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin, mentioned as examples of one-party or authoritarian rule
• Hilton, a previous show co-host, and a show about 14 years ago
• The COVID pandemic, the Queensland government's stance on nuclear energy, and daylight saving
• Email: [email protected] (spoken as "mail at 4crb.com")
• Website: 4crb.com, where the earlier part of the conversation can be found
• Nothing else specific (no phone numbers given)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Colin is joined once again by Supreme Court Judge David Ashton Lewis. This week they answer a question from a listener who asked what Federation means for Australia, how it came about and where we stand today. David says it is poorly taught, if it is taught at all, and he believes too few Australians really know it.

David starts with everyday examples, such as the states handling COVID rules and tobacco sales in different ways. He explains that we all have two identities, as a Queenslander or Tasmanian and as an Australian. He then takes a long walk through history, from early European explorers and Captain Cook to the separate colonies, their self-government in 1855 and the push for one nation between 1889 and 1900. Along the way he touches on the constitutional debates, which powers the states handed to the Commonwealth, and the calls today for a republic or even for scrapping the states.

It is a thoughtful, opinionated conversation. Listeners who enjoy a bit of Australian history, or who have wondered why the states and Canberra seem to be forever at odds, will find plenty to think about. Colin and David also invite listeners to send in topics and say whether they would like the discussion to continue next week.

Guest(s): Supreme Court Judge David Ashton Lewis. The host is Colin.

Topics:

• [00:00] A listener asks about Federation. David says it is poorly taught and uses the COVID and tobacco-retail examples to show how the states act separately.
• [02:21] Our two identities: being a Queenslander (or Tasmanian) and an Australian.
• [03:37] How the colonies looked at the American, Canadian and British systems, and why Australia leaned towards the American model.
• [03:37] Early European exploration as David tells it: a Portuguese voyage in 1523, then Dutch explorers including Dirk Hartog and Abel Tasman.
• [09:30] Captain Cook's 1770 voyage up the east coast, followed by the First Fleet.
• [11:40] How the colonies were created, from New South Wales to Tasmania, Queensland and Victoria, and why David calls them self-governing "little countries".
• [13:17] Self-government in 1855, and a comparison with Germany coming together under Bismarck in 1871.
• [14:58] The case for one nation, and the powers the colonies gave up to the Commonwealth, such as defence, foreign affairs, marriage and banking. David cites Victoria's Belt and Road deal as an example.
• [17:38] The constitutional debates of the 1890s and the figures involved: Parkes, Barton and Deakin.
• [19:26] Whether we should become a republic or do away with the states, the size of the country, and the duplication of services such as police, ambulance and hospitals.
• [21:20] COVID border closures, David's call for regular review of the Constitution, and the Senate.
• [22:15] Gold Coast growth and housing costs, then David's views on political ideologies and on immigration, cultural change and democracy.
• [24:17] David's verdict that Federation has been a good thing, and a light-hearted chat about the hosts' own Victorian, Tasmanian and Queensland backgrounds.
• [26:35] Colin and David ask listeners for topics and say whether they want the discussion to continue next week.

Memorable quotes:

• "It is the basis of who and what we are." [00:00]
• "You're a Tasmanian and you're an Australian." [02:21]
• "Perth is closer to Jakarta than it is to Sydney." [19:26]
• "There needs to be regular review of the Constitution to make sure that it is addressing the problems of 2026, not 1906." [21:20]
• "A West Australian thinks of himself as an Australian in a different way than a Queenslander does." [24:17]

Mentioned in the interview (people, organisations, events, dates, websites, phone numbers):

• Email for listener feedback: mail@4crbcom 
• Listener question on Federation (email from a listener)
• Population figures: about 27.5 million Australians, and a Tasmanian population given as roughly 500,000
• Early explorers: a Portuguese voyage from Dili in 1523 (Cristóvão de Mendonça, spelling uncertain), Dirk Hartog (1606/1616), Abel Tasman (1642) and Captain James Cook (1770)
• Places: Port Phillip Bay, Cooktown, Risdon (Tasmania), Batavia, Van Diemen's Land (renamed Tasmania)
• Colony dates: 1823 (Van Diemen's Land as a separate colony), 1849 (Queensland, as stated), 1855 (self-government), 1889–1900 (Federation period)
• Queensland Mounted Infantry and the Tasmanian Bushrangers
• Otto von Bismarck and German unification in 1871
• Federation figures: Henry Parkes (transcribed "Parks"), Edmund Barton and Alfred Deakin (transcribed "Deacon")
• Daniel Andrews and Victoria's Belt and Road agreement with China
• Annastacia Palaszczuk and Queensland's COVID border rules
• The Communist Party case, early 1950s
• COVID-19 and the state premiers' meetings
• Marxism and Fabianism

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.