The Liminal Space

Leila Kidson is a social systems researcher, facilitator, and designer focused on better integrating grassroots voices into systems design, advocacy and action. As co-founder of social design studio OCTOPI, she blends storytelling, co-creation, strategy, and intersectional feminist praxis to drive radical transformation in civic freedoms, solidarity economics, and social justice. She appreciates sitting around a lunch table with interesting people and free diving in kelp forests.

OCTOPI is a South African-based social design studio that partners with organisations aiming to create positive social impact, particularly in marginalised communities within developing nations. Their approach combines strategic design processes with accessible storytelling to co-create solutions that address complex societal challenges from the ground up.

In this episode we are treated to Leila’s exquisite ability to answer questions succinctly. She weaves with us through intersectional feminism, whiteness and what a more communally driven world could look like. She mentions Rutger Bregman’s book Humankind as an entry point into the idea of human beings being innately good. Together we consider what possibilities become alive when we reorient ourselves towards goodness. All held together by story. 

The music in this episode is composed and arranged by Rashid Epstein Adams / Arkenstone, Gabriel Montgomery and Pursuit.

Ra-eesha Smith is an undergraduate Psychology student with a strong interest in understanding human behaviour and promoting mental well-being. Outside of academics, she is passionate about creating awareness about and addressing social injustices and inequalities. With this aim in mind, she is a youth mobiliser at BottomUp where she assists in facilitating social justice oriented events and workshops. Ra-eesha also uses her social platforms, especially TikTok, to create content that creates awareness on critical social issues, advocating for justice and equality. She is also a freelance photographer and aspiring writer, especially poetry. She enjoys singing, learning languages and exploring new hobbies.

Taahirah Hoosain is a visual artist based in Cape Town, South Africa, specialising in alternative style photography. Taahirah has completed her diploma in Photography at the Cape Peninsula University of Technology, her work explores the intersection of identity, culture, and self-expression as well as challenging conventional beauty standards and the structures that uphold them. Outside of her studies, Taahirah volunteers as a youth mobiliser at BottomUp, facilitating social justice events and workshops aimed at youth development. She also enjoys painting, music/singing, and creative makeup. Through her art and activism, she is committed to empowering marginalised voices and fostering an inclusive community.

This episode explores themes of identity, heritage and revolutionary love. Ra-eesha and Taahirah speak about their experiences living on the cape flats in Cape Town. They grapple with what shapes their identity and how to reclaim it. We also briefly tackle how mental health issues are seen and dealt with in communities made up predominantly by people of colour. And of course we tell some hair stories. We hear a beautiful untitled original poem by the two of them:

“As a child it is only natural to look at the world

And let it surround you

You allow the world roll down your face

You let it sink deeper into your skin

As it consumes your entire being.

Stuck between who i was and who i am yet to be

I walk a journey of uncertainty,

Unaware of the destination,

Or the path’s direction,

I hope that I am not lost.

As you continue to watch the world

filled with destruction and disruption

It feels easier to be compressed into nothing

I don't want to occupy any space, I'm fragile, & I perform stability.

Who am I beyond time?

My values? My goals? My achievements?

A soul, body or mind?

I wander restlessly

as I grapple with my identity.

I look into the world for some form of guidance,

But I am met with an unfair reality.

The world constantly brings me to my knees

It brings everyone and everything to its breaking point.

But that is not the narrative I want.

I'm depleted but not defeated

I'm ready to fight, to love radically

To revolt, to change.

To rewrite-

To make a difference in my own capacity.

To love, To give freely,

To be compassionate, to be the change I want to see.

And while I don’t know where I am headed,

I know what I can do now,

So I continue, despite the confusion,

To serve selflessly."

You can view original photography by Ra-eesha and Taahirah on our substack.

Follow Taahirah’s photography on her instagram page.

The music in this episode is composed and arranged by Rashid Epstein Adams / Arkenstone, and Pursuit.

#yeet

Originally from the Eastern Cape, Bongeka Qhanga moved to Khayelitsha, Cape Town as a child. She trained at the Shala Cape Town School of yoga and obtained her RYT200 in Yoga teaching in 2021 and is currently obtaining her RYT300 yoga teaching certificate. She is a part-time Yoga instructor at the Bridges for Music in Langa. Recently she partnered with Ikeja Wireless to bring yoga to the most vulnerable children in the townships and Cape Flats. This initiative is called #yogafridays which aims to provide a safe space for children to learn mindfulness-based tools. Bongeka also has a small business called Ubukho Institute, which is the umbrella organisation for her offerings. She obtained a diploma in Music Performance at UCT in 2014. 

Born Aphiwe Menziwa, Qhama Musiq is a multi-talented artist from Khayelitsha, Cape Town, who has made a name for himself as a singer, songwriter, actor, and more. With a passion for creative expression and community development, Qhama Musiq is a true polymath, using his talents to inspire and uplift those around him. As a performer, Qhama Musiq has captivated audiences across South Africa with his dynamic stage presence. He has acted in notable productions like "King Kong: The Musical" and "Passage," showcasing his impressive acting range. His music is a melodic narrative, blending genres and narratives that mirror the cultural richness of his roots.

Bongeka and Aphiwe founded the Khayelitsha based NPO Thembisa Ratanga. Thembisa Ratanga is situated in the informal settlements of TR section. The organisation offers “a safe space in a not-so-safe place” for kids and neighbours from the neighbourhood. Using education, art and sport as tools for community development and self-empowerment. Their current space of operation has been dubbed “a Waterfront in the township” where they host a variety of programmatic activities including yoga for kids, live music and poetry sessions.

We recorded this Episode with Bongeka and Aphiwe at Thembisa Ratanga. It is at once hope-filled, a time to breathe and a timely reminder to be comfortable within ourselves in a troubled world. We speak about their spirituality, yoga and what brings them hope. A key theme that continues to flow through our conversations this season is the idea of coming home to ourselves, and this time with a particular focus on coming home to our bodies. This is not in juxtaposition to our question of the season about changing systems but rather part and parcel of answering that question.

Follow Bongeka’s work via the Ubukho Institute Instagram page

Follow Aphiwe, or Qhama Musiq on his Instagram page

Follow Thembisa Ratanga via their social pages: Facebook, Instagram. They are currently fundraising towards expanding the dream and operations of Thembisa Ratanga. If you are able, please consider contributing towards the rehumanising work they are doing beautiful by donating via Backabuddy or PayPal.

The music in this episode is composed and arranged by Rashid Epstein Adams / Arkenstone, and Qhama Musiq.

Ncedisa is an Africa-centered Systems Change and Field Learning Partner . That is to say she teaches systems change , she helps organisations apply systems change to their strategies and she partners with any collectives that are committed to discovering organisational wellbeing.   She was the inaugural Director of Bertha House,  where she founded 2s and 4s: a video music series that draws on African musical production to foster post-activism in SA’s social justice sector. In her spare time she rollerblades, cycles and plays music. Always guided by Dr Toni Morrison’s words: “The function of freedom is to free someone else.”, Ncedisa holds an abiding curiosity and faith in the power of narratives as stewards of possibility.

In this episode, Ncedisa excellently guides us through systems thinking and how story and narrative are interwoven in the work of systems change. She quotes songs as easily as she explains complexity. We speak about Sinead O'Connor, Lauryn Hill and Tori Amos. We also consider experiencing joy and the humanising nature of it and its indispensableness. Ncedisa embodies this joy in her laughter, our conversation weaves and meanders and we laugh together a lot. We recorded this on a sweltering day in Cape Town, and still the conversation has a sense of ease and restfulness.

The Tori Amos song Ncedisa references is called “Girl” and the chorus has the lyrics she quotes:

“She's been everybody else's girl, Maybe one day she'll be her own”

The substack Tristan mentions in the podcast is by Joel Ramirez and the poem is included in the post titled Risking Delight. 

The music in this episode is composed and arranged by Rashid Epstein Adams / Arkenstone, and Pursuit.

This episode contains descriptions of gratuitous violence. Listener discretion is advised.

Nicole Joshua is a wife to one husband and a mother to one child. She is a theologian, a home executive, and is currently on a journey of discernment towards ordination in the Christian tradition. She has a deep thirst for learning, evidenced by her formal studies in accounting, theology, particularly Biblical studies, and her voracious appetite for reading, and loves sharing what she is learning with others. Nicole is also a teacher at heart, having taught biblical studies at Cornerstone Institute, through involvement in Christian education in the faith communities where she had worshipped, and is currently enjoying many opportunities to preach in her church. Nicole has a passion for teaching about the Bible. Through her appreciation for the complexity and beauty of biblical texts, she aims to invite others to gain new and sometimes deeply challenging insights into their understanding of the God revealed in the biblical text. She believes that the text of Scripture not only carries the capacity to transform individual lives, but also has the capacity to call the faith community to creatively live out their faith in the world in ways that bring about social transformation. She hopes to inspire followers of Jesus towards joining God in God's work of bringing shalom into the world.

In this episode, Nicole introduces us to the idea of Deep Hope. She defines it as a hard won Hope which grabs you and does not let go, and which exists on the borderline of beauty and destruction, reminding us that death does not have the final say. Her experience on a visit to Rwanda greatly informs this belief. She recalls a moment where she experienced this Hope - a gap in reality - on a trip to Rwanda, during which she visited The Nyamata Church Genocide Memorial which is a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Nicole and Rashid are both avid fantasy fans and geek out on Lord of the Rings and similar epic fantasy stories. We consider whether we can learn from fantasy realms to shape our reality. In a world where imagination is limited, we enquire if it is possible to remain in our bodies while we ‘escape’ in these stories of hard fought resistance and triumph against oppressive powers, all the while discovering new possibilities for our own world.

Lastly, Nicole introduces us to the Sacred Feminine, a concept we frame as a necessary reimagination of God which can lead us to new, rehumanising considerations of the Divine.

The music in this episode is composed and arranged by Rashid Epstein Adams, Arkenstone, Pursuit and Howard Shore. It includes an instrumental of Pursuit’s song “Trinity”, and a piano rendition of Howard Shore’s “Concerning Hobbits” performed by Rashid Epstein Adams. All rights reserved to the original composers.

The quote Tristan shares is from an abstract of a paper titled “Gaza writes back: Narrating Palestine” by Refaat R. Alareer.

“In Palestine, stories are sacred. In trying times, we turn to story-telling for solace. Mothers and grandmothers are the major source of stories in the families. And just when you are old enough, you realise that you have been shaped by these stories and that they go far beyond entertainment. As a Palestinian, I have been brought up on stories, and I learned early in my life that it's both selfish and treacherous to keep a story to myself. If I allowed a story to stop, I would be betraying my legacy, my mother, my grandmother, and my homeland. “

Alareer was a Palestinian writer, poet, professor, and activist from  Gaza. He was killed in an Israeli Airstrike on 6 December 2023 [Source Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refaat_Alareer].

This episode marks the start of a new season on the Liminal Space Podcast. This time we are starting the season with a framing question as a theme; Can stories change systems? Tristan and Rashid explore this, and other questions, through conversation, anecdote, wondering regarding the power of storytelling to shape culture, values, and possibilities.

We consider how the stories we tell—and those we privilege—frame our understanding of the world and define the norms we conform to. Together, we grapple with the implications of this: what happens when certain narratives dominate? And where might there be gaps in reality where imagination can creep in to challenge these narratives and inspire systemic transformation?

The music in this episode is composed and arranged by Rashid Epstein Adams / Arkenstone. It also features two original poems. The poem at the start was written by Rashid and is read by both Rashid and Tristan:

New Stories Towards a New World

Our world is in desperate need of new stories

But where do we find them?

How can we hear them?

And in what ways can we learn from them, and allow them to shape our world towards something altogether more beautiful?

Perhaps the stories we need have always been here

Resiliently present

Echoing in the mountains and which  ground

Flowing in the sweet rivers which give life

Maybe there are stories which are found in the land,

And we need to explore new ways of knowing and being in order to hear them

Our world is in desperate need of new stories

Stories of hope which demand justice in the face of ongoing, global systems of oppression 

We need new narratives which can help us imagine and dream 

Stories towards the uprooting of a dehumanising world order

And the planting of new Ways

Perhaps the stories we are seeking are not new ones,

But have been carried by our ancestors from generation to generation

Maybe they exist in the lived experiences of our grandmothers and sons, 

All of those humans walking in a world not made for them

Yet always pursuing better paths for them and their neighbours

Come to think of it

Perhaps our world doesn’t need actually need new stories,

Or at least that is not where the story should end…

Perhaps what we need is a new world!

And stories are part of its making!

The poem at the end of the episode was written and read by Tristan:

How do you change a world?

How do you change a world?

By changing a story? By starting the story? By telling a new story?

Stories shift the world, they move us through progress. Carry us beyond setbacks.

Stories are poems of belief systems.

If we can’t get our stories straight villains will be indistinguishable from heroes. Evil may look like good. Or even worse we will get stuck in the binary of heroes and villains. Everyone one or the other incapable of being both. 

Such is the power of a story that it can motivate us to work together for something larger than us or prefer radical individualism with the self at the centre of the world. 

Stories can shift us from complacency to action. They are places of refuge and safety but at best they are places of courage and vulnerability.

There are stories about why the world has to stay the same and stories about why the world must change.

Someone once said you can't kill an idea, with a bullet. Stories make ideas come alive. They are the carrier medium. an idea can change a life, a community, a world.

Shifting a narrative is the work the world needs. This world hell bound on imploding under the sheer weight of our existential dread.

We need to hear new stories about new worlds so that we can become that. And that doesn’t mean more stories of empire or colonising distant planets. It is not about stories of the hereafter or make belief. It is fantastical, hopeful and not wishful. It is stories about this very earth, your very body. 

New stories about what becomes possible if we allow our wildest imagination to meet our grounded selves, in a collective moment of liberation for all.

In this special bonus episode, we reflect on the journey of our inaugural season. As we revisit the precious conversations and themes we've explored, we share our personal insights, growth, and learnings which emerged over the past few months. This episode is a moment of introspection and reflection where we connect the dots between our experiences and the stories and wisdom of our incredible guests. 

From the rehumanising power of music, to reflections on identity, justice, and belonging, we discuss how the stories we heard throughout season 1 of the podcast have revealed gaps in reality that can inspire us towards better ways of knowing and being. We reflect on the value of staying in the liminal space and embracing the unknown, suggesting that spaces of inbetween can be realised as pathways towards something new. We consider how imagination and critical hope are helpful guides in this moment, as we seek and pursue new possibilities and new realities.

This wrap-up episode is not necessarily intended as a conclusion, but rather an invitation to pause, breathe, and reflect on the journey so far. Join us as we close out the season with gratitude, hope, a few laughs, and a renewed commitment to continue listening to, and learning from, rehumanising narratives and stories — as we continue seeking glimpses towards a better city and world.

The music in Episode 7 is composed and arranged by Arkenstone (Rashid Epstein Adams) and Pursuit.

Charlton Alexander is a son of Cape Town. He loves his wife Lauren and his son Reth, and the rest of the world in its beautiful brokenness. He is a Tour Guide/Facilitator looking to move through the (liminal) spaces that tell us the stories of the people and the land. He invites guests to the city to connect with the people and land in experiences that are life altering. ‘Charlie’, as he is fondly known, has a deep desire to see local churches sing more local (contextual) music, rather than importing music from the globe. He encourages this through dialogue, praxis and contextual Bible studies.

Barry Lewis is the director of UBU (Ubuhle Bakha Ubuhle / Beauty Builds Beauty), a company specifically focussed on developing the technology of Sandbag Housing in low income communities in South Africa. Formally an architect from the UK Barry arrived in Cape Town in 2009 and worked for The Warehouse Trust (NGO) before founding UBU in 2012, specifically working in an informal community called Sweet Home Farm in Philippi. UBU played the role of facilitator in the City of Cape Town’s UISP (Upgrade of Informal Settlements Program) project in the community, whilst developing the idea of the Process House, an incremental model of housing utilising Sandbags and EcoBeams all built by members of the community over a 2.5 year period. UBU’s mission is to activate and equip humans to self-build places of belonging, in both formal and informal contexts.

In this episode we speak about home, belonging, assimilation and Barry introduces us to a framework to ask different questions. We consider the idea that the questions we ask profoundly shape the solutions we get. We ask questions about Cape Town and the maintenance of the legacy of Colonisation and Apartheid. We also laugh a lot and learn about a beautiful friendship, or kinship, between two people finding their way in the world.

Charlie and Barry both speak about a Thursday night community dinner. This is hosted by an NPO called New Hope SA. New Hope relies on donations to host its Thursday night dinner, it is a great organisation to support.

Near the end of the episode Charlie names Sesihle Manzini and Jonathan Jansen as people doing work on the ground. Sesihle, through the vehicle of Anno Domini, focuses on storytelling and contextualising the South African situation. She recently released a documentary called A Piece of Ground which focuses on issues of spatial segregation in Cape Town. Jonathan is a community worker based in Manenberg doing important work caring for his community.

The music in Episode 5 is composed and arranged by Arkenstone (Rashid Epstein Adams), Pursuit and Common Hymnal, including a kalimba-centered reimagination of the latter group’s song “The Kingdom Is Yours”.

Nadia Agherdine is an active citizen deeply involved in the preservation of cultural heritage and the promotion of immersive travel experiences. She is a Tour Operator and qualified tour guide and serves as the Vice Chairperson of the Salt River Heritage Society. Through her role, Nadia passionately works to safeguard the cultural and historical legacy of Salt River, engaging both locals and visitors in the rich traditions and stories of the area. Her dedication to cultural preservation and education ensures that the heritage of Salt River is not only protected but also celebrated and shared with a wider audience.

Waseela Everson is the Secretary General of the Salt River Heritage Society. She is a teacher (retired) and started her teaching career on the Cape Flats. Her career led her to teach at the National University of Lesotho International School. It concluded being H.O.D at the International School of South Africa and House Parent of the Junior Hostel. She grounds herself in community and advocates for social justice. She values kindness above most things and has genuine care and consideration for everyone around her. A sense of humour and tenacious spirit see her through most challenges.

The themes we explore in this episode include heritage and identity and why it is important to reflect on. Nadia and Waseela tell us about the Salt River Heritage Society. We talk about green spaces in urban areas and public art. In our conversation we consider the complex nature of our own heritages as people of Colour and Coloured people. Waseela introduces us to the term Camissa African and we explore how the term “Coloured” is sometimes used, sometimes rejected and more recently being reinterpreted in South Africa.

The gardening NPO Nadia speaks about is Neighborhood Gardens. The Salt River Heritage Society has a Facebook page to keep up with their latest work. 

Rashid references a newspaper article titled Twang Yusuf and written by Fu’ad Rahman. It appeared in the publication Africa Muslim Voice.

The music in Episode 5 is composed and arranged by Arkenstone (Rashid Epstein Adams) and Pursuit. The songs include "iKhaya Lethu", "Margins", "Camissa (Sweet Waters)", and "Kai !Garib (Great River)".

Thami is a singer-songwriter and musician, passionate about the transformative essence of musical alchemy. Her current artistic expression is rooted in creating immersive soundscapes that in some ways transcend traditional boundaries, with the potential to offer a narrative journey. She hopes to create auditory spaces that encourage restful resistance through self-reflection, while provoking forms of healing.

Zach is an artist and local food co-op host. Right now he cares about exorcism - be it queer hatred in the church, imperial imagination from the walls of the suburbs, or of the shame we hold in our bodies. Zach believes wholeheartedly in gathering together over a delicious meal.

The themes we explore in this episode relate to finding healing and belonging in a disembodied world as we find healing and belonging in our bodies. The episode includes original music by Thami and original poetry by Tristan. It is  meant to be a moment to breathe in a turbulent and troubling world.

The Poem Tristan reads is an original piece by him called Breathe. The song at the end of the episode is an original song by Thami and is currently untitled. 

You can find more of Thami’s work on Youtube and Instagram. You can find more of Zach’s work on Instagram.

The music in Episode 4 is composed and arranged by Thami James and Arkenstone (Rashid Epstein Adams).