The Kim Doyal Show

This episode is sponsored by my awesome web host, LiquidWeb

It's no doubt that I'm a huge fan of Beaver Builder page builder for WordPress. Because of how awesome Beaver Builder is, there are a lot of great 3rd party products being developed. One of my favorite products is PowerPack by WPBeaverAddons.

PowerPack takes Beaver Builder to a whole new level with a massive collection of additional modules and templates.

Needless to say, PowerPack is a staple now for me with any site I'm working on (which is pretty much only my own projects at this point, but it's definitely a staple).

I had connected with the founder of PowerPack, Puneet Sahalot, through the amazing Beaver Builder community a while ago and knew I wanted to have him on the show. I was excited to talk to Puneet because they came on the scene pretty quickly and have made a huge mark in the Beaver Builder community. I'm constantly amazed at what they give to the community (they also have their own free Facebook group) as well as offering great tutorials and content on their blog.

 

Questions I Asked Puneet

Before we get into all the awesomeness that is PowerPack, tell us about IdeaBox and the history behind your company.

How did you get into Beaver Builder?

What made you decide to go all in with the Beaver Builder add-on modules?

The Beaver Builder community is certainly an amazing community online. You guys have really embraced the community and become a part of that. How has the journey with PowerPack been?

How do you and your team decide which modules to start with and how do you decide which features to add?

How are you guys marketing PowerPack?

What's coming this year for you and your team?

What You're Going to Learn

How they launched PowerPack in a short period of time and gained massive traction

How they came up with their pricing model

What other plugins Puneet and his team have created

How they're using free plugins to build their audience

Which form builders they created custom modules for first

How their Facebook group drives which features and modules they work on first

How many modules they launched PowerPack with

 

Where to Connect with Puneet

Website | Facebook Group | Twitter

Thanks to my podcast sponsor, Liquid Web, for sponsoring The WPChick Podcast!

 

I know that lead generation and list building are nothing new but hang in there with me.

We're going to go in a little different direction with this and a lot of it might be new to you (or you might be aware of it but haven't implemented it... yet).

My goal with this episode is to get you to look at lead generation and list building from a different perspective, not just something that internet marketers push because "the money is in the list"... because let's face it, in this case, quantity doesn't count as much as quality. I was recently reading a post by Matthew Woodward where he deleted over 40k subscribers from his mailing list.

FORTY THOUSAND!

(if you want to read the full post, click through to Matthew's blog here)

First of all, kudos to him for doing that.

My last purge was over 1000 people, and that was painful. I can't imagine deleting 42k subscribers.

However, he just saved himself a ton of money by getting rid of people who were not responsive. Anyone who hasn't opened your email in the past 6 months probably needs to go. Plain and simple.

 

Let's start with the missing piece of the puzzle to all of this.

There is a correct way to build a list and an incorrect way to build a list. The problem is that you don't know it's incorrect until after the fact (at least I didn't).

And let me say that doing something is always going to be better than doing nothing.

I will confess that I haven't ever purchased a list building course (at least not to my recollection... 9 years in it's quite possible there is something sitting on a hard drive somewhere that promised me wealth through list building).

Not because there weren't plenty of opportunities, but quite frankly, none of them seemed all that appealing to me.

Most seemed to focus on the basics:

I know that's probably over-simplifying it a bit, but you get the picture.

I'm sure there are courses or people out there who get much deeper into this stuff, but for the most part, it seems like so much of this stuff is assumed.

Marketers assume you know how to do this or are already doing it.

Take ClickFunnels as an example.

As a ClickFunnels customer, you can share funnels and import other people's funnels.

All great.

But if you don't have the foundation set up to manage your new subscribers it's a lot of energy for nothing.

Because the magic starts happening in the background with automation.

Some of the things that have to be set up in the background are things like:

Correct lists and segmentation

Tagging framework (if your autoresponder company uses this)

Tracking code on your website

Follow up sequence

UTM links for tracking (any links in your follow up sequence)

Offer at the end

And none of this includes how you choose to communicate and email your subscribers once they've gone through whatever initial email sequence they signed up for.

 

Where I Started

Aweber was one of the first email marketing companies I used and it was great for what I was doing at the time. Aweber didn't have tagging options when I was with them (as of this writing they still don't have options for tagging. There is the ability to create segments but I don't know enough about that to talk about it here). For a long time, I stuck with simply using lists to segment even after I left Aweber.

Once I moved to another platform (probably one of my first times with Infusionsoft), I started tagging people as well (even though I wasn't doing much with the tags).

My first task was to go into Active Campaign and clean up my lists and then tags.

Like I do with everything else, I started with the end in mind. I mapped out the monetization model for WPChick.

From there, I had to take a look at my lists (and any corresponding follow-up sequences) and see if they made sense.

This episode is sponsored by LiquidWeb, my awesome Managed WordPress host

Anytime I hear about anything that will help me with my content creation and planning I get excited.

Plus, you know me and how much I love new tools.

I do have a confession to make, though, I haven't spent as much time as I want to in Airstory. As I've been streamlining things in my business I've started spending more time 'cleaning' things up. So right now everything is a process. It doesn't make a ton of sense to jump into new things before I've made space for them.

My initial interest in Airstory was because of needing to create a content strategy for LeadSurveys (still working on that one). I came across Airstory through Producthunt and as soon as I saw who was behind the app (Joanna Wiebe & Lance Jones of Copyhackers), I knew it was something I wanted to try.

Who would be better at putting together an app for organizing content and writing than a writer?

 

I'll definitely do a follow-up post with how I'm using Airstory and what is working for me (truth: this might take a little longer since I'm approaching my content from a different perspective. In other words, taking more time to create more in-depth content. I'll still produce some quick posts when the mood strikes me, but I want to go deeper most of the time).

Let's jump into the interview

Questions I Asked Lance

Before we get into Airstory, your partner in business and life is Joanna Wiebe and you two are the brains behind Copyhackers. For those who aren't familiar with Copyhackers, can you share what the site is about and what you guys do?

Let's jump into Airstory. Can you explain what Airstory is?

What made you guys decided to create a SaaS product?

Can you share what the process was like for building Airstory?

You guys did a beta run of the app before it launched to the public on February 2nd. How did you determine the length of the beta?

Let's talk pricing. Something that seems to be a little all over the place with SaaS products. How did you decide on the pricing model for Airstory?

What's the plan for the remainder of this year?

What You're Going to Learn

How they went about starting a web app (and why they didn't go with a WordPress plugin)

How long it took to go from idea to beta release (and how changing developers was the right move)

What type of feedback their users have been giving

What features people use most in Airstory

How Airstory is being compared to Google Docs

The roll that cards and drag and drop functionality play in Airstory

What integrations and extensions make Airstory so easy to use

Where to Connect with Lance, Joanna and Airstory

Airstory | Facebook | Twitter

This episode is sponsored by my web host, Liquid Web.

I know, I know.

You guys might be surprised that I'm sharing a way for you to Learn WordPress Development (if you've listened to the podcast intro and my "no boring code snippets here", then you know why I say this), but when I connect with great people doing awesome things, it's easy to step outside my comfort zone a little.

That's what happened when I had the opportunity to speak with Alex Denning, Fred Meyer, and David Hayes of WP Shout.

Fortunately, we didn't get too heavy into development speak.

But we did talk about their in-depth course for anyone who wants to learn WordPress Development (and I'm going to give you a spoiler alert here, but I told them I thought the course was way underpriced. #justsayin).

 

Questions I Asked Alex, Fred & David

There are 3 of you that run the site WP Shout, but before we get into that, share your background (and the background of your partners if you want), with the listeners?

When was WPShout founded? How did that come about?

WPShout is focused primarily on developers. What made you guys decide to focus on that space?

How have you guys monetized the site? Do you also have client projects?

How have you grown your audience?

Tell us about your course, Up & Running. Is this your first course?

Where can people find out more about your course?

What You're Going to Learn

How WPShout evolved

How they took their client work and started creating content with what they were doing

When they first launched Up & Running (and what they've done to make the second version even better than the first one)

How they came up with the pricing for Up & Running (and why I think it's underpriced, hint: get it this round)

Up & Running is open now through March 31st. The guys at WPShout have agreed to give my listeners a 20% discount! Use the discount code WPCHICK at checkout.

Sign Up for Up & Running Today

Where to Connect with WPShout

Website | Twitter | Facebook

This episode is sponsored by my new web host, LiquidWeb

It's time we had a heart to heart.

About Selling.

And why you need to Get Comfortable Selling.

In the past month or so I've come across this topic via conversations with people or through social media conversations (particularly in Facebook groups).

We need to start looking at the real issues with online marketing and why business do or don't succeed... because for some reason this seems to be as mysterious as the Bermuda triangle.

When in fact, it's SIMPLE.

(notice I didn't say easy).

The bottom line is that we (I'm certainly not exempt from this) over-complicate things and get bored doing the things that we can't see immediate results from.

Let's start with Getting Bored

The easiest way to do this is to give you some examples.

I was thinking about all of the different people I've worked with over the years (for websites) and nothing was more frustrating than seeing people get caught up in the peripherals. The things on the outside/edge of their business that really don't matter or make the slightest bit of difference to the bottom line.

Do your logo and colors matter? Sure. But not enough to tweak 287 times.

The same is true for your products and services.

I lost track of how many people spent hours and hours agonizing over the most niggly of crap but never spent the time to hit 'publish' on one single blog post.

Yep, you heard me correctly.

They'd spend all this time (and money) on a website they never officially 'launched' to the world.

They sat waiting for things to happen (their idea of 'work' was paying to have a website created).

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

Years ago (this was probably 5 years ago?) I had a client that I was building a website for. She was working with an internet marketing coach who was telling her what she needed in terms of things on her site and tools she needed to buy. This coach told her to invest in Infusionsoft (which she did) and to put together her 'packages' for her programs and what she was going to sell.

So far, so good, right?

WRONG.

First, the coach had zero traffic strategy for getting traffic to her own website. She was still using the 'uncategorized' category in WordPress and had ZERO... I mean ZERO SEO going on in her site.

Let me ask you a question.

What good is an email list or packages to sell if no-one sees what you're doing?!?! (or knows you exist).

Six months after we were finished working together there was still ZERO new content or anything happening on her site. Nothing new had been written. She didn't have a paid traffic strategy so she was getting zero sign-ups. Of course she was still investing in the 'coach' and other high-ticket programs, people, and events.

You can buy all the courses you want.

Have at it.

But unless you start rolling up your sleeves and implementing, nothing is going to happen.

Other than a big credit card bill and stress.

Stress will rear it's ugly head in all kinds of ways.  You'll doubt yourself, feel resentment that other people seem to be 'making it' and here you are working all these hours but can't get ahead of it (or you do start making more money but your expenses increase right along with your profit).

It's time to focus folks.

I get it, no one wants to hear that they have to stay focused.

That they need to show up and do the work.

MAKE something. CREATE something.

Then get eyeballs on it. Share it, email about it, ask for feedback.

My preaching on this topic comes from my own painful experience of not sharing, promoting and selling sooner.

This really isn't rocket science.

Over-Complicating Things

So apparently it's conference season.

Funnel Hacking Live just wrapped up a week or two ago (ClickFunnels annual event) and this week Digital Marketer's annual Traffic and Conversion summit (T&C) wrapped up.

Ben Settle is the reason I started my daily emails (er, almost daily emails).

I don't remember where I initially came across Ben Settle, but you guys have heard me talk about him enough to know that following his method of daily emailing is one of the best things I've done for my business.

I was a subscriber of Ben's for about a year before I became a customer. Ben sells a monthly physical newsletter called Email Players (as well as a few other products and books). To say I look forward to getting my Email Players every month would be an understatement. I don't know if it's the little kid in me or what, but I love getting that physical newsletter in my mailbox. I guess I'm probably a little old school as well because I still like holding something physical from time to time (as opposed to just a digital version).

Tactics vs. Strategies

This was one of those things I needed to learn through experience.

It's also something I see soooo many people doing with their online businesses. I think it might be a right of passage or part of the process, but if you want to cut your learning curve down by years then stop chasing something you think will be 'it' for you. A course, a guru, a tactic or a platform. None of these things alone will give you the business you want. You might have a quick win or a little success with one of these tactics, but taking the time to really learn and understand direct response marketing (good copy, conversions, content, sales) will create a compound effect.

This was what Ben did for me.

First, he made receiving email fun again.

No, he didn't add a new "you've got mail" ping to my inbox.

He provided entertaining copy that made me want to open his emails. Once I started reading (consuming) the emails regularly I realized I was also learning a ton in the process.

Ben was doing something I hadn't seen anyone else do.

He was selling in every single email.

And I still wanted to open them, every day.

I didn't get offended by his selling, I just kept reading until I was ready to buy (which remember, it was a full year before I jumped in).

I've gotten more validation, more engagement, and more responses to what I'm doing since implementing El Benbo's methods (this is how he refers to himself from time to time) than I ever have before.

The best part?

I'm having more fun in my business than I ever have.

Literally, like EVER.

O.K., let's jump into the interview.

Questions I Asked Ben

Let's talk email. Can you talk about the daily email philosophy and why it works so well?

What are the biggest objections you hear from people about emailing daily?

Why do you think people freak out so much about selling daily as well?

This probably isn't a surprise to the audience, but you do things a little different. You don't worry about open rates, click through rates or any of the stuff that so many marketing 'guru's' preach about. Why don't these things matter (like we think they do?)?

You don't seem to do a lot of marketing for your brand (in terms of ads, webinars, JV's, etc.), yet you have a very successful business. How do you market your business?

What do you tell someone who doesn't have something to sell yet?

What You're Going to Learn

What Weng Chun Kung Fu has in common with email marketing

The concept of being 'un O.K.'

How to listen correctly to your subscribers and sell them what they want, even if they don't know what that is

Why Ben has renamed the internet troll 'Lennox'

The real reason people aren't clicking the links in your emails

The roll timing plays in your emails (not the time of day you send them, but the timing in the lives of your subscribers)

I have to tell you that I had just as much fun listening to this interview as I did when I recorded it.

Here's my suggestion to you when it comes to daily email.

Step into it in a way that works for you. If you're currently emailing once a week,

There was a time when simplifying my business felt like giving up.

What is it about our culture (at least western culture), that we can't shake the 'no pain no gain' mentality? Why does it feel like things have to be hard to be worth anything?

Fortunately, those days are behind me.

Now I feel like I've won the time lottery (it exists in my head, just go with it).

I was talking with a friend recently and I realized how everything I've done in my business has brought me to exactly where I am now and it feels so right.

Let's take a brief stroll down memory lane and we can look at all the iterations of my business. I've come full circle to what it is I really wanted to do (and this path has prepared me to step into this next phase).

I've mentioned a bunch of times that my intention when I started my business was to be an information marketer. I had zero technical skills, no idea about creating websites and had only played with WordPress.com. All I knew was that I was fascinated by online business and knew I had to make it work. I needed to work for myself and pretty much committed to never going back to retail management again (we won't talk about my stint in real estate or insurance, because... yawn).

I'd had my fair share of attempts at other businesses:

MLM (my guess is a LOT of entrepreneurs have been down this path at one time or another)

Contract recruiting for retail

Physical retail scrapbook store

Loan & Real Estate agent

Insurance agent

Dang.

Makes me tired thinking of everything that went into each of those ventures.

Especially the real estate and loan agents, because again, they were a little dry for me (and I am SO not good at being at anyone's beck and call).

Once I connected with this whole online business thing it was like coming home.

I couldn't get enough of it. I was consuming as much information as I could, with a bunch of words I had zero understanding of but it clicked (pun intended).

I KNEW it was possible.

Fast forward 9 years and here are the different paths I've been down that have brought me to exactly where I am today (I can't really give you a definitive timeline, but know that it started in 2008 and has brought me to 2017) Up until 2017 I was still offering websites for clients:

Long story short, I've come back to to the fundamentals of what I wanted to do in the first place.

Is it easier for me now than it would have been even 5 years ago?

Absolutely.

I have an audience and I know so much more.

I'm not weighed down by the challenges of making the technology fit.

However, I will tell you that I had I stayed the course of doing what I knew I was supposed to keep doing (i.e., not getting sidetracked by shiny things) my business would probably be in a different place today. That's not a judgment, simply reminding you of the role you play in getting to where you want to go.

I also know I'm much more confident in my abilities and how I want to run my business today than I was 5 years ago.

As much as I like having a nice income from my business, the freedom to enjoy the fruits of my labor has to be there too. And it wasn't. I had created a business that had more overhead (salaries) than I had ever wanted and I felt like I was in a constant state of chasing something. The big launch, the big lifestyle, the big high-ticket offer, the big 'whatever the latest guru is preaching' thing....

Before you start thinking I'm anti the big lifestyle (or however that may come across), at the end of the day I'm not anti-anything except for what doesn't work for ME.

I had some amazing experiences but I'm not driven but flashy stuff. The houses, cars, planes, watches... none of it gets me excited. Don't get me wrong, I like nice things, but I'm way more inspired by experiences (travel) and freedom.

But I found myself feeling like I needed to keep up with a lot of that and have all kinds of funnels, strategies, campaigns,

Erin Flynn has mastered something we've ALL encountered at one time or another... how to deal with nightmare clients.

Not only does she help you grow your freelance business but how about how to handle those clients that make you want to quit what you're doing? (Kinda makes you want to send her a virtual hug already, doesn't it?).

I was fortunate to connect to Erin through a mutual friend, Curtis McHale (who I had on the podcast a couple months ago). Erin does a lot more than just help you deal with nightmare clients (although of course, that was one of the things I had to delve deeper into. We've ALL been there and have that crazy story of working with someone that made our lives a living hell). Erin has built up her own business (design and websites) and is growing it through a membership program (which she has a free membership also) and courses. I love it.

Erin has been involved in web design since she was 13 and building Sailor Moon fan sites (the beauty of growing up with technology, huh?). After college, she went out and got a job (like we're all 'supposed' to do) and ended up hating it. She hated it so much that she literally just quit one day (something I know many people would love to be able to do). Fortunately, she's figured out the freelancing space and is sharing her knowledge and skills with other people so you can avoid some of the mistakes she's made. She's now transitioning to an agency and has tons of training available to help you grow your business and position yourself as an expert.

Questions I Asked Erin

I always want to know what led someone down the entrepreneurial path. Have you always worked for yourself?

What brought you here?

What is your current business?

You have courses & workshops, did you start with services?

Let's talk about Nightmare Clients.

What made you decide to offer help with this?

I love the "screen, prevent, fire"... can you explain what that is?

You also have a membership for growing your business. Can you share a little bit about the Unstoppable Expedition?

What would you recommend to someone who wants to start a membership?

What's on the horizon for you this year?

What You're Going to Learn

How Erin approaches everything in her business

How a conversation on Twitter turned into a community on Facebook

How her communication skills led to her first product that sold a few hundred right out the gate

Why positioning yourself as the expert is key when starting a new project

Why Erin thinks you should work with a couple nightmare clients (hint: boundaries)

Where to Connect with Erin

Website | Twitter | Facebook

This week I continued my conversation with Gordan Orlic, my partner with LeadSurveys.

Like I said in the podcast last week, this has been a massive education for me (what that I'm loving) and each step of the way gets me more and more excited about LeadSurveys.

This week I wanted to talk about all the pieces that have had to come together, such as servers, payment gateways, payment processors, etc. This will probably open your eyes a bit to how this all works when it comes to the tools and apps you use in your own business.

We also talked about the branding and marketing, how that's evolving and our "Name the Fox" contest! Yes, we have an awesome mascot that is a fox, but she needs a name.

Here's the full conversation with Gordan (transcripts):

Kim: [00:00:25] Hey what's up everybody. Welcome to the second official conversations of Kim. This is part 2 from last week. Listen to the conversation with Gordon Orlic and I am we are talking about lead surveys and and how that all started. We're going to pick up that conversation today because we have a lot that we did not cover. Gordon what's up. Thanks for being here.

Gordan: [00:00:46] Hey thank you for having me again.

Kim: [00:00:50] Everybody after after last week I'm putting the transcripts in and realizing we talked a lot. That was a lot of words that was fun. So today we're going to go over. I think we're going to start with the direction of getting started. So for everybody who didn't listen last week I'd recommend going back and listening to how Leadsurveys came about. The idea of it. You know what we started looking at the different the different tools that we looked at but just what we wanted to do to differentiate lead surveys from other things in the market why we wanted to do this. All that good stuff. So that's all in last week's episode. So let's kind of start with the next step which would be what needs to come together in terms of the different pieces. And obviously this most of this is going to in your Gordan. But there was a lot this has been such an education for me. But all of the things that needed to come together before we could even we meaning you get into coding and I'll talk about the content and marketing and stuff so the different things that we had a look at

Kim: [00:01:58] We're obviously merchant accounts but the processing of recurring payments in this space is different than say just a membership right. So what did you need to look at Gordon to get that. And can you share where we ended up.

Gordan: [00:02:12] Yeah sure.

Gordan: [00:02:13] So in essence today it's infinitely more easier to take money from people legally obviously than it was five years ago.

Gordan: [00:02:28] You have Paypal and stripe and all of these different card processors. And just by glancing at things you would think that you can have things set up in five minutes. So just click click next next. Open an account give them your bank account number and you can start receiving payments. And that is true.

Gordan: [00:02:53] However as with anything in life if you have certain demands if you have certain things that you know that you need then all of a sudden you don't have 22 things available to you. You have maybe one or two. And even with those two you're going to have to make some compromises for us. One of the main things we decided from the get go is that we wanted to accept both paypal and credit cards.

Gordan: [00:03:25] So just by having those requirements you have cut off a lot of different possibilities. For instance a lot of companies that offer a processing of payments you Stripe. Stripe only accepts credit cards. So for us that would mean that we have to have two systems one system based on stripe to accept credit cards and another system where payment to Paypal sorry to accept paypal payments. So is that doable. Obviously it's doable but then we have two systems. Double the maintenance double the cost double the processing ...

The Story Behind LeadSurveys is my first official "Conversations with Kim" episode.

These are going to be a little different than my normal interviews (and obviously won't be solo shows). It's a more organic conversation about a topic as opposed to interviewing someone about their business.

Kim: [00:00:25] Hey what's up everybody. Welcome to the official first conversations with Kim WordPress Chick podcast episode. I don't know how I'm going to word this or or flow with it so bear with me. This is sort of a new test but this really came about specifically because of this project I'm doing and having some conversations with friends where I'm like I just want to have a little bit more organic flow to to some of the things that I want to talk about that a relative obviously to online marketing to our businesses whether it's mindset, product development, you know Course creation content whatever. So let me know what you guys think. I would love some feedback today though. We're going to do a little deep dive with something that I'm working on and today I have Gordan Orlic. Gordan you rock. Thanks for being here.

Gordan: [00:01:13] You're welcome. A pleasure to be here.

Kim: [00:01:16] All right. So for everybody listening if you've not heard this I had Gordon on the show and it was mid-year last year going into summer and it was of course summer summer summer ish. OK. So Gordon runs what factory owners say factory Ltd dotcom and they are software developers and I'm going to link to that episode. But what I want to do is we're going to fast forward. Gordon and I he had he had asked me they do a lot of white labeling of Wordpress plugins and software and had said oh do you have any ideas and I had no idea we were kind of working on playing with it and I just couldn't get super excited it was a WordPress plugin so. But Gordon has been ridiculously patient with me and I don't know Gordon. Have you seen the difference between my excitement for lead surveys and the first project.

Gordan: [00:02:04] Oh definitely. Definitely yeah. It didn't sound like a bad project. I still don't think it's a bad project but this one is better.

Kim: [00:02:14] I agree and you know it's funny because I had a couple of people that I talked to about the first project were like when is it coming in. Like well. It's on the backburner for now. So this came about because of a massive frustration and I should probably tell everybody we're talking about LeadSurveys.io. I know which is a web app. And so Gordon and I you know we stayed in touch you know about the project and then one day I was like. So what about a webapp. So before we get into lead surveys and everything that's going on behind it because this has been a massive learning curve for me and you know for everybody listening if you've ever thought about software development you're going to want to take notes or I'll put the transcripts in the post because I feel like I've got like I'm in kindergarten. Like writing to Gordon. Well what about this and how do we do this and it's kind of a rabbit hole but it's been awesome.

Kim: [00:03:12] So Gordon prior to this had you guys done webapps I'm so sorry for forgetting that but had you guys some web apps before.

Gordan: [00:03:21] We only did one. which was a what's called a semi web app because it was still basically a repressed plugin but the part of it was plucked out in order to keep the code safe. So you still needed the WordPress plugin but I'd say some of the calculations were done on a centralized server. In order for it to be hidden from you know praying eyes.So some sort of a mix between a WordPress plugin and a SaaS.

Kim: [00:03:54] Well and how many plugins?

Kim: [00:03:57] I always tell people I'm like 30 plus. And I don't know how many white label things you guys have done.

Gordan: [00:04:01] No it's its boards border lining 1000.

Kim: [00:04:05] Oh my lord.

Gordan: [00:04:07] No no it's seriously huge amou...