The Liquid Network Podcast

What does it take to get property managers, villages and supermarkets to switch from salt to an organic liquid de-icer? For Bishan Chow, it started with drinking the product in front of the people he was selling to.

On this episode of The Liquid Network Podcast, Antonio Vaccari of Eco Solutions sits down with Bishan Chow, founder and CEO of Roadpass Products in Pelham, New York. Bishan started out designing bolt-on systems for the transportation industry. A five-gallon sample of Eco Solutions' sugar beet de-icer turned him into one of the fastest-growing liquid de-icing distributors in the New York area.

In this episode:

• How one test building turned into 68 buildings with a single property management company
• Why Bishan drinks the de-icer in front of village trustees, and what it does to close deals
• The Co-op City test where the ice cracked and dissolved within minutes
• Why 22 lb organic bags outsold 50 lb calcium bags at a New York supermarket
• New York's push to ban calcium and magnesium de-icers in Westchester County
• One client's $30–40K in salt truck repairs vs. $250 on his liquid truck in four years
• The one objection every distributor hears (the brown colour) and how to answer it
• What's next, from the Port Authority to interest from the UK and Ukraine

Learn more about Eco Solutions and The Liquid Network: https://eco-solutions.net/

#DeIcing #SnowRemoval #WinterMaintenance #LiquidDeIcer #SnowAndIce #PropertyManagement #SaltReduction

Scott Iles has spent almost 20 years in Humber College's grounds maintenance department, and for the last four he's been running one of the larger liquid and treated salt programs on the Liquid Network. What started as a way to escape back-breaking bag salt (three to five tons moved by hand, per storm) has grown into a dialed-in system: treated salt on walkways, liquid brine in the parking garage and on interlock, and roughly 6,000 gallons of on-site liquid storage. Antonio and Scott dig into the real learning curve, the smell problem nobody warns you about, why liquid holds up in freezing rain, and what Scott would tell anyone still on the fence.

What You'll Learn

• Why Humber moved off bag salt after years of manually loading three to five tons of material per storm
• How Humber split the work: treated salt on walkways and stairs, liquid brine in the parking garage and on interlock
• The smell and tracking issue that hit hard in year one, and the simple fix (pulling spray back 10-15 feet from doorways)
• Why equipment and filter maintenance matters more than people expect, especially after summer storage
• Why liquid performs surprisingly well in freezing rain, and where pure liquid still can't fully replace granular
• How Humber got through last year's salt shortage by leaning harder on brine
• What moving to 6,000 gallons of bulk storage changed about their day-to-day operation

Timestamps

• 0:00 — Welcome and guest intro
• 0:53 — About Humber and Scott's 20 years in grounds maintenance
• 1:40 — Humber's two campuses, and the North Campus Scott manages
• 2:05 — How it started: back-breaking bag salt and a trade show connection
• 4:58 — Dialing it in: the pre-storm playbook Humber runs today
• 5:52 — Where treated salt goes versus where liquid brine goes
• 7:59 — Getting the contractor side moving toward liquid too
• 9:40 — The sugar beet blend, and the pressure of sitting next to the Humber River
• 11:28 — The smell problem nobody warns you about
• 15:34 — Why liquid holds up better than granular in freezing rain
• 16:25 — The one thing pure liquid still can't do in the Great Lakes region
• 18:42 — Getting through last year's salt shortage
• 20:30 — Six thousand gallons: what bulk storage changed
• 23:15 — What Scott would tell someone about to make this decision

Guest Bio

Scott Iles is superintendent at Humber College's North Campus, the larger of Humber's two campuses, where he has worked in the grounds maintenance department for almost 20 years. Humber's grounds maintenance program dates back to the college's founding in 1967. About four years ago, after a colleague connected with Eco Solutions at a trade show, Humber moved away from bag salt toward a treated salt and liquid brine program. Today Humber runs roughly 6,000 gallons of on-site liquid storage and applies both treated salt and liquid brine across its walkways, parking garage, and interlock areas.

Links

• Learn more about the Liquid Network: theliquidnetwork.ca

Ryan Quigley wears two hats in Ontario's snow industry. He and his wife started their own landscaping business in 2008, joined The Gardener franchise in 2014, and added liquid de-icing to their operation in 2018, building their own brine maker from scratch. A few years later, after struggling to find good liquid suppliers near Peterborough, he started Storm Solutions Plus, now the exclusive Canadian dealer for VSI by Boss liquid de-icing equipment. In this episode, Antonio and Ryan talk through what it actually takes to build a liquid program from nothing: buying versus making your own brine, why The Gardener now runs 70-75% liquid, the generational shift in why contractors are making the switch, and what Ryan would tell someone starting today.

What You'll Learn

• How a landscaping business that started in 2008 grew into a liquid de-icing operation running 70-75% liquid, with a goal of 80%
• The real tradeoffs between buying brine from a known supplier versus building and running your own brine maker
• What VSI by Boss equipment and Metal Pless plow blades bring to a liquid program
• Why Ryan sees salt shortages and pricing pressure building again heading into this season
• The generational divide Ryan's noticed in why contractors are moving to liquid: financial pressure and shortages for longer-tenured operators, ROI and environmental concerns for the newer generation
• Why building your own DIY sprayer setup can get you started, but has a ceiling
• What Ryan would tell a contractor considering liquid for the first time

Timestamps

• 0:00 — Welcome and guest intro (Ryan's dual role: contractor and supplier)
• 1:09 — Ryan's path: from automotive to snow contracting, joining The Gardener in 2014
• 2:12 — Why he started Storm Solutions Plus
• 4:22 — Buying brine versus making your own
• 5:34 — The real key to a smooth start in liquids
• 6:46 — Inside VSI by Boss and what Storm Solutions Plus supplies
• 7:47 — Salt shortages and rising demand for liquid this season
• 9:28 — The Gardener's liquid mix: 70-75% and climbing
• 10:39 — Anti-icing, de-icing, and where granular still fits
• 11:27 — The hybrid approach: adding liquid without ditching your salt spreader
• 14:54 — What's really driving contractors to liquid
• 17:29 — Liquid vs. granular: application time compared
• 19:10 — Ryan's own DIY brine-making origin story
• 20:40 — What Ryan would tell a contractor starting today
• 21:27 — Why Antonio built the Liquid Network

Guest Bio

Ryan Quigley wears two hats in Ontario's snow and ice industry. He and his wife started their own landscaping business in 2008 (Ryan joined full-time in 2009), and joined The Gardener franchise in March 2014, growing into commercial snow and ice work the same year. The Gardener added liquid de-icing to its arsenal in 2018 and now serves a mix of residential, commercial, and office properties, including a local hospital, out of the Peterborough area. A few years ago, after finding it hard to source good liquid products and support locally, Ryan started Storm Solutions Plus, now the exclusive Canadian dealer for VSI by Boss liquid de-icing equipment and a dealer for Metal Pless plow blades.

Links

• Learn more about the Liquid Network: theliquidnetwork.ca

On this episode of the Liquid Network Podcast, Antonio talks with Gerald Mulhall of Clear Cut Group in Mississauga, Ontario. Clear Cut has been in business since 2012 or 2013, running residential and commercial grass cutting, sod, and mulch work in summer, and plowing, salting, and liquids in winter.

Gerald has been running liquids for close to a decade, starting from a simple thousand liter tote and spray bar in the back of a truck with no way to track what was going down, to a fully controlled system today with a GPS controlled boom that adjusts application rate on the fly.

Gerald walks through how Clear Cut uses liquid mostly as a pre-storm, anti-icing measure, the real education gap with longtime salt guys, what happened when a client pushed back on the look and smell of liquid, and his advice for any contractor thinking about getting into it.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

• How Clear Cut's liquid program evolved from a manual hose reel and on/off spray bar to a fully automated, GPS controlled boom system
• Why Gerald treats liquid mostly as a pre-storm preventative measure, spraying ahead of the storm on a clear day instead of scrambling after
• Why crews used to straight salt tend to over-apply after a site's already been pre-sprayed, and why that wastes material
• How to handle a client who pushes back on the color and smell of liquid product
• Why Gerald thinks the salt shortage is making liquid more attractive now than it was a few years ago
• His advice for any contractor getting started: begin with walkways, and don't move to parking lots until you can actually track and measure what you're applying
• What's next for Clear Cut's winter program this year

TIMESTAMPS

00:01 Intro and welcome to Gerald Mulhall, Clear Cut Group

00:49 Gerald's earliest liquid setup: a tote, a spray bar, and no tracking

01:31 About Clear Cut Group: history, services, customer base

02:47 The origin story: a private school client's walkways started it all

04:28 The biggest driver for getting into, and staying in, liquids

06:13 What a storm event actually looks like for Clear Cut today

07:37 The hybrid method: pre-spray, then less granular on the back end

08:24 The education gap with longtime salt crews

09:39 Billing liquid as a value-add vs. a paid service

11:35 When a client pushes back on the color and smell of liquid

13:07 Gerald's advice to a contractor just getting started: walkways first

15:40 Salt shortages, pricing, and why liquid is more attractive now

18:54 What's next for Clear Cut's winter program this year

20:10 Final thoughts: it's an education process, give it time

GUEST BIO

Gerald Mulhall runs Clear Cut Group, a residential and commercial maintenance company based in Mississauga, Ontario, in business since 2012 or 2013. Clear Cut handles summer softscape work (grass cutting, sod, and mulch installation) and winter plowing, salting, and liquid application, with liquids used primarily on the commercial side of the business.

LINKS

The Liquid Network: theliquidnetwork.ca

Clear Cut Group: https://clearcutgroup.ca/

On this episode of the Liquid Network Podcast, Antonio sits down with Jay Price, co-owner of Rembrandt Landscaping in Milton, Ontario. Rembrandt has been a family run maintenance business since 1985, and Jay and his mother have run it together for the past twenty years.

Jay walks through how a salt shortage six or seven years ago pushed him to start researching liquid de-icing, what it looked like to jump in with both feet and run into early setbacks, and how Rembrandt is now building a real hybrid program that pre-sprays before storms and finishes with rock salt.

He also breaks down the real cost comparison between salt and liquid equipment, what he wishes he'd believed sooner, and where Rembrandt is headed this winter.

What You'll Learn

• How a salt shortage six or seven years ago sent Jay to a SIMA trade show in Cleveland to start researching liquid de-icing
• Why Rembrandt's first attempt at going all in on liquid didn't stick, and what changed the second time around
• How client reactions shift from confusion (why is there brown liquid on my parking lot) to full buy-in once they see it work
• The real cost comparison between loading a salt truck and running a liquid sprayer, including what corrosion and repairs actually cost each side
• Why Jay calls patience the biggest lesson of the whole process
• What a realistic hybrid program (pre-spray plus post-treatment salt) looks like day to day
• How this year's salt price swing (roughly $85 a ton to $125 to $150 a ton) is shaping Rembrandt's planning for winter

00:00 Intro and welcome to Jay Price, Rembrandt Landscaping 00:52 About Rembrandt: family owned since 1985, maintenance focused

01:37 What sparked Rembrandt's move into liquids: the salt shortage

02:45 Rembrandt's liquids journey from day one to today

04:05 Are clients asking about environmental impact yet

04:48 How client buy-in has grown over time

06:25 Pre-spray versus post-treatment: building a hybrid program

08:12 The real cost comparison: loading salt versus running a sprayer

09:38 Jay's advice to a contractor just getting into liquids: be patient

11:12 Addressing the "snake oil" skeptics 12:12 What's next for Rembrandt's winter program

13:50 Salt shortages, pricing, and whether this is the new normal

15:53 Final thoughts: liquids as an industry wide responsibility

16:25 The Liquid Network and Eco Solutions' fill stations

Jay Price is co-owner of Rembrandt Landscaping, a family run commercial and industrial maintenance company based in Milton, Ontario, in business since 1985. Jay and his mother have run the business together for the past twenty years. Rembrandt handles summer and winter maintenance for commercial and industrial clients, with some summer construction work as well.

Links The Liquid Network: theliquidnetwork.ca

Rembrandt Landscaping: rembrandtlandscaping.ca

This is the first episode of the Liquid Network Podcast. Antonio Vacciari, who has spent decades helping contractors and municipalities move from rock salt to liquid deicing programs, sits down with Dan Schissler of ConSalt to talk about how they each found their way into this industry, and why they built the Liquid Network.

Dan studied environmental science and computer science at the University of Waterloo, then spent three years at Environment Canada researching how road salt affects freshwater ecosystems, years before he ever sprayed liquid deicer himself. Antonio discovered liquid deicing in the Pacific Northwest almost 25 years ago and brought the idea back to Canada. Together they trace that evolution and explain why they built the Liquid Network: a hub for the equipment, product, consulting, and education contractors need to get started with liquids.

What You'll Learn

• Dan's path from aquatic toxicology research at Environment Canada into the snow and ice industry
• Dan's first time spraying liquid deicer, and the honest mistake that came with it
• Antonio's origin story, from a family landscape company to liquid deicing almost 25 years ago
• Why the first ten years of Eco Solutions were an uphill battle, and how salt management plans changed that
• What ConSalt does for contractors: tech enablement, software development, and process automation
• What the Liquid Network is, and lessons from the first eco-filling station at Eco Solutions

In This Episode

00:00 - Welcome and introducing Dan Schissler

01:00 - Dan's background at Waterloo and Environment Canada

02:40 - The leap from science to snow and ice

04:45 - Dan's first liquid deicer spraying story

06:40 - Antonio's origin story

10:40 - How the industry reacted, and what changed minds

12:25 - What ConSalt does today

18:00 - What the Liquid Network is and the problem it solves

21:15 - A walkthrough of theliquidnetwork.ca

23:20 - The first eco-filling station: what worked and what they'd fix

26:55 - Where the Liquid Network goes from here

29:25 - Advice for contractors thinking about getting started with liquids

About the Guest

Dan Schissler is the founder of ConSalt, working with contractors and companies across the snow and ice, construction, manufacturing, and supply chain industries on tech enablement, software development, and process automation. He spent time at Environment Canada researching road salt's effects on freshwater ecosystems, and has partnered closely with Eco Solutions for almost four years.

Links and Resources

• The Liquid Network: theliquidnetwork.ca
• Eco Solutions: https://ecosolutionsproducts.ca/
• ConSalt: https://www.consalt.ca/

About the Liquid Network Podcast

The Liquid Network Podcast is hosted by Antonio Vacciari of Eco Solutions. Each episode is a real conversation with the people actually doing the work of winter maintenance, talking about what's working, what isn't, and where this industry is headed. No fluff, just real conversations.