In this powerful season finale, Matt sits down with the legendary religion news reporter and author Bob Smietana to explore the pressing realities facing churches today. From demographic shifts to the challenges of revitalization, Bob shares insights from his acclaimed book, Reorganized Religion, and personal experiences with church closures. This episode is packed with heartfelt stories, actionable insights, and a message of hope for communities navigating change.

Key Topics Covered:

Highlights You Won’t Want to Miss:

3 Key Takeaways:

1. churches are closing mainly due to changes in demographics and society.  What worked to grow churches in prior decades no longer works, and it is often difficult for churches with older buildings to adapt to a new environment.

2. It's better when a church's building, property, and assets stay connected to the mission when transferring ownership.

3. Bob reports on and has written about many churches that have closed.  When he and his wife experienced a closing with the congregation they cared about, they experienced a sense of loss and grief.  But they also felt sent forth by a community that helped shape their lives.  Maybe a church can still be about sending long after it has stopped being able to bring people into a building.

Resources Mentioned:

Share this episode with friends and fellow churchgoers to spark meaningful conversations about the future of faith communities.

In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt dives into a conversation with Reverend Dr. Katie Nix and Reverend Dr. Phil Blackwell, pastors who led two congregations through a unique journey of merger and renewal. They share the incredible challenges and blessings of bringing together two legacy churches into a unified, mission-focused community. This merger took place amidst the complexities of the pandemic, highlighting the resilience, adaptability, and faith that fueled their journey.

Dr. Nix and Dr. Blackwell explore what they learned in this process, from honoring each congregation's history to forging a shared vision for the future. They discuss practical insights into measuring success beyond traditional metrics, fostering a welcoming environment, and asking questions that prompt creative, forward-thinking ministry. Their story offers inspiring takeaways for church leaders, members, and anyone invested in the future of faith communities.

Embrace Legacy with Purpose – The success of University and Grace UMC's merger hinged on respecting the legacies of each congregation while building a unified identity that serves both past and future communities.

Measure Success Beyond Numbers – Traditional metrics like attendance are important but don't paint the whole picture; focus also on creating spaces for spiritual growth, and meaningful community impact.

Ask Courageous Questions for Renewal – Continuously revisit your church's mission and ask, "What is God calling us to do next?" Embracing imagination and openness can reveal new paths for ministry and outreach.

Listen to The Doctors are In and the story of Grace UMC's merger with University UMC here:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-doctors-are-in/id1706168185

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kathryn-nix/episodes/The-Doctors-Are-In--S3-E2-A-Pastors-Perspective-on-Our-Church-Merger-e2q3mt6

In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, we dive into the profound journey of pastoral transitions with Matt Davis, host of the Life After Ministry Podcast. Matt shares his personal experiences of stepping away from ministry after a moral failure and navigating life outside the church. This episode explores the emotional and logistical challenges pastors face when leaving a church and provides guidance on managing these transitions with grace and support. Davis's story is a testament to resilience and purpose, reminding us that even in difficult seasons, there is potential for growth and reorientation.

Key Takeaways:

• Creating Compassionate Exits – Matt emphasizes that churches must prioritize compassion and dignity during pastoral exits, advocating for "kingdom outplacement." By offering structured support like coaching, counseling, and resume assistance, churches can model Christ-like love and compassion in difficult seasons.

Provide Financial and Emotional Support – Financial insecurity frequently accompanies pastoral exits, leaving pastors in challenging positions when they are let go or the church closes. Be generous with severance and communicate with compassion. 

The value of third party help - Difficult transitions for pastors or congregations at the end of their life can benefit from third party wisdom and guidance.  Bringing in a third party, like Pastoral Transitions, demonstrates a commitment to all people involved and a determination to end well.

• The spiritual struggle pastors face in redefining their sense of calling

www.pastoraltransitions.com

Life After Ministry Podcast

In this powerful episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt continues his conversation with Reverend Lorrin Radzik as they explore the complexities of church closures. Lorrin shares her personal journey of closing multiple churches and the unique challenges faced when congregations are forced to confront their own mortality. Together, they dive into how pastors can lead through difficult decisions, the role of a daycare ministry, and the emotional toll of these transitions. Yet amidst the grief, Lorrin uncovers the hopeful message of resurrection within the church’s final days.

Listeners will be inspired by the candid discussion of what it means to lead faithfully, even when the end is near, and how to embrace new beginnings in unexpected places.

Key Takeaways:

1. Resurrection Beyond Closure: Lorrin explains that even when churches close, their ministry can live on through community connections, spiritual legacies, and even new congregations inhabiting former spaces.

In this raw and insightful episode, Matt sits down with Rev. Lorrin Radzik, a United Methodist pastor with a powerful story of navigating the complexities of ministry, church closure, and personal growth. Lorrin shares her experience leading a struggling congregation in Wisconsin, where she guided the church through the challenging decision to close after decades of decline. Her journey, filled with difficult conversations, resilience, and ultimate closure, offers deep insights into the reality of pastoral leadership and church vitality.

Key Takeaways:

The Impact on Pastors

Leading with Transparency and Courage

Closure as a Faithful Decision

Resources:

http://www.revlorrinradzik.com/

https://www.goodfridaycollaborative.com/

https://nationalhmongcaucusumc.weebly.com/

In this compelling episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt interviews Dave Meserve, an experienced transitional pastor who has guided multiple churches through the difficult process of closing. Dave shares powerful stories and invaluable insights on how to approach church closures with compassion, wisdom, and a focus on spiritual health.

Key Points:

• Dave's unique journey from traditional ministry to becoming a "pastor at large" and transitional leader

Quotes: "Don't leave before the benediction - there's a blessing if you stay to the end." - Dave Meserve "Churches have lifespans. They have beginnings, long middles we hope, and ends." - Dave Meserve

Keywords: church closure, transitional pastor, faith ceiling, non-denominational churches, church leadership, pastoral care, church ceremonies, spiritual health, church size dynamics, diverse leadership, church lifespan

This episode offers essential guidance for church leaders, pastors, and congregants facing potential church closures or significant transitions. Dave Meserve's experiences provide a roadmap for approaching these challenging situations with grace, intentionality, and a focus on long-term spiritual wellbeing.

In this episode, host Matt interviews Gail Cafferata, author of "The Last Pastor" and a retired Episcopal priest who closed a church. Gail shares her personal experience closing a congregation and insights from her research surveying over 100 pastors who have gone through church closures.

Key topics discussed:

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Closing a church takes a significant emotional and career toll on pastors, with many experiencing stress, isolation, and difficulty finding new positions afterward.

2. "Differentiation" - maintaining healthy boundaries between oneself and the congregation - is crucial for pastors leading churches through closure.

3. A "good death" for a church involves celebrating its legacy, providing pastoral care, and empowering members to continue ministry elsewhere.

This episode provides valuable insights for pastors, church leaders, and anyone interested in the challenges facing declining congregations in America today.

In this episode, we sit down with Mike Sares, director of Urban Skye, to discuss their unique approach to ministry outside traditional church structures. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience, including pastoring Scum of the Earth Church and working with various faith entrepreneurs.

Key points covered:

• Urban Skye acts as an umbrella organization for freelance pastors, providing administrative support and spiritual community

Mike provides a refreshing perspective on doing ministry in today's cultural landscape, emphasizing authenticity, humility, and a willingness to color outside the lines of traditional church structures. His insights are valuable for pastors, church leaders, and anyone interested in innovative approaches to faith and community.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Effective ministry often happens outside church walls, meeting people where they are culturally and spiritually.

Resources:

https://www.urbanskye.org/

https://www.mikesares.com/

Pure Scum by Mike Sares

https://scumoftheearth.net/

https://www.fiveironfrenzy.com/

In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt interviews Bart McDonald from the Southern Baptist of Texas Foundation about their innovative Jubilee Program. This program helps struggling churches preserve their assets and legacy while transitioning to new ministries or congregations.

Key Points:

• The Jubilee Program is based on biblical principles from Leviticus and Deuteronomy

Quotes: "We don't want to hold a Jubilee property in our possession any longer than it takes to get it back into the hands of the local New Testament church." - Bart McDonald

"If God's people will get together and prayerfully seek the face of God, it's been my experience that God's people will almost always do the right thing." - Bart McDonald

Key Takeaways:

1. The Jubilee program applies real estate principles in a non-profit framework to give dying churches better options.

Call-to-Action: If you've been part of a church closing or merger, share your story by emailing [email protected]

Related Topics: Church revitalization, Church planting, Baptist churches, Church property management, Legacy giving

In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt McGee interviews Dr. Myles Werntz, Associate Professor of Theology at Abilene Christian University. They discuss the concept of scarcity in churches and how it's affecting congregations across denominations. Dr. Werntz shares insights from his recent Christianity Today article "Scarcity's Strange Gifts" and explores the challenges and opportunities presented by resource constraints in modern church settings.

Key topics covered:

• The psychological effects of scarcity on decision-making

Three Key Takeaways:

1. Scarcity is becoming a widespread issue for churches across denominations, affecting resources, attendance, and staffing. This trend is likely to continue and requires new approaches to ministry.

Keywords: church scarcity, declining resources, ministry challenges, church leadership, bi-vocational ministry, church attendance trends, Christian ethics, theology, church growth

Resources:

Scarcity's Strange Gifts by Myles Werntz

Myles Werntz's Substack

Howard Thurman