Your data center or solar project can clear engineering, financing, and permitting, and still get stopped by a mineral owner nobody accounted for. The mineral estate doesn't disappear because the site will hold servers or panels instead of a wellbore, and most developers don't find out until it's expensive to fix.

Micah Hinton is a land manager at TotalEnergies and president of the Austin Professional Landmen's Association. He joins Brent and Natalie to talk about how mineral rights get evaluated across data center, solar, wind and battery storage projects. They cover what a renewables report should chase, where a title commitment stops being useful, and how a set-aside turns into a drill pad with access to it.

If you're siting a data center, developing renewables, or working title, this shows you where mineral risk hides and how to get ahead of it.

Key Topics & Timestamps

00:49 - Episode Intro

04:37 - Meet Micah Hinton

07:41 - Renewables Meets Oil And Gas

14:51 - Mineral Risk For Renewable Projects

21:56 - Title Commitments And Mineral Waivers

31:42 - Educating Mineral Owners

35:19 - Creativity As A Landman Skill

40:11 - Partnering With Oil And Gas Operators

49:34 - Wrap Up And Key Takeaways

Memorable Quotes

• "You cannot take the exceptions on your title commitment as gospel. It's worthless when it comes to the minerals." — Natalie

• "We need to know who owns the minerals, and if it's leased, who owns that leasehold, 'cause that's who we need to talk to at the end of the day." — Micah

• "We're doing [a mineral ownership report] within that first year so we know what we're looking at, and is it going to kill it before we have the next payment or not?" — Micah

• "The more you can listen, the more it allows you to use your creativity and your experience and your knowledge to come to a solution. That's really the value of a landman." — Brent

  
  

  Key Takeaways

• Run a mineral ownership report before you commit real capital. Solar and data centers need it 100% of the time; wind and battery storage depend on the layout and the underwriter.

• Scope the report for what you're building. A renewables report can leave the royalty estate alone; you need the mineral owners and, where leased, the leasehold.

• Order the report in year one of the option, not the year you need financing, while walking away is still cheap.

• Tie waiver compensation to something concrete. Micah settled one by paying for a plugging job the operator already owed

  
  

  Resources

  • Austin Professional Landmen's Association (APLA): https://austinlandmen.org

  • CleanTX: https://cleantx.org

  • Need Help With A Project? Meet With Dudley: https://www.dudley-land.com/meet-with-dudley

  • Need Help with Staffing? Dudley Staffing: https://www.dudley-staffing.com/

  • Streamline Your Title Process: https://www.dudley-land.com/dudley-select-title

  • Watch On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5aLDkpG4B-iviAHrEdESg

  • Follow Dudley Land Co. on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/t-s-dudley-land-company-inc

  • Have Questions? Email: [email protected]

  
  

  More from Micah Hinton

  • TotalEnergies: https://totalenergies.com

  • Micah Hinton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/micah-hinton/

  
  

  More from Our Hosts:

  • Brent on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-broussard-177b9214/

  • Khalil on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalilbenali/

  • Natalie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliejohns-landman
    

Say “data center” to a Texas landowner right now and you'll hear about the last five years: calls every week, promises that didn't hold, and a worst-case story leading the news. That fatigue is what you're walking into, and it decides deals before the numbers do.

Drew Burke runs data center site selection for Hanwha, a South Korean conglomerate, after leaving a career at Shell. He joins Brent and Natalie to talk about what responsible development takes in Texas now: answering the water question straight, why a withdrawn Henderson County project was good news, and how roughly $50,000 a megawatt of at-risk security moved land work onto the critical path.

If you're the conduit between a landowner and a company in a hurry, this one's for you.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 01:03 - Episode Intro
• 03:01 - Get to Know Drew Burke
• 04:51 - Shell Career Across Energy
• 09:51 - Hanwha Shift to Solar and Data Centers
• 19:44 - Landowner Trust and Industry Guardrails
• 33:32 - Cost Allocation Guardrails
• 35:07 - Governor Mandate Requirements
• 37:17 - Grid Reliability Slow Ramp
• 41:04 - Texas ISO Differences
• 53:12 - Risk Sharing and Wrap Up

Memorable Quotes

1. “Development should be boring.” — Drew
2. “The numbers will make it viable, but at the end of the day, the narrative is what's gonna make it possible.” — Drew
3. “The ground game is what's important, and that relationship with the landowner is where it all begins.” — Brent
4. “I always think it's important to dignify somebody's journey.” — Drew
5. “We probably need 1,000 more Drew Burkes in this industry.” — Natalie
6. Key Takeaways
7. Trust comes before the numbers. Landowners are handing over ground with decades of story behind it, so ask about the story. People who feel understood will trust you to do right by them, even when the deal falls apart.
8. Answer the water question straight. Say what you know, say what you can't control, and commit to walking away if the water doesn't work. Hedging reads as evasion, and nothing you say after it lands.
9. A withdrawn project is the system working. The developer hit a stage gate in Henderson County, the site didn't clear, and they walked instead of pushing a bad site onto a community.
10. New financial security runs about $50,000 a megawatt, and most of it's at risk. That pushes site control, title, and surface use ahead of the interconnection agreement.
11. Show up when a county floats a moratorium. Some are a community asking for time and some are a stall. Either way, sit at the table with the commissioners and drop the technocrat language.
12. Budget real time for the narrative. Drew spent years on project valuations and still calls the narrative what makes a project possible. Clickbait travels faster than a feasibility study, so plan the community work like you plan the numbers.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.

Resources

• Need Help With A Project? Meet With Dudley
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with Dudley Staffing
• Streamline Your Title Process with Dudley Select Title
• Watch On YouTube
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On LinkedIn
• Have Questions? Email Us

More From Our Guests

• Drew Burke, Senior Director of Data Center Site Selection at Hanwha Data Centers
• Connect with Drew on LinkedIn

More from Our Hosts

• Connect with Brent on LinkedIn
• Connect with Natalie on LinkedIn
• Connect with Khalil on LinkedIn

Connect With Us

Ready to protect your land projects with integrated legal and title support? Our Dudley Select Title division works seamlessly with experienced oil and gas counsel to keep your deals on track and defensible. Contact us to learn how our complete energy partnership approach includes the legal expertise that matters when stakes are high.

Your crews are at capacity, you're turning down work, and the bench behind them is thin. You already know the answer involves bringing new people in, and you also know that handing a trainee a courthouse assignment isn't training.

Brent, Steve, and Brandon walk through what Dudley built this year: roughly 100 checkpoints a landman needs exposure to, about 20 paid mentors, and more than a dozen energy management graduates working a six-month program. They get into why day rates finally started moving, what client backing looks like inside an MSA, and why nobody in land can define responsible AI yet.

If you're growing a team without giving up the quality your clients hired you for, start here.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 00:59 - Episode Intro
• 01:29 - Summer Recap
• 04:29 - Company Midyear Update
• 07:52 - Mentor Program Pipeline
• 18:33 - Day Rates and Costs
• 23:27 - AI Disruption and Policy
• 32:58 - AI Policy Uncertainty
• 34:05 - Quality Control With AI
• 36:57 - Using Versus Building AI
• 40:42 - Annual Planning Playbook
• 50:02 - College Football

Memorable Quotes

• "I've never been in a spot where I've turned down so much work, to be honest." — Steve
• "Training someone isn't just hiring them and throwing them out there. It's being responsible." — Brent
• "If you don't have young people coming into the industry, what's gonna happen in 10, 15 years?" — Brandon
• "There's a difference between using AI and building with AI." — Khalil

Key Takeaways

1. Build the training protocol before you recruit. Dudley mapped roughly 100 checkpoints a landman needs exposure to and lined up paid mentors first, then brought trainees in. Recruiting first and sorting out development later is what gave trainees a bad name.
2. Pay your mentors. Mentoring pulls real time and attention away from billable work. Compensating mentors is what keeps a program alive past its first enthusiastic month.
3. Sell the trainee program as a partnership. Clients fund six months of lower production and come out with ten to twenty landmen dedicated to their projects. Framed that way, Steve hasn't had a client say no.
4. Day rates move when you explain the business, not the ask. Insurance, benefits, compliance, and now AI tooling all cost money. Walking clients through that math gets further than twenty years of asking for more.
5. Free AI tools are a confidentiality problem. Contractors pasting client data into consumer chatbots are breaking the same agreements they signed. Approved-tool lists and contract language are the fix, and both belong in your MSA conversations now.
6. Give every goal an owner. Annual planning holds up when each objective carries a named owner and a monthly progress update that goes out to the whole company, misses included.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.

Resources

• Kudu Suite
• American Association of Professional Landmen
• Need Help With A Project? Meet With Dudley
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with Dudley Staffing
• Streamline Your Title Process with Dudley Select Title
• Watch On YouTube
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On LinkedIn
• Have Questions? Email us

More from Our Hosts

• Connect with ⁠Brent⁠ on LinkedIn
• Connect with ⁠Khalil⁠ on LinkedIn
• Connect with Brandon on LinkedIn
• Connect with Steve on LinkedIn

Connect With Us

Ready to protect your land projects with integrated legal and title support? Our Dudley Select Title division works seamlessly with experienced oil and gas counsel to keep your deals on track and defensible. Contact us to learn how our complete energy partnership approach includes the legal expertise that matters when stakes are high.

The energy business you trained for keeps changing under your feet. Oil and gas, renewables, and now data centers used to be separate worlds. Today they're colliding into one grid, and the land professional sits right in the middle of it.

Jigar Shah, former head of the DOE Loan Programs Office, joins Brent and Natalie for a state-of-the-union on where energy actually stands in 2026. Solar and batteries are carrying the load, data centers are learning to play nice, and right-of-way fights are getting solved in ways nobody expected.

If you're working land where power, water, and infrastructure all compete for the same acres, this conversation is your map for the next five years.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 01:23 - Episode Intro
• 03:10 - Meet Jigar Shah
• 05:25 - State of the Grid
• 08:06 - Texas Battery Boom
• 16:16 - Landmen and Community
• 33:16 - Contrarians And Progress
• 34:09 - Right Of Way Resistance
• 35:14 - Solar Batteries As Incentives
• 40:06 - Microgrids And Shared Grid
• 47:24 - Rapid Fire And Wrap Up

Memorable Quotes

• "Everything starts with land." — Jigar
• "You can't just come in there and throw money at a situation. That'll only take you so far." — Brent
• "Landmen have built empires for oil and gas for a hundred and fifty years." — Natalie
• "We just need to depoliticize energy. It's all energy, it's all money, it's all cold beer, and a working coffee maker." — Jigar

Key Takeaways

1. Solar and battery storage win right now because they're the only power supply chain that isn't backordered. If you need capacity on the grid fast, that's what you can actually deploy this year.
2. Homeowners are backing into solar and batteries through their budgets, not climate politics. A near-free battery beats a $6,000 generator, and the panels follow once the inverter is already there.
3. Oil and gas, renewables, and data centers are merging into one energy industry. The landmen who can work across all three sectors are the ones getting hired.
4. Community engagement is a core land skill, not a checkbox. Show up, tell the truth, and treat people with dignity before you talk money, or the project stalls.
5. Solar and batteries are becoming the new right-of-way incentive. A $29,000 unit that zeroes a landowner's bill for 35 years beats a cash offer and sidesteps condemnation.
6. The grid is a shared resource, and the companies that tried to go it alone lost. Plan for interconnection and shared capacity instead of off-grid independence.

About Our Guest

Jigar Shah is an energy entrepreneur, investor, and strategist who served as director of the U.S. Department of Energy's Loan Programs Office from 2021 to 2025. He founded SunEdison, led the Carbon War Room, and now co-hosts the Energy Empire and Open Circuit podcasts on the energy transition.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.

Resources

• Need Help With A Project? Meet With Dudley
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with Dudley Staffing
• Streamline Your Title Process with Dudley Select Title
• Watch On YouTube
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On LinkedIn
• Have Questions? Email us

More from Our Guests

• Jigar Shah, Energy Entrepreneur, Investor, and Strategist
• Connect with Jigar on LinkedIn
• Listen to the Energy Empire podcast
• Listen to the Open Circuit podcast

More from Our Hosts

• Connect with Brent on LinkedIn
• Connect with Khalil on LinkedIn

Every royalty check starts with work most people never see. After a lease is signed and a well starts producing, someone has to review title, build the deck, and make sure every owner's decimal interest adds up to a perfect 1.0 before anyone gets paid. That someone is a division order analyst, one of the most important and least understood roles in the land business.

Rebekah Stringer, President of the Houston Association of Division Order Analysts and a division order supervisor with twelve years in the field, joins Brent and Khalil for a ground-up tour of the land back office. She walks through the full lifecycle from title review to payment, explains suspense and escheat, and gets into the people side of the job: owner relations, what stays in-house versus what gets outsourced, and how the next generation finds its way into a profession most people stumble into by accident.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 00:46 - Back Office Matters
• 02:33 - Rebekah's Career Path
• 06:46 - Inside Division Order Work
• 12:15 - Division Orders and Suspense
• 24:11 - Escheat and Finding Owners
• 31:00 - Licensing Tiers and Costs
• 32:02 - PI Tools and Ethics
• 33:57 - Outsourcing Division Order Work
• 41:45 - Clean Handoffs and Spreadsheet Reality
• 52:27 - Talent Pipeline

Memorable Quotes

• "Make it add up to 1.0." — Rebekah
• "Handling owners is a huge part of what we do." — Rebekah
• "It's not just getting people paid, it's making sure you've got everything papered up and documented properly." — Brent
• "Nobody really knows what a division order analyst is, or even that we exist." — Rebekah

Key Takeaways

• The back office is where royalty owners actually get paid. After a lease is signed and a well comes online, the division order team reviews title, builds the deck, confirms every interest adds up to 1.0, and sends out division orders so owners can go into pay.
• A clean handoff that adds up to 1.0 makes everything easier. When an in-house landman hands over a division of interest that totals exactly 1.0, the division order team can set up the well and get owners paid without untangling a title problem first.
• Owners carry the responsibility to keep their records current. Operators can't pay or update an owner they don't know about, so address changes, sales, and deaths all sit with the owner to report. That's why suspense exists and why empathetic owner relations matter so much.
• Some work has to stay in-house. Well setups, deck setups, and complex transfers carry too much downstream risk to outsource. Owner relations, pay code changes, and escheat support are safer to hand off when a team needs to flex up.
• The profession faces a talent gap, and associations are the way in. Most analysts found the field by accident, and experienced analysts are retiring with their knowledge. Groups like NADOA and HADOA offer the trainings, mentorship, and networking that bring new people in.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.⁠

Resources

• ⁠⁠⁠PBLA ⁠⁠⁠(Permian Basin Landmen's Association)
• ⁠⁠⁠Texas Tech University Energy Commerce Program⁠⁠⁠
• Need Help With A Project? ⁠⁠⁠Meet With Dudley⁠⁠⁠
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with ⁠⁠⁠Dudley Staffing⁠⁠⁠
• Streamline Your Title Process with ⁠⁠⁠Dudley Select Title⁠⁠⁠
• Watch On ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠
• Have Questions? ⁠⁠⁠Email us⁠⁠⁠

More From Our Guest

• Rebekah Stringer, President of the ⁠Houston Association of Division Order Analysts ⁠and board member of the ⁠National Association of Division Order Analysts⁠
• Connect with Rebekah on⁠ LinkedIn⁠

More from Our Hosts

• ⁠⁠⁠Brent⁠⁠⁠ on LinkedIn
• ⁠⁠Khalil ⁠⁠⁠on LinkedIn

AI gets all the headlines, but the data centers behind it don't run without fuel. Natural gas is a huge part of that story, and so is the land underneath it. Peter Snell, founder and CEO of PetroVybe, joins Brent and Khalil to explain how he's building a natural gas company designed for the AI era from the ground up.

They dig into why so much Permian gas stays trapped, why PetroVybe operates where the infrastructure already exists, and how a 10-year asset strategy gets built one acquisition at a time. Peter also breaks down how landmen can use AI as a daily planning tool, what data center developers keep getting wrong about mineral rights and right of way, and why planning for failure is part of the model. It's a practical look at where energy, technology, and land work all meet.

Key Timestamps

• 01:06 - Why Data Centers Matter
• 04:12 - PetroVybe Origin Story
• 08:02 - Permian Gas Bottlenecks
• 15:40 - Building a 10-Year Asset Base
• 20:14 - AI Limits and Landman Playbook
• 32:32 - Data Centers Land Pitfalls
• 40:42 - Ten-Year Pivots And Stewardship
• 47:01 - AI Future Trades Wrap Up

Memorable Quotes

• "AI centers don't exist without fuel, and I think that's often missed in the public eye." — Peter
• "AI's not here to take your job. AI's here to make your job easier so we can do more with you and not hire five more landmen." — Peter
• "A landman is not going anywhere." — Brent
• "Get comfortable with being uncomfortable with learning about those new things." — Peter

Key Takeaways

• AI data centers run on natural gas. The public conversation focuses on AI capabilities, but the compute can't run without fuel. Natural gas is core to powering the buildout, and that puts land and mineral work at the center of the story.
• The Permian has gas, but it's trapped. The infrastructure is built for oil, not gas, so much of the supply can't reach market profitably. PetroVybe operates in South and East Texas where the takeaway capacity actually exists.
• East Texas land is a people business. Heirship, complicated title, smaller parcels, and hundreds of mineral owners per project make East Texas a different challenge than the contract-driven Permian. That complexity is exactly where landmen add value.
• Landmen can use AI as a daily planning tool. Feed Claude or ChatGPT your local context, test it against the macro trends, and build a 30-day, 12-month, and 24-month plan. The goal is to understand the connection points, not become an expert in everything.
• Data center developers keep skipping the land work. Sites get bought without checking mineral exposure, interconnection queue status, or right of way. The deal looks easy until the dirt underneath turns into a problem.

About Our Guest

Peter Snell is the founder and CEO of PetroVybe, a natural gas development company built for the AI era. After more than a decade as a management consultant and business fixer, Peter moved into oil and gas and now leads a team focused on natural gas, long-term investor protection, and biblical stewardship.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.

Resources

• ⁠⁠PBLA ⁠⁠(Permian Basin Landmen's Association)
• ⁠⁠Texas Tech University Energy Commerce Program⁠⁠
• Need Help With A Project? ⁠⁠Meet With Dudley⁠⁠
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with ⁠⁠Dudley Staffing⁠⁠
• Streamline Your Title Process with ⁠⁠Dudley Select Title⁠⁠
• Watch On ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠
• Have Questions? ⁠⁠Email us⁠⁠

More From Our Guest

• Peter Snell, Founder & CEO of ⁠PetroVybe⁠
• Connect with ⁠Peter on LinkedIn⁠

More from Our Hosts

• ⁠⁠Brent⁠⁠ on LinkedIn
• ⁠Khalil ⁠⁠on LinkedIn

Kenneth Knott didn't set out to become a landman. His engineering plans got derailed by the 1985 downturn, a friend pulled him into petroleum land management at UL Lafayette, and an ARCO internship hooked him for life. Thirty-nine years later, he just wrapped up a career that included over 25 years at SM Energy, billions in transactions, and a leadership style that kept landmen with him for decades.

Brent sits down with Kenneth for a Legacy Series conversation on what longevity in land actually requires. They cover surviving downturns, building team cultures where servant leadership is lived, not just talked, the mentors who shaped him, what separates good landmen from great ones, and his honest take on what AI means for the next generation of land professionals.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 00:45 - Episode & Guest Intro
• 03:10 - How Kenneth Became A Landman
• 07:44 - Surviving Downturns And Longevity
• 10:25 - Leadership Culture And Team Building
• 17:13 - Big Lessons, Deals, and Mentors
• 29:31 - The Mentors Behind Kenneth Knott
• 38:19 - What Makes A Great Landman
• 49:06 - Retirement Reflections And Next Gen

Memorable Quotes

• "Our goal is not to make you one of the best landmen. Our goal is to make you one of the best oil and gas professionals." — Kenneth

Key Takeaways

• Servant leadership has to be lived, not just talked. Talking about servant values doesn't move the needle. Build the culture by aligning every hire on values, treating mistakes as lessons, and making the person next to you better every day.
• Control what you can, accept what you can't, and keep grinding. Surviving downturns in land work isn't about predicting cycles. It's about your work ethic, your willingness to do what others won't, and your focus on what's actually in your hands.
• Hire for values first, skills second. SM Energy's culture didn't happen by accident. Recruiting was deliberate about finding people who shared the values, because alignment is what lets you have hard conversations when things get rough.
• Aim to build great oil and gas professionals, not just great landmen. The best landmen understand the breadth of the business. Get curious in engineering, accounting, and marketing meetings. Over the long run, that's what separates the great from the merely competent.
• Internal networking beats external networking for deal-making. Knowing who to call inside your own company turns regular deals into great ones. The dumb question to a counterpart in another department is often the difference between a clean close and a problem nobody saw coming.
• AI is a force multiplier, but it can't replace technical foundation. The next generation of landmen has speed, curiosity, and access to tools landmen never had. The risk is taking AI output at face value without the technical baseline to QC it.

About Our Guest

Kenneth Knott is a 39-year veteran of the oil and gas land business and the recently retired Vice President of Land and Business Development at SM Energy, where he spent more than 25 years. He started his career at ARCO and Vastar before joining SM Energy (formerly St. Mary Land & Exploration), and oversaw billions in transactions, including SM's repositioning out of the Rockies and into the Permian Basin with the QStar, Rock Oil, and Laredo acquisitions. Known industry-wide as "KK," he built a reputation for cultivating long-tenured land teams through a servant-leadership culture rooted in Louisiana grit and decades of field experience.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.

Resources

• ⁠PBLA ⁠(Permian Basin Landmen's Association)
• ⁠Texas Tech University Energy Commerce Program⁠
• Need Help With A Project? ⁠Meet With Dudley⁠
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with ⁠Dudley Staffing⁠
• Streamline Your Title Process with ⁠Dudley Select Title⁠
• Watch On ⁠YouTube⁠
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On ⁠LinkedIn⁠
• Have Questions? ⁠Email us⁠

More From Our Guest

• Kenneth Knott on LinkedIn

More from Our Hosts

• ⁠Brent⁠ on LinkedIn
• Khalil ⁠on LinkedIn

Every landman is asking the same question right now: what do you actually do with AI? You've watched conference rooms argue about it, you've watched coworkers paste client emails into ChatGPT, and you still don't have a policy that tells anyone where the line is.

In this freestyle episode, Brent and Khalil unpack what's actually working in their daily AI use, why most MSAs leave the policy gap to you, and the licensing conversation that's quietly coming for the profession.

If you're trying to figure out where AI fits inside your team without losing your reputation or your bench of future landmen, this is the conversation to listen to.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 01:04 - Freestyle AI Reality Check
• 02:45 - Midland Takeaways and AI Questions
• 04:29 - AI Policies and Email Pitfalls
• 12:32 - Agentic AI and the Landman Future
• 24:58 - Campus Pulse at Texas Tech
• 30:33 - Dudley AI Roadmap Q2-Q4
• 35:11 - Focus Discipline, and Wrap

Memorable Quotes

• "If you're not actively giving guidance and training and tools and resources and policies, it is the Wild West." — Brent
• "It is a tool 100%, but the way that you treat it is not like you treat a tool. It's more of an employee." — Khalil
• "You have to be deliberate about your development of your talent." — Brent
• "When AI starts executing for you, you're not hitting keystrokes as much. You have to start focusing on your judgment. That's gonna be the most important thing." — Khalil
• "Start with a little snowball. Make a snowman." — Brent

Key Takeaways

• AI policies aren't optional. Without a red, yellow, and green framework (plus a gray zone for the in-between), teams default to the Wild West and confidential data ends up in tools no one's tracking.
• Treat AI like an employee, more than a tool. You wouldn't hand a new hire client emails on day one. The same caution applies before you paste client work into ChatGPT.
• The next two years force a hard call on agentic work. Companies have to decide what an agent can do, what a licensed landman signs off on, and how to verify the work behind the disclaimer.
• Entry-level work is what builds 10 and 20 year landmen. If agents take that work, the bench disappears, so companies need deliberate paths to get juniors real field experience.
• Pick one problem and ship it. Half-baked tools across six departments is how teams end up with a mess. Focus on one workflow, finish it, then expand.
• Quarterly cadence works for AI rollout. Start with education and discovery, identify your early adopters, give them room to build on real workflows, then push the polished tool company-wide.

Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.

Resources

• PBLA (Permian Basin Landmen's Association)
• Texas Tech University Energy Commerce Program
• Need Help With A Project? Meet With Dudley
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with Dudley Staffing
• Streamline Your Title Process with Dudley Select Title
• Watch On YouTube
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On LinkedIn
• Have Questions? Email us

More from Our Hosts

• Connect with Brent on LinkedIn
• Connect with Khalil on LinkedIn

Connect With Us

Ready to protect your land projects with integrated legal and title support? Our Dudley Select Title division works seamlessly with experienced oil and gas counsel to keep your deals on track and defensible. Contact us to learn how our complete energy partnership approach includes the legal expertise that matters when stakes are high.

The energy and infrastructure landscape is shifting faster than most land professionals can track. Lithium prices crashed 85% in two years, yet leasing activity stayed strong. The Smackover Formation emerged as a world-class brine source. Data centers from the East Coast are flooding into Texas, unfamiliar with mineral estates and the landmen who navigate them. Regulatory frameworks are still catching up, leaving operators navigating unprecedented territory.

Reagan Marble, partner at Jackson Walker and a go-to counsel for lithium transactions, joins Brent and Khalil to break down what's actually happening in the market, where the real challenges sit, and what the next wave of land work looks like for professionals willing to adapt.

Key Timestamps

• 01:01 - Reagan Marble is Back!
• 04:19 - Lithium Market Update
• 10:07 - Regulatory And Permitting Hurdles
• 18:18 - Consolidation And Lease Cleanup
• 23:28 - Potash And Bromine Upside
• 28:16 - Permian Produced Water Lithium
• 30:52 - Dual Resource Oil And Lithium
• 32:17 - Landman Skills Evolving Fast
• 35:46 - Data Centers Enter The Chat
• 38:30 - Minerals Water And Site Due Diligence
• 44:11 - Power Crunch And Regulatory Battles
• 53:17 - Five Year Outlook And Wrap Up

Memorable Quotes

• "As an oil and gas lawyer and as a landman, we are in the people business and that part of the business will never be replaced, ever." — Reagan

• "Half of our business at Dudley Land Company didn't exist 10 years ago." — Brent

• "The next five years in lithium development is gonna make the first five or six years since 2020 look like we were moving at a snail's pace." — Reagan

• "The regulatory framework is gonna be pretty tough. Someone's gonna have to be the first one to go permit it and, good luck to whoever it is. Hopefully it's not me." — Reagan

Key Takeaways

1. Lithium market has shifted from land grab to consolidation. Prices compressed, but strong leasing activity persists. Operators who signed deals at peak bonus levels now face renegotiation pressure.
2. Smackover Formation is world-class brine. Lithium concentrations near 800 mg/L compete with South America's best deposits and justify the Texas land rush.
3. Brine production permitting is the next frontier. The Railroad Commission published rules, but no one has successfully permitted a brine production well yet. Primacy over Class 5 disposal wells remains with EPA, creating a regulatory chicken-and-egg problem.
4. Data centers are the new oil and gas. East Coast PE and family offices are competing for Texas land and water, largely unfamiliar with mineral rights and the professionals who manage them. Water procurement and power availability are the real constraints.
5. Landman skillset is expanding rapidly. Modern land professionals now work across oil and gas, renewables, lithium, CCS, and data centers. Human relationships remain irreplaceable by technology.

About Our Guest

Reagan Marble is a partner at Jackson Walker in Fort Worth and a leading voice in energy transactions across oil and gas, lithium, and emerging infrastructure. His practice spans deal structuring, regulatory strategy, and the convergence of traditional energy and new resource development in Texas.

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More from Reagan Marble

• Reagan Marble, Partner at Jackson Walker LLP
• Connect with Reagan on LinkedIn

More from Our Hosts

• Connect with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Brent⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on LinkedIn

• Connect with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Khalil⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on LinkedIn

Energy attorney Ben Holliday breaks down how the oil and gas industry evolved from traditional pooling to today's allocation wells, tackling the complex challenge of drilling long laterals across multiple existing units.

From the first Devon allocation well breakthrough to New Mexico's compulsory pooling framework, discover the practical solutions land professionals use to maximize development while navigating regulatory hurdles.

What You’ll Learn

• How allocation wells solved the multi-unit drilling problem without legislative changes
• Key differences between Texas allocation wells and New Mexico compulsory pooling
• Why production sharing agreements fell out of favor despite regulatory support
• How to navigate lease restrictions on allocation well development
• The evolution from 640-acre units to multi-section horizontal development

Time Stamps

• 00:45 - Episode & Guest Intro
• 02:38 - Ben's Career Journey
• 03:58 - Early Experiences in the Oil and Gas Industry
• 10:29 - Pooling and Unitization Basics
• 13:48 - Evolution of Allocation Wells
• 15:52 - Challenges and Legal Aspects
• 23:10 - Production Sharing Agreements
• 26:19 - Current Practices and Industry Impact
• 33:15 - Understanding Lateral Take Points
• 33:42 - Complexities of Unit Allocation
• 34:43 - Impact of AI on Landmen and Attorneys
• 36:52 - Lease Analysis for Allocation Wells
• 38:16 - Mineral Owners' Concerns
• 41:52 - Retained Acreage Clauses and Allocation Wells
• 47:06 - New Mexico's Compulsory Pooling System
• 58:24 - Contested Hearings and Operator Disputes
• 01:02:09 - Conclusion and Resources

Snippets from the Episode

• "I learned from Mr. Arrington that in the context of a lease negotiation, 'no' means not right now, and you haven't paid me enough." - Ben Holliday
• "The general stance of Texas is to encourage development. We don't want to be restraining development, we want resources to be developed." - Ben Holliday
• “The story of multi-tract development is really a story of industry and the legal side of the house trying to keep pace with each other and what you can do.” - Ben Holliday

Key Takeaways

1. Technology Drove Legal Innovation
2. Rule 37 Exceptions Opened Allocation Well Possibilities
3. PSAs Required Too Much Stakeholder Coordination
4. Productive Lateral Formula Became Industry Standard
5. Lease Language Analysis Critical for Allocation Wells
6. New Mexico's Compulsory System Protects State Revenue
7. Both State Approaches Effectively Maximize Resource Development

⁠⁠Help us improve our podcast! Share your thoughts in our quick survey.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Resources

• Need Help With A Project? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meet With Dudley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Need Help with Staffing? Connect with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dudley Staffing ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Streamline Your Title Process with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dudley Select Title⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Watch On ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Follow Dudley Land Co. On ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Subscribe To Our Newsletter, The Land Dept. Monthly
• Have Questions? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email us⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

More from Ben Holliday

• Attorney and President - Holliday Energy Law Group
• Connect with Ben on LinkedIn

More from Our Hosts

• Connect with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Brent⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on LinkedIn

• Connect with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Khalil⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on LinkedIn

Connect With Us

Ready to protect your land projects with integrated legal and title support? Our Dudley Select Title division works seamlessly with experienced oil and gas counsel to keep your deals on track and defensible. Contact us to learn how our complete energy partnership approach includes the legal expertise that matters when stakes are high.