Gemma and Phoebe are joined by author, editor, trend forecaster, and all-around mastermind Emily Segal to discuss the unholy self sacrifice of celebrity, why The Kardashians is less successful than its predecessor, the secret lives of the Kardashian sisters, ANXIETY, which sister Phoebe wants to sleep with most, and Bethenny Frankel’s brilliantly addicting TikTok.

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