The Legal Ops Podcast

Dee Venello is a senior operations professional at Commvault. She has implemented contracting systems and other legal technology in multiple organizations, carefully managing diverse stakeholders with a variety of interests and workflows. She also has experience in general business operations, providing her with insight into the issues and concerns faced by teams that the legal department supports.

A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode and for recommending Dee as a guest of the show. We discussed with Dee why LinkSquares was selected by two of her employers as the primary contracting solution for the organization.

We also discussed a range of related issues, including:

* The importance of CLM in general

* Why change management is vital in any technology implementation

* The value of cross-functional understanding and partnerships

* How CLM liberates data, and what to do with it

* Driving continuous improvement and "planning to plan"

LINKS

LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com

Dee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dee-venello-74090a40/

Alex and Elliot chat about:

* how to craft an organizational AI policy

* a recent tribunal decision requiring Air Canada to honor a refund policy invented by its online chatbot

* recent articles on AI's impact on law firm billing and a potential shift towards value-based pricing

* another recent article on the need to balance AI's precision with human insight in the practice of law

A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode! Check out their website at: https://linksquares.com/

LINKS

Air Canada decision: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/02/air-canada-must-honor-refund-policy-invented-by-airlines-chatbot/

AI impact on billing - article 1: https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/ai-could-transform-law-firm-billing-beyond-recognition

AI impact on billing - article 2: https://www.legaldive.com/news/ai-use-cases-legal-ops-deloitte-blickstein-group-report/702436/

Balancing AI and human strengths in legal practice: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2024/02/12/the-future-of-tech-enabled-law-practice-balancing-ais-precision-with-human-insight/

At the start of 2024 Jenn McCarron became President of the Board of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC), succeeding Mike Haven. We invited Jenn back on to the show to discuss:

* the process of becoming President

* the factors she considered in weighing up the role

* CLOC's role in the legal ops community, and how it has developed over time

* what changes we can expect in the future under Jenn's leadership

* the extent to which Jenn's background in entertainment will be relevant to her role

We also continued our tradition of beginning the year with predictions, and we invited Jenn to join us in making some of her own and assessing ours. These are some of the topics we discussed:

* legal ops as a partner to the business, not just the legal team

* continued growth in the importance of data and analytics

* focus on enterprise technology rather than legal point solutions

* future use cases for artificial intelligence

* the importance of managing AI risks

LINKS

Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmccarron

Jenn’s phone screen (discussed at 30 minutes and 40 seconds into the recording): http://tinyurl.com/5hem49yp

Alex and Elliot discuss:

* The recent leadership challenges at OpenAI and what, if anything, it means for the pace of AI development and adoption

* A review of podcast episodes during 2023, their favourites and why

* Musings on expectations for 2024

* Elliot's continuing work on the "AI for legal teams" training course, which will be published in early 2024 under the Legal Ops Institute brand

This is our last episode for 2023. A big thanks for listening to the show - we'll be back in late January or early February 2024.

LINKS

Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

Noah Waisberg is the co-founder and CEO of Zuva.ai and the former co-founder and CEO of Kira Systems. He has worked for more than a decade on artificial intelligence and its application in the legal industry, beginning his work long before anyone had heard of Transformers and GPT.

He is also the author of two books on artificial intelligence: "AI for Lawyers" which, as the title suggests, is focused on AI and its use by lawyers; and "Robbie the Robot Learns to Read", likely the first children's book aiming to teach younger readers about machine learning concepts.

Naturally, with Noah we discussed many issues related to artificial intelligence, including:

* What it was like selling AI systems to lawyers in the early 2010s

* How AI adds value in the legal industry

* The ability of AI to capture, distribute and amplify legal expertise

* Jevons paradox and how it relates to AI in the legal industry

* The role of generative AI in contract review and other legal use cases

* The extent to which generative AI levels the legal tech playing field

LINKS

Noah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahwaisberg

Noah on X: https://twitter.com/nwaisb

"AI for lawyers" book: https://tinyurl.com/mx4t5nh6

"Robbie the Robot Learns to Read" book: https://tinyurl.com/3c9pjf6r

Alex and Elliot discuss:

* A recent article looking at the effects of AI on productivity and quality of work by consultants at the Boston Consulting Group

* A study by an English law firm finding poor legal advice provided by various Large Language Models, including GPT and Bard

* A recent article discussing whether or not generative AI will be a source of competitive advantage for law firms

* Elliot's anguish, and enjoyment, producing material for the upcoming "AI for legal teams" training course, which will soon be the first course published by the Legal Ops Institute

A big thanks to our friends at LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode. For more information, check out their website: https://linksquares.com/

LINKS

Article on AI used by BCG consultants: https://www.mi-3.com.au/20-09-2023/harvard-business-school-study-bcg-finds-knowledge-workers-using-chat-gpt-outperform

Law firm research paper on AI providing legal advice: https://lpscdn.linklaters.com/-/media/files/document-store/pdf/uk/2023/october/report_linksai-english-law-benchmark_october-2023.ashx?rev=fc8c65ae-00f6-408e-9aec-4bf7846f82db&extension=pdf

Article on generative AI and law firm competitive advantage: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/10/30/for-law-firms-will-generative-ai-really-be-a-major-competitive-differentiator/

Legal Ops Institute sneak peak: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Tim Parilla and Ashlyn Donohue from LinkSquares. LinkSquares helps organizations streamline contract management and drive efficiencies for contract-related workflows with an all-in-one CLM and legal project management platform.

In addition to learning about the LinksSquares product, we discuss a range of important issues including how to get buy in for a CLM implementation, which parts of an organization are the main beneficiaries of a CLM system and why data is so valuable to legal teams.

LINKS

LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com/

Tim Parilla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-parilla-64a4b36/

Ashlyn Donohue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-donohue-098aa31b

Cockpit Counsel podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/456zmn84

Cockpit Counsel podcast on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/27em7e4p

Microsoft is one of the most innovative and widely recognised companies in the world. How does an organisation with this level of scale and success think about legal operations? What are its strategic initiatives and thought leadership that the legal ops community can learn from? To what extent is its legal department leveraging AI and other cutting edge tools to drive efficiencies and optimization?

These are among the topics we discussed with Lydia Petrakis and Tom Orrison. Lydia is a Senior Corporate Counsel and Digital Strategist focused on issues of strategy, innovation and planning as they affect the legal team. Tom is a Senior Director of Legal Operations focused on contracting, procurement, productivity solutions and support services. Both work in Microsoft's Corporate, External and Legal Affairs (CELA) department, one of the largest of its kind in the world.

Other topics we discussed with Lydia and Tom include:

* How the legal team is leveraging AI

* The vital importance of data

* The importance of understanding, and documenting, process

* How to prepare lawyers and legal teams for change

* How automation is adopted differently across three major work types: transact, comply and advise

LINKS

Lydia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lydiapetrakis/

Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-orrison-873ba04/

Alex and Elliot discuss:

* A recent article by Ironclad's CEO arguing that AI is entering its "Napster phase"

* ChatGPT now having access to current information via the internet

* Recent trips to Japan, observations on intake systems in daily Japanese life and its implications for legal workflows

* Elliot's new MacBook Air and Alex's ruminations on various Apple products

LINKS

Article on AI entering its Napster phase: https://www.fastcompany.com/90942310/ai-napster-who-going-to-own-it-next

ChatGPT can now access the internet: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chatgpt-can-finally-access-the-internet-in-real-time-but-theres-a-catch/

Justin Hectus is a co-founder and Chief Information Officer at Keesal Propulsion Labs, a consultancy focused on technology and automation of legal processes.

With Justin we discussed many aspects of building and delivering technology for legal teams, including:

* How to ensure your team stays focused on the core mission and goals

* The importance of knowing and understanding your end customer

* Shipping early and iterating fast

* The future of custom built legal solutions

* How to build and retain a team of star players

* Developing and cross-training talent through music, art and side hustles

LINKS

Justin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinhectus