The Life After Leaving Podcast: An Ex-Christadelphian Podcast

Today we’re flipping the script and Heather is chatting with Zinnia! Zinnia shares her story of growing up as an undiagnosed neurodivergent child and being bullied during her childhood inside and outside of the ecclesia. The first half of this episode is a bit heavy as Zinnia discusses how her environment contributed to severe depression and how growing up in a high control environment among other factors may have groomed her for domestic violence in her relationships. However, things took a turn for the better when Zinnia chose to leave the group, shut down their harassment, reported perpetrators to the police. She also reclaimed her life and her voice by changing her name, moving out on her own, creating a new environment where she could thrive in secular friendships and relationships, and connecting with other ex-Christadelphians in the Facebook community. She also shares her story of living in a haunted apartment, explains why she is skeptical of Christadelphians claiming that they’ll report the criminal activity of other Christadelphians, and about the circumstances that led her to create this podcast. 

This episode was also released alongside Episode 13 on Spiritualism due to some overlapping themes and topics. We hope you enjoy this podcast double feature! See you in 2025!

Thank you to Heather for editing this episode!

Listener Discretion Advised. TW: sexual assault, abuse, neglect, domestic violence, eating disorders, self-harm, bullying, depression, profanity

Resources:

Vibe Music: 

If I die young Pt 2 by Kimberly Perry

And

The Wolves by Madeline Edwards

On Leaving Cults & High Control Groups:

Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich

Unfollow: A Memoir of Loving and Leaving the Westboro Baptist Church by Megan Phelps-Roper

The Sound of Gravel: A Memoir by Ruth Wariner

Educated by Tara Westover

Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Women and How I Broke Free by Linda Kay Klein

Chocolat by Joanne Harris (Okay, this one is more of a role model for living outside religious influence, not bending to that pressure, and embracing the more magical side of life)

Quarter Life Crisis Netflix special, Taylor Tomlinson 

The Holy Bible: The Best Damned Version by Steve Ebling 

Instagram: religious.harm.recovery 

On Sexual Assault:

Know My Name by Chanel Miller

On Childhood Trauma & Relationships:

Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson (And Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents)

Running on Empty: Overcome your Childhood Emotional Neglect by Jonice Webb (Sequel: Running on Empty No More)

The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson

Healing Your Aloneness: Finding Love and Wholeness Through Your Inner Child by Erika Chopich and Margaret Paul

Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller

The Emotionally Absent Mother: A Guide to Self-Healing and Getting the Love You Missed by Jasmin Lee Cori 

Mothers Who Can’t Love: A Healing Guide for Daughters by Susan Forward

When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate

On Embracing Neurodivergence, Masking, and Susceptibility to Abuse:

Hayley Honeyman Ted Talk “Unmasking ADHD”

On the impact of growing up undiagnosed Neurodivergent:

Neurodivergent Article

And 

Other Neurodivergent Article

Feminism & Politics: 

Rage becomes her: The Power of Women's Anger by Soraya Chemaly

On Healing through Humor

On the Paranormal:

Life with the Afterlife: 13 Truths I Learned About Ghosts by Amy Bruni 

Do Dead People Watch You Shower? By Concetta Bertoldi

“Ecclesia Safe” Initiative:

Tidings Article

Ecclesia Safe Website

Tidings Article on the Creation of Ecclesia Safe

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Today we’re chatting about ghosts! More specifically, about how the Christadelphians have historically tried to disprove the existence of ghosts and the beliefs of Spiritualists to their followers! It’s time for science class with John Thomas as he explains the (now considered pseudoscience) "science" of odology, explains how Jesus Christ (electric medium) used hypnosis on his disciples, speculates on whether followers will be able to be invisible and teleport when they’re resurrected (sorry, you can only hold eyeballs), and how God’s Holy Spirit is actually… electricity. We discover the story of a Christadelphian with psychic abilities and end the episode with the most legendary ghost story to ever be told in Christadelphia! It’s going to get spoooooooky!

This episode was also released alongside Episode 14, Fellowship with Zinnia, due to some overlapping themes and topics. We hope you enjoy this podcast double feature! See you in 2025!

Resources and References 

“Other Powers: The Age of Suffrage, Spiritualism, and the Scandalous Victoria Woodhull” by Barbara Goldsmith, Page 78

Some background information on Spiritualism in the Britannica:

Dr. Thomas: His Life and His Work by Robert Roberts

Popular Figures who were Spiritualists

The First Woman to Run for President in the US, Victoria Woodhull

Talking to the Dead: Kate and Maggie Fox and the Rise of Spiritualism by Barbara Weisberg

The Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith

The Oprah Winfrey Show

July 1852 edition of the “Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come” by John Thomas

2023 Pew Research data

2024 Article on Americans belief in ghosts

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Psychics

Harry Houdini’s crusade to expose medium and spiritualism

The Ambassador of the Coming Age  (later known as The Christadelphian Magazine)

July 1868, August 1868 and September 1868 editions

The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come Magazine by John Thomas, July and August 1852

Age-Gap paranormal romance:

A Demon’s Guide to Wooing a Witch by Sarah Hawley

Twilight by Stephenie Meyer

The Princess Bride Movie, 1987

“Good night, Westley. Good work. Sleep well. I’ll most likely kill you in the morning”

Prosopagnosia, medical condition

Jim Jones Healings 1

Jim Jones Healings 2

Rapidash Pokemon

The Bible:

1 Kings 19

2 Corinthians 12

Habakkuk 2:2-3

Joel 2:28

Job 33 

Acts 10

Revelation 1

Matthew 22

1 Samuel 28

Odology

Louis Cahagnet’s “Celestial Telegraph, or Secrets of the Life to Come revealed through Magnestism” 

Robert Roberts: A Study of Life And Character 

The Christadelphian Magazine/ The Ambassador of the Coming Age Magazine: 

April 1869

February 1895

February 1888

May 1887

June 1876

January 1877

May 1955

November 1919

August 1913

November 1926

National Spiritualists’ Association of Churches Bookstore

The Girl with Silver Eyes by Willo Davis Roberts

The Wizard of Oz (movie), 1939

Spiritualism by Michael Ashton

Read Online at: This is Your Bible

John Thomas’ Ghost:

The Christadelphian Magazine, November 1871

The Christadelphian Magazine, January 1872

Medium and Daybreak, November 24 1871 edition

Full article provided by request from the University of Oxford Bodleian Library and from the Hamilton College. Thank you to the archivists and librarians who assisted in this request!

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Lily Dale: The True Story of the Town That Talks to the Dead by Christine Wicker

Life with the Afterlife: 13 Truths I learned about Ghosts by Amy Bruni

Other Resources not mentioned:

If you want to learn more about Spiritualism, check out the Dig Podcast:

Other mentions of Spiritualism and Ouija Boards in The Christadelphian Magazine:

March 1939

March 1920

Spiritualist website hosts John Thomas’s writings on Odology

John Thomas’ book on Odoloy: Odology: An Antidote to Spiritualism, being an Analysis of the Claims of Spirit Rapping

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Today we’re chatting with Paul! In this episode, Paul shares his story of joining the Christadelphians with his parents as a young convert, to stirring up trouble in the capital city as a young man handing out pamphlets on the Holy Spirit, to eventually not only leaving the Christadelphians, but eventually becoming an atheist studying theology! Paul also shares his controversial experience giving his one and only public lecture as a Christadelphian, his time as part of a group of Christadelphians nicknamed “the four horsemen of the apocalypse”, and about his thesis project on the roots of Christianity which he started after going back to school *again*. There’s no box big enough to fit Paul into as he’s explored careers, countries, and theology throughout his lifetime. I hope you enjoy this episode and hearing about the twists and turns of his fascinating life!  

If you’re interested in coming on the podcast or have comments or questions, you can contact Zinnia at [email protected]

Resources and References

Harry Whittaker, Author

Carl Sagan; astronomer, scientist, author, and science educator

Richard Dawkins; biologist, author, prominent atheist

Paul’s website, “Religion Free World”

A link to Paul’s Book “On Christian Origins”

Today we’re chatting with Luke! Luke shares his experience growing up in a small, insular ecclesia disconnected from the wider community of Christadelphians and singing the same hymns every week. In this episode, we’ll hear about his process of trying to fit into the wider Christadelphian world after growing up in isolation, about his first experience attending an ecclesia that drank Christ’s blood from a shared cup (ew), and on the pressure to leave his new ecclesia and to end his relationship with a non-Christadelphian. We also speculate on his prospects of an American speaking tour, argue for Australia to have its own major winter holiday, and wonder if Christadelphian music will ever be a topic for a pub trivia night at last!? And remember… watch out because the “Christadelphian Police” can be anywhere!

Please join us for yet another fun episode of fellowship among the heathens!  

Listener discretion is advised. 

If you’re interested in coming on the podcast or have comments or questions, you can contact Zinnia at [email protected]

Resources and References:

Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (Movie)

Today we’re chatting with Mako in this “mini-episode” on beards and their cultural history within Christadelphia. Mako and Zinnia discuss the experiences shared by some ex-Christadelphians about beards and compare it to the historical views of Christadelphians during the time of Doctor John Thomas and Robert Roberts. We also joke about drag names, the British slang for penis, and moustaches on firemen! Please join us for a chat about this hairy topic!

As a friendly reminder, please be advised that the humor in today’s episode is pretty “worldly” and this podcast is marked “explicit” across platforms. Listener discretion is advised. 

Resources and References: 

Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life

Dictionary entry for “John Thomas”

The Bible, 2 Samuel 10

The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas, May 1856, Page 113 “The Gentile and the Jew”

The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas,  March 1852, Page 62 (782 if using this link)

Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas December 1851 Page 280-281(Page 626 if using this link)

The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come, May 1853, page 119 by John Thomas reprinting “Why Israelites were Forbidden to Shave” from the “Journal of Sacred Literature pp. 65, 66” 

My Days and My Ways by Robert Roberts, page 5, 67, 139

“Robert Roberts: A Study of the Life and Character” by Islip Collyer

Drag Name Inspo and the name “Lourdes Prayer”

On my comments on Leviticus:

https://www.jpost.com/jerusalem-report/article-700876

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/africa/03iht-moses.4.5130043.html

On some religions using beards as a statement: 

https://dralun.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/the-medical-case-for-beards-in-the-19th-century/

https://credomag.com/2016/07/they-will-know-we-are-calvinists-by-our-beards-timothy-raymond/

The Christadelphian July 1871 (July edition starting page 199, quote on page 219)

On the Victorians using hair from the dead for mementos

Misc Research into Beards

Today we’re chatting with Mike! Mike shares his story of growing up in the Brotherhood with many surprises including sourcing bootleg copies of the Simpsons for the Christadelphian youth group, finding a wife at the Christadelphian nursing home, and about his path to eventually becoming “unequally yoked” before leaving the group. Mike also shares his experience of unintentionally framing the Editor of the Christadelphian magazine for vandalism (whoops) and answers whether or not he saw any unattached beard hair in the Christadelphian Magazine Archives. And of course, he asks the hard hitting questions such as ”...have you got a hat?”. Please join us for yet another fun episode of fellowship among the heathens!  

If you’re interested in coming on the podcast or have comments or questions, you can contact Zinnia at [email protected]

Resources and References:

Praise the Lord Hymn Book

‘Praise the Lord’ Music Audio

The Book of Mormon: 

On Broadway

Watch online

Today we’re learning about the unofficial president of the John Thomas fan club, Robert Roberts. In this episode, we’ll be taking a critical look at whether this famous Christadelphian leader was actually just a follower. I’ll be sharing with you “respectable heathens” stories about Robert Roberts’ childhood, his quirks, and the chance he missed to leave behind the drama of the Christadelphians forever. I hope you’re as surprised as I was to learn the bizarre ways that he honored John Thomas throughout his lifetime, and even in death. I’ll also share a Christadelphian exhortation drinking game, a request for the whereabouts of a lost object, and a story about a legendary exhortation at the Moorestown ecclesia. Please also stay tuned to the end for another “ad” from one of our “sponsors”. 

Resources and References:

“My Days and My Ways” by Robert Roberts, 1894

“Robert Roberts: A Study of the Life and Character” by Islip Collyer

John Thomas His Friends and His Faith by Peter Hemingray, 2003

Gilmore Girls tv series, Season 6 episode 8 “Why did you drop out of Yale?”

“Elpis Israel” by John Thomas 

Fourteenth Edition

Ninth Edition

Goosebumps tv series, “Welcome to Dead House”

Ex-Christadelphians.com, “Who was Robert Roberts?”

“Escaping Twin Flames” Documentary, Netflix

Jonestown

The Christadelphian magazine,formerly The Ambassador of the Coming Age  (Subscription required)

-November 1869, accessible to the public

-July 1871, accessible to the public, July edition starting page 199, quotes can be found page 217 and 219

“The Early History of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in Britain with Historical, Critical, and Social Reminiscences of Persons, Places, and Events” compiled by William Norrie, Vol III

Ancestry.com, Roberts Family Tree

Tidings article mentioning Roberts’ son Edward leaving the Christadelphians

Coraline (book) by Neil Gaiman, 2002 & Coraline Movie adaption 2009

Today we’re chatting with Leah! Leah shares her story of pushing the boundaries of respectable behavior for a Christadelphian woman by saying prayers at the podium, giving exhortations, and pushing the community to support the fair-trade movement. Leah wasn’t about to let gender roles get her down and now she’s living her best life re-enacting Sister Act, voting in elections, and saying farewell to her good enemies in the ecclesia. Leah also shares her one rule that sets her new standard when visiting and evaluating a church. Please also enjoy a special guest appearance by Leah’s cats… meow…

TW: domestic violence, sexual assault

If you’re interested in coming on the podcast or have comments or questions, you can contact Zinnia at [email protected]

References & Resources:

Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs by Johann Hari

I Don’t by Clementine Ford

See What You Made Me Do: Power, Control, and Domestic Violence by Jess Hill

Leah’s choir performance (Facebook)

Ten Steps to Nanette by Hannah Gadsby

Today we're chatting with Keturah about true crime stories from the Christadelphians! History certainly isn't always boring with Zinnia sharing the history of five notorious Christadelphians from around the world. Just in time for spooky season, let's talk about body snatchers, poison, and even murder...

 TW: domestic violence, child abuse, pedophilia, incest, violent murder

Resources and References:

Story One: John Thomas Story References:

John Thomas: His Life and His Work by Robert Roberts

John Thomas: His Friends and His Faith by Peter Hemingray

John Thomas’s article in the Lancet on the Anatomy Bill in May 1829

(Full article received via email after contacting Elsevier)

Articles on the Richards Riot:

-YouTube video on Richard’s Riot & the identity of the young woman 

-Patch.com on the Grave Robbings 

-St Charles History Museum on Richards Riot

-The Resurrectionists

Story Two: Albert Chernov Kidney Stealing Story:

News Article

The report on “Jerry” is not publicly available and was sourced from a member of the Ex-Christadelphian Facebook Group. The full section of the report that was referenced is quoted here:  “Albert Chernov, baptized by [“Jerry” real name redacted], was financially supported by BBFU (CCM) as a recruiter for the Brotherhood. Chernov was arrested in July 2003 on suspicion of rounding up Russian immigrants in Israel and compelling them, with threats and extortion, into undergoing nephrectomies (removal of a kidney). The charges detailed that the organs were sold, by Chernov and his two accomplices, on the black market. [Source: Haaretz.] He was released on bail in Nov 2003 and fled the authorities. [Source: Washington Post. *Not Found in WP Archives* ]”

United Nations definition of organ trafficking

Story Three: Judith Ann Venn Murder:

Article 1 in The Guardian

Article 2 in ABC News

Story Four: “Uncle Murder”/ Roger Hammond:

Phoenix New Times: “Mr. Fix-it is Guilty” March 1 1989

Man convicted in Arkansas in Louisville woman's death Associated Press

Obituary, Roger Hammond

Story Five: Gary Schaefer Murders:

Book: In The Shadow of Death: The Hunt for a Serial Killer by Philip Ginsburg 

Podcast: True Crime New England, Episode 10

Podcast: Thrice Cursed: A True Crime and Paranormal Podcast: Heavens'ta Betsy aka Gary Lee Schaefer

Note: Additional resources on Gary Schaefer are mentioned in the podcasts above

Reformer News Article on Schafer’s Death

Gary Schafer Wikipedia

Rutland Daily Herald Article on the Arrest

Murderpedia for Schafer

Book Mentioned by Keturah:

To Believe In Women: What Lesbians Have Done For America - A History by Lillian Faderman

Today we're chatting with Heather! Let's cozy up by a babbling stream with our favorite transcendental books for this one! 

If you’re interested in coming on the podcast or have comments or questions, you can contact Zinnia at [email protected]

⁠Heather's Blog⁠